Diesel fuel additive.. Yes or no

Submitted: Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 09:33
ThreadID: 108898 Views:8688 Replies:9 FollowUps:38
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Hi all
Have heard of people putting different things into their fuel, is it worth doing, and what benefits do
D4d engines get out of it.. What do you put in? Does it do anything? Fact or fiction?
Two stroke oil, anti algae stuff... Both? Who knows? Confused, need answers.. Cheers Odog
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Reply By: Member - bbuzz (NSW) - Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 10:56

Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 10:56
Hi,
I am using Chem-Tech in my Ford Focus (diesel) and Prado 120 D4D).

Both 2008 models, the Focus has had it in since 79km, now 82,000. The Prado has had it from 60,000 now 90,000.

No obvious benefit but others have seen good results when changing injectors and/or inspecting EGR units, fuel filters and other fuel associated things.

With the carbon problems on the Prado, I think it is a small price to pay for a benefit that may be cost effective down the track. Only time will tell on that front.

bill

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Follow Up By: Member - Odog - Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 11:10

Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 11:10
Thanks Bill, is chem tec like an algae killer substance? Bloke I work with, has a landcruiser ute, v8 turbo diesel, had his water watch go off a few times, was found to have algae contamination.. And has been using an additive, vehicle only had about 30000km on it, first time it went off. Just interested to here what people are using, and benefits.. Thanks for reply.. Btw, mine is a 150 prado.. Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - bbuzz (NSW) - Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 16:53

Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 16:53
Odog,
As I said, haven't had to do any work yet, so I'm not sure what benefits there are.

Trucks use a variant of Chem-Tech and my diesel mechanic swears by it. Algae, water, cleans fuel lines, lubricates pumps are some of the claimed benefits.

I trust him and I did buy a HJ60 off him with 350,000kms on it that ran like a new one. So I have kept using it.

Like others say, if your injectors and other fuel links are clean or working longer than normal, it has to be the difference.

I have done the kms with the Focus (touch wood) with no problems so I don't think there will be a backlash.

I had a KZ 2003 Prado, that I started Chem-Tech on it at 270,000. By 310,00, the fuel consumption had improved from 15k/100 back to 13.5k/100 pulling a little van and there was a noticeable difference on hills and unladen pickup.
It also had a clean throttle body where before hand it was black with soot.

I am hoping that the additive will clean the EGR and associated bits as well.

My sump on the 120, is clear (pulled it off at 70,000km) to check for gumballs and I am thinking that the additive should soften and dissolve any deposits in all areas where fuel and perhaps exhaust goes.

Not a scientific thought, but heh, it might work!!

Will not know until I do some strip down repairs.

bill
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Follow Up By: Member - Odog - Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 18:49

Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 18:49
Thx Bill, that's good info, I'll have a read on the chem tech. Sounds like it is an all in one fix.. Thanks
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Reply By: MUZBRY- Life member(Vic) - Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 11:56

Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 11:56
Gday
I have been using mineral 2t in my vehicles for 50 or so years , i don't know if it does good or not , but i haven't used it in my currant vehicle , don't know why. I must get some algae killer just to be on the safe side when i fill my empty tank next..
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Follow Up By: Member - Peter R (QLD) - Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 12:14

Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 12:14
I think your warranty may be at risk if used in the common rail diesel.
Please see this thread I started on Pradopoint http://www.pradopoint.com/archive/index.php/t-12780.html

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Follow Up By: Les PK Ranger - Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 12:42

Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 12:42
Seeing as you put that thread up Peter, where you thinking of fuel additives, oil additives, both, and / or other ?

I have been using Castrol 2T Activ in my fuel at 200:1 since 50k, and I use the dose of Nulon Diesel engine oil additive to the oil when serviced.

Both do make the engine run smoother and quieter.
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Follow Up By: Member - Peter R (QLD) - Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 15:12

Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 15:12
Les PK Ranger, it was fuel additive, and was prompted by the fact the dealer had put in an additive prior to me speaking to diesel specialist.

