CSR

Have read the various threads re fuel usage but have a couple of questions. Has anyone tried towing a suitably strengthened 6 x 4 box trailer with a 220 litre drum of fuel. I note one of the comments said they had been bogged a couple of times. Would a trailer increase the risk of bogging. Re the sand dunes. Are they difficult how do they compare with the Simpson desert French line? I will be driving a 70 series V8 tray back with slide on camper. Any help appreciated
Trawe
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Reply By: Member - John - Wednesday, Jan 14, 2015 at 14:58

Wednesday, Jan 14, 2015 at 14:58
No need for a trailer for your fuel, two places to refuel, Parnngurr and Kunawarritiji. Good luck, you will have a great time.
John and Jan

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Reply By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Wednesday, Jan 14, 2015 at 15:02

Wednesday, Jan 14, 2015 at 15:02
Trawe, a question and a couple of observations...

Why the need for a 220 litre drum? are you carrying fuel for other vehicles? 220 l alone would be more than adequate to get most vehicles from Wiluna to Kunawarritji ... if you're on your own, then I personally would try other options, however you probably have reasons I'm not aware of...

In all honesty, if the main reason you're taking the trailer for is for fuel, then it would probably be less hassle to get the fuel drop from Capricorn RH @ Well 23. Cost of trailer & mods plus additional fuel usage would probably negate the additional cost of the fuel drop and the pita of towing a trailer.

Anyway, getting of the high horse, if you have a suitable well powered vehicle (which you have), then the trailer probably isn't going to add too much difficulty. We had one of our group take a strengthened trailer up in 2013 behind a VW Amorak, he had a few double takes but mostly it coped well. The big difference between Simpson and the CSR is a lot of the approaches to the dunes on the CSR come at the dunes form a tangent as that's the way the road runs for a lot of it, necessitating a sharp turn on the approach in a lot of cases. Some of the tougher ones have a long run up carved out in the scrub. Almost all of the approaches in the Simpson are perpendicular to the dune .

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Follow Up By: Member - mark D18 - Wednesday, Jan 14, 2015 at 18:50

Wednesday, Jan 14, 2015 at 18:50
Scott

I second those thoughts

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Thursday, Jan 15, 2015 at 10:09

Thursday, Jan 15, 2015 at 10:09
Mick O's video below perfectly illustrates my last point.
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Reply By: Trawe - Wednesday, Jan 14, 2015 at 15:43

Wednesday, Jan 14, 2015 at 15:43
Thanks John thanks Scott,
Think I will drop the trailer idea. Did either of you have spare fuel. This may be a problem for us as we don't have capacity for jerry cans? We will be on our own
Couple more questions. Being on our own we will have to carry everything with us which means extra weight. The Simpson presented no problem but that was with little no weight. Would rear diff locks aid the crossing of CSR dunes. If having fuel dumped does this mean a drum pump is required? Is firewood available?
Trawe
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Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Wednesday, Jan 14, 2015 at 16:20

Wednesday, Jan 14, 2015 at 16:20
Trawe, I traveled in a group of 6 vehicles all diesel - so we arranged for 2 fuel drums at well 23. There is some questions again whether this service is on or off at the moment.

I get your dilemma, it goes without saying you need to do the sums - what's your current fuel load and kpl with say 15-20 % margin for the 1000 k's from Wiluna to Kunawarritji ? Will carrying a couple of 10 litre containers make the difference? Roof rack? Parnngurr given you'll lose over 100 k's in and out...

Rear diff locks might help, however I managed to do it in an overloaded 40 series with Armstrong power steering and no diff locks. :-) Honestly, if you've been through the Simpson, then you'll know how to do this. Correct tyre pressure, get your gearing and run up right, you should be fine in the 70.

Most camp sites have little firewood as they get denuded by previous travelers - however plenty between the wells if you have the means to carry it.

