GPS. tablet

I have this one:
Samsung Galaxy Tab Pro WiFi 8.4", also known as SM-T320

It has a very good GPS, it even works indoors in my place (tile roof).
I'm using ozi explorer on it.
V8troopie

But the Samsung Galaxy 10.1 only works with the GPS if you have internet connection, once out of range of internet it is useless.

Not sure where you got that idea Rosss. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The Galaxy 10.1 GPS will work anywhere in the world, with or without an internet connection.

You can even use it without it ever having being connected to an internet service.

Well nothing could be further from the truth than your post, we have a Samsung Galaxy 10.1 and the GPS will not work without an internet connection. We are very disappointed with it as we bought it to do this and it won't.

Rosss I suggest you read the manual.

I guarantee that it will 100%, definitely, without doubt, totally, without fail, reliably, indubitably work anywhere on the face of the earth with or without phone reception.

And just to make sure it is really really really capable of running GPS anywhere it runs both GPS, AND Glonass.

Wrong, doesn't happen

Ok I am going to try to help you here Rosss.

Do you mean an app called google maps doesn't work or the Samsung doesn't work.

Of course google maps won't work without phone reception because it gets it's data from the internet it is an on line GPS app.

But have you tried any of the literally tens of thousands of non internet based GPS apps?

Try say Memory Map or Oziexplorer which are off line Raster map gps apps.

It categorically does work without the internet / phone. You just don't know how to do it I am afraid.

Open your mind, and shut your mouth, and you may learn something.

GPS means Global Positioning System.

The "internet GPS" isn't real GPS because it isn't global.

However it is marketed as GPS and is very confusing for those who don't know. It has another term - A-GPS for Assisted GPS.

I cannot do better than Wikipaedia.

If a device has a satellite GPS chipset in it, it doesn't NEED a phone connection but the app using the inbuilt GPS may use it to enhance performance. But it WILL work outside phone coverage.

A device without a satellite GPS chipset, with the right app, can use the phone/internet to provide a GPS like function. But it WILL NOT work outside phone coverage.

Cheers

I'm willing to listen and learn, but up until now no-one has been able to make this tablet work the way you say it should, not even the people at Telstra were we got it from. I bought it to put Ozi on it but we tried it with Co-Pilot (it was free) to learn how to use it before we bought Ozi or any of the other ones, but when it wouldn't work without internet we didn't bother. If someone could make it work I would be happy, because then I won't have to send hundreds on the likes of a HEMA 7

Ok lets give it a go.

Firstly, hopefully you have a google play account. We will try a free app or two to prove the gps works. Then get a free mapping program.

Firstly you need to understand that the Samsung's GPS has nothing to do with the internet. It uses satellites and is stand alone. It can calculate the location, height, speed, direction of travel and north ( if you are moving).

Some apps, like Google maps, or the Hema Android app use this base information then go to the internet to get the maps surrounding your location to draw a picture or calculate a route. These apps do need the internet and a phone connection. Very little mapping data is stored on the device because the app goes and gets it from a big database when it needs it. These apps as you have noticed are great around town but useless away from phone coverage.

Other apps, like Oziexplorer, and Memory Map store pre loaded maps in the memory of the device and then use the GPS derived location to get the right map from memory and display it. These are what you need for off road work or sea navigation.