The specialist did say that older engines could take the additive but not the new common rail.

As you will note in thread the dealer gave me a written undertaking to be responsible for any costs caused by the additive.


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Follow Up By: Les PK Ranger - Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 15:27

Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 15:27
Ta Peter, I did notice my Ford dealer added a fuel additive $6 or so at the 10k service.
I didn't ask for it, and due to a couple of errors in servicing, I have never been back to a dealer for these since.

Using 2SO in the fuel, I see no way it can harm anything in any diesel system.
In a 126lt tank I add just 625ml, and the right 2SO it is totally soluble.
As a mineral oil it just burns, and can't be any dirtier than diesel.
Certainly quietens down injector noise, and supposedly lubes pump etc.
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Reply By: Member - Odog - Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 14:21

Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 14:21
Thanks Guys
Good read on the link to prado point, think maybe I might just put a dose of algae killer in the tank from time to time, and keep up regular oil and filter changes along with the fuel filter changes, whether they are in the service schedule or not... Only one more capped service to go.. Supposed to be 60000km or 3yrs.. Have just clicked over the 34000 km mark, no more dealer warranty after that, so will maybe just do the oil and filter changes my self.. Will see how we go. Thanks heaps for input. Cheers.. Odog
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Follow Up By: Member - Odog - Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 14:33

Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 14:33
Sorry Peter, meant to say, on your prado point thread, in relation to the winter mix diesel for up the mountains, I used to work at caltex depot here in Canberra, we would pump a couple of rail way cars 50000-70000lts each, into the main diesel tank ( couple of hundred thousand litres ) straight heating oil, it would mix with the diesel, and stop it gelling up under cold conditions, so all servos including local would be running a mix of heating oil and diesel... Maybe that explains the rattle we get in our engines in the winter.. Lol Cheers
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Follow Up By: Les PK Ranger - Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 15:28

Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 15:28
Always wondered what they put in the mix for winter diesel, good old heating oil hey ?
What ratio, do you recall ?
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Follow Up By: Member - Odog - Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 15:44

Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 15:44
Sorry Les, was 25 years ago.. Wow we're has it gone.. Am I that friggin old.. Ha. No mate don't think there was any real formula, it was just, "yep righto, that rail car will fit into that tank" was more about storage I guess than worrying about mix quantities.. We would unload 8 cars at once, 16 cars in a load, once a week I guess.. Put it where it fits, as long as petrol n diesel don't get mixed. Think storage tanks were half million litres, up to million or so. Cheers
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Follow Up By: Les PK Ranger - Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 15:55

Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 15:55
No worries Odog, sounds like no real science to it back then, maybe not that important.
But I imagine today there'd be a ratio of whatever they use now.
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Follow Up By: Sigmund - Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 17:52

Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 17:52
Alpine diesel: http://www.caltex.com.au/sites/caltexenergynsw/documents/winter%20diesel%20faq.pdf
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Follow Up By: Les PK Ranger - Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 18:15

Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 18:15
Thanks, I think I have seen that before, but good to read again.
While it doesn't say what they actually add, it has probably progressed from using 'heating oil' as an additive :)

What I did find interesting is that the Alpine mix resists clouding only 4oC lower than normal diesel, would have though it would be more.
Could be that regular diesel is ok down to - temps ?
Alpine can get quite a lot below 0.
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Follow Up By: Sigmund - Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 18:38

Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 18:38
I know some guys who only fill with AD when they plan on parking overnight.

Falls Ck as an example would be cold at the height of winter at -5 overnight.

