New Motoring Rules for Passing Cyclists start today in Qld

Submitted: Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 13:41
ThreadID: 107136 Views:3029 Replies:19 FollowUps:53
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From 7 April by law motorists in Qld must give:

a minimum of 1 metre when passing cyclists in a 60km/h or less speed zone
at least 1.5 metres where the speed limit is over 60km/h.

Motorists will be allowed to cross centre lines, including double unbroken centre lines, straddle lane-lines or drive on painted islands to pass cyclists provided the driver has a clear view of any approaching traffic AND IT IS SAFE TO DO SO.

The minimum passing distance will be trialled for 2 years and will help make drivers more aware of cyclists.
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Reply By: Steve D1 - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 14:19

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 14:19
Wow. Where to start with what is wrong with that !!!!!!
Too much to list. ( and I'll probably get sin binned )

Steve
AnswerID: 530015

Follow Up By: CSeaJay - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 14:23

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 14:23
Cant agree more, too much to list.
The onus appears to be on the driver, so if the cyclist veers into the 'space' it will be the driver's fault. Or does the driver then disobey the double centre lines and all those other safety aspects even more to maintain distance!!!
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Follow Up By: Member - Rosss - Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 15:02

Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 15:02
Don't need a stupid cycling law in Qld to let people drive over lines, Qld authorities could save thousands on Road marking because nobody takes any notice of white lines anyway.
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 16:33

Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 16:33
nothings wrong with it - its relativly uneforcable but does give a tool to pull all those motarists that play - lets see how close we can get to the cyclist

yes it happens - ALOT wide road little traffick and next thing a car skims past you with the passenger, southerncross tatt holding a can of bundy leaning out the window yelling yahhhh blahhh or throws something out the window at you
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Reply By: Road Warrior - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 14:49

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 14:49
Oh, and for the Sandgropers here, there has been a Bill introduced to Parliament last week to amend the Road Traffic Act (WA) in the same terms.
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Follow Up By: SDG - Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 07:49

Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 07:49
I think NSW introduced it a couple of weeks ago as well.
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Reply By: Dennis Ellery - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 15:15

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 15:15
Not before time too.
There are some pretty arrogant motorists out there, who think they own the road.
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Follow Up By: Steve D1 - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 15:24

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 15:24
I'm one of them Dennis.
Roads are for cars. Parks are for bikes. ( and the billion dollar cycleways we just have to have )

Steve.
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Follow Up By: Member - Sn00py2 (NSW) - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 15:41

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 15:41
Good on you Steve,

What annoys me is the number of push bikes on freeways when there is a dedicated cycleway running right beside the freeway.

I would like to see a registration system put in place for push bikes where they pay an annual fee and have to display a rego number on the back of their bike so that when we see them doing the wrong thing we can report them to the Police.

You only have to watch Courier's in the city to see the dumb and dangerous things that they do.

Sn00py2
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 15:56

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 15:56
Hi Steve
Yes and a very high percentage of your fellow motorists too.

You see it all time whist driving or on the TV - motorists tailgating or squeezing past cyclists and forcing them into the gutter.

Dashboard cameras in cars have shown incidents often on TV. If I was a cyclist today I’d have a camera pointing to the rear to do the same.

Hi Snoopy2
Push bikes are banned from freeways in WA – I would think the same applies in NSW.
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Follow Up By: Steve D1 - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 16:04

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 16:04
"Push bikes are banned from freeways in WA – I would think the same applies in NSW"

You would think wrong. M2, M7, M1, M5 all allow pushies, in 100K zones.
If i was driving @ 80K under the limit, i'd be booked for endangering other users.
I on my MOTOR BIKE am not allowed to use the break down lane, ( or the bus lane ) on the Motorway, as it's seen as too dangerous, Yet it seems it is not dangerous for a pushy, with no indicators, no active brake or head lights.
A few years ago, the M2 had 3 fatalities in 2 weeks. Banned from using soon after. Protest and lobbying from cycling groups, they are back. Who do you thing will be screaming and complaining the loudest when the next one gets cleaned up????

I'll stop now i think. LOL

Steve
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 16:25

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 16:25
Amazing - In WA it’s illegal to ride a moped, bicycle or animal on our freeways.
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Follow Up By: Greg D1 - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 16:30

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 16:30
The only problem with dash cameras in vehicles is that here in Qld bicycles do not show a number plate so catching the cuplrits is almost impossible for the police. TV news tonight should be interesting as Police are enforcimng rules on bikes breaking laws and now have to pay the same fines as cars eg $300 for riding through a red light etc

Greg
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Follow Up By: Steve D1 - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 16:30

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 16:30
Welcome to the land of Councilor Clover. She is an absolute menace.

