Unlimited Speed Test.

G'day Robin

Maybe deep within your subconscious a tiny voice was saying 'this is way too fast in a fully laden car'. And how was the heart rate? Faster than the Km/hr?

Cheers
John

"The dot was an odd color, sort of orange."

And I wonder Robin, if it had been a much less noticeable colour, how this might have tuned out?

Rode a powerfull motorbike around Oz in 2004 speed limit was open in the NT back then , cruised many K's at 160+ . Was up there a few months ago on a even more powerful bike . I gave it a couple of top speed runs North of Alice that first section of road is bloody rough .
Speed might be open but it's all up to the Poilce if they think the conditions are not right or your vehicle is not up the whatever speed you might be going , it's called dangerous and you will be booked .

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Could have been worse if you Stargated to SA, your car might have been crushed for that.

Great opportunity to have a play Robyn, and a real novelty, but as Jacko said you can still be booked.
I bet they were having a real close look as they went past you.

Absolutely an incredible coincidence you happened to pass a patrol car at that time, it sounds like literally on your ramp up of speed, so maybe within 5 or 10 minutes of hitting the open speed zone ?
I guess you could drive out there for days sometimes and not see a patrol car.

So what speed did you decide to sit on after this ?

Personally, with an open limit on our roads I'd be fine with maybe 125, 130 tops . . . if it is daytime, the road is straight, verges are wide / clear of vegetation (cover for animals), and general visibility is good.

All it takes is one roo, camel, bird, whatever, another drivers inattention, or a lapse of your own concentration for a slit second, and the risks at dramatically higher speeds can lead to a much more devastating result.

I'd be also worried about something mechanical letting go too, 4wds with CVs, mud worn unis / bearings spinning a million miles an hour :/

My concern with law enforcement of speed is the bookings at low tolerance, portraying someone drifting over an arbitrary speed limit by a few ks occasionally (before correcting) is such a danger on our roads.
Fatigue and inattention on long drives is a far greater issue.

Anyway, happy travels.

I've driven 200+ in the NT when it was all unrestricted and also in Germany. I reckon its too fast, things happen too quick but good to try once or twice and cross off the list. I think around 130 is a really good speed, most civilised countries seem to agree. I had an auto Pathfinder in the NT when unrestricted and it wouldn't go over 160, it kept kicking back a gear if I put the foot down. Back a few years it used to be strange crossing the border from NT to SA and having to do 110 after punching it out a bit, it felt like you could get out and run faster.

Umm, any idea on how much fuel you were using.
Just a matter of interest as I believe in realistic speed and certainly not having a go.

Honky

When I rode around Oz in 2004 I don't think the NT even had a Highway Patrol they did in 2007

Getting away from the subject but the video below shows just how easy modern Euro type diesels do this.Interesting the revs never get over about 3700 and top gear is 200klph.I have a current XR6 and it would run out off steam trying to keep up with my Jeep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6-Ajpy5TJs

Elvin

I think this is nuts, as is the NT cowboy stuff about speed limits. I was much more interested looking at your photo of the road condition at the side of the road than the road surface. In Europe and places with very high speed stretches you drive on roads with wide, smooth run off areas at the sides. Plus most of those roads are fenced off so nothing can wander on to the road. In the nt, things sure wander and hop onto the road. At those speeds, diverge a little to miss, even as a reflex, and you are into that rough stuff at the side with one lot of wheels. In a higher centre of gravity 4wd, you chances of a roll over are high. In a lot of spots its much worse along the Stuart because the shoulder is a real ridge, unlike the section you have shown. Catch the edge of you tyre in that at high speed and you are toast. Of course, you may be the sort of driver who doesn't make mistakes like that, but those roads aren't the multi lane divided highways of Europe. They are too narrow to allow you to miss the bloke coming the other way who loses it for any of the above reasons. And they do. The number of tourists using those roads in rented 4wds who have never driven on anything apart from European roads is high. 4wd rollovers with tourists are all too common.
High speed in itself doesn't bother me, on roads made for it. But NT roads sure aren't made for it. It's just another exercise in NT chest puffing and testosterone.

Discussion on this section of road tends to focus on the speed at which you can travel, and the potential benefits it brings, little, if any, is given to how fast you can stop a vehicle.

I once worked with Michael Hawker, the great former Australian Wallaby, whose philosophy on risk management came down to there being nothing wrong with driving fast cars, just as long as you have the brakes and capability to stop it when something unforeseen happens – it was great advice that has resonated for me on many occasions in both my professional and personal life!