I've camped at 4 Mile Hut in the Snowies when it got down to -14. Wish I'd had the human equivalent of AD! Thawing the leather ski boots out in the morning was, er, memorable.
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Follow Up By: Les PK Ranger - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2014 at 01:08

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2014 at 01:08
AFAIK, pretty much all servos anywhere near resorts sell the alpine mix.
Usually advice is to get to near the destination with as near empty tank as possible, and fill up.
As fuller tank as possible best when you park.
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Follow Up By: Sigmund - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2014 at 04:51

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2014 at 04:51
Yep. They only sell Alpine.
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Follow Up By: Sigmund - Sunday, Aug 03, 2014 at 17:34

Sunday, Aug 03, 2014 at 17:34
I was at Falls Ck today in the Vic alps. It got down to -9 last night and roadside assistance was very busy in the morning. Neither Alpine diesel nor additives *nor both together* stopped the wax from clouding at that temp.
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Follow Up By: Les PK Ranger - Sunday, Aug 03, 2014 at 19:08

Sunday, Aug 03, 2014 at 19:08
Very odd Sigmund.
It routinely gets to well below 0 often in the alps, and -9 or more is not uncommon.
Cars literally buried in snow on mid week stays must get down to extremely low temps, like a deep freeze.
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Follow Up By: Sigmund - Sunday, Aug 03, 2014 at 19:38

Sunday, Aug 03, 2014 at 19:38
Les, the locals say that -9 is unusual.

And snow can work like a blanket. Antechinus up here in winter survive in tunnels in the heath that have a temp a bit above freezing.
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Reply By: Ross M - Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 15:33

Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 15:33
Odog
I see it this way.
If you use 2T oil in the fuel and your injectors ie, in a Hilux or Prado, are still running well at 200,000km when most others have karked it, and are on their second set of injectors after 150,000km. Then it is an indicator the added 2T oil is doing something positive.
You won't have a reasonable idea about the 2T until your mates who don't use it have replaced their injectors and you haven't. Like Tattslotto, a little weekly loss may be a reward later.

That is quite different from algae treatment and it might be used periodically to stop algae growth ie, insurance dose. or added to specifically treat and kill algae because it definitely is noticed and action must be taken.

Two different things added for entirely different reasons.

I asked Bill B what are the good results noticed with injectors and EGR. just mentioning good, doesn't convey much about what the "good" actually is. You have to consider what happens in a fuel system and when it happens to determine results.

If there is no algae in the tank then the killer will work exceptionally well as it does nothing. So no filters contaminated with black. If black is there and then you treat it and after a time there is no more black, then you know it is has worked. This is different to not having to work and do anything in the first place.

It is all situational for everyone who uses it.
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Follow Up By: Member - Odog - Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 16:52

Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 16:52
Thanks Ross, need to do more research, it is a shot in the dark I guess. The idea of 2t oil in the fuel maybe worth it.. But that saying, if it ain't broke, don't fix it! But for long term, who knows? Cheers
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Follow Up By: Sigmund - Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 17:46

Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 17:46
With yacht diesels the algae ('black bug') grows in the water condensation which is hard to completely eliminate so an algicide is added when tanks aren't used for a while.
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 09:01

Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 09:01
Geezs with the number of CRD Prado, Hilux and Hiace on the road these diesel places must be booked out for months on end replacing injectors..... surprised there is not a world shortage.

SShhh keep it quiet...... you don't want the general public to here it as it will make selling then hard.... you will have to give them away.

Why is it with the many who own theses money pits on dedicated vehicle and 4x4 forums you only ever hear of a few now and again..... I would expect more to winge on a public forum.

Pradopoint is a good example, must be thousands of regular contributors on there with the D4D engine....funny how only a very small number are vocal about it.

I see more people who don't own them complain about it. jealousy is a sad thing!
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 09:56

Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 09:56
Yeh you can piss on the idea all you like, it does not change the fact that common rail diesels ARE far more vunerable to damage to the fuel system due to fuel contamination.

It is known, it is proven and it does happen.

While the number of peopel who experience damage to their fuel system may seem small....the number who go and post about it on forums will be even smaller.

The fact is it does happen and the costs when it does are rediculous.

cheers
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 13:01

Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 13:01
It's just the signs of the times and an evolution that may take a while to rectify.

