Native Title Rights for Fraser Island

I know exactly where you are coming from Ron. 20 years in rural NT has opened my eyes to what is really happening.

However we must also remember that the old white man has dug his own grave in many areas. Any private land you need permission. White man has taught aboriginal people the value of a dollar and how greed is the norm nowadays. I have been ripped off , constantly, by white men. Mechanics, telecom companies, electrical companies, councils, state and federal govts, manipulating grocery supermarkets, etc.etc. Do you know how much land and resources the WA govt has stolen from aboriginal people? Absolutely criminal how it acts. Some areas may be closed to Fraser Island..wonder how many dingos had to be shot 50 years ago? Given enough time white fella will ruin Fraser Island. I see some sneaky, underhanded deals done to continue sand mining for another 20+ years!!
The black fella is only doing what the smart white fella taught him!!!

Don't you just love modern man and his morals?

cheers

Sand mining ceased on Fraser Island in 1976.
Timber logging ceased in 1991.

Your right Allan B. My fault for not clarifying. Another area where sand mining has been opposed and where locals were hoping for a finish was sneakily granted a longer term to continue. Just pointing out how business greed over rules community wishes. The aboriginals for decades have been trying to get land rights sorted on Fraser island.
I suspect they will model their business on our models...you wont always get what you pay for but you will pay for everything!!

Helluva lot of supposition there Ron. Fairly blinkered in my opinion - try seeing it from their perspective. Don't hold your breath waiting for Aboriginal claims to country being supplanted by another mysterious forerunner though. Aboriginal history in this country is pretty well established across the land and that's what the Native Title Act recognises. Nothing is black and white in life, and finding fault in any culture is easy. Multinational mining companies anyone?

Maybe this will tell the story. Eyes wide shut some of you.

In 1860 the whole of Fraser Island was gazetted as an Aboriginal Reserve but this was soon rescinded in 1863 and shrunk to include only the central section of the island after commercial timber-getting began. When timber getters wanted to log this Reserve in 1905, almost all of the remaining Aborigines were removed from the island.
In 1870 the Sandy Cape light station was erected. There was a significant resident population living near the station when Miss Serena Lovell was teaching there in 1891. In 1872 Rev Fuller established a mission at Ballargan but this was closed down within two years so the government could convert the Mission site to a Quarantine station for ships bringing miners to the goldfield. With the gold rush ended by 1897 the Government briefly revived Ballargan.
On Good Friday 1897 Aborigines drove off a party of Maryborough excursionists who claimed that the beach had been “a favourite resort for pleasure parties for over twenty years” and a popular “watering place since before Queensland got separation”. A public protest meeting in Maryborough drew 300 to 400 people. Within months, parochial pressure caused the mission to be shifted to a less desirable site at Bogimbah Creek.
At Bogimbah Creek Settlement Aborigines lived in conditions comparable with the Jewish concentration camps of World War II. Over a hundred died of malnutrition, dysentery, syphilis, influenza and tuberculosis. Anglican missionaries took over the Mestons’ State control in February 1900 but in 1904 they abandoned the Bogimbah Creek mission. Rather than release remaining inmates, 117 were tricked and taken to Yarrabah near Cairns. Others were sent to Woodford and then to Cherbourg. Out of more than 2,000 Fraser Island Aborigines fifty years earlier, only a handful escaped. This tragedy prompted one Maryborough resident of the time to write an “enraged memorial”. “Isn't this one of the blackest pages in the history of the British Empire?”

Yes these types of events are not a proud moment in our history but just the same we are judging them out of context in today's world
I am all for conciliation but giving land back like this be it right or wrong still polarises the community with the "us and them " underlying tones.
I am not sure how this form of compensation brings the community together so we can move forward together

Have you got a reference to that Central Coast deal Gronk? Not suggesting it's not true but I'd like to read more about it. Almost always FAR more to most stories than you'll read in a paper - especially a Murdoch rag as most seem to be.

Do some research on the native title claim for North Entrance....since sold and now known as Magenta Shores.

Garanganda Land council have done a similar thing in southern Sydney
They put in native land claims on selected tracks of land and then subdivide and sell off as residential home sites to the general public
I have witnessed this first hand

Thanks, Ill do that.

NOW its profesionally run - it couldnt make money until management was outsourced
its managed by whitefellas and run by backpackers now.
and when that local guide stops doing the tours theres no one to take his spot - none of the youngfellas think its worthwhile making money for him to train

Hey Baz,
If you take the track to Lake Allom that leaves the beach roughly near The Maheno Wreck somewhere from memory, there's been an aboriginal community living there for years.

