Licence required for towing??

Yep the first sentence is entirely correct.

Oh, here we go again with another armchair critic who "assumes" everybody that drives a truck is a pill-popping drug addict.

The most dangerous industry in Australia is the Learner Driver Schools, they are in all States and Territories, all of them telling the learner drivers just what they need to past the licencing exam, not the really important stuff like surviving on our roads.

I worked 30 years as a Class 5 Heavy Vehicle, with Seventh Day Adventists, who frowned on drugs, liquor and unworthy vehicles.
They were the only transport Company working during the NSW Transport strike back in the 80's. I for one have never been booked in any State or Territory for 40 years, the NSW Highway Patrol shake their heads in disbelief, but when told who I work for, know exactly why.

I for one believe that those who have never towed anything larger than a 6x4 trailer should be examined to tow anything over those dimensions, at the moment a 19 yo P-plater can hook up a 40' caravan and merrily drive on our roads without even the tiniest instruction on what NOT to do in an emergency.

LOL OBW
you defend your industry and attack another. well guess what theres probably as many or less bad driver trainers as pill popping speeding truckies . yes they teach how to pass a test but they also teach basics of good driving techniques as well as defensive driving and also teach attitude on the road .
got to say the trainer I had that did little more than coach me for my test...... was for my semi license........

LOL, H'mmmmm never noticed that, anyway, I based my assumptions on Bob Newhart," The Driving Instructor" on youtube, BTW I was taught by the Army School of Transport, Bardia Barracks, Ingleburn, NSW.

As for my licence exam, some may recall the gasworks at Mortlake, Sydney, where-as the Five Dock RTA examiner, swapped seats to show me how to reverse the semi, then we swapped again and I reversed it, now wasn't that easy he said and off we went.

Not these days, lol lol, BTW, I'm glad I am out of the industry now, retired, I notice the new speed limit on expressways is now 110 kph for truckies

Yawn......

Yep, again the usual "get out of my way, I'm coming through, don't you know my needs take precedent over yours".

Speaking of learning to drive, how many driving instructors make the point to their students that the speed limit is just that, a limit, not a target and that it is for optimal driving conditions.
I suspect quite a few if not all. A point obviously lost on some.
I wonder why heavy transport can have limits imposed that are lower than for the average car???

Cheers
Pop

As Motherhen says. Qld police are not targeting caravans. Don't think they are too worried as Qld has just recorded the lowest road toll since the early 1950's.

There were quite a few vans on Qld roads over the Xmas break and I only struck 2 that were a bit of a worry.

One just south of Rocky, one that sat in the right overtaking lane for it's full length and another around Gin Gin that I think may have just been purchased second hand. It had a brand new hinterland caravan wheel cover on the back and a ch18 sign.

I tried to call the van operator when I noticed the van starting to sway a little bit when it went over 100 kph downhill, no answer and when I rounded it up both drivers side van windows were open and swinging in the breeze. Nice curtains though.

On that 2000k plus run, I only stuck one vehicle travelling at excessive speed and even he was overtaking in sensible places.

Just for intrest MH I worked at a place that had a fully kitted F350. and while I never checked it I was the only person allowed to drive it because apparently it needed a minimum of an LR to drive it....
6 speed that almost needed 2 people to press the clutch :)

Even the latest F250's coming in are heavier and required LR get outmore. Ours is auto as that line all were, so no clutch for me to reach. Actually I can easily reach the pedals while sitting on a booster to see over the dash - easier than driving a Hilux.

Seems a little incongruous to me that you need at least a LR (or better) licence to drive a vehicle with a GVM of over 4.5 tonnes, whether loaded or not, but you can drag a van or trailer, from memory, with a vehicle and trailer weighing up to around 9 tonnes GCM on the same licence the little old grandad or grandma drive there Toyota Yaris to the shop on.
Provided that the towing vehicle does not have rating greater than 4.5 tonnes GVM.
Then throw in the fact that a LR or any "R' type vehicle is not an articulated type even though a 5th wheeler which is basically a semi trailer is far more stable.

Cheers
Pop

Hi Pop, you remembered well.