I can remember diesel pumps and injectors getting pulled out every 3-6 years with some costing 3-4 grand back in the 80's and 90's..... that was 1/10 of a new house or 1/6 of a yearly wage.

If you gathered the real data of then and now it is probably not much different.

Most that are failing today are at that 6+ year mark and a few have failed much sooner, no different to back in the 80's and 90's

Like anything, new prices will as they are now come down greatly.

A lot have short memories.
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 23:09

Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 23:09
I hope the whole common rail technology matures soon.

Its taken nearly 30 years for the petrol motor to recover from the introduction of polution gear.....some of the early post polution motors where absolute dogs compared to their non polution gear predecessors.

As it stands as a group the cureent petrol motors are some of the most efficient and reliable machines ever made.

I hope the common rail diesel does not take that long to get sorted out.

cheers

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Reply By: Member - Serendipity(WA) - Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 16:38

Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 16:38
I have used 2T since 35,000km. I am now at 175,000km with no problems. I do notice it runs quieter with 2T standard mineral oil. If I don't put in the 2T then it gets that rattle - sounds like tappets.

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Follow Up By: Member - Odog - Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 16:59

Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 16:59
Hey Serendipity. Must do the job, how much, or what ratio do you use? That is the old school 2 stroke, being mineral based I guess? Be interested to give it a go, just to see if does make it a bit quiter, no harm in trying it, don't really notice that much of a rattle really, but just to see. Thx.
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Follow Up By: Les PK Ranger - Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 17:20

Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 17:20
That would be injector rattle.

The right 2SO is important, full mineral type, anything full or semi synthetic is no good.
Castrol Activ 2T is the one I use (bought by 20lt drum), it is JASO FC low ash grade, and I believe there is a good Gulf Western one around same specs, just the Castrol is more easily found.

You can get that in as little as 1lt from Supercheap, 4lt too.
Use at 200:1, very little in the scheme of things.

Try it, and see if you can pick when it hits you engine (smoother, quietens down).
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Follow Up By: Member - Odog - Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 18:52

Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 18:52
Thanks Les, think I may wait till the warranty is up, then I'll check it out, thanks for the feed back. Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Serendipity(WA) - Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 21:19

Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 21:19
I am currently using Gulf Western from Supercheap with a 200:1 ratio.

The sound is injector rattle but only gets bad when not using the 2T oil.

Sometime in the next year I will update my injectors for the newer diamond like coating tip ones that came out 2010 and after. The choice will be from toyota or from Baileys Diesel. Not sure if they have the injectors for 70 series yet.

I also make sure I keep my fuel clean with a water watch system and using a Mr Funnel whenever I am refueling from jerry cans or dodgy places.

Cheers

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Reply By: The Bantam - Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 21:18

Sunday, Jul 27, 2014 at 21:18
Any diesel common rail or not, running some sort of algicide from time to time is a wise precaution.
The bug can sit there waiting for the right conditions to multiply.

From what I have been able to find, Fuel doctor is the best algicide and fuel additive on the market...after testing fuel doctor, Castrol withdrew its existing diesel treatment and began selling fuel doctor rebranbded..they have since baught the company.


As for two stroke.....I've been running it in my non common rial diesel for just over 3 years and it most definitely makes an improvement in my vehicle.

For a non common raile diesel running two stroke is a no brainer.


There is some argument about two stroke in common rail......but there are plenty out there runnng it for it to be considered reasonably safe.

With the common rail motors the consensus is that it must be a good quality low ash, mineral two stroke intended for air cooled engines.

The optimum ratio is considered to be 200:1.

If you google two stroke in diesel, you will find enough hits to keep you reading for a fortnight...and some of the information is from very creditable sources.

the two best threads to start with are the treads on ausfish and 4wd action..they are not hard to find and remain active.