Stopping time needs to take account of a few things, but most importantly, the time it takes the driver to perceive or see a potential hazard, the time it takes for the driver to respond, both of which can be affected by the length of time the driver has spent behind the wheel, fatigue, or maybe even the presence of alcohol in the system.

Speed and alcohol have partnered in the deaths of many on our roads, especially in country areas.

Beyond these two factors is the vehicles ability to respond to the driver inputs, the braking capability of the vehicle and condition of the braking system, how good are the brake pads, and when was the system last serviced.

It has been estimated that these four factors alone can use anywhere between 2-4 seconds in time, at 100 kilometres per hour this equates to anywhere between 50-100 metres of vehicle travel.

And this is before giving consideration to the tyres on the vehicle, whether they are suitable for high speed travel, and in a condition that is optimal for the task.

Consider two vehicles travelling on this road, in opposite directions, both travelling at a speed of up to 200 kilometres per hour; a closing speed of 400-kilometres per hour, or broken down into metres per second, a closing speed of around 110 metres/second – one football field per second for those that are familiar with a Rugby field !

Once you start to add in the response time of the drive to react to a potential hazard and ability of the vehicle to respond to inputs from the driver, the distance closed can be upwards of 400-metres, plus the distance it then takes to stop both vehicles at this speed.

And it is important to remember that the braking capability of a vehicle does not increase with the speed of the vehicle, so if you go from 100 kilometres per hour to 200 kilometres per hour, or two times the speed, the braking distance required is quadrupled – this is basic physics.

The section of road in question has a single lane only in either direction, so there is the possibility of either driver being on the wrong side of the road, at any time, as it passes slower vehicles.

If you were racing cars on a race track, with all vehicles going the same direction, you would be required to undertake specific training prior to being allowed to participate. Are we comfortable with the “lowest common denominator driver” on this unlimited speed road to be equipped to travel at high speed?

If a poll was conducted on how people rated their own driving ability I’m guessing not many would be in the “poor” category, most would be in the “good” category – we all tend to overestimate our ability.

Reading some of the feedback both here, and elsewhere, it seems this road has attracted many simply to “test” their vehicle at speed. But why not do that on a race track if that is your interest?

And whilst a Nissan Patrol may be capable of travel at the speed indicated, it is doubtful that Nissan manufactured the four-wheel drive vehicle with the intention it would travel regularly at these speeds, especially if loaded for touring…

Porsche and other high performance car manufacturers’ do, and they have the appropriate equipment to ensure the vehicle can do it safely – the driver is another issue altogether.

My only experience on this section of road was in July this year, when I was overtaken by a large RV that based on my own speed and perception was travelling at around 130-kilometres per hour. The driver was all over the place, and over the centre line at times, for whatever reason. Perhaps he was drinking a coffee or trying to light a fag, or simply, the vehicle didn’t handle well at those speeds.

But it left me wondering why anyone in an RV, or on holidays would actually find themselves with a need to travel at these speeds anyway.

Each to their own, if it can be done safely, and that is a big “if”, but for me I’ll take my time to enjoy the scenery at a more leisurely pace…

Cheers, Baz – The Landy

G'day Robin, I have followed this post with interest, & find myself agreeing with many
points raised re the safety issues that may arise due to having no speed limit.
I would be most interested to see a list of the upsides you suggest exist so that I may
form a more balanced judgement. At this point I feel your premise that 160 kph + in
a heavily loaded 4wd wagon on a single lane road (unfenced ?) poses no increased safety threat to you or other road users is not quite cutting the mustard. But I am more than willing to take into consideration the perceived advantages as well, &
perhaps my current mindset will change as a result...cheers....oldbaz.

G'day Robin,

Good post, but you didn't call in for a Cuppa?

I travel between Alice & Tennant regularly, my personal best so far is 3 1/2 hours, that's an average speed of just over 144 km/h, my 70 series tops out at 160 km/h so no record speeds there.

A "normal" trip to Alice is usually around 4 to 4 1/2 hours, problem is that I use around 135 liters of diesel to do it, most travelers can't afford the fuel burn at relative high speeds so most travel at a comfortable 110 to 120 km/h.

I would like a device where you guys put an emitter in your car and I put a receiver in my car and my car detects when your car is 5km away so I can get the hell off the road and let you past. Life is too precious. ;-)
cheers
Kevin

Robin talking about the NT speed limit, coming back from the Finke Desert Race this year I sat on 130-140 from Alice Springs to the SA boarder...... one thing I did notice was I found it harder to site on 110, more tiring and distracting.

