Do Not Overtake Turning Vehicle signs on caravans

Just note that by "rig" Tom means towing vehicle and trailer combined.

"If your vehicle (meaning the towing vehicle together with the trailer and projecting load) is 7.5 metres long or longer, you may then also have the sign “DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE” displayed at the rear." As per this Bulletin.

Another good link

http://www.towingguide.com.au/content/rear_marking_plates.html


This sign is not legal because it doesnt have the makers name and the standard that it applies under

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Do-Not-Overtake-Turning-Vehicle-Sign-Sticker-Caravan-RV-Truck-Motorhome-Class-1-/150835357422


These ones comply see the small text at the bottom as will any others with the same

http://www.australiansafetysigns.net.au/collections/heavy-vehicle-signs?gclid=CMvS7ICzsMICFZaTvQod3nQAtg

Correction:

See link for correct signs and correct placement.

As a retired Truckie I will say your post is 100% the best , perfect answer , anyone else is wasting their time.

.

But that regulation applies to trucks over 12 tonne ans trailers over 10 tonne. I doubt they were thinking about caravans when the regulation was adopted.

Kevin S

I am certain they where thinking about a great many things when this idea was adopted.

If the regulation was framed only for heavy vehicles the length would probably be more than 7.5 meters

Most short wheel base heavy rigids are longer than 7.5 meters...that includes tippers and prime movers.

Even an under 4.5 tonne light rigid wth an 8 x 8 x14 pan on the back is longer than 7.5 meters

As someone else points out....they are compulsory on heavy vehicles...everybody else they are an option.

cheers

Thanks Bantam, and just adding that the option is not based on your choice of décor, but the manoeuvrability of your vehicle or vehicle with trailer. If you never need to straddle the white line when turning, you do not need the signs, but if at times you do, then you do need the signs fitted. Simple and straight forward.

Ha ha, a 200 series Cruiser towing a 6x4 garden trailer would be over 7.5 metres!
How did we ever manage all these years without these signs? That's right we weren't wannabe truckies!

Then Shaker your Cruiser and garden trailer would probably never meet the need:

If you never need to straddle the white line when turning, you do not need the signs, but if at times you do, then you do need the signs fitted. Simple and straight forward.

They are not an excuse for bad driving.

Here we go again.

Usual Ive done without for 40 years so dont need modern things.

I presume under that thought you drive a 60 ser and dont have a TV or electricity.

If you dont like them fine.

Dont knock those who choose to use them.

Contrary to the belief of some...they do try and make laws evolve for the better

There are a number of things that have come into play that did not exist in the past.

There are a lot of white lines and extra lanes jammed into a lot of roads these days.

In cities and larger towns they now run the driving lanes curb to curb, where in the past there would have beed a roadside margin where cars parked giving an extra 2 to 3 meters to turn into the side street.

In many of these situations it would be nearly impossible to turn all but a pasenger car from within the curbside lane into a side street without crossing some sort of white line.

I know of several streets where I would not get my 16 foot boat on its trailer behind one of my hiluxes from the main road into the side street without crossing a line or two.....not a large rig by any means but over 15 meters bullbar to propellor AND probely a worse turning circle than those little medium rigid semi-trailers that coca cola are running these days.

In fact I know a street in fortitude valley where I can not make a right turn from the right hand lane in my hilux on its own without crossing some sort of line.


There are a hell of a lot of things that where plainly illegal in the past, but where done because there was no other option.

I am in no doubt that this particular measure was about making something that was done every day, legal and safe as it can be.

Be thanfull someone has done something sensible for once and those in smaller vehicles got included.

This has not a thing to do with wana bee truckies.......unlike big white stick aerials on the bullbar, bulldog statues screwed to toyota bonnets and Mack truck mudflaps on 1 tonne utilities.

cheers

If you have them and have to use two lanes to negotiate a turn and someone ducks up your inside and hits you when you are turning left They will be in the wrong.