ON a sadder note, one of the european consumer magasines ( like chioce but way better resourced) did extensive tests on diesel additives and found a great many do bugger all, most are less effective than 2 stroke.

cheers
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Follow Up By: bluefella - Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 08:43

Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 08:43
Hi Bantam
Can you see any problem with any moisture in the fuel being converted into microscopic particles so that it can go through combustion process? as stated buy Fuel Doctor. I have been eyeing this product for a while, just wasn't sure about that part. Do you use the Fuel Doctor and 2T at the same time and do you ad Fuel Doctor as per the specified amount each time you fill up. My vehicle is a Toyota 1HDFTE.
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Follow Up By: Les PK Ranger - Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 08:46

Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 08:46
Blue, apparently this happens through the normal air intake too, anything that gets through the snorkel and air filter goes through ok.
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 09:50

Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 09:50
I don't run fuel docxtor and 2 stroke at the same time..thought I have heard of those who do.

The 1HDFTE is a conventional fuel system so you don't have the issue of extreeme sensitivity to water in the fuel that a common rail system does.

Conventional diesels will tolerate relativly small amounts of water in the fuel system ......conventional diesels have filters and water traps that while not perfect will prevent large amounts of water getting into the fuel system.

Even then....getting large amounst of water into a conventional diesel injection system may not be fatal.....just requiring the system to be drained and blead.

where as any significant amount of free water in a common rail system is likley to require a rebuild because of the narrow tolerances and the rediculously high pressures.

back to the fuel doctor.
look at their videos and their web site ( though it is not as comprehensive as it was pre castrol buy out)..I am not sure of the process, but the water does not seem to be "imulsified" which would mean just mixed with the diesel.....it would seem that it is more intamately combined......others may know more.

One thing to understand with the two stroke in diesel......is that it is oil in oil.......it is not any sort of.....um.....foreign additive with a specific chemical action.

It is just another fairly similar oil to the diesel...further more it is an oil specifically designed to be burned cleanly ( particularly good quality product).

One benifit that has recently come to my attention, is that modern good quality two stroke will have additives that are designed to surpress carbon buildup ( a problem in two stroke engines).....It seems to help with carbon issues in diesels too......more hard evidence required though.

Considering that fuel doctor is internded to combat a range of contamination, I cant see that it would react badly with the two stroke.

cheers
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Follow Up By: Les PK Ranger - Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 14:48

Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 14:48
I do throw in a bottle of Moreys Deisel Smoke Killer into the 20lt Castrol 2SO.
Moreso for the anti fungal part of it, and because it is supposed to increase cetane a little (which 2SO might reduce very marginally), makes little difference to the overall cost, so what the heck.

That 1lt Moreys to the 20lt 2SO works out a slightly milder dose of the Moreys, to play it safe.

I don't believe alfae is supposed to be an issue if you regularly fill your tank with diesel, thus it is fresh virtually weekly / fortnightly.
The main issue is supposedly where a vehcile is left for a long time, or where temps are constantly high, like the top end of Aus ??
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 22:22

Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 22:22
The two stroke will actully slightly increase the cetane of the diesel up to arround the 200:1 mark at some point after that it tends to reduce it.

Um...I'm not real cxonfident in the morey's product.

If you want to knock diesel bug down...fuel doctor seems to be the best choice.

But I don't see the necisity to run it every tank...unless you are looking for the water issues.

cheers
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Reply By: olcoolone - Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 09:37

Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 09:37
I would be very careful with additives and in many of them their is not solid proof other them marketing hype to say the do what they are meant to.

IF you drive your vehicle regularly and refuel regularly at a large service station there is no point for additives.

Additive manufactures are like super food and vitamin/magic potion supplement manufactures, they all say theirs is the best and YOU NEED IT....... did I say you need it for the sake of the country and the retirement fund of the manufacture.

Algae and water additives are a bit different, I am talking about the "our additive will do this and that" ones.... the Miracle cure ones.

Many who use it can not really prove it works, they will not invest millions in multiple back to back testing over many years to have accurate data.