Steve
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 18:26

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 18:26
On the face of it, I don't think there's much wrong with that but.... you just know certain cyclists will take great pleasure in flexing their new-found latitude. Only last week on my occasional trip into peak hour Sydney there was a cyclist monopolising the left lane in the already too narrow Pac. Hwy. didn't give a rat's. He must've slowed down the 3-lane traffic to a ridiculous degree as motorists continually had tried to switch lanes as they caught up with him. You wouldn't mind being courteous if it was returned instead of them weaving in between lanes esp. at lights and riding 2 and three abreast. A bit like motor cyclists who do the same lane-weaving and forcing their way into other lanes in congested traffic and complain when a car does the same. Then they sit on the blind spot waiting to overtake and wonder why you haven't seen them. It cuts all ways and as per, should be a matter of courtesy and common sense.
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Follow Up By: aboutfivebucks (Pilbara) - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 20:44

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 20:44
Dennis,

Here you go!! Invented in Perth



Fly6 Rear Facing Bike Camera
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:09

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:09
Some seriously hysterical and arrogant comments above. Cyclists behaving badly/ignoring rules has nothing at all to do with their rights to share roads with motorists. If that were the yardstick then most of us should have been banished from the roads decades ago. Motorcyclists regularly ride illegally between lanes of stopped cars. My response? Good luck to them, I give them space.

My daughter cycles in London where the traffic and roads are far worse from many perspectives but she feels safer cycling there than in this country. The difference? London drivers generally show respect and understand that co-operation among all road users is a necessity to ensure traffic flow.

Drive on Australian roads of any sort, motorcycle, cycle, or walk on (foot)paths and you'll meet enough selfish and self-interested idiots to fill a forum a thousand times over.
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:21

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:21
Well said Bazooka – it goes to show that hoon behaviour isn’t just restricted to young bogans.
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:42

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:42
some seriously uninformed views too - in London, (and Britain generally - there are other cities than London) despite a faster pace and concentration levels, they do actually give more space to cyclists and that consideration is returned by the cyclist and there is less selfishness from them, too. You would not have the ridiculous situation as cited above, unless provided for, by lane markings. But, that is general in driver attitudes there. In France, outside Paris, the cyclist is the sacred cow and drivers will not overtake a cyclist unless they can cross into the oncoming lane to do so. As usual, no positive lead nor example provided by authorities here, other than a new, bright idea not thought through or followed through. Look at the state of behaviour on roundabouts. Another bright idea not properly introduced or enforced. Road users would all do well to show some common courtesy but a strong directive to abide by might help.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:56

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:56
Your comment about cyclists' selfishness says enough in itself Steve but this apparently considerate, less "selfish" London cyclist is a figment of your imagination and suggests you've never actually observed their commuting practices. They certainly obey red lights more than some Aussie commuters but that's purely a self-preservation thing. The BIG difference is in the attitude of motorists, including their fantastic bus drivers who have the patience and consideration of a saint imo.
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 22:26

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 22:26
I believe it does: selfishness and breaking the rules says enough itself. Pity you are immune to that in your own imagination.

As usual, you come swinging in your emotional and argumentative fashion little realising we were largely on the same page. My example of cyclists and motor cyclists behaving badly and illegally as I recently experienced could only be argued against, by somebody who would seek to selectively justify that behaviour for the sake of an argument and ignore the other comments I made. You'd start an argument in an empty house, mate.

Your ignorance in driving attitudes in London are mind boggling. The only thing you got right was the attitudes of the motorists being better than most, in that they give consideration to other road users. Can't be bothered with the rest as you obviously know far more than I because your daughter currently lives there whereas I have spent many years there but wouldn't have a clue. Another argument won by the forum windmiller.
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Follow Up By: Batt's - Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 00:41

Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 00:41
Yep there very safe in England on an average of 19,000 bike deaths, accidents combined annually
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 08:11

Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 08:11
Batts: You just made that one up then? They couldn't even manage that in 10 years in Bolivia. LOL

Peaked at 122 total in Britain in 2012.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3313260.ece
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Follow Up By: Member - string - Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 20:05

Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 20:05
Thanks Michelle, for the info. We've been warned !
I strongly believe that wel should all be able to share the roads- pushbikes, trucks, cars, caravans cars, motorbikes etc. Not only the roads, but more importantly, every cent the motorist has to pay- year after year after year, for them. Why should the licralouts that abuse this free privilage of riding their bikes on the roads that we, the motorists have paid for, get away without paying a cent ??
Might I suggest, (1) If you want to ride a pushbike on public roads, you must have rego plates fore and aft and be registered with - TR&M Services. No rego, same penalties as any other unregistered road user, and NO exceptions or excuses.
(2) Registration costs, plus 3rd party, comprehensive, insurance of a "road bike" should be similar to that of a motor vehicle.
If you think I'm being unfair, unkind or downright ugly, just look at the way your insurance is blowing out !!!
share the road, share the (overall) costs !!

string
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 15:58

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 15:58
I don't know enough to make a fully informed comment on that Michelle but it seems reasonable to not get to close to a cyclist as the wind front passing or even the uneveness of a road would mean there would sometimes be deviation from a straight line path.

I suppose the question would become one of is there sufficent room for motorisst to get past without unduly holding up traffic.

Cars going over lines to pass would seem to help, but does the law effectively keep cyclists to the left and not blocking a road, as 1.5m clearance on a 3m wide lane would mean virtualy every car would have to cross lines and some will inevitally miss judge it.
And this distance would only be for bikes in single file.

Like it or not the bigger vehicle usually wins and I wouldn't like to be a cyclist in that trial.
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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 16:43

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 16:43
And here in NSW the cyclist community has a "claim the lane" program going. ie, Don't keep to the left, ride two abreast as allowed by the road rules and use the whole lane, presumably to reduce the tendency of motorists to squeeze by so the cyclist runs out of room.

There are some roads, not freeways, just busy urban arterial roads in Sydney that are not only just not suitable for cyclists, they are dangerous. Cyclists should not be on them; they make it dangerous for everyone. But they claim their right. Just a couple of weeks ago that right cost three of them serious injury and one fatality (I think that's the correct count.)
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Follow Up By: scandal - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 18:41

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 18:41
When driving trucks around cyclist, even in single file, they already take up the whole lane from a lawful point of view, the bike and rider .75 meter plus 1 meter(if it's 60 zone) equals 1.75 meter, plus a truck at 2.5 meters plus mirrors equals 4.25 meters, how many lanes are 4.25 meters wide?? and that's with 1 cyclist, yay, they will let us cross lines IF IT"S SAFE, if it was safe to cross center line, why did they paint lines there in the first place? (common sense, I know)
It will just make the motorists that hate cyclist's, hate that little bit more, they will still get hit at intersections and in bad visibility, they usually get killed because the driver didn't see the cyclist in the first place not because the driver was too close .
Shane
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Follow Up By: ExplorOz Team - Michelle - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 19:30

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 19:30
scandal I think you're right there but perhaps this is the intention, ie. to put pressure on roads infrastructure planning so that they will now have a duty of care to apply the correct resources to making roads suitable. From what I can gather, the intention is to increase general awareness that cyclists have legal rights to be on the road and this law makes the public reconsider that despite the complications everyone now is going to have to find a way to share the road, even if it means tolerating some delays.
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Follow Up By: Steve D1 - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 20:33

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 20:33
Sorry Michelle. I said it earlier, and I'll say it again.
Roads for cars.
Parks for bikes.
If you can't travel at the prescribed speed limit, or at least close to it, you are a danger to yourself, and others. It is the reason pedestrians are not permitted to walk on the road. If a person decides to walk down the middle of the road, is it really up to all drivers on the road to avoid their stupidity. Obviously, as people fo society, we would. But is it fair to the MAJORITY of ROAD users?

Steve
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Follow Up By: SDG - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 20:42

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 20:42
And yet it is legal for a horse and cart to travel on the road. Got a funny feeling, they also have right of way. Might need to be corrected on that.
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Follow Up By: ExplorOz Team - Michelle - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:11

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:11
Steve, despite your personal viewpoint on where bikes belong, bikes are by law permitted to use the road. The purpose of my post was to highlight a new law introduced today in Qld about this.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:17

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:17
Must be tough having to share your road with slower vehicles eh Steve? In cities where most cycling (and motoring) accidents seem to occur it appears that ignorant, arrogant and inattentive motorists are the real problems.
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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:58