1)Make sure location services, including the GPS is turned on.
2)While you have wifi coverage, go to google play and get and app called GPS test. Install it and check that you can see around 10 - 12 satellites. You should also see your location. ( Note it does also have a sun / moon page that probably needs the internet for that bit.)
3)Remove your SIM or turn mobile data off, turn off Wifi and go for a wander outside. It should know where you are.
4)Turn the internet on again and use wifi. Download an app called memory-map from Google Play. It is free.
5)Follow the instructions here and set up an account.
6)Memory map can work in off line mode or on line mode. ( the only difference is you can bulk download maps into your Samsung in one go, or it will do it in chunks depending on where you tell it to do so.)
We will bulk download to show how it works.
Also some maps are free including the Austopo 250 which is an excellent map with nearly every track in Australia, others are paid such as Hema, EO topo, Vic topo 25k, NSW topo 25K, marine maps, etc etc. You can download these and try them free for 10 days 9 except EO topo which is 3 days.
7)set up an account, do it on the memory Map app (menu>settings>Map licences.)
8)Also log in ( or set it up ) from your PC here
9)go here and download the 2 Austopo files to your computer. Then connect your Samsung with the USB to your computer and browse with file explorer for download>Memory Map in the Samsung. Put the 2 files there.
10)disconnect the Samsung and fire up memory Map. You should see the map. There is a target symbol for gps tracking. Go outside and walk around. Turn wifi and phone reception off and it will still work.
Then you can trial any of the other maps.

Good luck.

Ross,

If they sold you a device with only A-GPS and you asked for GPS, then they have mis-represented the product.

The situation is not helped by well-meaning but uninformed sales staff.

I believe you have some recourse if you want to go through the process.

Up to you. How long have you had it.

Cheers

Frank P said:


Woah, slow down. Ross definitely DOES want an AGPS.

This is not well understood. A 'GPS' will work without internet. An 'AGPS' or 'Assisted GPS' also uses the phone towers or wifi - IF AVAILABLE to speed up the GPS acquisition process ( or to allow it to work indoors). It assists by giving the GPS a rough idea of where it is, speeding up the time to find the real, accurate location with the GPS. It might take 5 seconds instead of 30 - 500 seconds without it to get a GPS fix.

AGPS is in every way better than stand alone GPS, and in no way inferior. These days every device that has both GPS and a phone connection will have AGPS. If there is no phone or internet then it simply acts as a GPS.

Ross has the right device for off road, GPS mapping with or without internet connectivity if he gets the right app or apps.

Errgh - no edit on this site drives me nuts.

I mean Frank P said:


then what I said.

I don't know why but this site won't let me copy and paste previous posts even though they appear in the editor. Apologies, but posting on this forum is hard work

"Woah, slow down. Ross definitely DOES want an AGPS. "

Yes, I agree, he does, but not just AGPS by itself, which a number of lower cost devices have. When I bought my wife's tablet, Samsung had some tablets with only AGPS and some with satellite GPS. That was a couple of years ago. I don't know what is available now and I don't know what the OP has.

The key words in your follow-up are IF AVAILABLE. If there is no WiFi or phone coverage a built-in satellite GPS will still work. A device with AGPS only won't.

I was trying to say that if he bought a tablet because he was told it had GPS and it turns out it had ONLY AGPS, the I think he has some recourse.

We are on the same page.

Cheers

"and some with satellite GPS"

Aaaarrrrggghhh! Should read "and some with satellite GPS *and* AGPS"

Sorry Frank but there is enough confusion on this.

An AGPS is a GPS that is also assisted by the internet and or phone towers. You don't need an AGPS and a GPS.

The GPS is Assisted.

Thanks for the lesson, it has never been explained to me like that before, looks like I have some playing to do in the next few days to sort it out.

"Sorry Frank but there is enough confusion on this."

I agree, Boobook. It's time to agree to disagree.

An email discussion, perhaps? PM me with an address if you're interested.

Cheers and thanks for the input.

Good luck Ross, the other thing you can do is get the trial version of Oziexplorer. It comes with a world map so it is hard to see yourself moving around but it till also work off line.

I did a little research last night and found that what I had had described to me as A-GPS by a person who should know better was just simple triangulation from phone towers, perhaps enhanced analysis of signal strength. According to one source, A-GPS and triangulation are often confused as being one and the same.

They are not. A-GPS is as Boobook described.

I hope the OP can evaluate this discussion with a bit more confidence now.

Cheers

It is bloody confusing Frank. There are actually lots of websites out there that are incorrect. It is no wonder people get confused.