If you go the fuel drop, then you'll need some form of pump (or siphon) and would suggest a fuel filter funnel for particulates and water. I am assuming the 70 is a diesel?
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Reply By: Flighty ( WA ) - Wednesday, Jan 14, 2015 at 16:11

Wednesday, Jan 14, 2015 at 16:11
Trawe
Took 5 x jerry cans along with both tanks full in 2011, had heaps more than I needed to get to Kunawarratji.
Firewood even then not a lot about, so we made do without at most camps.
Diff locks not fitted but all 3 vehicles through without issue, all relied on correct tyre pressures and didn't even require winch or recovery gear for the whole duration.
As far as trailer concerned, I wouldn't but from memory all trailers enter via Carnegie station.
Cheers
Flighty

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Reply By: Member - John - Wednesday, Jan 14, 2015 at 16:31

Wednesday, Jan 14, 2015 at 16:31
Trawe, When I did the CSR did it in convoy and had a fuel dump at 23, that was 20 years ago, no problems then, last time I was out that way, 2 years ago, the fuel we had paid for at 23 had been stolen, not much good for the motor bikes I was escorting. In my mind much better to pay a little bit extra and get fuel at the communities. Have fun on the trip.
John and Jan

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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Thursday, Jan 15, 2015 at 07:59

Thursday, Jan 15, 2015 at 07:59
We got our fuel at Kunawaratji and even stayed the night in one of the cabins. It was bucketing down and a nice hot shower was most welcome to get some of the red sticky mud off. Fuel was "only" $3.80 a litre. Still maybe cheaper than modifying or purchasing a trailer. Long range tank and a couple of jerry cans as insurance in a 100 series 4.2 TDd.

Yep - Bucketing down. July last year.
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Reply By: Phil B (WA) - Wednesday, Jan 14, 2015 at 19:47

Wednesday, Jan 14, 2015 at 19:47
Hi Trawe
You've already said you wont now take a trailer - very wise I and I echo the sentiments of others in not towing one.

You asked about firewood, its getting scarce especially near the wells. You either need to collect it and bring it with you or camp way from the wells. If you do have camp fires - please keep them small, so as to preserve the wood supply. Maybe consider using gas for cooking.

I'm sure you wouldn't do this, in 2013 a oxygen thief, when it was pointed out by Gaynor Schoeman the CSR solo walker who was already camped at a well, that he shouldn't have thrown the Whip Pole on the fire; said ''If it’s between the termites to enjoy the wood or me, then I win’.
What a turkey.
There is a lot of difference between
‘Human Being’ and ‘Being Human’.





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Reply By: The Landy - Wednesday, Jan 14, 2015 at 21:47

Wednesday, Jan 14, 2015 at 21:47
Trawe

Is a long-range tank and auxiliary an option for you?

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
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Reply By: Mick O - Thursday, Jan 15, 2015 at 07:33

Thursday, Jan 15, 2015 at 07:33
This may give you an idea. I'd avoid a trailer if at all possible. Cheers.






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trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
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Reply By: Member - Serendipity(WA) - Thursday, Jan 15, 2015 at 15:41

Thursday, Jan 15, 2015 at 15:41
Hi Trawe

We did the CSR last year with a slide on camper on our 70series V8 Trayback running very heavy. From Billiluna Community to Kunawarritji I managed with just the two standard toyota tanks. FromKunawarritji to Wiluna I did need two extra jerry cans which I carried and just made it into Wiluna. We did visit all the wells and ended up bogged on a mud flat for a while.

Most people say and I agree allow for about 25litres per 100km. (this is more than you will need)

As for sand dunes just running standard LSD in the rear. We were lucky in that it had rained in the previous week so most dunes where quite hard and we were travelling north to south which is easier. Prevailing winds and most travelers make the south face of dunes steeper and quite chewed up. The north side was often an easy runup and many times just in 2 x 4. Coming down the south side was bumpy and soft.

For water there were plenty of good wells with good water. I have a small 12v pump that will draw up 10m. I carried two 10litre plastic jerrys we used for well water to wash etc. At Kunawarritji - well 33 it is great water so we just topped up our normal tanks. I do run everything through a carbon /silver filter.

