Do Not Overtake Turning Vehicle signs on caravans

Submitted: Saturday, Dec 06, 2014 at 12:49
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Hi Everyone, should we have the warning sticker/sign on the back of our van that "Do Not Overtake Turning Vehicle? Just curious as we saw one on a van this morning. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance and travel safe everyone Seasons Greetings to all.
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Reply By: TomH - Saturday, Dec 06, 2014 at 12:56

Saturday, Dec 06, 2014 at 12:56
If your rig is over 7.5m YES if not no.

As almost all rigs will be it is advisable.

This has been discussed about once a month for about the last ? years.

Make sure you buy the correct legal ones with the makers name and specs on them.

DONT buy the cheap Ebay illegal ones.

A truck parts supplier would be the go.


Also put them on the correct place on the van. Small ones left side Large banner centered across the back.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Saturday, Dec 06, 2014 at 13:13

Saturday, Dec 06, 2014 at 13:13
Just note that by "rig" Tom means towing vehicle and trailer combined.

"If your vehicle (meaning the towing vehicle together with the trailer and projecting load) is 7.5 metres long or longer, you may then also have the sign “DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE” displayed at the rear." As per this Bulletin.
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Follow Up By: TomH - Saturday, Dec 06, 2014 at 14:09

Saturday, Dec 06, 2014 at 14:09
Another good link

http://www.towingguide.com.au/content/rear_marking_plates.html


This sign is not legal because it doesnt have the makers name and the standard that it applies under

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Do-Not-Overtake-Turning-Vehicle-Sign-Sticker-Caravan-RV-Truck-Motorhome-Class-1-/150835357422


These ones comply see the small text at the bottom as will any others with the same

http://www.australiansafetysigns.net.au/collections/heavy-vehicle-signs?gclid=CMvS7ICzsMICFZaTvQod3nQAtg




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Reply By: The Bantam - Saturday, Dec 06, 2014 at 14:46

Saturday, Dec 06, 2014 at 14:46
There is no mandatory requirement to have these signs affixed.......but its a damn good idea.

With those signs fitted you can straddle a lane to make a turn legally.....without them you can not.

There are no obligations implied if you have them fitted.

Most of us could legally apply them to a 6x4 box trailer, because the combination would be more than the required length.....but very few do.

I think you would have rocks in you head not to have them fitted to a large van.

BTW, the best place to buy will be at your local diesel spares shop.....they will have the full range...just don't walk in looking like a tourist and they will generally do you a decent price.

cheers
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Reply By: Motherhen - Saturday, Dec 06, 2014 at 22:58

Saturday, Dec 06, 2014 at 22:58
See for correct signs and correct placement. I purchased from a truck parts store on eBay and got the ones with the correct writing as specified inVSB 12



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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Saturday, Dec 06, 2014 at 23:00

Saturday, Dec 06, 2014 at 23:00
Correction:

See link for correct signs and correct placement.

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Follow Up By: Life Member-Doug T NSW - Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 07:32

Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 07:32
As a retired Truckie I will say your post is 100% the best , perfect answer , anyone else is wasting their time.

.
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Follow Up By: Kevin S - Life Member (QLD) - Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 15:59

Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 15:59
But that regulation applies to trucks over 12 tonne ans trailers over 10 tonne. I doubt they were thinking about caravans when the regulation was adopted.

Kevin S
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 16:55

Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 16:55
I am certain they where thinking about a great many things when this idea was adopted.

If the regulation was framed only for heavy vehicles the length would probably be more than 7.5 meters

Most short wheel base heavy rigids are longer than 7.5 meters...that includes tippers and prime movers.

Even an under 4.5 tonne light rigid wth an 8 x 8 x14 pan on the back is longer than 7.5 meters

As someone else points out....they are compulsory on heavy vehicles...everybody else they are an option.

cheers
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 17:02

Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 17:02
Thanks Bantam, and just adding that the option is not based on your choice of décor, but the manoeuvrability of your vehicle or vehicle with trailer. If you never need to straddle the white line when turning, you do not need the signs, but if at times you do, then you do need the signs fitted. Simple and straight forward.

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Follow Up By: Shaker - Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 17:44

Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 17:44
Ha ha, a 200 series Cruiser towing a 6x4 garden trailer would be over 7.5 metres!
How did we ever manage all these years without these signs? That's right we weren't wannabe truckies!
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 17:48

Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 17:48
Then Shaker your Cruiser and garden trailer would probably never meet the need:

If you never need to straddle the white line when turning, you do not need the signs, but if at times you do, then you do need the signs fitted. Simple and straight forward.

They are not an excuse for bad driving.




