Jeep now had a 9 speed auto

Submitted: Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 17:43
ThreadID: 108475 Views:2763 Replies:7 FollowUps:20
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The ZF 9HP is a nine-speed automatic transmission, designed but not built by ZF Friedrichshafen AG subsidiary ZF Getriebe GmbH in Saarbrücken.[1] As a front-transverse transmission, it will debut in front-wheel drive and all-wheel drive vehicles. ZF touts the new design as being able to save an average of 16% in fuel usage over current 6-speed automatic transmissions. The tentative gear ratio spread is 9.81:1. The transmission will have a torque range between 280 and 480 Nm.


so you may save some fuel but what will that be like in city traffic and the cost to repair it , common sense says the more moving parts the greater the chance of some thing breaking down


OK so is this technology going mad some technical explanation of the new auto trans

In the link is this comment
The transmission was designed by ZF with the Autobahn in mind, where doing 80mph, or double that, is common.

lots of them in Australia

so what would it be like driving around Broken Hill or any town that has a 50 k speed limit


Thanks for your replys and stay warm out there
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Reply By: AlbyNSW - Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 18:08

Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 18:08
The 8 speed boxes are sensational to drive so imagine an extra cog wouldn't hurt
Potential maintenance cost with all this technology like all the stop start, hybrid and other fancy devices is another matter
AnswerID: 534937

Reply By: Ross M - Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 18:41

Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 18:41
That is more gears than the number of bars in the Jeeps grill.

A modern small vehicle Road Ranger, lots of changes before the corner.

Just the thing for those trips to Adelaide you spoke of earlier.
AnswerID: 534938

Reply By: pop2jocem - Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 19:54

Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 19:54
A CVT would be a better option if the transmission could handle the torque. Then you would have an almost infinite number of ratios between the lowest and the highest and no gear shifts.

Cheers
Pop
AnswerID: 534950

Reply By: Bigfish - Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 20:40

Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 20:40
I have an xr8 with a zf6 speed. To replace it is $8,000. What price a 9 speed? Absolutely ridiculous how technology is being forced on us and the crazy prices that go with it..
AnswerID: 534954

Follow Up By: Ron N - Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 23:18

Tuesday, Jun 24, 2014 at 23:18
The Subaru CVT is the most amazing transmission I've come across, and it puts planetary automatics like the ZF in the shade - in fact it makes planetary automatics obsolete, AFAIC.

The Subaru CVT uses a multi-link steel chain between the drive and driven pulleys, as well as a torque converter.
After examination of the layout of the Subaru CVT, I'd reckon it's a simpler transmission than the ZF.

The Subaru ticks over at 1200-1300RPM in drive at 60-65 kmh - but if you need to overtake rapidly, planting your right foot sees the tranny slip seamlessly back into a lower range for instant power and rapid speed increase.

The substantially improved fuel economy of the Subaru CVT is only one of the reasons to own one.
The Subaru's fuel economy with the CVT is outstanding on long runs.

I rented a new XR6 Falcon with the ZF automatic, when in Surfers in April, and the thing hogged fuel like a V8.
The ZF felt like a '57 Customline Fordomatic transmission, as compared to the Subaru CVT.

The ZF has the problem of being manufactured under licence. Ford manufacture the ZF under licence, and we can already guess what the Ford bean counters have done to the ZF design to cheapen it.
Already in the U.S., there are a raft of aftermarket modifications available to the Ford/ZF tranny to improve its reliability in the light duty Ford F-trucks. A cast aluminium transmission pan that holds 2.8L more oil, is just one of the available mods.

The problem with these ZF autos is that the solenoids that are made from plastic, are mounted inside the transmission. Any serious overheating of the tranny (such as heavy towing on a hot day) sees the plastic solenoids melt.

Of course, there is an "over-temperature" light to warn when your tranny is thoroughly fried - just like idiot lights for engine temperature tell you when you've got a cracked head!

If Jeep are building the ZF under licence, it will be built cheaper than the Ford one - and put together by the cleaners on their midnight shift coffee break.
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 08:29

Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 08:29
So how many times have you replaced the trans in your Falcon...... or in that case how times have you replaced a trans in anything.

Chances are if the trans did fail they would be available secondhand or recond for a lot less.

People have very very short memories..... when I worked in a workshop at a Ford dealership back in the late 80's, the electronic 4 speed BTR 85LE trans in the EA was nearly $6000 to replace and there was similar comments about the cost and repairing them...... now they are available for $500 second hand and $1200 recond.....

The Falcon cost $22,000 when new so it was nearly a third of the price of the car to replace it.
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 08:40

Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 08:40
BTW Ford uses a mix of ZF built under license and built be ZF.... the BF and FG Falcons use a ridgy dig ZF as did the F250, the F150 used a Ford built ZF.
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Follow Up By: Road Warrior - Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 13:17

Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 13:17
Ron N the only transmission Ford use that is the "licence copy" of the ZF 6 speed is the 6R80 transmission and that trans is only fitted to the diesel engined Territory and the Ranger in this country

All other Falcons and Territories use the bona fide ZF transmission.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 14:06

Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 14:06
It all depends on what you call a "bona fide" transmission. ZF is a global manufacturer, and your "bona fide" ZF can be partly assembled by the vehicle manufacturer from ZF components, or totally built by the vehicle manufacturer - or it can be sourced from a ZF factory anywhere from China to Mexico. A lot of ZF trannys coming to Australia will now be Chinese, particularly in Fords.

