Sodium Percarbonate instead of napisan home brand

Submitted: Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 15:03
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Hello,

I am from the United Kingdom. I can't find any of the napisan homebrands suggested for a portable toilet. The original napisan is available but it seems from what I have read that the percentage of Sodium Percarbonate is too low to be effective.

Could I use Sodium Percarbonate instead? I bought some on ebay. If it can be used, what dosage would be appropriate. Would it be safe?

Sam
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Reply By: baznpud (tassie) - Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 16:17

Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 16:17
Napisand Homebrand is the Supermarkets own home brand napisand and is readely available at Woolworths or Coles supermarkets.
Don't know about Sodium Percarbonate.
baz
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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 16:51

Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 16:51
Baz,

Sodium Percarbonate is the active ingredient in Napisan and generic equivalents. Do they have Coles and Woolworths in the UK?

Sam,

You can use straight sodium percarbonate but you will need to find out the dosage for your sized tank. I cannot help you with the rate, I don't know, but I DO know that it's possible to overdo it.

When you find out, make sure it's fully dissolved so it doesn't leave grainy particles or powder on any slides or seals.

Also, there is a product available here in Oz called Bio Magic (active ingredient sodium percarbonate) but it's pretty expensive so probably not what you're after.

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FrankP

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Follow Up By: Member - Rod N (QLD) - Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 16:52

Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 16:52
Nappy soakers have had a name change. They are now known as laundry soakers eg the Woolworths one is "Homebrand Laundry Soaker and Inwash Booster" and similar at Coles.
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Follow Up By: Juzzy - Thursday, Jul 10, 2014 at 23:44

Thursday, Jul 10, 2014 at 23:44
You can get 100% Sodium Percarbonate from home brew supply shops as it is used for cleaning that type of equipment well. And cheap too.

Example:
https://nationalhomebrew.com.au/multi-purpose-parts-and-accessories/cleaners-and-sterilisers/other-brewery-cleaner-400g
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Reply By: Steve - Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 16:42

Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 16:42
is Sodium Percarbonate even available in Oz?

Like Surgical Spirit, you might find it unavailable here. ???
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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 17:02

Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 17:02
The OP lives in UK, Steve.
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Follow Up By: Steve - Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 17:15

Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 17:15
Yep, I realise that Frank but I suppose I was trying to say that people might not be familiar with it here. I know I'm not but then again, chemistry isn't my forte.

;)
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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 17:31

Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 17:31
Hi Steve,

OK. And a quick google indicates the stuff is available in Oz from home brew suppliers, so if anyone want to go the way the OP has, they can. Not expensive - one page I saw quoted $14 a kilo.

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Follow Up By: Member - graeme W (WA) - Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 18:19

Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 18:19
Hi Frank . Great steriliser for home brew bottles etc. Most of the home brand nappy soakers contain about %30 sodium percarbonate so its usually cheaper to buy that way and combined with the other %70 makes a great cleaner as well. Home brew containers stain over time and if you fill them with water and add a couple of table spoons of any of the nappy soakers will end up like new.
cheers Graeme.
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Reply By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 17:01

Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 17:01
Sam,

Further to my follow-up above, this might give you an idea:

I don't use anything in my toilet - it is a vacuum system fully sealed when in use so I don't have to manage smells.

But I do use it in my grey water holding tank. The generic product I use is 25% sodium percarbonate. I use a capful, which is 40 grams, for 50 litres. So if I was using straight SP I guess I would use a quarter of that amount, 10 grams.

Dosage rate for black water holding would have to be higher, but I don't know by how much, and also adjusted for tank size. I don't think it would hurt to double the strength I use for black water holding as a starting point, so 20 grams per 50 litres and scale that to your tank size.

Dissolve it completely before adding to the tank.

If the suggested dosage rates are wrong no physical harm will be done, you will just continue to have the smells.

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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 17:08

Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 17:08
"I don't think it would hurt to double the strength I use for black water holding as a starting point"

would be better phrased

"For black water holding, as a starting point I don't think it would hurt to use double the strength I use for grey water holding."
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Follow Up By: Sand Man (SA) - Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 18:35

Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 18:35
Frank,

You don't use anything at all?

Maybe that explains a couple of experiences we encountered while staying in a caravan park in Kununurra.
We were pretty close to the dump point, but in all but two cases experienced no odors at all.

The two exceptions were a couple of blokes who obviously also didn't use anything in their cassette toilets. The stench was bordering on gagging. Just as well we weren't eating at the time.
It was plain raw sewerage they were dumping down the chute, one of whom didn't even bother to use the hose afterwards.