If you dont have them YOU will be.


Better to have them and not need them than not have them and get caught.

Mainly for insurance purposes rather than anything else.

Thanks TomH, but surely what your turning indicator is indicating overrides and sign, or lack there of, on your vehicle.

Kevin S

The indicator allows you turn turn remaining in your lane Kevin. Long vehicles may not be able to do this, hence the needs for signs because not everyone is aware of the movements of larger vehicles.

Quotes from the link I gave earlier (with my emphasis in upper case):

"ALL VEHICLES with a gross vehicle mass (GVM) over 12 tonnes and trailers with a gross trailer mass (GTM) over 10 tonnes
MUST be fitted with retroreflective rear marking plates."

"IFyour vehicle (meaning the towing vehicle together with the trailer and projecting load) is 7.5 metres long or longer, you MAY then also have the sign “DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE” displayed at the rear."

To Kevin S If you dont have the signs and for instance turn left out of a straight ahead lane, or straddling two lanes, whether you indicate or not and someone shoots up your inside and hits you, You will get pinged for turning out of an incorrect lane.

If you have the signs it gives you the allowance of straddling the lanes so you dont rub your van on a verandah or similar.
Then if someone shoots up the inside and hits you as you turn its their fault. Quite simple really.

To CSeaJay

A most informative and helpful post. I am sure everyone will agree on that if nothing else.


Using them has nothing to do with ego or color. Its do do with common sense. Something you are obviously not familiar with.

Hi CJ

It may well be a least understood sign, which reflects poorly on the quality of driver skills and driver training. Perhaps the licence test should be re-sat every few years so all keep up with changes to regulations, and to refresh their memories about those that have not changed.

It has nothing to do with an ego boost; just a road safety requirement for rigs that may need to straddle the lanes when turning.

Motherhen,

How do you remain so calm :-)

TomH
It is clear from several posts above that you are in favour of these signs. Good on you, nothing wrong with that.
All I am saying, and indeed echoeing several other opinions above, is that it really doesn't matter on our relatively small rigs. We are not the reason for this rule, and from numerous previous threads I am yet to find one person who has either been fined for straddling a lane, or an incident where another vehicle squeezed past (just not practically possible), or an incident where an accident has occurred in this situation.
As others said, it really is meant for big trucks, where they often do not only straddle a lane but actually have to be in the second lane.
My point stands, put them on if you like, but honestly it would not matter much if you don't.
You are right though, it was cheecky to add in my reply the 'big ego' comment. But, it seems I fished and caught at least one ;-)
CJ

My previous comment stands

It does matter CJ; it is not about whether you like them or you don't.

If your small rig does not need them then you shouldn't have them. If you do need them, you must have them correctly displayed.

Read VSB 12 thoroughly; your fishing expedition may pay off for you.

Motherhen,
I respect your opinions, on this and specially other threads. I do not wish to be caught in an internet quarrel with you, and the problem with only written words are that you cannot see me and I mean well.

But it IS actually whether I like it or not, as I am not over 12 tonnes? When you do read VSB12 all the words and illustrations point to heavy vehicles. I am not alone in thinking that it is a waste on our small rigs; in fact if the law makers thought it was important for us, would not have introduced a 12 tonne cut-off?

If the above does indeed give me the choice, my choice is not to as they are ugly and serves very little purpose in our situations.

CJ

Is this not clear enough for you

"IFyour vehicle (meaning the towing vehicle together with the trailer and projecting load) is 7.5 metres long or longer, you MAY then also have the sign “DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE” displayed at the rear."

Credits to Motherhens post with this in it

Forget about the weight limit

That paragraph is for " Other vehicles"
that are under the weight but qualify for overall length.

If you dont like them, dont have them but stop knocking those who choose to read the statute correctly and choose to use them.

I have actually asked Qld TMR who agree that ANY rig over 7.5 meters long MAY use them irrespective of weight.

