Gas Explosions

Submitted: Friday, May 09, 2014 at 13:14
ThreadID: 107688 Views:2143 Replies:7 FollowUps:8
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I've partially switched from a 4kg LPG bottle and two-burner stove without a regulator in favour of those single $14 burner things from K-Mart that use the aersol-sized bottles. I figure the little ones would make a smaller explosion than the 4kg bottles.

Has anyone used a high-pressure gas bottle regulator - if they even exist- on an LPG bottle and will this reduce the chance of the LPG bottle blowing up. I'm referring to the LPG bottles that don't require a regulator.

I hate being burnt.
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Reply By: MUZBRY- Life member(Vic) - Friday, May 09, 2014 at 13:20

Friday, May 09, 2014 at 13:20
Gday Mick
Question....Have you ever seen or heard of a gas bottle 'blowing up' ? .....

Muzbry
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Follow Up By: Kumunara (NT) - Friday, May 09, 2014 at 14:07

Friday, May 09, 2014 at 14:07
Muzbry


Yes I have. It is called a B.L.E.V.E. and I saw the aftermarth of one that completely destroyed a campsite. Luckily no-one was in the camp at the time or it would have resulted in serious injuries or deaths.


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Follow Up By: garrycol - Friday, May 09, 2014 at 18:00

Friday, May 09, 2014 at 18:00
I assume the gas bottle had been leaking and the gas collected somewhere and was ignited - gas bottles themselves do not "explode". You can toss them into a fire and they will not explode as the pressure relief valve releases the gas. Now if that does not work they will go bang but there would have to be a major external heat source.

It is the leaking gas that explodes - not the bottle itself.

Garry
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Saturday, May 10, 2014 at 09:17

Saturday, May 10, 2014 at 09:17
The statement that gass bottles do not explode is an incorrect one.

Under the right circumstances gas bottles most certainly do explode.....they can explode in the true sence of the word and they can take off like a demented rocket.

There are a range of different ways gas and gas bottles, burn, explode and otherwise reak havock.

cheers
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Saturday, May 10, 2014 at 09:56

Saturday, May 10, 2014 at 09:56
This might be quite a bit more serious than a couple of 9Kg bottles in the draw bar of a caravan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5sXki8of9I

What it does show is a variety of ways that gas bottles can fail and reak havock.

Sa for that large source of heat.....well if there is a fire in your caravan or vehicle..started by gas or not...that is plenty enough heat.

cheers
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Reply By: Member - kev.h - Friday, May 09, 2014 at 14:02

Friday, May 09, 2014 at 14:02
Hey Mick
Its got nothing to do with the bottle it is the appliance that either needs a regulator or not and depends on the designed pressure of the appliance
As for your aerosols Butane has more bang power then LPG
Used correctly LPG bottles are inherently safe problems usually occur with the way they are used
Kev
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Reply By: Member - Rob D (NSW) - Friday, May 09, 2014 at 15:01

Friday, May 09, 2014 at 15:01
Those small cylinders are butane.

Butane does not work well at lower temperatures, the liquid will not vaporise and what little does vaporise makes the cylinder even colder and eventually you finish up with no flame. In the Vic high country March and in the mornings I had to use my Coleman dual fuel burner. The butane was OK at night.

There are two different types of butane; N butane and ISO butane. ISO butane will vaporise at about 10 degree lower temperature.

If you relax at a faster pace you can get more relaxation in for a given time.
Regards Rob

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Reply By: John and Regina M - Friday, May 09, 2014 at 15:12

Friday, May 09, 2014 at 15:12
R u using the stove indoors?
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Reply By: Echucan Bob - Friday, May 09, 2014 at 16:08

Friday, May 09, 2014 at 16:08
Mick

The good thing about those small disposable gas bottles, esp the Coleman ones, is that you can refill them from your 4 or 9 kg cylinder.

Bob

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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Friday, May 09, 2014 at 18:09

Friday, May 09, 2014 at 18:09
Not legally or safely.