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:58
Accidents are accidents. Those bikes that got cleaned up in Sydney were not done on purpose. They were travelling significantly slower than the traffic and taking up the whole lane. If my kids were doing that then I would kick their butts for putting themselves in danger. The bikes were allowed to be there but should a sane person be there? No rules are going to stop that type of accident. Unfortunately I tend to think of any cyclist as an idiot for driving at 30 kph in the middle of a lane that has the potential to have much bigger vehicles barreling along at 80 kph. It only takes a blind corner or a crest of a hill and you are gone. I was taught to drive defensively by my truck driver father. He said that everyone was trying to crash into me and I should try to anticipate dangerous situations and drive accordingly. It was good advice no matter what you are driving.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 22:51

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 22:51
To put things into perspective regarding the Mascot debacle Mike, according to reports from other motorists the Sydney cylists were in the left of 3 lanes, were highly visible, and hundreds probably thousands of vehicles had managed to navigate the road without endangering them - despite the speed differential. That said Sthn Cross Drive would be one of many roads I'd avoid like the plague if I was cycling in Sydney, even if it meant having to take a longer, more-circuitous route.
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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 07:45

Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 07:45
Forget about bikes....If you really want to annoy people, drive your car at 30kph everywhere, especially in 100kph zones. Try not to get out of the way. Some people really go off their rocker...it's hilarious and you don't need to be out in the weather on a bike. Expect death threats though. Think of it as an experiment in human behaviour.

The aggression shown by motorists towards a minority of bike riders is not because the bike shouldn't be on the road, it's because the rider is a twat (see experiment above). Most of us rode pushbikes before we could drive so spotting a twat rider is as easy as spotting a twat car driver.
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Follow Up By: Nutta - Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 21:12

Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 21:12
A twat rider to me is the goof thats sits 1 metre on the right side of the line when there is a safe metre to the left of it, annoys the hell outta me.

After these new laws i actually have less respect for them, get these tools off the roads before more are killed!
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Reply By: Slow one - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 16:36

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 16:36
I do agree with the new law. Some will say bikes do this and bikes do that and shouldn't be on the road. The truth is both bike riders and vehicle drivers both do the wrong thing, but the difference is bikes don't normally kill or badly injure vehicle drivers.

The number of times I think we have all seen vehicles come close to bikes when there was plenty of room to keep well away from them. I don't know the reason some do this, whether it is inattention or they just want to frighten the hell out of them.

I do know they are playing russian roulette with the riders well being and these new rules will be enforced if there is contact between the vehicle and bike.

Don't know about others but I seem to be able to find enough room to give them safe passage even when driving a big thing. Just a little patience goes a long way sometimes.

Under the present rules I believe you will find most reasonable drivers would never come closer than 1.5m top a bike rider on the highway. In fact many give them much more clearance than that.

Now back to the office. Besides watching out for bikes I will have to watch my speed a little closer, seeing Qld has just lowered the speed tolerance leeway again.




AnswerID: 530034

Reply By: Mikee5 - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 17:13

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 17:13
When I am stopped at the front at a red light and a cyclist filters through the traffic to the front only centimetres from my car then the light goes green and I move off, I am immediately breaking the law?????
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Follow Up By: ExplorOz Team - Michelle - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 17:33

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 17:33
That's an interesting question, and in fact is answered on the Qld Government transport page today.

The answer is here:

11. What if I’ve stopped and a cyclist pulls up beside
me within the minimum passing distance?
If you have stopped, for example at traffic lights or in a line of
traffic, and a cyclist stops beside you within the minimum passing
distance, you have not committed an offence. When the traffic
starts moving let the cyclist ride ahead, and only overtake the
cyclist when you can safely leave the minimum passing distance.

This original document I lifted this from is a series of FAQs in a pdf here
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Follow Up By: Steve D1 - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 17:46

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 17:46
Who writes these laws?
So the bike you've just spent the last 10 minutes trying to get around, is now back in front of you. And so it starts again. And people wonder why drivers lose it, and show contempt for riders. Once again, a double standard is shown. A motor bike is not allowed to lane filter, ( I believe the fine is $100 per car passed ) and yet the law above not only allows pushies to do it, they are actually rewarded for annoying the majority of traffic on the ROAD. The above example could be repeated many times in "big smoke" traffic. Insane.

Steve
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Follow Up By: Skulldug - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 17:49

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 17:49
Michelle,

Then that seems unfair to me. If it's the law, I'll stick to it but cyclists should stay behind and wait their turn or risk further alienation from motorists.

