Aborig. Land with Reserve Number 99999

Submitted: Sunday, Mar 30, 2014 at 18:24
ThreadID: 106986 Views:2050 Replies:4 FollowUps:13
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Hi All

We have obtained several permits to travel on Aborig. Land in WA from www.daa.gov.au. Some of them (Kidson Track, Balgo Road and Connie Sue HWY) give us permission to travel on the reserve numbered 99999. I called the permit officer whose phone number was on the permit but so far obtained no answer what the reserve number 99999 means.
The e-mail address given for the WEB site was invalid.
Does anyone has a clue.

Thanks
Andy
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Reply By: Mick O - Sunday, Mar 30, 2014 at 18:34

Sunday, Mar 30, 2014 at 18:34
Try this site first. You've left the jurisdiction denominator out of the address.

http://www.daa.wa.gov.au/

Appears that the DIA have changed their name to DAA since I last looked.

Joan Groves is probably the lady to speak with if it is a DAA permit you have been issued.

Cheers Mick.
''We knew from the experience of well-known travelers that the
trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
Richard Maurice - 1903

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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Sunday, Mar 30, 2014 at 21:57

Sunday, Mar 30, 2014 at 21:57
So they have Mick :O. I had not noticed. At least the old link goes straight to the new named site. Government departments are the worst for changing their name every year and not having any diverts in place at change over.

"The Department of Aboriginal Affairs (formerly Indigenous Affairs) has been renamed to more accurately reflect the identity of Aboriginal people in Western Australia. This change is in line with requests from the State's Aboriginal community."

There used to be a Native Welfare department; not politically correct, so we had to use the term Aboriginal. That was not politically correct at some stage, so we had to say Indigenous (I stayed with using Aboriginal). So now they have back peddled. Guess what? They all mean Native to the land - not specifically Australia.

Motherhen
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Reply By: equinox - Sunday, Mar 30, 2014 at 18:42

Sunday, Mar 30, 2014 at 18:42
Sounds like a default code where a written description of the proposed route/track may be given instead of an actual reserve number.


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Reply By: andy - Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 01:39

Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 01:39
Thanks for your comments.

@Mick
www.daa.gov.au leads automatically tohttp://www.daa.wa.gov.au/.

I talked to Joan on the phone. She could veryfy the permits but could not find that reserve number in her book. She had never had heard of it before.

@Equinox
That was my first thought. Probably I am worrying too much about being checked on the track without being able to provide the correct reserve number.


Andy
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Follow Up By: Member - Fab72 (Paradise SA) - Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 18:52

Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 18:52
Andy,
I wouldn't worry too much. You've paid and got your permits, youve done everything possible. The only other thing is make a record of the time, date and person you spoke to at the DAA.
If they don't know the answer, there's a good chance the field officer won't either.
Given the efforts you've been through, you'd have a good case to travel on your merry way.

my 2 cents worth.

Fab.
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Reply By: Member - Sanantone - Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 08:02

Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 08:02
Just on permits in general, can anyone advise where the permit fees go & who or what they benefit. I can understand the need for permits (to let people know you are there) and even fine you, if you do not have one, but to pay for the privilege just feels wrong.

Tony
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Follow Up By: Kris and Kev - Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 08:23

Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 08:23
From books I have read the permits started when the governments wanted to limit non aboriginal contact with aboriginals. Back then they were concerned that such contact would change the aboriginal way of life. Well we know how effective that was. Wait until you go to Kalumburu and have to pay $50 for your permit! Kevin
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Follow Up By: Echucan Bob - Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 09:28

Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 09:28
Tony,

I just did permits for the NT (not Mereenie Loop) and WA (not CSR). No fees. Are you sure you aren't applying through a Nigerian website?

Bob
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Follow Up By: Kris and Kev - Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 10:26

Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 10:26
Oh you have to pay. I think the Mereenie Loop cost us $5 back in 2012. And at Kalumburu you have to place the label on your windscreen after you pay the $50. We did the Great Central last year and both permits were free and easy to get. Kevin
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Follow Up By: Mick O - Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 13:49

Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 13:49
Permits fall into various categories and are administered by various bodies, some run by Government and some run by aboriginal corporations or the communities themselves.