Another way of looking at it is if it does work and does everything it is meant to new vehicle manufactures and after secondary warranty companies would be insisting you used it.

Most will not keep their vehicles long enough or do enough kilometers to see any advantage.

Many who have used additives; if something goes wrong they will not go back to the additive manufacture and say it didn't work, they will say "oh well I have to pay X amount of dollars on repairs"

Over 400,000 kilometers if you saved the money spent on the additives you could pay for the repairs and go out for lunch at a top level restaurant.

Just because something runs quieter using an additive it doesn't always means it runs better. there are many ways of producing additive to reduce noise.

Ford produced a additive back in the 80's for the clutch noise in the 9 inch limited slip diffs, it came about from owners of LTD's not liking the faint noise now and again, could not hear it on any other model.

Like many of these products, if it makes you fell good use it.


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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 10:13

Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 10:13
It is true that a great many automotive additives produce little or no benifit....OR...are now well and truly outdated and have been overtaken by normal product formulations.

Many of the genuine and viable fuel and oil additives of the past have now found there way into normal fuel and oil.....so are redundant as stand alone products.

The european consumer association testing of diesel additves proved the notion without a doubt.

they found that many of the diesel additives on their market did bugger all and the majority where less effective than two stroke, only a hand full where worth the asking price.

as far as additives go, two stroke in diesel is different to all others, because there is no salesman making a extortionate profit by making assertions of effectivness.

In fact most of the claims about two stroke are modest and simple.

It is a grass roots concept and has been proven to be effective over many years my a great many people, both on an observed improvement basis and by real actual scientific tests.

It is cheap, effective and accessable to all.

Above all, I have yet to see any claims of damage or impared operation using two stroke in diesel as reccomended.....and while ago I did an awful lot of reading about it, before I was satisfied enough to try it.

From what I have read and my personal experience and those I know who have used it..two stroke in a conventional diesel motor is a no brainer.....in a common rail it bears more thaught.........but don't expect any mirricles.

cheers

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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 12:50

Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 12:50
I think that is where it lies..... people expect miracles and I am sure many have a placebo effect as well.

There is no doubt some additive are beneficial but for the average user it's hard to say.

The two stroke theory is a good one, there seems to be many good results and happy people...... just make you wounder how many fuel additives are nothing more then 2 stroke oil that your paying 500 times the price for.

I remember when Nulon treatment first came out if the 80's and their claim of running a car with no oil from Melbourne to Sydney.

Sure I ended up using it but that was the days before I became skeptical and had a little bit less knowledge to know any better..... aarrrrrhhhhhh the marketing hype.

The only additive I use every 6 months is petrol fuel system cleaner and that's on the motorbikes.... all fuel injected.
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Follow Up By: Les PK Ranger - Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 14:51

Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 14:51
Placebo effect, very probable with fuel econ etc, people are looking for improvement, and tend to drive lighter on the fast pedal :)

Noise though, definitely helps there, just about all that try it notice their engines (injectors / pump) are quieter.
Smoothness too. My UHF aerial wobbles about when running without 2SO (or the Nulon Diesel Engine Treatment), noticeable less with these additives.
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 23:04

Monday, Jul 28, 2014 at 23:04
There may be one or two addtives that are more or less commonly available products like two stroke repackaged.

In the past I was pretty keen on certain oil additives......but I have learned a little about oil and additives since.

I think a lot of the general public and a quite a few mechanics have a very poor knoweledge of available products.

In particular what constitutes a good and appropriate oil.

A lot of the oil that is heavily sold and at high prices in the retail market is very ordinary.....most would be surpassed by one of the diesel spec multifleet oils that can be purchased in 20 litre drums for about $4 - 5 a litre.

A great many people simply have the wrong grade of oil in their sump.......we are still being sold the idea that thicker is better.

It occurs to me that a lot of the benifits that came from some of the additives actually came from the big dose of detergent that came in them.