Serendipity








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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Thursday, Jan 15, 2015 at 19:45

Thursday, Jan 15, 2015 at 19:45
Ha ha, love the "platform" on the Southern Cross windmill.

Never seen that done before, but would be a lot safer than some of the wooden platforms that are supplied, once they age a bit.

Thanks,
Bob.
Seen it all, Done it all.
Can't remember most of it.

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Follow Up By: Trawe - Sunday, Feb 08, 2015 at 18:34

Sunday, Feb 08, 2015 at 18:34
Thanks Serendipity
Seems like your set up is much like ours. Did you do anything particular to prepare your vehicle for example, was your clutch standard? what spares did you carry? were you with others?
With thanks
Trawe
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Follow Up By: Member - Serendipity(WA) - Sunday, Feb 08, 2015 at 23:57

Sunday, Feb 08, 2015 at 23:57
Hi Trawe
Yes we travelled with a group of regulars. Best mate & wife, his son, my son, 3 other mates and wives. All up 7 x cars. We travel a lot together so it works. Not for everyone.

I carried 3 x spare tyres on rims. One under the tray and two on the roof rack. You can see my 4x4 with my son topping up the water. Complete tyre repair kit starting with 'sticky rope' but also all tyre changing gear - levers, bead breaker, rubber mallet, soapy water sprayer, internal patches, glue etc. 2 x jerry cans of diesel, fuel filter funnel that gets water out of diesel (Mr Funnel - BCF), Tannami pump.
Full 2 x sets of wheel bearings & grease. Full set of Wheel nuts and Wheel studs for one wheel. (5 x), Spare uni joint (but you need to know how to fit one).
Also spare fan belt & how to install on VDJ v8 motor. Spare top & bottom radiator hose with hose clamps. Spare length of water heater hose & hose clamps.
Fuse for all bits. Lengths (1m) of electrical cable & all crimp fittings. Heavy duty jumper leads with spike arrester (400amp). Length of steel flatbar galv 1.5metre x 40mmx5mm. Length of flat bar 1.5metres 25mmx3mm. Plus I carry angle grinder with cut off disks and grinding disks, drill with set of bits & tek bits, box of assorted tek bits, extenstion cord, built in 240v inverter 1000/2000watts. MMA arc welding lead (+/-) with adapter to join two batteries together.
3 x spare fuel filters. 1 litre of engine oil.
Two sets of spanners/sockets - they are slightly different 10mm drive & 12mm drive. Extra tools like vice grips, long nose pliers, screw drivers, pry bar, punches, cold chisels, etc.
Nasa tape (repairs lots - can wrap a radiator hose or a fuel hose). Metal cement.
Tow chain, 10T shackles, snatch strap, 3T hand winch, High lift jack & wooden block for base, shovel,
Sand flag, UHF radio, EPIRB, SAT phone, GPS, 2nd GPS, hand compass, a couple of torches and headlamps, grab bag in cabin with lots of stuff in it - space blanket, matches, blah blah - if you have to get out in a hurry just take this.

And I wonder why I run a bit heavy. That is probably not all either.
I sort of just collected the stuff over years of traveling.

Cheers

Serendipity

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Follow Up By: Member - Serendipity(WA) - Monday, Feb 09, 2015 at 00:04

Monday, Feb 09, 2015 at 00:04
Oh yeah for the CSR I added a full set 4 x of shock absorbers.

I did not go for those super duper tough dogs or such - too violent for the CSR but just normal heavy duty.

When I finished the CSR the ones on the car were RS - leaking oil. I have heard of guys with failed shockies and then breaking suspension because of the unlimited bounce.

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Follow Up By: Trawe - Monday, Feb 09, 2015 at 17:22

Monday, Feb 09, 2015 at 17:22
Thanks Serendipity
What if any damage did the vehicles sustain? is there anything amongst that list you would not take if you were doing it again?
trawe
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Follow Up By: Member - Serendipity(WA) - Monday, Feb 09, 2015 at 20:53

Monday, Feb 09, 2015 at 20:53
Hi Trawe

Roo bars without scrub bars broke loose or vibrated a lot. One need to be welded back on - 100 series with the crumple zone roo bar mount and no scrub bars.