Not having a go at you Frank, but some folk are just ignorant of anything else around them.
Bill


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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 20:22

Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 20:22
Hi Bill,
No, nothing at all. The contents including the paper are totally liquified by the system so there are no lumps to get caught on leaf grills, etc which some places use, and are kept totally natural so they can be disposed of in any system without fear of affecting biological processes. Eg in septics, long-drops, hybrid systems etc.

I didnt take umbrage at your comments but hasten to assure you if I use a dump point I always rinse it afterwards. I too have seen the "leavings" left behind by bogans who are too lazy, ignorant or indifferent to clean up after themselves.

I think van parks who put dump points near sites or vice versa are the cause of your problem, not the users of the dump points. ( Not having a shot at you, Bill:-))

Not a pleasant subject, but something we travellers all have to deal with.

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Follow Up By: Zebrasam - Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 20:23

Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 20:23
Hi Frank,

Thanks for the advice. You said:

"I do know that it is possible to overdue it"

and

"If the suggested dosage rates are wrong no physical harm will be done, you will just continue to have the smells."

Are you saying that if the dosage is too high it would be ineffective? I would have thought it would just increase the strength of the process.

What about blowback when you open the blade. Could that be an issue.



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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 21:06

Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 21:06
Hi Sam

Im not the expert in this - one of our club members is, but he doesnt frequent Exploroz. This is what I remember of what he told us...

There are two processes that cause the smell - anaerobic and aerobic. Anaerobic bugs do their thing in a low oxygen environment, aerobic bugs like oxygen. Its the waste products from the anerobic bugs that make the worst smell. Aerobic bugs make a smell too but its not as offensive.

The trick is, IIRC, is to get enough oxygen in there to inhibit the anaerobic process, but not enough to encourage the aerobic process take off.

Regarding blowback when you open the blade, I cant help you with that as I have no experience with that in my system. I assume from the question that yours has no pressure relief vent. When the bugs produce gas in my vacuum system and the vacuum drops, the vacuum pump runs to restore the vacuum. The exhaust from the pump passes through a charcoal filter to remove the smell. Its a great system.
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Reply By: Slow one - Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 17:36

Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 17:36
Sam,
we use woolworths homebrand laundry soaker & in wash booster in our dunny. It is also a nappy wash and has 346 grams of sodium percarbonate/kg plus we add 1/2 a teaspoon of eucalyptus oil in one litre of warm water and stir. It does work well.
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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 18:14

Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 18:14
Napisan is sodium percarbonate (probably with a few other things thrown in that don't improve performance)

We are currently in Scotland in a MH.
The last supply of sodium percarbonate we purchased was "The Co-Operative Stain Remover - Ultra" 500gm.
The problem in the UK is that the ingredients are not described accurately like they are in Oz.
They are described as "More than 30% oxygen based bleaching agent"

Cheers,
Peter
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Reply By: Steve - Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 18:39

Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 18:39
just a quickie (don't want to hi-jack the thread) but I must confess we initially bought a large quantity of the pink and green stuff as we got a good deal and have since been made aware of better alternatives. Now, nearing the end of the supply, do we just change over to napisan or do we need to do any extra cleaning?
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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 20:14

Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 20:14
Make sure you clean the cassette very thoroughly before changing.

Cheers,
Peter
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Follow Up By: Steve - Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 20:19

Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 20:19
thanks Peter - if I give it a wash and then run some napisan or even the sodium percarbonate through it to clean before use.....?
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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 20:29

Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 20:29
Steve,
Rinse, rinse, rinse again. Agitate with each rinse. Then hit it with a strong percarbonate solution, agitate, empty then charge with a working dose.

Chemicals and chlorine (often used to disinfect) kill the process - you have to get rid of them.

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FrankP

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Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 18:43

Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 18:43
Hi Sam,

The original napisan brand is quite OK to use. The percentage of Sodium Percarbonate is only slightly less than the Home brand we mention and is still quite effective.

I ran out of my Home brand powder while on holiday and bought some Napisan from the supermarket.
Didn't experience any noticeable difference in performance at all.

The only real difference is the Home brand is cheaper to buy and contains a slightly higher level and therefore is marginally more cost effective to use.

Bill


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Reply By: Motherhen - Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 23:50

Monday, Jul 07, 2014 at 23:50
Hi Sam

While the store brands keep on changing their product names, I try and keep up with them here My Blog on Toilet Chemicals
Motherhen

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