"You may tow a single trailer (other than a semi trailer) up to 9 tonne GVM or to the manufactures specifications (whichever is less)."

Some summaries of the licence categories have removed the reference to 9 tonne as it is way above what any tow vehicle under 4.5 tonne can tow.

Perhaps someone who has recently upgraded to an LR class can tell us what they needed to know which was different to a C licence. All of the Rigid classes allow a trailer up to the limit of 9 tonne. To go beyond this, a Combination class licence is required.

I would venture that very very few actually get an LR licence MH

unless its just an extra endorsemant if someones going to go to the trouble (and expense) of upgrading licenses the minimum they would do would be to go to an HR license especially as most people do it for work or work oportunities

I upgraded my licence to HR about 5 years ago, as I thought I may have needed it for a job I intended to apply for when I was made redundant from my bank job in 2009.

It cost me over $1,700- for the licence and involved 2 full days (ie: 6am to 6pm with 30 minutes for lunch) of driving a bogie drive, fully laden tipper all around my local area.

It needn't have really taken that long, but I had to prove to the (female) instructor that I was fully competent in the use of the Road-Ranger gear box.

Roachie

Nothing really that you didn't already know Roachie?

Some years ago our son went for his HC licence. This was in a rural area. His friends and neighbours had a carrier business as a sideline to keep the farm going, and their younger son had reached the age to go for the higher licence. Our son booked to do his at the same time with the friend's truck. Their son went first and was given the usual full practical driving test. Then our son got in, and the police officer said "No need. I've seen you driving Xxxxx's trucks". Our son had previously worked for a farmer who had trucks as an income boost as well as for their own produce, and our son used to drive them between the owners two farms. Only in a small country town.

Having said the above, I held my HR license since 1991. driven plenty of trucks and have seen plenty of very bad truck drivers as well.

Regardless of which group you're in, there are always a small hand full that give the rest a bad name.

Crusier

Totally agree.

There are more bad drivers out there not towing than towing. Giving them a licence has not prevented crashes.

Even a towing course will not give them the experience to handle the unforeseen like wagging tail and other things that can go wrong; not unless they are prepared to write off a few caravans in the skid pad. Those purchasing a caravan with limited towing experience should of course still take one, and most who have say it was very beneficial. However a caravan dealer has told of how he offered purchasers a free towing course, but purchasers didn't want it :O.

Suddenly making it compulsory for those towing to do a course will result in the need in the short term for a lot more trainers and the result will be a lot of fly-by-nighters who will cash in on the opening. Quality will not be able to be supervised across the country.

When someone comes on and says "We have retired, are going to get a 22' caravan and hit the road" this does ring alarm bells. Often they have had no experience towing, know nothing about loading, so no wonder it is often large newish caravans that we see photos of the underside in the media.

I couldn't agree more Bigfish!!!....spot on...

here. here!

Buts its life.....................anyone can bring a child into this world, theres no course or licensing for that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually Cruiser 91 you are so wrong. Schools teach about the facts of life. Many courses run on parenting. Tonnes of govt info about bring children up. pregnancy, safe sex etc. etc. Cant really compare the two issues mate. Jumping behind the wheel of a vehicle towing 2+ tonnes of load with no experience is a disaster waiting to happen. AND it happens. Wouldn,t be a nice feeling to jump up and down saying we don't need any sort of a qualification to tow and your family is wiped out by a wayward, swaying, crashing caravan driven by someone who really had no idea on braking, loading or driving such s van..

Living in FNQ I see some real doozies towing vans who in reality do need educating..even if its only on loading a van..

I did an Advanced Riders course during my time riding a motorbike and still use the information / techniques today that I apply to driving my cars & 4wd.

I must add that I have had so many near misses with drivers overtaking coming at me and overtaking me, and I typically sit on the speed limit plus a couple of KM/H.

