Why is it said that Diesels are best for towing

Hi,
Your choice of diesels today is so much wider than in 1996.

The major difference is a turbo.

I had a 60 series and used an 80 to go to Adelaide with a van. All you say about those vehicles (diesels) is true.

Jump in a newer one and compare the difference. Your fuel consumption will be lower too.
Well, maybe not in a V8 Landcruiser.

bill

Suggest C3 that you get with the time and take yourself to a few dealers and try out the new diesels. Unless you are going for a V8 motor, you will find the smaller diesels have heaps more power and larger torque band that your vintage model.

Also, do yourself another favour and drive one of the latest autos as they are much better for towing. The auto box in the D-Max can be used as either an automatic or a manual, just no pestie clutch pedal to get in the way. In manual mode mine will only change up or down when I push/pull the gear stick and engine breaking is the same as a full blown manual box.

As far as consumption goes, towing 2500kg I get around 16l/100 and without it returns under 9l/100. The same in a Petrol will probably return 25+l/100 and 15+l/100.

You will be astounded by how well these go, I would never go back to a petrol again.

I have never been through the figures and wondered. But I would ask, why do 99% of "heavy vehicles" use diesel? Has to be a reason apart from cost! Why is it?

Hey cruiser, I have never really been a petrol fan except for cars like new Corollas etc which I have and it gets 6-7 litres per 100 in the country and 8-9 in the city but that's not the question here as we are talking 4x4xs and towing so here goes........

We have a 2006 105 series 4.2 diesel non-turbo manual Landcruiser (but it is heavy) which gives us an average of 15 litres per 100 when travelling NOT towing and 19 litres per 100 when towing a 2400kg loaded 18 foot jayco expanda at 90kmh but have noticed up to 24 litres per 100 into a staunch headwind but dropping down to 80kmh.

We have a 2011 150 series 3 litre turbo diesel automatic Prado (normal weight) which gives us an average of 8.5 litres per 100 when travelling NOT towing and 14 litres per 100 when towing the exact same caravan as stated above but at 100kmh and have noticed up to 17 litres per 100 into a staunch headwind but dropping down to 90kmh.

The weird thing is that when towing the van behind the 105 series it makes the car act quite nervous, for example when the semi trailers cause the bitumen road to dent under each wheel track which can be like that for quite some kms depending on the quality of the road, the car and van can *track* into these grooves and feel quite unstable, sometimes scary and remember this car is supposed to handle 3500kgs behind it...... On the other hand the Prado never ever has this feeling and not ever once have I felt I had to slow down from 100kmh, not even when trucks pass and give that big throw of wind.....

So my final word is that the late model Diesels are amazingly built and tuned (especially the autos)..... In my Landcruiser it seems like half the diesel goes out the exhaust pipe and half goes to good use where as the Prado seems like it is on a very tight spending budget.......Happy Hunting.... Cheers..

As others have said there has been a quantum leap in diesel technology since 1996. Not only turbos but all modern diesels are CRD (common rail diesel). The pressure in the fuel rail can be up to 30000psi in some vehicles. This gives them greater power and economy. Also most have intercoolers as well (engines perform better with cooler injected air).

Modern autos are far superior to when they were introduced into 4x4 vehicles. I too always drove manuals in the 60 series. But today I would not drive anything except an auto diesel 4x4. A bonus is that extra diesel fuel is safer to carry on board than petrol. Go diesel!

I owned an 80 Series manual Diesel for 16 Years and did a fair bit of towing (21 ft caravan @ 2.5 ton). At the time I owned it I never thought it was a great tow vehicle, in fact it was a bit of a plodder. I did all my towing in 4th gear. An aftermarket turbo, bigger exhaust, snorkel etc made a small bit of difference but not as much as I expected. But I could not fault its reliability. I spent about $1500 all up on repairs above the normal cost of servicing in the 16 years. I would get 13 litres/100km not towing and averaged 18litres/100km towing.