Skull
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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 17:55

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 17:55
I agree with Steve.

It is the cyclist who should wait to the side and allow the other traffic to clear until it is safe to merge.

And if that never happens, then the road is probably not suitable for cyclists.
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Follow Up By: SDG - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 20:45

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 20:45
Hey Steve D1.
In NSW, it is now legal for motorcycles to be able to lane filter.
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Follow Up By: Steve D1 - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 20:48

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 20:48
Only on a few particular roads.
Check the regs.

Steve
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Follow Up By: Steve D1 - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 20:49

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 20:49
And it's only a trial....

Steve
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Follow Up By: SDG - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:00

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:00
Yeah I did know it was a trial, and it is only for filtering on multi lane roads at under 30kph, which to me sounds like traffic lights.
Personally, I can't do it. Handlebars are to wide, so it will never affect me as such.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:31

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:31
The PDF says nothing at all about lane filtering and I doubt it would be condoned for cyclists at all for obvious reasons. It does however talk about applying common sense!
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Reply By: Member - blackbird1937 - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 18:44

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 18:44
I have ridden push bikes for 70 years, m/bikes, cars and trucks for over 60. I see many impatient drivers who chop in when I leave a gap with my 4x4 or trucks leaving a gap at a traffic light. I have also seen a bike rider 3 wide on a 6 lane road. I have been deliberately pushed into the gutter several times by cars and trucks. The trouble is many people cannot ease off for 2 or 3 seconds. Many people are always running late because they will not get out of bed 5 minutes earlier. Many people have no patience or courtesy anymore. They work on the U-JacK system.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:23

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:23
Yep, it's all about ATTITUDE and RESPECT for others '37.
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Reply By: Member - Ups and Downs - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 19:18

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 19:18
How do you have a fair law when there has to be a guess as to whether there was an infringement or not?

I suppose if someone is hit then it is straightforward, unless the bike rider swerved into the car?

Paul

AnswerID: 530052

Reply By: steved58 - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 20:26

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 20:26
Crossing a double white line is suicide if it was safe then it would be a broken white line therefore this law has already made a mockery of itself Just wait until somebody can't see crosses the double white line head on into another vehicle and the cyclist gets cleaned up as well who says cyclists don't kill and maim people how long can you sit behind a cyclist at 15k's per hour on a winding hill waiting to give him 1.5 meters clearence when they are riding two abreast sometimes in hilly terrain this could be for hours
Steve
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Follow Up By: Steve D1 - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 20:35

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 20:35
EXACTLY....

Steve
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Follow Up By: steved58 - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 20:43

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 20:43
The only way this law has any chance of succeeding is if another law forcing cyclist to ride single file is made this is what the police told us we must do when we were young school children and I for one until recently thought it was law no wonder motorists get so upset with cyclists It takes two to Tango!!!
Steve
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:42

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:42
Rubbish. In most cases it takes a tiny squeeze on the accerator and only a few seconds to get around a cyclist. With even moderate common sense it's not a difficult thing to manage in the vast majority of cases. If it is then maybe you ought to reconsider your position as a driver.

Perhaps I've been ahead of the game but for years I've always given cyclists a wide berth even if that meant crossing a centreline when safe to do so. Seems both courteous and the safest approach to me.
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Follow Up By: steved58 - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:52

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:52
Sometimes it takes more than a tiny squeeze when 30 or more cyclist are riding up to three abreast in front of you and dont move over with double white lines uphill for kilometres I also have always given cyclist a wide berth but they seldom allow me they same consideration and I did not appreciate your hidden insult telling me to reconsider my position as a driver will not help in the discussion at all you know nothing about me or my driving skills Keep it to the subject please and leave insults out of it

Steve
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 22:04

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 22:04
Your initial post was full of illogical conclusions which suggests to me that you're doing nothing more than looking for an excuse to get on the backs of cyclists. ANY motorist who cannot overtake a cyclist giving them plenty of room and crossing a centreline when obviously safe to do so should reassess their driving attitudes and abilities.
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FollowupID: 812927

Follow Up By: steved58 - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 22:12

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 22:12
Double white lines are marked that way because it is not safe to cross I am now bowing out of the discussion you say that people should be courteous to others but you have not done that in your response to me You think that they are illogical conclusions I believe they are logical you have no reason to insult people
Steve
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FollowupID: 812929

Follow Up By: Bazooka - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 23:05