Note that in this following article, it's stated that Chrysler is to build up to 1.4 million 928TE and 948TE models of ZF transmissions under licence - so you get a tranny such as the one shown in the bottom pic, with a bold "ZF" logo, along with the Chrysler Pentastar logo - but it's built in Mexico with Fiat and Chrysler part numbers, thus showing it's a Chrysler-built product. When a company builds a product under licence, the first thing they do, is look for ways to build it cheaper.
A lot of people would be fooled into thinking this Chrysler ZF tranny is a genuine German-built ZF tranny.
It takes a lot of research to find out just who is building what, and who for, in this global manufacturing world.

Not many people know either, that large amounts of Subaru components are built completely by Nissan and Toyota.

ZF 9 speed transmissions in Chrysler products
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Follow Up By: Bigfish - Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 17:18

Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 17:18
Hey oldnotsocoolone..I,ve replaced an auto tranny in an xd falcon years ago as well as an older falcon. What that's got to do with anything?
I know of numerous cases where the zf 6 speed has failed. Been a member of various ford forums for years and have many mates right into performance fords. Reconditioned box will set you back at least 5-6000 depending on where you get it. My car cost $50,000 new. That makes the tranny about15% of the price. Get onto some of the forums and read about the radiators coolant leaking into the tranny with disastrous news!! My own falcon has the radiator fitted with a stainless cooler to negate the alloy corrosion affect that shagged many transmissions. My car is now 5 years old and the tranny is still about 8000 fitted. My point was ...do we really need this hellishly expensive technology? If it was delivered at a realistic price I would be all for it...
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 17:39

Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 17:39
Ron you make me laugh.... where do you come up with this?

I know you hate Ford with a passion and it seems many other manufactures as well.

ZF are very heavy in to design, research and development where by they use their expertise for paying customers like Ford and Chrysler.

Other customers choose to buy a ready made ZF product, these customers include, Ford, Chrysler, Mercedes Benz, BMW, Jaguar and many more.

The 9 speed is a true ZF and is built by a joint venture of ZF and Chrysler........ZF injected nearly $900 million in to the plant.



QUOTE"Not many people know either, that large amounts of Subaru components are built completely by Nissan and Toyota."

Your kidding aren't you! what?.....

This has been happening since Cobb and Co days, Ford, Toyota and Holden share manufacturing processes and when Mitsubishi was here they helped as well, when Mitsubishi closed the other three were very concerned as Mitsubishi did press stamping for them and Holden did trim panels.

I don't know about the "large amount" but yes I am sure they share manufacturing processes.

These manufactures have so many different and diverse subsidiaries they all share with one and other....... no use having 10 facility doing the same costing money running at 25% productivity.... it makes economical sense to share and work together.

Hate to tell you Ron this happens in all industries.
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 17:50

Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 17:50
Bigfish.....

The ZF failed due to something outside ZF's control.... the RADIATOR.

If the radiator hadn't failed then the trans would of not failed.

The radiator problem is well documented and there is a fix for it, your trans is still quite expensive due to it still being current.

The other thing what happens to ZF trans in turbo Falcons is to much power, abuse and inadequate cooling.

And you point is?

Hellishly expensive technology eventually hellishly cheap technology.

Look at you Falcon...... 5 years ago $50 grand and today $16500 and maybe $20,000 if lucky as a trade in...... so that make your trans worth nearl half the price of the car!
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Follow Up By: Bigfish - Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 21:03

Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 21:03
YOUR A DILL OLDCOOLONE. jUST PAID INSURANCE ON THE CAR AND UNSEEN MARKET VALUE $28,000...

I know you profess to know a lot about every thread but as a know all ...your flogging a dead horse.hahahaha
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Follow Up By: Nutta - Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 22:16

Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 22:16
Why dont you rip that cruddy 6 speed out bigfish and throw in a 2 speed powerglide, might save some bucks down the track!!!!!!
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Follow Up By: Penchy - Thursday, Jun 26, 2014 at 09:43

Thursday, Jun 26, 2014 at 09:43
You pay 500-1200 for an EA gearbox now because that car is now a bag of bleep e that is 20 years old. Compare apples for apples.
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Follow Up By: Jarse - Thursday, Jun 26, 2014 at 12:28

Thursday, Jun 26, 2014 at 12:28
That's funny.

The 8-speed ZF in my diesel GC is made in the Fatherland. It changes so smoothly you have to look at the gear indicator to check what gear it's in. The designers and manufacturers really have done a great job with it.

When I'm towing the temperature on the gauge - not idiot light - reads generally the same, or 3-max 4 degrees higher (up hills) than when not towing.