One differential vibrated loose and lost all the oil.

One older 60 series broke the front leaf springs all bar the main spring.

One whole differential housing came loose from the leaf spring U bolts. Tried to tighten but we were afraid of snapping the U bolts. Should have tried harder because when finally taking them off at home there was no way the U bolts would snap.

One fuel tank split the seam - fixed it with metal cement. Sort of - still needed replacing.

2 Cars had fuel warning lights come on after refueling at Port Hedland. Changed fuel filters 3 times on each before the light stopped.

4 flat tyres in the group. Most were side wall puntures on A/T tyres with thinner sidewalls. I run Toyo M/T with really thick side walls.

One rear window on 100 series smashed out with load movement. Fixed with windscreen sun visor taped in with 100km/hr tape. (that is good stuff available at Bunnings etc.)

1 x cracked windscreen but OK to travel.

One smashed rear diff when nearly home again - 5000km journey and only 2km from home his diff just goes 'bang'. Who knows why - that was a hard one to predict.

One smashed radiator fan on the older 60 series. We think a stick flicked up and the fan was a bit old and hard. Lesson is to have a bash plate under.

Couple of smashed side mirrors - get a 70 series so you can pull them flat.

2 x smashed solar panels that where mounted on a slope at the front of the roof rack for wind deflection. Both of these were smashed on the way up on bitumen. We did top to bottom.

Snapped tow chain, snapped snatch strap, broken winch cable, all from being bogged on a mud flat. 5 out of the 7 cars were bogged. Took 6 hours to get everyone clear. Drum brakes on the cars bogged were totally full of mud and need a complete strip down before moving on. During that one of the wheel cylinders was broken when stripping down. Lucky one of the team had a spare.

One bent 70 series mag rim. Often we run low tyre pressure for the sand dunes and just found a small section of rock. The rim came down heavy and bend - instant deflation of the tyre.

None of these things happened to me luckily. Only thing I had was the undertray spare wheel drifted forward after it broke the retaining plate. I used one of the lengths of flat bar bolted under the tray to keep it in place.

I think that was all. Oh yeah - when I got home I found the trip had vibrated my two batteries dry. Go figure.

Cheers

Serendipity






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Follow Up By: Trawe - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2015 at 14:44

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2015 at 14:44
Thanks Serendipity
Sounds as though the trip is more of a nightmare memorable for all the wrong reasons I think you have convinced me that it is not worth the stress.
However one final question. Is there one section ie Bililuna to Kunawarritji, worse than the other. Or are they both as bad as each other?
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Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2015 at 18:20

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2015 at 18:20
Trawe, I wouldn't say the trip is a nightmare, it just requires a bit of planning and logistics as you're a heck of a long way from anywhere if you need assistance.

What makes the Canning so challenging is also what makes it so interesting. It just doesn't settle down into any form of consistency. You'll encounter clay-pans as smooth as a billiard table, salt-pans likewise, rocky bits that will be slow going, of course sand-hills and sand dunes, and corrugations between most of the above. A few tracks of the main route will be low/slow driving.

In amongst our group we had a few probably not expected issues, a couple of shockies went south, a few mounting brackets cracked, a number of latches and catches worked loose, one fried battery, that sort of thing.

You just need to be prepared to the fact you will encounter a variety of conditions and makes sure you have necessary spares and tools to deal with them. Doesn't mean you will have issues, however you've just got to be prepared if you do. For example, our group had an 80 series, 40 series, 200 series, 70 series, a GQ, and a VW Amorok. Funnily enough, the only vehicle that didn't have a problem was the VW .... go figure !
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Follow Up By: Member - Serendipity(WA) - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2015 at 19:24

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2015 at 19:24
Totally agree with Scott

It is a great adventure. Sure out of our 7 vehicles we had a few mishaps but it is rugged territory. We did over come all our problems because we were prepared.

It is not a trip for the casual amatuer.