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 23:05
Unbroken lines are often safe to cross but it takes common sense, and a lot of care and attention. When a slow vehicle has pulled over to the left to allow traffic to pass you have three options. You can give his mirrors a rub as you go past; you can give him room and put a wheel over the centreline; or you can stubbornly hold everyone else up and wait for an unbroken line. I suggest you read the PDF in the link before jumping to conclusions as to what the rule says and how it will operate. It doesn't give carte blanche to motorists to cross unbroken lines.
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FollowupID: 812936

Reply By: ExplorOz Team - Michelle - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:02

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:02
I'm a cyclist but I'm also a driver so I see both sides of the equation. There are many different types of cyclists using the roads today; broadly speaking these are: recreational riders, coffee club riders, commuters, roadies, & triathletes. Each group is out there for a different purpose and would most likely display different behaviours on the roads.

Without laying any blame on any one group, it stands to reason that the recreational users probably have less experience and time on the road than some others. However most recreational riders are usually happy to be on the shared bike paths until they have developed speed and skill to ride on the road, as it becomes too dangerous over about 25km/hr on the path and is impractial to everyone.

The road cyclists are typically cycling at an average of 30km+/hr over an hour+ride. This means sometimes doing speeds of 50km/hr but sometimes 12km/hr depending on conditions. The coffee club riders can be of mixed ability and experience and are your usual Sunday mob riders. However, they (and the serious roadies and triathletes) are less likely to be the ones causing havoc on roads during peak hour or in the CBD.

Commuting is good in theory but the reality is it is difficult to mix bikes and traffic in CBD areas safely during peak periods when everyone is rushing to be somewhere.

The roadies and triathletes who are focused on speed and distance deliberately try to stay away from traffic and problem areas however they cycle a lot as they are very serious about their training hours and might ride 3-6 days per week and often in the very early hours of the morning. Whilst they might avoid high traffic areas they also spend a lot of time on the road and cover a lot of distance, might ride with other serious riders in groups, and are often in a "racing" mindset. These groups have to contend with trying to find suitable roads that won't damage their tyres and suit their training needs (eg long distance at speed with minimal interruptions, or steep hills). The serious cyclists who are training for racing are prepared to go out in the dark, cold, wind, and rain. It's a fact that they're going to have to deal with cars, trucks, road debris and hazards, and abuse. This is the category that I fall into and I can assure you it's scary being a cyclist and each one of us knows we take our lives in our hands on the roads every day out there. The cyclists I train with are usually very resilient but due to their experience and time on the road (many years of cycling experience) they do have an expectation that drivers will do the right thing when they see them so they will not be hesitant to put out their hand to claim the lane as they approach the roundabout as the bike lane merges at 30km/hr. They can't stop quickly at roundabouts, and they can't risk hitting debris and road drains with their skinny tyres as they'll crash or get a flat so they might appear to take "evasive maneouvours" but they are not out of control and can hear you behind and will do their best to get through the situation.

Having all that above, I don't know how any of it helps. But I do know that not all cyclists display the same behaviours. All I know is that all cyclists should all be following the same rules of the road. Unfortunately, its seems not all cyclists do. Just as not all drivers do. I am not about to put the blame on any one of these groups because it's not an "us" and "them" issue, its human nature and unfortunately there's idiots behind the wheel of both bikes and cars. I just think we all need to pledge to do the best we can, to tolerate one another and try not to contribute to the problem.

Thanks for participating in my post. The more we talk about these issues the better.

Michelle Martin
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AnswerID: 530073

Follow Up By: steved58 - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:33

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 21:33
I live in the hills of perth and our roads are used regularly by cyclists training they are not just recreational riding I leave for work early and find that not all but a surprising amount of these riders do not move into single file to allow me to pass even though we cannot safely pass I am patient but at times this road normally takes 5 minutes to drive at these times it takes over 15 minutes if as soon as safe for the riders they moved over it would make it more convenient for both Some riders wave me round when they feel its safe and I appreciate this but some seem to go out of there way to own the road I have never had any problems with standard cyclist and when I have a problem they always have on the lycra etc This sticks in my mind and every time I see a lycra wearing cyclist I think here we go again If as you say they put out there hands to claim the lane when needed fine but I see very few that give any indication of there intentions If they are racing on public roads and are in that mindset then the road should be closed to all other traffic it is not a race track and cars cannot race on it neither should the cyclist I appreciate your sport and enjoy seeing them in my area I even cycle at times but your chosen sport should not use the road in such a way to preclude the normal use to other traffic unless it is an organised and planned event with the necessary safety measures in place I hope this allows some of your fellow cyclist an insight into there chosen sports effect on some other people
Thanks Steve
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FollowupID: 812919

Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 22:51

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 22:51
In a perfect world there would be a total separation of bike riders and motor vehicles. But this isn't a perfect world so we all have to deal with sharing the road.