I have also been sent into the dirt overtaking a caravan when the driver looked around to me and hence turned his wheel my way, again the defensive driving techniques played a part

Best investment IMO

cheers

Cookie 1...Its a well known fact that motorcycle riders are a lot more aware of traffic and conditions when they are behind the wheel. When I first started riding 45 years ago the old man said to me to treat every bugger on the road as a mug! Riding today I still treat everyone as a potential accident waiting to happen. And yes...it has happened...lol

Good comment Bigfish,

Years ago while I was doing a MR license course, the instructor made an interesting comment, they said one day "you ride a motorcycle don't you?" Yes say's I, why do you ask? the instructor said that of all the people that they trained, the motorcyclists were the only ones who constantly checked their mirrors & seemed to have a better spatial awareness than car only drivers.

I would guess not half as much as pushbike riders - at least motorbike riders have the power to avoid idiots
- when riding a bike you soon find 40% of drivers show a brain
50% just couldnt care less and 10% will activley try and kill you

These endorsements for towing a van over 15' should be mandatory for anyone over 60 years of age. This should then discourage people who wait until they are 65+ before they decide to buy a large van and hit the roads.
Just a thought since we are talking about experienced people on the roads.

I don't know about other drivers on here but I drove Interstate for nearly 40 years, Express freight/general goods/Dangerous goods and I find being labelled as a "pill popping Truckie" as highly offensive. You don't really think that no train drivers ever took drugs?

Yes Think what life would be like with no trucks.

You wouldnt eat, your vehicles would have no fuel, other shops would have no stock. No mail or parcels.

However there are good and bad drivers in all types of vehicles.

Fast ones that tailgate you, slow ones that hold you up,
inattentive ones who run into people Etc Etc.

They come in all flavours regardless of vehicle type.

Gu Rules
Yes that's true but in our industry it is very heaverly policed with Radom drug tests anytime of the day, and 90% of the time using a urine test which will show a positive result for some drugs taken up to 3 months ago it makes it very risky if you take drugs in our industry special if you are earning on average $150 k+

As yes there is good and bad in all types but I don't why people get so upset about a topic if you never did it then feel proud ppl who get defensive may have a reason as to why

Anyway I hope u all have a great 2015 :)

I don't see why every post about towing caravans or getting a special licence to tow one or caravans speeding up on overtaking lanes turns to a truckie bashing exercise, What's it got to do with trucks?

GUPatrol,

Perhaps the reason why people take offence at your remarks, is that you make an ill-informed, sweeping statement that all truckie's take drugs, tailgate and drive aggressively. The transport industry is highly regulated these days, and "pill-poppers" are in the minute minority.

If you live in the NT, as your profile page suggests, then I'm surprised that you are anti-trucks. EVERYTHING that you use in NT, except probably fuel, is carted by trucks from the southern states....without them you'd be rooted!

Bob

Well spoken Bob!!! I couldn't have said it better myself.

Bill

Bob

The Ghan has gone to Darwin for years now. A large amount of freight comes to the NT by rail, not road.

As to truckies tailgating and driving aggressively. It is wrong to state that they all do. However there are the minority who are cowboys and behave in that manner. Most truck drivers are courteous and helpful. Unfortunately as in any group the majority can be stereotyped because of the minority.

There are also drivers who use methamphetamines to stay awake.

About being highly regulated. The NT doesn't even have log books to regulate driving time to reduce fatigue.


Tjilpi

More than training, there should be a licence endorsement by the licensing authorities to establish that you have passed THEIR test, separate from any "training" certification. After all, leaners (for their C licence) do training in many forms, but what counts is the licensing test.

As has already been stated, the current system allows drivers whose life experience is in a Corolla to retire, buy a $100K+ tug and $100K+ van and go create terror on their big retirement lap. Again targeting reversing capability in particular, in my time I have seen the range of capability from a road train driver who could reverse his entire rig to people who couldn't reverse a garden trailer if it was on rails. But that Corolla driver hasn't demonstrated to anyone that he knows anything about controlling his rig in any way - overtaking, at speed, in reverse, anything.

Similar to endorsements on a private pilot's licence (for tail-wheel, aerobatics, night VFR, etc etc) the towing endorsement should only need to be done once. But it should need to be done.