I've moved on and bought one of these new fangled 3 litre V6 CRDI auto diesels. I am gobsmacked at the difference in performance, both not towing and towing. There is simply no comparison. The new fangled vehicle is just so much better. Fuel economy is far better as well as I now get 9 litres/100km not towing and 14litres/100km towing. But there are some concerns too.

Reliability remains a question in my mind as the 80 series is a hard act to follow in that department.

Servicing costs are high although less frequent.

The cost of repairs can be astronomical e.g., if something serious happen to the CRDI system.

That's my take on the subject.

WBS

Crusier3
In 2002 when I bought my first Pajero and petrol was 80c/L, I couldn't justify the extra expense ($2500 then) of a diesel against a 30% fuel improvement. Times moved on, in 2007 the engine premium came back to around $1000 and petrol hit $1.50/L (at least in the bush) and come time to trade in my V6 petrol Pajero, I got poor resale. Then I tried a diesel Pajero, as stated above modern CRD Turbos are just vastly superior, even more so when towing my 1.4T camper trailer.
Diesel premium in the bush is much less than the city where petrol discounting is the norm, so to some extent partially depends on where you will do most of your kms.
Unless petrols improve significantly relative to diesels I'll never go back to a petrol, I do 40 000km pa and turn vehicles over around 300 000km.

Mark

Visit Europe and it is difficult to find anything petrol.

The first part of your question "Why people say diesels good for towing " can be explicily answered Cruiser - but not the part about if you should get one as that depends very much on the values that may be important to you but not to others.

I am big lazy petrol supporter because they win everywhere important to me , but they wouldn't to anyone primarily concern with fuel use.

Look , there are plenty of ways to blur the picture with lots of engine configurations today and use of turbos, different injection types and transmission options.

To make this brief I will stick to the Patrol GU range as the clearist examples.

Technicaly diesels have a fundamental fuel efficentcy advantage primarily related to compression ratio.
For every extra point they get about 4% more efficent. (Translates to less fuel needed).
I.E. Petrol GU has ratio of 9:1 while the 2 diesel GUs have average of 18:1 hence 18-9= 9*4 equals 36% natural advantage.

Next is the rundown effect (often confused with engine inertia and torque due to rotating weight).
This effect acts as resistance to change and on the road it means that if equivalent petrol & Diesels go up a small incline the petrol will slow down more. (Translates to towing benefits).
You can see this effect in what is called the curb test.
I.E. drive both petrol and diesel manual cars (like GU Patrols) slowly along a road then swing the steering wheel left quickly such that the car will go up the curb.
The Petrol will stall whereas the lower powered diesel will not.
If however you have to go up a long steep incline the diesel will die
well before the petrol , simply due to the big power difference 185kw/114kw.


Third is that torque of diesel is usually less not more, but it occurs at lower revs and a major factor in fuel use is friction loss which is higher with more RPM. (Again using GUs as examples)



Today things are different and we have a whole range of dual cab diesel utes etc added to the traditional wagons for 4wding.
They represent much better value and are a step away from being able to be fixed on side of the road, and generally have less wheel articulation and are softer etc.

But they should be considered against what is genuinely important to you.

For me its always been mostly about ability - in its full sense.
One day when sneaking up on a deer , just as I heard the ticky tick sound of my mates diesel behind my petrol, I looked up and saw the Deer bolt.

Your original comparison has some bias. In 1996, that DOHC petrol motor was the best thing since sliced bread and was there to keep the families happy. The 1Hz diesel you compared it with will last forever because it's underpowered for a 4.2 litre motor and mainly designed as a workhorse. Perhaps that salesman might have suggested a 1996 1HD-FT to you. If he did, you might still have the vehicle because it holds value better than any other Landcruiser in history. So look at today's resale values - the petrol is lucky to get $8k; the diesel $12k but the TD $25k.