The attitude displayed by some of the posters about how motor vehicles own the road and cyclists have no place simply highlights the issue's. The problem is, whenever there is a collision between a bike and car, well the outcome is pretty one-sided.

I drive my 4WD's on the roads (a section of the motor vehicle community that is often castigated), have a road motorcycle that I use regularly, ride my off-road motorcycles (use to race in years gone past) and also have several bikes that are used for commuting and weekend "coffee club" riding (well put Michelle!) along with training for the odd triathlon. Point being, I have experienced all sides of the issue from both sides of the fence on many, many occasions.

The real problem is intolerance and its on both sides. Vehicles do NOT own the roads and cyclists have a right to be there. But cyclists can be more considerate and try and minimise the "moving chicane" where possible. And motorists should remember that for every commuter cyclist on the road, its one less car that is actually reducing the congestion.

But the real kicker is that even a "simple" brush-by by a vehicle will result in serious injury or death to a cyclist. Doesn't matter then who is right or wrong, the cyclist pays for it by injury/death and the motorist will likely do some time in jail - no winners either way.

So lets all try and be a bit more tolerant, neither "side" is going away!

Cheers

Captain

PS. Interestingly, most family/friends comment how unsafe it is when I ride my motorcycle yet say how healthy it is when I ride by push bike - yet I know I feel 10 times more at risk on the push bike!
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FollowupID: 812933

Follow Up By: get outmore - Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 16:51

Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 16:51
im an advocate of bikes on the road - i think its just pure road rage and bad driving that leads to all these threads

however some common sense should be used
A good example is the often ridden Mundaring weir road

very narrow, very windy no shoulder to ride on in fact the edge is broken meaning rding more central is necc, not much oportuinity for cars to pass let alone safely.

Due to the numbers of really road rage and drug effected drivers i find my self up on the footpath alot (illegal)

that saved my life once. I was riding up Kalamunda road up the hill
now this road is more than wide enough to easily accomadate bikes let alone my hugging the kerb.
i got a bad feeling and skipped it up onto the footpath and straightaway i heard the squeeling of tyres running up the edge of the kerb as the guy who had lined me up hit the kerb instead of me in his enthusiasm to run me over. by the time it had registered what had happened he was gone.

my standard answer to the braindead comment that bikes shouldnt be on the road because someone saw one run a red light is
i saw a car run a red light they shouldnt be on the road

they just blink and say "thats a silly comment"
- yes it is i say
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FollowupID: 812985

Reply By: gelatr - Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 22:40

Monday, Apr 07, 2014 at 22:40
Firstly let me contextualise my post - I'm a driver and a cyclist.

Where I live in Samford Valley, in Brisbane, is a popular weekend cycling route for cyclists and I've noted that the locals do give plenty of space to cyclists when passing. Its rare to see someone intentionally intimidate cyclists. I've also noted that the larger groups of cyclists generally stay in a single file when traversing the tighter sections of the Samford Range crossing. Consequently I can't see what the problem is. The new rules are just formalising current practice.

As someone who has been seriously injured in a cycling accident I would suggest that some motorists check their anti-bike prejudices. The consequences to a bike rider of frustrated car driver getting it wrong can be fatal.

Its not illegal to ride a bike on roadways and any motorist that considers them a nuisance needs to consider their own behaviours and psychological state. I own 3 vehicles and pay registration and fuel for those vehicles. I also pay more than my fair share of tax so anybody that thinks I'm not paying for my share of the road when riding my bike is out of touch with reality. I'm hopeful that the new rules will encourage others onto bikes and make it safer for those that already cycle. Its just a shame that we need the rules in the first place!
AnswerID: 530081

Reply By: Iza B - Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 05:39

Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 05:39
These laws have been introduced to deal with the inconsiderate drivers who have no regard for the safety of fellow road users. Any cyclist will come off second best in a clash with a car. I have fitted a dash cam facing the rear to my bike, and have a helmet cam as well. My grandkids bikes are getting cameras, as well. Maybe the new laws will be sufficient to adjust some of the idiot attitudes out there.