Yes speed limits are a funny theory.

They have just launched a new ad here in SA and I believe it has aired in other states where they say to drive slower and you will have more of a chance to avoid an accident.

Here is the ad....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvLaTupw-hk

The issue I have with this and speed limits is not all accidents happen at that same speed or distance so the out come is different.

If a vehicle (A) is travelling at 130kph (speeding) and a vehicle (B) on a side road pulls out 150m in front of vehicle (A) is it going to have a better or worse outcome compared to a vehicle (A) doing 100kph (speed limit) and a vehicle (B) on a side road pulls out 550m in front of vehicle (A).

If the distance between vehicle (A) and vehicle (B) was a constant then yes they can argue speed will make a difference but seeing in all accident distance is a variable there argument is incorrect and in general they are miss leading the public.

Again here we see another ad saying the guy who failed to give way was the good guy and the speeding driver was the bad guy.

Yes speeding makes them money.

They do the same with the tobacco and alcohol....... tell you how bad it is but if everyone was to stop the government would loos an important income stream.

As for mind conditioning.... yes it starts at a very early age.

Yep Oldbaz , Robin did admitted to doing 160 kph, in a heavily laden 4wd , so what I say , it was probably a one time only thing , a quick squirt for 1 or 2K's

Like I said before I took my bike out to that section of road back in May this year , I checked the road waited for any on coming traffic to clear ,

I would of made Robin look like he was standing still , doesn't mean I would travel at that speed for the full length of that open section .

Jacko

The "Speeding up to reduce accidents" statement cannot be used as a stand-alone argument to validate the argument for much higher highway speed limits, or unlimited highway speeds.

The only place where that statement has validity, is when there is a slow driver in amongst a large majority of drivers doing higher speeds.

The Solomon Curve was validated many decades ago, and proves up what I said in my post above - above the danger of serious disparity in road user speeds, being a major factor in providing an elevated level of crash risk.

The Solomon Curve

Robin

An interesting topic and given the NT government has extended the distance the unlimited speed is permitted on gives some indication of where this will settle. Mind you, it was an election promise, so the issue is politicised. And rationale often goes out the window when issues are politicised.

But putting that aside…

Given this is essentially a “risk management” exercise it is important that the negatives are highlighted, discussed and debated. Risk management is all about understanding the risks (negatives) looking at what risk can be mitigated, and concluding whether the residual risk is balanced appropriately against the rewards (the positives).

Much has been written about driver’s concentrating more at higher speeds and higher speeds reducing driving times with a subsequent conclusion that it is safer. This has been put forward as an argument for higher speed limits on the Hume Highway between Sydney and Melbourne for example, and it has some merit.

However, what is often lacking in that discussion is the relationship between higher levels of concentration and the earlier onset of fatigue; I’m confident studies will demonstrate that relationship. How can that be managed in the context of an unlimited speed road?

Whilst I have focussed on increased speeds increasing the risk, especially on this section of road for the reasons outlined, I think the real problem that causes accidents on our rural roads in Australia is three-fold.

Constant speed (regardless of the speed)
Monotony, and
Fatigue.

The only real solution to this is regular rests on long-drives. The government and operators of heavy vehicles recognise this and is the primary reason for having laws to regulate it.

Ultimately, we are talking about a limited section of road in the Northern Territory. It is most unlikely we will see unlimited speed zones appearing across Australia, as the risk/reward equation won’t stack up in most places.

Territorians appear to be supportive of this initiative given the long distances between centres and the NT Government is clearly sympathetic so I suspect the “trial” will roll into a permanent change.

Hopefully the road doesn’t turn into a tourist attraction that simply attracts people to “give their vehicles a go” there are other avenues where that can be pursued…

And closing, I suspect like other posters have highlighted, that most will approach this sensibly – at least we can only hope for that!

All good food for thought…

Cheers, Baz – The Landy

I dare say a part of the difference is that similar roads in Victoria would carry more traffic, more likely to have driveways or other road users - it is not just the smoothness of the bitumen surface or the straightness of the road that determines what is or isn't a safe speed for any given stretch of road.

At the risk of being accused of provocation, I'd say your reaction suggests, not so much a brainwashing by the system into compliance, but a tendency to drive with a continual guilty conscience caused by a habit of NON-compliance. A driver who complies with speed limits has no need to even back off the accelerator (much less think about using the brakes) at the mere sight of a law enforcement officer.