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Follow Up By: TomH - Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 17:49

Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 17:49
Here we go again.

Usual Ive done without for 40 years so dont need modern things.

I presume under that thought you drive a 60 ser and dont have a TV or electricity.

If you dont like them fine.

Dont knock those who choose to use them.
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 18:54

Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 18:54
Contrary to the belief of some...they do try and make laws evolve for the better

There are a number of things that have come into play that did not exist in the past.

There are a lot of white lines and extra lanes jammed into a lot of roads these days.

In cities and larger towns they now run the driving lanes curb to curb, where in the past there would have beed a roadside margin where cars parked giving an extra 2 to 3 meters to turn into the side street.

In many of these situations it would be nearly impossible to turn all but a pasenger car from within the curbside lane into a side street without crossing some sort of white line.

I know of several streets where I would not get my 16 foot boat on its trailer behind one of my hiluxes from the main road into the side street without crossing a line or two.....not a large rig by any means but over 15 meters bullbar to propellor AND probely a worse turning circle than those little medium rigid semi-trailers that coca cola are running these days.

In fact I know a street in fortitude valley where I can not make a right turn from the right hand lane in my hilux on its own without crossing some sort of line.


There are a hell of a lot of things that where plainly illegal in the past, but where done because there was no other option.

I am in no doubt that this particular measure was about making something that was done every day, legal and safe as it can be.

Be thanfull someone has done something sensible for once and those in smaller vehicles got included.

This has not a thing to do with wana bee truckies.......unlike big white stick aerials on the bullbar, bulldog statues screwed to toyota bonnets and Mack truck mudflaps on 1 tonne utilities.

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Reply By: Member - Kevin S (QLD) - Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 10:17

Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 10:17
Do such signs on a vehicle have the force of law or are they advisory only?
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Follow Up By: TomH - Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 11:38

Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 11:38
If you have them and have to use two lanes to negotiate a turn and someone ducks up your inside and hits you when you are turning left They will be in the wrong.

If you dont have them YOU will be.


Better to have them and not need them than not have them and get caught.

Mainly for insurance purposes rather than anything else.
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Follow Up By: Kevin S - Life Member (QLD) - Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 15:54

Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 15:54
Thanks TomH, but surely what your turning indicator is indicating overrides and sign, or lack there of, on your vehicle.

Kevin S
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 16:16

Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 16:16
The indicator allows you turn turn remaining in your lane Kevin. Long vehicles may not be able to do this, hence the needs for signs because not everyone is aware of the movements of larger vehicles.

Quotes from the link I gave earlier (with my emphasis in upper case):

"ALL VEHICLES with a gross vehicle mass (GVM) over 12 tonnes and trailers with a gross trailer mass (GTM) over 10 tonnes
MUST be fitted with retroreflective rear marking plates."

"IFyour vehicle (meaning the towing vehicle together with the trailer and projecting load) is 7.5 metres long or longer, you MAY then also have the sign “DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE” displayed at the rear."

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Follow Up By: TomH - Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 17:31

Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 17:31
To Kevin S If you dont have the signs and for instance turn left out of a straight ahead lane, or straddling two lanes, whether you indicate or not and someone shoots up your inside and hits you, You will get pinged for turning out of an incorrect lane.

If you have the signs it gives you the allowance of straddling the lanes so you dont rub your van on a verandah or similar.
Then if someone shoots up the inside and hits you as you turn its their fault. Quite simple really.
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Reply By: AlanTH - Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 11:11

Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 11:11
From personal experience driving buses around Perth, it doesn't matter what you put on the back many loonies will try to go round if you're straddling the centre line. Virtually impossible to turn into or out of some streets with out using a lot of the other lane especially if driving a bendy bus so anything you can do to alert the "always in a hurry to get past lot" can only help.
AlanH.
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Reply By: CSeaJay - Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 14:49

Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 14:49
One of the least understood signs imo
Plus no copper will book you for not having one even if you straddle a lane (for practical reasons of turning that is)
If you like to but big red and yellow on the back of your van go for it (gives the driver a bit of an ego boost as well - 'look at my big rig'
But if you don't want to, or if it clashes with your van's colour schem,e, don't bother.
CJ
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Follow Up By: TomH - Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 15:04

Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 15:04
To CSeaJay

A most informative and helpful post. I am sure everyone will agree on that if nothing else.


Using them has nothing to do with ego or color. Its do do with common sense. Something you are obviously not familiar with.
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 16:22

Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 16:22
Hi CJ

It may well be a least understood sign, which reflects poorly on the quality of driver skills and driver training. Perhaps the licence test should be re-sat every few years so all keep up with changes to regulations, and to refresh their memories about those that have not changed.