Iza
AnswerID: 530087

Reply By: The Landy - Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 10:32

Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 10:32
Motor vehicles, cyclists, and roads will always be a controversial topic.

And if I apply a self-imposed ExplorOz “caution filter”, any topic that has a ratio of 3 or more follow-ups per response generally means a topic that is highly charged, potentially full of polarised opinion and possibly best avoided.

But is this part of the problem?

Are we living in a time when it is more important to win or be right, than it is to be considerate and understanding; or to be heard, rather than to listen?

Are we that time poor in our daily lives that any imposition or delay to “our” routine is to be avoided at all cost regardless of consequence to others?

“Walk a mile in my shoes is a quote that comes to mind”.
AnswerID: 530100

Follow Up By: steved58 - Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 11:40

Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 11:40
Only by discissions such as this can lawmakers make the necessary changes to have laws that reflect reality and can head off potential problems that maybe could not otherwise be foreseen
Steve

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FollowupID: 812969

Reply By: BunderDog - Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 11:54

Tuesday, Apr 08, 2014 at 11:54
Would be much easier if the law said that cyclists have to travel in single file at least 5 m from the centreline of the road.
AnswerID: 530105

Reply By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Wednesday, Apr 09, 2014 at 02:38

Wednesday, Apr 09, 2014 at 02:38
Hi Michelle,

It seems unfortunately so! I wrote to the transport minister expressing my concern regarding the impracticality of this law. There have been no serious details about how it will work in practice and I fear it will be the courts that will have to sort out another ill considered law by our Newman Government. I also partake in both activities but am mostly a driver not a rider.

My main points of contention is that it is impossible to know a meter when driving but that really doesn't matter as long as no one gets hit. I believe there is a dob in a driver where riders can send their close calls and these will be followed up. So with a lot of riders wearing action cams I have no doubt some people will get fines as a result of these. The main issue for me is that the law is to equally apply to riders but this is impossible to police. I have decided to fit a crash cam to my car for liability protection (how ridiculous really) as there seems little choice.

On my daily drive I pass a section of road near the Mater Hospital where during peak hour bikes actually travel faster than cars and quite a few will pass between the rows of cars, which incidentally are probably less than a meter from each other, to in some cases drive through a red light as it is not a crossing intersection. As there is no way of identifying the rider these illegal activities cannot be passed on in a similar way as that for car drivers.

The minister has not yet responded and I doubt that he will!

Kind regards

BTW thanks for letting people know as it may affect visitors to our state.
AnswerID: 530140

Reply By: BunderDog - Thursday, Apr 10, 2014 at 07:45

Thursday, Apr 10, 2014 at 07:45
Seems as though it's the cyclists who are coping the brunt of the new laws.

88 cyclists fined compared to ZERO motorists.


Cyclists getting fined in Qld under new laws
AnswerID: 530210

Reply By: Shaker - Thursday, Apr 10, 2014 at 08:30

Thursday, Apr 10, 2014 at 08:30
Why not pass a sensible law that all cyclists MUST ride in single file inside any continuous centre line, single or double?

AnswerID: 530214

Reply By: alexanderstollznow - Friday, Apr 11, 2014 at 13:49

Friday, Apr 11, 2014 at 13:49
I would imagine such laws will be in-place in all States before long, in the typical monkey-see, monkey-do manner these road laws spread.

nor am in favour of the laws simply due to the vagueness many have flagged already. eg 1 metre from where, to where? and how to measure it?

i am not, however, expecting it to affect anyone too much. i wouldnt really think many cars are passing cyclists appreciably closer than 1 metre by any sensible measure, and if they are, they shouldnt. my main concern is rather that is going to further the clamouring for something hugely more intrusive and stupid: ID plates for bicycles. that is just going to be one huge PITA for zero benefit. but look on the bright side - there will be ever increasingly pointless, intrusive, oppressive laws coming your way as the years roll on, so however bad it seems now, it isnt as bad as it will be.
AnswerID: 530314

Reply By: Member - Rod N (QLD) - Friday, Apr 11, 2014 at 20:45

Friday, Apr 11, 2014 at 20:45
Bicycles should be banned from roads where the speed limit is over 80 km/hr, particularly country roads. I can assure you it is not fun when a road train suddenly appears in your lane while avoiding a cyclist. Luckily the edge of the road was good enough for me to avoid the road train, this time.
To cap it off the rider was in dark clothing on a dull wet day. Do they really have a death wish?
AnswerID: 530355

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