There are 2 main modes of AGPS, one basically triangulates from the phone towers and the other uses an IP Geolocater service from the ADSL or cable internet service. Either, or both then help the real GPS get an approximate bearing to speed up a fix. They are good if you are indoors or can't otherwise get a GPS signal too.

Yes, my phone and tablet are much faster to first fix with their A-GPS than my Magellan Explorist 600 without. The phone and tablet can do it inside our house, the Magellan has to go outdoors to get the fix, but will then maintain it inside.

I read about another mode last night, where cell towers obtain GPS data, almanac, etc and use the MMS system as a carrier to get the compressed info to the device. Was a US site, kept talking about Sprint, so maybe that system is not used in Aus.

Or maybe it is, I don't know.

As an aside, with Google's Location Services selected ON in Android's Settings menu, and GPS OFF, my Samsung S2 phone (Android 4.1.2) found my house, exactly, in Google Maps. My tablet (Samsung GT-P6800 Android 4.0.4) only found the nearest tower, about 1km away.

The fact that the phone can get that close with no real GPS is amazing when you think about it.

Cheers

Frank now you have touched on how it all gets scary.

Google ( and Apple and others) continually gets location information from your phone. It matches GPS locations with the IP address of your home Wifi network. So after the first time you connect, it knows where you are when connected to your home network - even if you subsequently turn the GPS off.

Take a look at this

Now it gets even scarier. Want to know where you were and went on the 5th of April 2012 for example?

If you are logged into your google account Check where you have been ever since you had your phone

Apple does the same.

When you first turn on your location services, you give Google ( apple etc) permission to track you. Scary Huh?

I forgot to mention that the location history for any particular day works if the phone finds a wifi or phone service at least once for that day. If not, that day's tracking is blank.

If you rob a bank, best to leave your phone home besides the TV LOL

It IS scary, Boobook. I switch off Google's location services for that very reason. My family and friends can track me with a much less invasive Spot.

If you follow a few links, you find their Streetview cars have also captured WiFi SSIDs, unencrypted passwords, MAC addresses and other stuff that can compromise security and privacy.

The US and Europe seem to have better protection for their populations than we do. Over there Google has been told where to go, but not here in Aus AFAIK.

Cheers

sorry Boobook is %100 correct
you definitly need no network or internet to get the GPS to work
many people when right out bush to save power turn thier tablet/phone to flight mode and they still work %100

get outmore,

If you're referring to my input, I never disputed that. Always agreed.

Not quite.

Any tablet that uses Android's Kit Kat release, eg most recent Samsungs can't write to the SD card. It is a new security feature that Google put in version 4.4

This created an issue compared to previous versions of Android such that you can not write data to the SD from the App in some circumstances.

Unfortunately Oziexplorer won't let you store maps on the SD card so you have to use the main memory which will quickly get full. Other programs like Memory Map will let you store maps on the SD card then read those maps, getting over the issue.

You have a decision point if you intend to use a few maps and other things like movies etc.
a)Get at least 64G of memory on the unit and don't use the SD card and use Ozi
b)use Memory Map and load the maps on your PC
c)look for other mapping apps that use th ememory better than Ozi.
d)don't have too many maps and other data.

Erghh no edit on this site.

Maybe that's why the new posts are down to 10 - 20 a day from 50 - 100 a few years a go.

Boobook,

Are you saying that Ozi's restriction on maps and writing to the SD card are only present if you're running the latest version of Android?

I'm running Ozi on a Samsung 7.7 tablet (GT-P6800) with Android 4.0.4 and a 32GB external SD

All my Ozi maps (16GB) are on the external SD card and so is Ozi's data file, which it writes to all the time. I would hate it to be any other way.

Cheers

Hi again Boobook,

I've answered the first question myself - just looked at the Ozi site. I wonder what the security issue was that made it worth Google's almost crippling the flexibility of the OS.