I first travelled that track in1979, rumpig, using a forestry map.

They weren't there then.

Thanks Rumpig. Was out that way late July did not see any evidence of a community then. Makes me wonder what they live on. Have not seen any fishing on the east or west. Hopefully they're eating dingoes

I have no idea when they moved into that location George_M but it would be interesting to know out of curiosity if anyone else has that information in their memory banks. Baz mentioned he'd never seen any on the island, yet they've been there for a short while atleast that i know of. It's not something that's happened in the last year or 2 either, they were there 5 or 6 years back from my memory and likely much earlier then that. I vaguely recall relatives mentioning something about aboriginals living at the old Orchid Beach Resort on the island for a while also, i don't have first hand knowledge of that, just i have heard it mentioned a few times by relatives and friends over the years.

Apologies rumpig, a typo in my first post. My first trip to Lake Allom was in 1969, not 1979. No aboriginal people living there then. None at the timber camp at Central Station, and none at the sand mining operations a bit further south of Eurong.

The "old" resort at Orchid Rocks was in operation at that time. No aboriginal people in that area either.

George_M

Don't like the subtext of the posts but it could have something to do with the "forced removal" mentioned in the ABC report perhaps? I'm sure the Fed Court looked at the claims in detail and I can't speak for others but I'd put their investigations and determinations a long way in front of some anecdotal observations by occasional visitors.

I will add it to this discussion as well.

Maybe this will tell the story. Eyes wide shut some of you.

In 1860 the whole of Fraser Island was gazetted as an Aboriginal Reserve but this was soon rescinded in 1863 and shrunk to include only the central section of the island after commercial timber-getting began. When timber getters wanted to log this Reserve in 1905, almost all of the remaining Aborigines were removed from the island.
In 1870 the Sandy Cape light station was erected. There was a significant resident population living near the station when Miss Serena Lovell was teaching there in 1891. In 1872 Rev Fuller established a mission at Ballargan but this was closed down within two years so the government could convert the Mission site to a Quarantine station for ships bringing miners to the goldfield. With the gold rush ended by 1897 the Government briefly revived Ballargan.
On Good Friday 1897 Aborigines drove off a party of Maryborough excursionists who claimed that the beach had been “a favourite resort for pleasure parties for over twenty years” and a popular “watering place since before Queensland got separation”. A public protest meeting in Maryborough drew 300 to 400 people. Within months, parochial pressure caused the mission to be shifted to a less desirable site at Bogimbah Creek.
At Bogimbah Creek Settlement Aborigines lived in conditions comparable with the Jewish concentration camps of World War II. Over a hundred died of malnutrition, dysentery, syphilis, influenza and tuberculosis. Anglican missionaries took over the Mestons’ State control in February 1900 but in 1904 they abandoned the Bogimbah Creek mission. Rather than release remaining inmates, 117 were tricked and taken to Yarrabah near Cairns. Others were sent to Woodford and then to Cherbourg. Out of more than 2,000 Fraser Island Aborigines fifty years earlier, only a handful escaped. This tragedy prompted one Maryborough resident of the time to write an “enraged memorial”. “Isn't this one of the blackest pages in the history of the British Empire?”

Here's part of the judgement dealing with that issue broadly:

51 Second, Dr Sackett had earlier observed in his report that descendants of a number of apical ancestors had maintained little or no physical connection with the area of the claims, whereas descendants of other apicals had maintained relatively solid physical connection to the area of claims (in particular the descendants of Garry Owens and Willy Wondunna). The dislocation of some Butchulla people from their country resulted from a number of causes including:

the settlement of non-Aborigines in the area beginning in the 1840s, accompanied by increasing competition for resources and violence between indigenous and non-indigenous people;

the gradual incorporation of the local population into the pastoral and timber industries as unskilled labour;

the establishment of a mission on Fraser Island in 1897;

the removal of many local indigenous people to Yarrabah in 1904 as well as other removals (paragraph 996).

52 In light of this dislocation Dr Sackett opined that it was not surprising that relatively few members of the Butchulla People had been able to maintain ongoing physical connection with their country.

53 Overall, however, Dr Sackett was satisfied that fundamental laws and customs continued to be acknowledged by Butchulla claimants, which meant that crucial aspects of Butchulla society were transmitted from generation to generation.