Cheers


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Follow Up By: Trawe - Thursday, Feb 12, 2015 at 12:05

Thursday, Feb 12, 2015 at 12:05
Hello Serendipity and Scott
While I don't consider myself a "casual amateur" having the spent best part of the last 15 years living in remote locations, Cape York, Western Desert 500ks west of Alice, Punmu 600ks east of Port Hedland and now the Kimberleys and I don't mean Weipa, Broome or Fitzroy Crossing. I have learnt from all the feedback that the CSR is not to be taken lightly. However there is no way I have the space to carry all the spares and tools you say are required in one vehicle hence my request to any who may be travelling the CSR later this year. My last question was is there any section of the trip better than the other ie is the section from Bililuna to Kunawarritji better than the section between Kuna and Wiluna? or both as bad as the other?
With thanks
Trawe
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Reply By: Trawe - Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 19:04

Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 19:04
Thanks Serendipity
Is fuel available at Carnegie Station
Trawe
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Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 20:21

Sunday, Jan 18, 2015 at 20:21
http://www.carnegiestation.com.au/facilities.html

Seems so.
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Reply By: Trawe - Sunday, Feb 08, 2015 at 18:27

Sunday, Feb 08, 2015 at 18:27
TRAWE
Thanks to all for the info on CSR. My wife and I have driven many Ks on bush tracks with bad corrugations including a track not marked on maps between Kintore and Nyirripi (twice) in the NT so we are used to traveling remote on our own. However the corrugations on the CSR seem like they are something else again. Intentions have been to travel the CSR on our own but all the responses thus far have said they were with others. So, is anyone planning a trip around July/August this year traveling north to south that wouldn't mind a couple of grey nomads tagging along?
Has anyone traveled the Windy Corner road from Gary Junction recently. We'd like to hear of your experience?
Thanks
Trawe
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Follow Up By: Member - John and Val - Thursday, Feb 12, 2015 at 15:05

Thursday, Feb 12, 2015 at 15:05
Hi Trawe,

I would think that joining with others who are not known to you to do the Canning "could" become another kind of nightmare. There are those who want to do the trip in 10 days, others spread it out to 3 or 4 weeks and all shades in between. Some go like a bat out of hades with little regard for what happens to their vehicle while others prefer to go very slowly over the interminable infernal corrugations. If you find a group to travel with whose travel style is similar to yours you could have a great trip. But if you don't then everyone will be frustrated, stressed and unhappy. As others have said, the Canning is challenging, and the challenges take many forms.

Cheers
J and V
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Follow Up By: Trawe - Thursday, Feb 12, 2015 at 21:20

Thursday, Feb 12, 2015 at 21:20
Thanks J&V
I would be amongst the slow travelers. On reflection I think you are right re joining others that is why we have always traveled on our own at our speed and where we go. From the way you write you have done the trip
did you travel in a group or alone? Would you be able to share your experience and recommendations.
Trawe
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Follow Up By: Member - John and Val - Thursday, Feb 12, 2015 at 22:05

Thursday, Feb 12, 2015 at 22:05
Hi Trawe
We prefer to travel slowly also. We have done some of the Canning and have written a short blog about it here though by skipping through some of the before and after blogs for that year you may glean a bit more of the context.

While we were on the Canning we heard regular calls over VKS737 from a solo traveller, and I think if my memory is correct we may have met up with them at Georgia Bore. They seemed to be going fine, just taking it slowly. While many people do the Canning in a group, solo travellers are not unknown. You seem to be an experienced outback traveller so with adequate planning and preparation is there any reason not to give it a go by yourself? Maybe a question to ask on here is for experiences of those who have done the Canning solo.

Cheers,

Val.
J and V
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Reply By: Member - Serendipity(WA) - Thursday, Feb 12, 2015 at 19:49

Thursday, Feb 12, 2015 at 19:49
I did not mean you where not experienced so please don't take me wrong.

The bottom half or bottom third is better and lots will drive up there to stay at the Durba springs and then return south. A few tricky spots but pretty easy. After that the sand dune country starts and some long stretches of corrugations.

Cheers

Serendipity

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