Fuel economy is good compared to my previous tow vehicle. Around 7.5 on the HWY (I'm no slouch) to about 13.5 towing. I'm happy with that.

Just reporting some facts :)
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Thursday, Jun 26, 2014 at 21:06

Thursday, Jun 26, 2014 at 21:06
Bigfish..... As i said $16,500 - $20,000 AS A TRADE IN...... Mate it's only a low powered V8 base model Falcon...... And it's slower then the turbo XR6... Your flogging a dead horse LOL ROLF

Penchy....... I would not expect the ZF 9 speeder to fail for at least 20 years hence my comments about the EA, and yes in 20 years time the Jeep won't be far behind the current price of a EA. Don't you think in 20 years time the Jeep won't be a peace of bleep as well?
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Follow Up By: Penchy - Friday, Jun 27, 2014 at 08:38

Friday, Jun 27, 2014 at 08:38
I could argue that they're a peice of sh1te now lol
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Reply By: Bludge - Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 00:05

Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 00:05
If it goes the way of the Range Rover (8 speed auto) or the Auto Amarok there will be no low ratio box, saving money weight and mechanical wear and tear.

I have no issue with 8 or 9 speed auto's in 4WD's, I could possibly live with no low range, but what they do not provide is a second (lower) reverse gear. This can be the most useful gear n some situations, very handy when towing and manoeuvring a trailer up steep drives, embankments or hills.
TonyV

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Follow Up By: Ron N - Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 17:47

Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 17:47
Bludge - What I find interesting is that the new ZF 9 speed is overdrive in no less than FOUR of the top gears - 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th (see the gear ratios in the Chrylser webpage link above).

The direct gear in this tranny is 5th. As we're constantly advised to NEVER tow in an overdrive gear (good advice, as I've busted an overdrive gear in an International truck "joey box", many years ago, with inappropriate use - i.e. - against the manufacturers recommendation to never pull a heavy load with the joey in overdrive) - then it appears that the owners of vehicles fitted with the ZF 9 speed will be obliged (or forced to, by transmission electronics) to limit their upper gear range to 5th gear, when towing!

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Bludge - Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 18:38

Wednesday, Jun 25, 2014 at 18:38
Ron, I agree, that "over driving" is a poor substitute, but seems to be the way of the world where roads are good.

I have driven the 8 speed Range Rover gear 7 and 8 were overdrive (2013) and the Auto Amarok in 2012, While the Amarok drove the test track in Sydney at the 4WD Adventure Show, I didn't get the same feel that a low range vehicle gives.
The Range Rover was on Stockton Beach, again worked well but Stockton is a high range place anyway.

While power to go forward appear to be fine with these gearboxes, nothing is as reassuring as the engine hold (retard) in low range when you go slow or down hill, as I said 2 reverse gears I think are essential .
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Thursday, Jun 26, 2014 at 13:01

Thursday, Jun 26, 2014 at 13:01
There might be an issue towing in an overdrive gear in an asian 4wd but for most vehicles it is not an issue if you treat the overdrive gears like any other - drive it in its correct load and speed range - hence if under low load fine to stay in overdrive, if driving up hill change down.

No issue in towing in overdrive gears.
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FollowupID: 818856

Reply By: Slow one - Thursday, Jun 26, 2014 at 06:59

Thursday, Jun 26, 2014 at 06:59
Allein,
I guess when they become common all will be revealed, so I guess until then it will be speculation about what they drive like.

I have seen answers here going back to 50 year old manual joey boxes and statements that modern auto boxes can't be used in overdrive. I just stick to the manufactures specs and tow in sports mode, which normally means the box selects 5th gear at highway speed towing 2.5t. The 5th gear is an overdrive and it will drop down as soon as it detects excess torque being applied. I have seen people talking about tranny temps and going back years ago to old school autos. My auto tranny fluid coolant circuit thermostat doesn't even open until the fluid has reached around 94C.

Answering your question about 50kph, the box computer will select the right gear for that speed and the engine will run at it's optimum revs.

Times they are a changing.

AnswerID: 535020

Follow Up By: allein m - Thursday, Jun 26, 2014 at 09:54

Thursday, Jun 26, 2014 at 09:54
Times they are a changing.


so true I got my drivers license in a 3 speed column shift Torana no power steering

thanks people some interesting and varied reply,s

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Reply By: Dave(NSW) - Friday, Jun 27, 2014 at 09:15

Friday, Jun 27, 2014 at 09:15
Who cares about the transmission, The big question is do's it come with a couple of fire extinguishers.
Cheers Dave
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AnswerID: 535073

Follow Up By: Slow one - Friday, Jun 27, 2014 at 13:43

Friday, Jun 27, 2014 at 13:43
Dave,
it comes with a gift wrapped box of matches and a litre of petrol. This guarantees the replacement of the gearbox and in fact the whole car in case of a warranty claim. There is a small $600 claim fee though.

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Follow Up By: Dave(NSW) - Friday, Jun 27, 2014 at 15:19

Friday, Jun 27, 2014 at 15:19
Do you need matches? I though they come with self ignition.
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