It has nothing to do with an ego boost; just a road safety requirement for rigs that may need to straddle the lanes when turning.

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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 18:22

Sunday, Dec 07, 2014 at 18:22
Motherhen,

How do you remain so calm :-)
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Follow Up By: CSeaJay - Monday, Dec 08, 2014 at 16:12

Monday, Dec 08, 2014 at 16:12
TomH
It is clear from several posts above that you are in favour of these signs. Good on you, nothing wrong with that.
All I am saying, and indeed echoeing several other opinions above, is that it really doesn't matter on our relatively small rigs. We are not the reason for this rule, and from numerous previous threads I am yet to find one person who has either been fined for straddling a lane, or an incident where another vehicle squeezed past (just not practically possible), or an incident where an accident has occurred in this situation.
As others said, it really is meant for big trucks, where they often do not only straddle a lane but actually have to be in the second lane.
My point stands, put them on if you like, but honestly it would not matter much if you don't.
You are right though, it was cheecky to add in my reply the 'big ego' comment. But, it seems I fished and caught at least one ;-)
CJ
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Follow Up By: TomH - Monday, Dec 08, 2014 at 16:27

Monday, Dec 08, 2014 at 16:27
My previous comment stands
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Monday, Dec 08, 2014 at 16:35

Monday, Dec 08, 2014 at 16:35
It does matter CJ; it is not about whether you like them or you don't.

If your small rig does not need them then you shouldn't have them. If you do need them, you must have them correctly displayed.

Read VSB 12 thoroughly; your fishing expedition may pay off for you.

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Follow Up By: CSeaJay - Monday, Dec 08, 2014 at 18:33

Monday, Dec 08, 2014 at 18:33
Motherhen,
I respect your opinions, on this and specially other threads. I do not wish to be caught in an internet quarrel with you, and the problem with only written words are that you cannot see me and I mean well.

But it IS actually whether I like it or not, as I am not over 12 tonnes? When you do read VSB12 all the words and illustrations point to heavy vehicles. I am not alone in thinking that it is a waste on our small rigs; in fact if the law makers thought it was important for us, would not have introduced a 12 tonne cut-off?

If the above does indeed give me the choice, my choice is not to as they are ugly and serves very little purpose in our situations.

CJ
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Follow Up By: TomH - Monday, Dec 08, 2014 at 18:54

Monday, Dec 08, 2014 at 18:54
Is this not clear enough for you

"IFyour vehicle (meaning the towing vehicle together with the trailer and projecting load) is 7.5 metres long or longer, you MAY then also have the sign “DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE” displayed at the rear."

Credits to Motherhens post with this in it

Forget about the weight limit

That paragraph is for " Other vehicles"
that are under the weight but qualify for overall length.

If you dont like them, dont have them but stop knocking those who choose to read the statute correctly and choose to use them.

I have actually asked Qld TMR who agree that ANY rig over 7.5 meters long MAY use them irrespective of weight.
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Follow Up By: CSeaJay - Monday, Dec 08, 2014 at 19:07

Monday, Dec 08, 2014 at 19:07
Tom,

So 'must' I or 'may' I have the sign?
I read it as 'may' so it is my choice right?
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Follow Up By: TomH - Monday, Dec 08, 2014 at 19:17

Monday, Dec 08, 2014 at 19:17
As the reply above has the word MAY in it more than once I think it explains itself

It doesnt have MUST anywhere.



I must not, must not feed the troll
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Monday, Dec 08, 2014 at 19:19

Monday, Dec 08, 2014 at 19:19
CJ thank you for your pleasant and friendly reply. As you know, I am not one to get into arguments on the internet.

I cannot get any clearer than in VSB 12

"Please note that if your vehicle (meaning the towing vehicle together with the trailer and projecting load) needs to straddle lanes or turn from an adjacent lane in order to turn left or right at intersections and it is 7.5 metres long or longer, you must have the sign “DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE”. Not having “DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE” sign on these vehicles is illegal."

The MAY is because your vehicle may not need to straddle the lines and ours may need to (you and me as generic terms only). The option is in regulation not in personal choice, because of these differences.

The words

" - - you must have the sign “DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE”. Not having “DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE” sign on these vehicles is illegal"

clearly spells out the legal position with no personal choices coming into it.