But the Ozi site makes no mention of not being able to store maps on the SD card. Just that it cannot write there. That suggests to me you can have your maps on the SD card, but you have to set the data path to internal memory.

Having just data stored in internal memory shouldn't tax the system too much, I wouldn't think. I have 32GB of maps on the SD and I use Ozi a lot. My data folder is only 28MB.

Cheers

Hi Frank P,

Quick question, do you store all your maps on the external HD, and then save them back there once you have added track or info onto them?

I am looking at buying a Samsung for my hubby for xmas. The set up we run currently involve a very small touch screen (which is difficult to use) and this is connected to a laptop hidden away in the vehicle and we use an external GPS.
We run ozi, and I am considering using the new android one they have just released (when I find out a bit more about it)

Any thoughts or advice appreciated

Cheers
Annie

Duh sorry just read again and saw that you are using an SD card!!

Have you heard of anyone using a HD? Or is it just another thing to cart around and find space for?

Hi Annie,

If you mean using an external HD on a tablet, I don't think you can.

You can certainly use an external HD on a laptop to run Ozi if you want to.

Cheers

You can use a USB Hard Disks ( like the WD passport for example) on Android tablets. The only restriction is the power. Either the device needs to be externally powered or it has to use less power than the tablet can supply, usually 500mA.

A better solution though is to get a USB stick. You can get 256GB or more in a small profile.

On Ozi, I deleted mine a while back because it kept freezing but I reall it only has one directory, if that is right then it couldn't store tracks etc if you use the SD card.

I have about 60G of maps and offline google earth so it would be a major problem for me.

Thanks Frank and Boobook,


Yeah true forgot about the power thing that would be a problem.

The USB is probably the go, light and easy to store too. Was thinking about putting some maps on a stick with oziexplorer taking to shop and test it out?

What about mounts for the devices, are the shop ones ok or are we better to make one ourselves? We have seen windscreen suction mounts and my worry is do they stick well enough when you are rattling down a corrugated dirt track?

What are peoples experiences with these things?

Boobook,

Thanks for the info on ext HDD and Android devices. I have WD Passport, so might give it a shot just for fun.

"On Ozi, ... I recall it only has one directory, if that is right then it couldn't store tracks etc if you use the SD card."

You can control where maps and data files reside. You can do each separately - you are not limited to the default directory. Access via Main Menu/Configuration/General Settings. There are two file path buttons there, one for maps, one for data.

Annie M,

By all means use a USB stick for testing while you're shopping. If you test a new device, though, I think you'll have to install Ozi on the device, I don't think you can plug in the stick and just run it straight off. You could do the same with an SD, with the same restriction.

Happy to be corrected on that. Boobook?

Also, if the device is loaded with the new Android version, you will have to tweak the data file path as above and set it somewhere in device memory.

Personally, I wouldn't use a USB stick in a tablet if I could avoid it. It will be sticking out the side of the device and prone to knocks and bumps. Not such a big deal for a laptop which because of weight and size is usually less "mobile" than a tablet. Also, the stick may interfere with whatever mounting system you choose. Up to you but I wouldn't do it unless I had huge amounts of data like Boobook.

You can get 64G micro SDs just about anywhere ($$) and Sandisk make a 128G micro. Probably lots of $$$.

Mounts - google RAM mounts. For my 7.7 inch tablet I have a floor mount with a brace half way up to stop wobbling. Probably not steady enough for a larger tablet, so a windscreen mount might be better. A mate made a DIY for his iPad. It hung over the front of the dash, which carried the weight and kept it steady. It was fastened in place with a windscreen sucker which didn't take any weight, just located the thing. Worked well.

Cheers

Thanks Frank P,

Do you know if you can connect an external GPS to the Samsung Galaxy?

Annie M,

Yes, you can use a bluetooth remote GPS on an Android tablet. I've done it just for fun with an old GPS - works fine with Ozi. But other than cost, why would you want to - oh, I see you already have an external GPS. Yes, that will keep the cost down and broaden your choice of tablets.