Good read Slow one. Typical of many areas that the white man wanted. He arrogantly went ahead and grabbed what he needed to make him a quid. Still occurs nowadays with mining and gas reserves.
A good read is 'Blood on the Wattle"......may open your eyes a little to just what an ar$#*&@" the white man can be. It gives a glimpse of how we treated (and still do) aboriginals. Could have been a lot better book with actual interviews and some more info. However it gets its point across.

rumpig, I have stayed at Orchid beach resort for a lot of the 1970's & been on FI a lot since & still havn't noticed any aboriginals there at any time although now you can't only tell by the colour of their skin. I hope it won't change from the way it is today as most? people seem happy with sharing the way it is. I have also water skiid on the freshwater lakes as there were commercial operators then, very few cars on the island, we used to fly in & land on the crude golf course next to the resort, we used to hire fergy tractors to get around the island, the resort would pack a beaut bbq for us to take with us on the back of the tractors, one was called the "tucked fractor" & there was a cartoon drawing & story on the wall in the resort explaining the how the tractor got it's name! The pool was broken then. I have boxes of photo's & home movies of Fraser Island in the early day's, hoo roo

I'm sure if anyone is really interested/keen they could track down the detailed rulings and submissions on every native title grant ever made in this country. Be a pita to wade through it all but it would answer your question to some degree Olcoolone. There's always some debate about the connections and descendencies and there might be some myths and errors involved - perhaps some leaps of faith even - but if there's a better way to resolve claims I'm sure many people would be interested in pursuing it.

A lot of Federal Court judgements (not the full evidence altough that would be published somewhere - austlii maybe?) are online. This one is here: Fraser Island/K'gari

"Yes it is sad when one born here can not travel freely in their own country."

Wind the statement back 200 years and it takes on a completely different context.

For the most part, Australian's from all backgrounds get to travel relatively freely in this great country...

"Wind the statement back 200 years and it takes on a completely different context."

For sure but in another 200 years are we going to be the ones fighting for the use of the land we were born in.....

You have to put the past behind you as like most places on this earth there were conflicts whereby one country would overtake another to rule....... and it is still going on today.

So in another 20 years when all the elders who have an active interest in their culture and heritage have passed and then what..... it gets handed down to a generation who don't give a damn about their culture and heritage unless it involves so coin.

Yes native title was a good idea but now like so many things do gooders do; it starts to erode the original issues, concept and why something is put in place.

Go back 60-100 years and the do gooders at the churches screwed thing up big time with how they thought and dealt with the aboriginal people....... on to find out in the future the damage they actually did...... but like any story in time it's hard to say if it was the right decision s made or not for the time.

As with the churches who made the wrong decisions 60-100 years ago that they thought were right for the time ...... are we going to look back in 60-100 years time and say "what did we do, we got it all wrong..... again"

As I said above I have the up most respect for the aborigines and what was done to them looking back now was wrong but this rift that was around 60-200 years ago is starting all over again and it is getting back to "us" and "them" all over again.

Common rights for all cultures should be the same here in Australia.

Yes I have seen first hand what rights in the wrong hands do for farmers, property owners and developments.

The ones who win are the lawyers.

It is a very complex issue without doubt, and one that extends well beyond land rights.

The problem in calling for equality is that for the most part, that is simply code for we want access to your land. What about equality in healthcare, living standards, as a starter.

I’m not intending to provoke, because this is not something that will easily be resolved, but I simply highlight that if we are calling for equality how do we ensure that aboriginal people get that in broader terms?

olcoolone

"Common rights for all cultures should be the same here in Australia."

This statement is the key here, permits exist on aboriginal land for one purpose, it is to protect their culture and their rights.

You have the right to prevent people onto you property, by means of trespass laws.

Most permits are easily obtained giving you the right to pass through their property with simple rules that apply.

As for Fraser Island, I will never go back because the white people have stuffed it up, rude insolent people that live and work there, the black fellas certainly couldn't do any worse.

Yes understand that Steve.....and most are good but I have seen over the years areas that have been handed back turn to junk and I have also seen the infighting that occurs between all stake holders.

Trespassing law is a complecated act and in some instances it does not give the land holder permissin to restrict access.

Time will tell.

And you have highlighted why most white australians have a negative view of aboriginals........we haven't had much to do with them....BUT the ones we have seen and heard about are the ones that tar the rest of them.

Most people only see what you see when you drive through a country town ( try Katherine )....not the decent ones who live and keep to themselves.

This perception is hard to erase if that's all you ever see.

Most? I doubt it Grank but maybe I move in different circles to you. A certain demographic stereotypes everyone different to themselves and knows little more than what headlines and anecdotes - from similarly minded people usually - tell them about many important topics. They will almost always see what they want to see. Lack of time and real interest rather than malice or chosen ignorance colours many Aussies' views but when they get exposed to a different viewpoint, do some research or best of all have a related experience they often mellow. Unsurprising. Knowledge is a powerful thing, as are understanding and empathy.