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Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Friday, May 09, 2014 at 17:25

Friday, May 09, 2014 at 17:25
Those single $14 burner things have gone up with serious results.
All it takes is to place the burner surround upside down. There is, or should be a warning on it to ensure it is the correct way up before using it. Not saying it would blow up each time but it is a known problem. The surround must be inverted for storage in its case and then turned the correct way up for cooking. The aerosol bottles will last about 8 hours max. and then they are throwaways. You need to carry heaps of them to ensure you don't run out of gas at an inappropriate time.

As for the two burner stove, I wouldn't like to be without my Coleman gas two burner stove and BBQ plate accessory. Infinite control of each burner and it leaves my built-in four burner gismo on the camper for dead. With the plate, I can cook up an egg & bacon breakfast, or BBQ some meat.
Can run from the Coleman disposable cylinders, (which I also refill) or a larger gas bottle.

I have just invested in two 2kg gas bottles as they are more compact for traveling.
Sit one in each rear corner of the roof rack basket. I can use them for the stove, Hillbilly gas burner, or to refill the smaller canisters for use in the Coleman hot water system, or stove, if I choose.

Mick, dust off that 2 burner stove and look at smaller cylinders if the 4kg one is hard to carry.
Bill


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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Saturday, May 10, 2014 at 15:19

Saturday, May 10, 2014 at 15:19
Each and every $14 through $48 single burner stove that uses the throw away canister that I've ever seen has warning sticker on the burner surround plate AND it is impossible to actually light the burner with the auto ignition if the 'plate' is upside down ….
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Reply By: The Bantam - Saturday, May 10, 2014 at 09:40

Saturday, May 10, 2014 at 09:40
Mick mate what are your exact concerns?

The small disposable packages certainly do reduce the gas volume involved in a given failure.

The single most common gas related problem is leakage and that leaked gas collecting and being confined in enclosed spaces....that gas and air mixture then getting ignited from various sources.

Gas fires and explosions from this cause are far from uncommon.

There is no substitute for carrying gas in a well ventilated location....that removes the vast majority of risk involved with gas.

The location and method of carrying gas has be agressivly addressed in the trades folowing a number of well publicised "accidents"....BOC, AIRLIQUID and a number of other gass suppliers will not allow you to load or drive out their gate with flamable gas in an enclosed vehicle....in fact they will insist that the cylinder is not in an enclosed space, properly secured and carried upright.

Any company with an informed OHS polocy, now has pretty strict and specific requirements for the carrage of gas on their vehicle.

Likewise the insurance companies have some pretty specific polocies.


Yet, still there are people in the 4wd, camping and caravanning community that flatly refuse to accept that there is an issue and continue to carry fairly large volumes of gas inside their vehicles..AND in the pasenger compartment.

There are even some plainly redicilous things done on some campers and caravans...from the factory concerning carrage of gas bottles in enclosed compartments.

As with everything there are escilating risks, and methods of handling them...so..what actually concerns you.

cheers
AnswerID: 532210

Follow Up By: Mick T3 - Saturday, May 10, 2014 at 12:08

Saturday, May 10, 2014 at 12:08
My concern is that the gas from the flame on the two-burner stove will sneak up the hose and not having a regulator will get in the bottle and then it will go bang.

I do carry the 4kg bottle in my car, but when it is full never park in the sun for lengthy periods.
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Saturday, May 10, 2014 at 13:16

Saturday, May 10, 2014 at 13:16
Flash back prevention does not seem to be the concern with LPG and butane that it is with OXY Acetelene.

There are flash back preventers for POL type gas bottles...but have not seen them for the smaller bottles.

It occurs to me that because the unreguated gas burners use very very fine apitures, there may be less chance of a flashback.

Remember too that most of the cooking burners the flame does not sit directly on the gas apiture.

The gas is blown into a...um...ventury ( for want of a better word) and that then mixes the gas with the air..that is then delivered to the burner.

I have seen flashback....nearly every time a gas burner is lit..and it blows out and is releaved via the fresh air intake.

BTW...in oxy land, the regulator is considered no obsticle to flashback.

As far as gas safety with LPG...there are far more pressing concerns than flashback.

cheers
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