The Samsung built-in GPS is a gem, well it is on both my phone and my tablet. Uses both US and Russian (GLONASS) systems. Very quick to lock on, very accurate.

Cheers

So when you say an

"I've done it just for fun with an old GPS"

Are you connecting with a cable or Bluetooth?

Bluetooth.

Thank You for your help.

Things are a lot clearer, now after this and reading through a few more things today - not quite full bottle but heading there :)

Thankyou Boobook and Frank, That was all good stuff much appreciated as you have opened my eyes to alternate methods Satnav. I am currently looking at replacing my current dead device and purchasing a Garmin2797 and adding OZtopo mapping available from GPSOZ in Sydney.
So now I might rethink this and go Samsung Tablet that is if I can get my head around what you just said!!!!

Regards....................Jeff

Jeff I think you will find that a tablet with good offroad software will outperform any Garmin for off road navigation by a county mile. Apart from batter mapping there are about 800,000 other apps you can use.

FWIW
-I recon a 7 or 8" is better than a 10" if you intend to mount it on the dash.
-Make sure it has GPS or AGPS
-buying one of the bigger brands makes it easier to get car mounts etc. When you pick a model, go to ebay and search for mounts for that model to check if they are avialable before you buy the tablet.
-Preferably get one that has a micro sd slot for memory expansion.
-Try to get a tablet that has 4.0 and above but preferably not 4.4 and above ( 4.4 introduced security features which can make the SD card hard to use).

Oziexplorer and Memory Map ( not Mudmap which has a lot of complaints) are the 2 mapping programs of choice. I like Memory Map because it has a great PC interface and you can plan on the PC and then travel with the Android.

Go to the Memory Map site as per above, you can download the program for PC, App for Android and 250K topo map all for free. The map is exactly the same base mapping as OZtopo but easier to read. Then you can buy tons of other maps like Hema etc.

Running memory map on 10.1 tab, not a problem, built in gps. There is no internet north of Dunbar station in the gulf and it worked fine. Bought a dash mount off fleabay for 15 bucks, fits into the air vent, erove the old coach road into Maytown, through Dunbar and Inkerman stations and the mount never budged, plus keeps the tad cool in those hot days in the gulf.
Cheers.
Tony F8.

Boobook Thanks again I appreciate it I may have to call on your great knowledge via MM I see your in Victoria which area??

Jeff

sorry if this has been resolved but yes absalutly Ozi can read from and write to the SD card
certainly thats what i do my mps are on SD card and my track files and waypoints save to SD card

get outmore,

You've come in late to this discussion and haven't read it through. What you say is not correct for the latest version of Android.

The author of OziExplorer has modified his software to address that.

You must have "not the latest", as do I, and we can write to the SD. Buyers of devices with the latest version are not so lucky.

Cheers

I might jump in here a bit late too, as there seems to be a bit of confusion as to the problem with the external SD card.

Re "Unfortunately Oziexplorer won't let you store maps on the SD card so you have to use the main memory which will quickly get full. Other programs like Memory Map will let you store maps on the SD card then read those maps, getting over the issue."

You can certainly store and load maps and data on/from the external SD card, even with the latest version of KitKat, I am running 4.4.2 on a Samsung 8" and 10".
The only problem is that a program cannot write to the SD card, although Ozi has addressed this in the latest version, so the only thing that will fill up the tablets internal memory is Track Logs, unless of cause you have the latest version of Ozi which will let you save them to it's 'Own' specific folder.
It is also possible copy and paste any files you wish, such as 'Track Logs' to the external SD card using Samsung's "My Files" app.

Chris

Yes I have looked into it and did over state the problem. Thanks.

As I now understand it in 4.4 the Latest release of Ozi can store maps, tracks etc into it's own folder on the SD card. You can also use the samsung app or write the files by putting the card in you PC.

You just have to use the one folder allocated to Ozi by Android. This is how Memory Map works too. I don't have an Android Ozi to test this though.