The majority of permits are FREE and freely issued. All permits issued through the DAA and CLC are free and largely instantaneous. Those that are out of the ordinary may take a little longer as they may involve community consultation.

In some areas, Local aboriginal corporations may charge you an entry/access fee. This is generally contributed towards improving the amenity of the area or encouraging programs within the local community. Not much different than paying $6 per night to camp in a National Park.

On the Canning you don't actually need a permit to travel the stock route PROVIDING you don't stray more than a few hundred metres from the route. The Permit issued by the NFWDCA provides access to all those side areas such as Durba. The money is used to improve areas along the route, provide signage, Ranger training and promote opportunity within the indigenous communities through whose land the track passes.

Look at it this way. Most land in the east coast is privately or government owned. If it’s National or State park, you pay for the privilege of wandering around or camping there. You do not have an implied right of entry to farmland or private property either. If you were a farmer with a fantastic bush block that overlooked a nice piece of coastline, would it be wrong for you to swing open the gate and charge passing punters $15 for the privilege of camping on your land? Same diff. You need to remember that the Traditional Owners of the land have been provided with custodianship of the lands in which they live. In most cases you are provided with entry free or for a nominal fee.

People can moan all you like about where the $5.00 you’ve paid goes but does it matter? Entry is not a right, it’s a privilege and given at the discretion of the land owners, same as your back yard. The monies are accountable all you need to due is identify the particular group or council and access their annual reports on line. The corporation and community websites will generally outline the programs and initiatives that the funding supports.

Far too often people confuse the issue of permits with the emotive raft of social ills that plague the communities or the money provided to any number of support services by governments. This comparison should be avoided. Permits and access fees are simply a question about what rights the owners of the land have, be they T/O’s or a Gippsland farmer.


Cheers Mick


''We knew from the experience of well-known travelers that the
trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
Richard Maurice - 1903

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Follow Up By: The Landy - Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 14:47

Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 14:47
And might I “second” Mick’s comments by saying that we recently obtained a raft of permits to cover travel on the Anne Beadell and Sandy Blight Junction track, the process was simple and very straight forward. And the only outlay I had was around $20.00.

In contrast the fuel on this trip alone will cost in excess of $3,000.

All contact I have had as been very professional, and above all else, very helpful.

In many ways, I feel it would be wrong to not be paying something…

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Kris and Kev - Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 17:25

Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 17:25
I get the points made and don’t wish to get into an argument, but it is different. (And you must admit, $50 for a permit is a bit rich.) I can drive through a National Park without the need for a permit (I know in some states this is not the case, but that is another matter.), I can drive through private property again without a permit. In fact there are a lot of roads that cut through private property. Lots where you have to open and close the gates, but you are free to travel. Camping is a different matter. I have paid on numerous occasions to camp on aboriginal land and am very happy to, not a problem. Certain communities will not let you drive through. Why not? I cannot put a sign up in my street telling everyone that they cannot enter. But each to their own opinion. At least we can drive around this fantastic country. And it is good to have different opinions. Kevin
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Follow Up By: Member - Fab72 (Paradise SA) - Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 18:54

Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 18:54
Simpson Desert...$120.
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 19:20

Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 19:20
Spot on Mick, a perfect summation!

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Follow Up By: disco driver - Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 20:24

Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 20:24
A comment on Kris & Kev's last reply re driving through private property.
The Road and the reserve on which it is built IS Not private property.
In some areas, mainly rural/pastoral, property owners do not have to fence between the road reserve and their property but can have gates across the public roads as you have described. The road remains public property and is open to all travellers with a request that the gates are left as they are found (as per the usual in rural areas.)

Disco.
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Follow Up By: KevinE - Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 20:27

Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 20:27
Mick, that has to be the best post I've ever read on here! :)
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 23:58

Monday, Mar 31, 2014 at 23:58
Agree, an excellent post Mick.

Kevin - ever tried getting access onto mining leases?
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