Bob

How miss informed you are Darwin now has a rail network if you didn't realize with 8 freight sevices a week which supplies produce, steel. Automotive parts cars just to name a few.

And I do live in the Territory just of the arhem hiway were we see about 100 road trains a day which speed tailgate and have killed 4 ppl in very short time one was a close friend were the road train driver was doing 20 ks over the speed limit when he hit her car.

We see this everyday and if you ever travel Australia's hiways you would see this first hand

But I appreciate your miss informed response

Hey GUPatrol,

I think you may have posted this follow-up in the wrong spot and it is possible/probable that Bob won't even see it.

Anyway, for what it's worth I would like to respond on Bob's behalf to a certain extent.

The way you're talking, you seem to believe that ALL truck drivers are pill-poppers.....a bit like saying that all people who ride motor bikes are outlaw gang members. It just simply isn't true.

As for the train versus road transport.....you're quite right that interstate trains now carry a large proportion of the nation's freight. HOWEVER, when the train arrives with all it's containers, the trucks still have to be there and cart the stuff all round the countryside....generally through the more hostile environment where idiot car drivers have no idea of the dynamics involved with a truck/semi. A trucky may leave a safe braking distance as he/she approaches a set of lights, only to have some drongo in a car decide that he/she will cut in front and take advantage of the gap; forcing the trucky to take evasive action. Then, if there is an accident and the car cops a rear-end re-arrangement from the truck's bullbar, it's always the trucky's fault for failing to drive to the conditions.

You will never convince me that the vast majority of truck drivers aren't decent, law-abiding people. After all, the majority of them have a family that they would like to get home to safely when their trips is over. I've driven extensively all over the country and I drive a van for a living too. I see a lot of trucks and the vast majority of them are the most courteous people you could ever hope to meet.

Roachie

And no I didn't post in the wrong forum and wow I thought I said goog and in all forms of driving Wow Rochie you cut me deep get over it

Mate, I didn't say you posted it in the wrong forum....merely that it isn't the correct spot for a follow-up to Bob, because he hasn't posted on this particular "FOLLOW-UP", which was commenced by "The Landy", whose name is Baz.

We don't know what your name is, so we just have to call you GU Patrol.

As for the rest of your double-posted comment, I'm sorry I don't understand it.....You said: "and wow I thought I said goog and in all forms of driving Wow Rochie you cut me deep get over it"....

What does that mean??

Cheers,

Roachie

Roaches,

You've been on this forum long enough to know not to argue with children, drunks & idiots, especially when they are combined in the one person... ;)

I'll never forget a watching a fully loaded road train heading for the great northern highway and north of perth.
suddenly he was going back through the gears and gently braking all the cars roared around him.. The lights well ahead were green he slowed right up and kissed the line just as it turned red.
A few cars ran the red....
he knew it was turning even before the lights did..... now that's a proffesional

Crikey, and here I was thinking it was a "jungle" out there on the roads - a piece of cake compared to the EO Forum sometimes ;)

Only one question for GU, are you calling Roachie "Miss Informed" or "misinformed" - I know he's be away for a while but I'm sure he didn't change gender!
;) ;)

I'm going to take a bex and a lie down, Cheers, Baz...

I think this might be what it's all about. You said: "Having done a couple of trips recently it was highlighted that the weight bridges were set at 4.5 tonne GVM"

So, when a Landcruiser + 3500kg van pulls up to be checked, some of these "officials" might automatically apply the rule: if it's over 4500kg then you need a LR/MR/HR license or better....

Personally it doesn't bother me anyway as I have a HR license.

Cheers mate

Roachie

Surely if its set at a GVM figure they will weigh each vehicle on its own.

After all GVM applies to a SINGLE vehicle

If they weigh both together it will be the GCM.

Qld licence requirements here

http://www.qld.gov.au/transport/licensing/driver-licensing/types/index.html

That's what I meant Tom. The vehicle is rated to 4490 Kg and has a towing capacity of 3500 Kg. Just a point about the link, I know it is a Transport site but it seems to have errors in that the weights allowed for LR, MR and HR seem to be the same at 8 GVM and a 9 trailer.

Kind regards