Tom,

So 'must' I or 'may' I have the sign?
I read it as 'may' so it is my choice right?

As the reply above has the word MAY in it more than once I think it explains itself

It doesnt have MUST anywhere.



I must not, must not feed the troll

CJ thank you for your pleasant and friendly reply. As you know, I am not one to get into arguments on the internet.

I cannot get any clearer than in VSB 12

"Please note that if your vehicle (meaning the towing vehicle together with the trailer and projecting load) needs to straddle lanes or turn from an adjacent lane in order to turn left or right at intersections and it is 7.5 metres long or longer, you must have the sign “DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE”. Not having “DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE” sign on these vehicles is illegal."

The MAY is because your vehicle may not need to straddle the lines and ours may need to (you and me as generic terms only). The option is in regulation not in personal choice, because of these differences.

The words

" - - you must have the sign “DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE”. Not having “DO NOT OVERTAKE TURNING VEHICLE” sign on these vehicles is illegal"

clearly spells out the legal position with no personal choices coming into it.

We are in a similar situation to Motherhen, with a LWB F250 and a BT van. Tight turns are not in the repertoire, indeed we now see much more of country towns as it is around the block for us instead of a U-turn :-)
So we considered it prudent to have the signs as per MH's picture above, as many tight turns in urban areas require us to swing to the right over lane lines before we can safely turn left.
An added advantage is the enhanced visibility of the van from the rear in poor conditions as a dull white and grey van does not stand out that much.
Cheers
Andrew

CSeaJay,
I was going to stay out of this but I will give some examples of vehicles under the min load.
There are quite a few light rigs out there that have trailers 30 ft plus carting light loads . There are also many roads that require long vehicles to use both lanes to turn whether they are heavy, medium or light .

What the signs do is give some protection regarding insurance and legal prosecution or fines, an example of this for tow vehicle with a van that has to straddle both lanes, it is not so much cars as they know there is no room to come up the inside but motorbikes and pushbikes. These signs then give those who try to undertake no legal rights and indemnify the long vehicle driver.

There are many examples of laned roads that require both lanes for even a caravan to turn.

There are quite a few drivers that will try to come up the inside of your long vehicle, whether it be a heavy or light. If you have the signs half of the legal battle is solved the other half is, the first thing they say is you didn't have your indicator on.

CJ

You are most likely correct that in the normal course of events you may not be booked by the police if you happen to straddle a lane when making a turn and you don’t have the appropriate signage on your vehicle or caravan. I suspect many police would see it as common sense.

And of concern is that many drivers’ are unlikely to fully understand what these signs actually mean in any case. But as Motherhen quite correctly pointed out, understanding and following road rules is implicit when you are issued with a licence. As an individual you can only control your own actions and ensure your own compliance with road rules and regulations.

But here is the thing, if you don’t have the signs and you are involved in an accident when straddling a lane making a turn, either to the right, or left, then undoubtedly you may well be called to account for your non-compliance.

As with a lot of roads rules and regulations, non-compliance may be overlooked right up until the point that there is an incident. At that point the authorities will look to see if there was any non-compliance and they will take appropriate action at that time and it may have insurance implications for those at fault.

Of course, this isn’t just applicable to compliance with this particular road rule. Many get away with uncertified modifications to suspension, irregular fitting of fishing rod holders to bull-bars, and the list can go on, but once an incident occurs you may be called to account at that time.

In this particular case though, why wouldn’t you have the signs if you feel there will be an occasion for you to straddle a lane to make a turn?

Your viewpoint suggests you place a lot of confidence in other road users and that they will understand your intent, and even if they do, that they will “do the right thing” – better you than me. I work on the basis that the road is a jungle and I assume nobody is going to respond the way you think they will…

As the adage suggests, to ass-u-me is to make an ass out of u and me!

Cheers, Baz – The Landy

That's not even in Ozz. Tail light & blinker set up looks American.

Yeah, so do the traffic lights hanging from the wires.

But I like the sign anyway!