I was right into the PTFE/Teflon additives in the 80s and 90s......yeh

I think that there where a lot of claims made that would not pass muster these days.

I have seen the film left by some of the teflon products from the 80's and 90's......but I now question if it was a good thing.....it certainly seems that any idea of permenancy as touted in the 80's was...um...over stated...as for the notion that teflon/ptfe actually reduces engine wear.......yeh......Dow Corning don't think so and they make the stuff.

As for the claims of high milage...yeh well.....if you used a good quality modern oil with a strong additive package.....those sorts of high milages claimed as mirraculous are commonly achieved.


As I said...some of the viable oil additives that where arround in the 70s and 80s..and may still persist as after market additives will actually be found in good modern oils...I have seen commercially available oils move from being quite pedestrian, to being pretty sofisticated as they are now.

We only saw the "friction modified" oils come in with the in the mid 80s that would have been the beginning of real viable antiwear additives in commercially available oils.......that is realy not that long ago.

There is one brand of oil additives marketed by a bloke I'll call "Val", because that is his name...that is fifties technology that he baught the rights to in the US back in the 80s.
Well and truly surpassed technology, that you will find better in any modern spec commercial oil.

A lot of people will tell me I'm imadining it....But I am pretty certain my vehicles sound smoother with fresh new oil.....the very same oil I have just drained.

I can also tell you my diesel sounds smoother with a full tank rather than a nearly empty one.

So its not unreasonable to say that many of the uninformed will belive an additive can be doing miraculous things when it is realy not.

As for two stroke in diesel...I am convinced.....particularly in higher milage engines.
The difference in my hilux is significant.......I finally convinced a mate to try it in his very sad kubota diesel mower.......he reports striking improvements in how much smoother it runs and it seems to be improving in power.....he was very scheptical.
I put it down to improving injector action due to better lubrication...and perhaps the additives the the two stroke shifting some of the carbon.

ANYway

cheers

cheers
0
FollowupID: 820971

Reply By: Graeme - Tuesday, Jul 29, 2014 at 12:20

Tuesday, Jul 29, 2014 at 12:20
I am also sceptical about the additives, but do agree with a few of the posters with the mineral two stroke and the algae killers.
Modern diesel fuels are now very clean, but in cleaning them up they are a drier fuel (less lubricants) and still very hygroscopic as they absorb quite a bit of water and this becomes free water with changes of temperature. It is here where the algae flourish.
I have seen the result of both of these problems in the aviation engineering where I work.
In the 80s I was working on brand new aircraft operating in the tropics. We did not do a biocide, but coupled with a fuel drain sampler which did not drain the lowest part of the tank we started to notice pinhole weeping of fuel on the lower wing skin which was 100 thou thick. When we opened the tanks we were scooping the black gunk out by the handfull. A more obnoxious job I could not think of.
The next was when the refinery changed the process to remove the sulphur from the fuel (which does terrible things to turbine blades and other areas). After several pump, and of course engine failures, the problem was identified, but in the interim we had to add a very small quantity of an approved additive to the tanks.
With this in mind I do use a small amount of 2st mineral oil in the fuel and a small amount of Chem-tec for algae treatment as well.
Previously the only fuel pump problem I have had was when I filled up with cheap fuel and had pump failure soon after. I now use Caltex or BP where the large trucks fill up as one can surmise the fuel will be reasonably fresh.
AnswerID: 536783

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 22:43

Wednesday, Jul 30, 2014 at 22:43
I've used Chemtech for over 20 years - never had a problem with the fuel system. I phoned them 2 years ago about the common rail motors - they said they had changed the formulation to handle water differently - it coalesces the dissolved water - precipitates it so it will collect in the bottom of the filter rather than pass through the injector pump. But I mainly use it as a biocide as my vehicle can sit for many weeks without being used. And in the past found it was very good at reducing the amount of smoke.
AnswerID: 536880

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