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Follow Up By: Member - Andrew & Jen - Monday, Dec 08, 2014 at 20:01

Monday, Dec 08, 2014 at 20:01
We are in a similar situation to Motherhen, with a LWB F250 and a BT van. Tight turns are not in the repertoire, indeed we now see much more of country towns as it is around the block for us instead of a U-turn :-)
So we considered it prudent to have the signs as per MH's picture above, as many tight turns in urban areas require us to swing to the right over lane lines before we can safely turn left.
An added advantage is the enhanced visibility of the van from the rear in poor conditions as a dull white and grey van does not stand out that much.
Cheers
Andrew
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Follow Up By: Slow one - Monday, Dec 08, 2014 at 22:41

Monday, Dec 08, 2014 at 22:41
CSeaJay,
I was going to stay out of this but I will give some examples of vehicles under the min load.
There are quite a few light rigs out there that have trailers 30 ft plus carting light loads . There are also many roads that require long vehicles to use both lanes to turn whether they are heavy, medium or light .

What the signs do is give some protection regarding insurance and legal prosecution or fines, an example of this for tow vehicle with a van that has to straddle both lanes, it is not so much cars as they know there is no room to come up the inside but motorbikes and pushbikes. These signs then give those who try to undertake no legal rights and indemnify the long vehicle driver.

There are many examples of laned roads that require both lanes for even a caravan to turn.

There are quite a few drivers that will try to come up the inside of your long vehicle, whether it be a heavy or light. If you have the signs half of the legal battle is solved the other half is, the first thing they say is you didn't have your indicator on.




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Follow Up By: The Landy - Tuesday, Dec 16, 2014 at 10:57

Tuesday, Dec 16, 2014 at 10:57
CJ

You are most likely correct that in the normal course of events you may not be booked by the police if you happen to straddle a lane when making a turn and you don’t have the appropriate signage on your vehicle or caravan. I suspect many police would see it as common sense.

And of concern is that many drivers’ are unlikely to fully understand what these signs actually mean in any case. But as Motherhen quite correctly pointed out, understanding and following road rules is implicit when you are issued with a licence. As an individual you can only control your own actions and ensure your own compliance with road rules and regulations.

But here is the thing, if you don’t have the signs and you are involved in an accident when straddling a lane making a turn, either to the right, or left, then undoubtedly you may well be called to account for your non-compliance.

As with a lot of roads rules and regulations, non-compliance may be overlooked right up until the point that there is an incident. At that point the authorities will look to see if there was any non-compliance and they will take appropriate action at that time and it may have insurance implications for those at fault.

Of course, this isn’t just applicable to compliance with this particular road rule. Many get away with uncertified modifications to suspension, irregular fitting of fishing rod holders to bull-bars, and the list can go on, but once an incident occurs you may be called to account at that time.

In this particular case though, why wouldn’t you have the signs if you feel there will be an occasion for you to straddle a lane to make a turn?

Your viewpoint suggests you place a lot of confidence in other road users and that they will understand your intent, and even if they do, that they will “do the right thing” – better you than me. I work on the basis that the road is a jungle and I assume nobody is going to respond the way you think they will…

As the adage suggests, to ass-u-me is to make an ass out of u and me!

Cheers, Baz – The Landy
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Reply By: BarryMcKenzie - Tuesday, Dec 09, 2014 at 01:00

Tuesday, Dec 09, 2014 at 01:00
May I interject a little light hearted banter into this conversation?

My father in law drove semis for over 45 of his now 76 years and once whilst taking a load of scrap steel through Sydney from Western NSW he did as all trucks do and used both lanes to do a tight left hand turn with plenty of warning to all drivers.
All stayed out of his way except for a lady driving a VW bug who screamed up the outside and attempted to turn left.
As you can imagine things went pear shaped and the trailer ended up running over and squashing flat the bonnet area of the beetle without harming the lady.
F.I.L hardly felt a thing, didn't see it in his blind spot and had to be flagged down to stop as the fairly shocked & pi$$ed off lady starting abusing him as it was obviously his fault......
When she yelled at him "what am I going to do with my car?" he apparently replied deadpan "well you can throw it in the trailer with all the other scrap if you want...."

Why not put the signs on your van, it can't hurt.....not all may heed them, but it can't hurt.....


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Reply By: Kevin S - Life Member (QLD) - Wednesday, Dec 10, 2014 at 08:37

Wednesday, Dec 10, 2014 at 08:37
Is this an acceptable alternative?
Kevin
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Follow Up By: Dave(NSW) - Tuesday, Dec 16, 2014 at 16:24

Tuesday, Dec 16, 2014 at 16:24
That's not even in Ozz. Tail light & blinker set up looks American.
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Tuesday, Dec 16, 2014 at 16:39

Tuesday, Dec 16, 2014 at 16:39
Yeah, so do the traffic lights hanging from the wires.

But I like the sign anyway!
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