What's changed? Petrol vehicles have got a bit more economical. They still need to be revved hard to get the same torque, but lack the RANGE for comfortable desert travel, and many of the new ones only like Premium fuel. So a great vehicle for the weekend warriors.

The diesel owners have greater range - Look at the D4D Prados - 1500k on the twin tanks is the norm. An extra jerry can goes a long way. And the V8 Landcruiser owners smile with 650Nm at only 1600rpm. They are awesome to drive.

Both get you from point A to point B. And overall the costs are not a lot different. So in my opinion, if you like a desert trip get a diesel; if you are confined to civilisation, go the petrol.
And if resale matters to you, go the diesel.

I have to agree with a lot I read here and we too have a Prado 150's D4D and it's been great...... but, I'm starting to here a lot of these modern day high powered diesels not going the distance and failing well short of what most people are use to out of Diesels.... The Prado's suffer from Injector issues which can prove very expensive if u don't monitor them which could result in a bill of over $10k in repairs. I've heard of injector issues with a couple of other makes, so if u factor that in that even though these modern day diesels go really well, they require high quality/clean diesel otherwise it will eventually cost u big $$.
I now know of a few mates that have D4D's that have failed in the low 100k mark (both 120's & 150's) and it's got me wondering is diesel really worth it, considering I also have some mates that have the Petrol version's on the 150's & 120's and the their economy on the Hwy is not really that back these days.... One just returned from crossing the Simpson where his V6 returned fuel figures equal to, if better than the 200's V8 Diesels that were in the group.... lower servicing costs; not prone to the same damages for dirty fuel; cheaper to buy 2nd hand..... To me, the V6 petrol could be a better "piece of mind" bet for us in the future......but, for towing it's going to be worst, but that will depend on how much towing u do and what speed u sit on.....

Food for thought.... petrols aren't all that bad if u open your eyes to see some of the issues u "could" have with a modern day diesel.......

Cruiser.
this maybe one of the reasons.

V8 Petrol patrol and V8 diesel Cruiser.

Quote. "While towing a 3000kg offroad, full-height caravan, the LandCruiser consumed 19.2L/100km and the Patrol consumed 32.2L/100km towing the same van."

G'day all,
diesel's are the draught horse!
petrol is the race horse!
personal choice! I choose petrol & an older model without computers!
What would you like to break down in in a remote area? u beaut diesel? u beaut petrol efi ? or a non electronic petrol/diesel? leave me in a desert broken down - ask me then!
Please answer my question so we can discuss
hoo roo

Its simple, diesels hang in when the going gets tough, because of torque at low revs – petrol engines fade away - durability and longevity are other factors.
That’s the reason trucking companies, mining companies and users of agricultural and heavy machinery use them.

Hello Cruiser,

I have been reading all the posts and thought I would add my 2 bobs worth.

You can't by a new petrol or diesel without a computer; electronic ignition, fuel management; they all have them.

We have a 2012 3.2 Ford Ranger crew cab auto and at the moment we are stuck in Sydney wife has a broken wrist and shoulder; we have to go from Narrabeen to Royal North Shore Hospital for appointments and I can tell you that we don't get left at the lights ever. It goes like the clappers. These new diesels are really powerful.
Use about 10/100 around town. Very happy with it.

As I said that's my 2 bobs worth.
Regards Rob J

Have read one assessment that diesel's cheaper than petrol only when you do more than 30 K kms a year.

I think this thread is becoming a bit like should I buy a motor home or a caravan.
The motor home owners think their choice is best and caravan owners believe it is the caravan that rules.
Anyway thank you everyone I have enjoyed and appreciated your replies
Now bye from me

A lot of info and I got sick of reading all of it. The basic answer to the question is that kw are not important when towing. Nm "torque" is important. Diesel motors produce more Nm and are more efficient for towing.

Have a look at these figures for a Hyundai 2 litre turbo petrol engine: 180kW of power (at 6,000 RPM), 350m Nm of torque (at 1,400 - 4,000 RPM), and a fuel economy of 9.2L/100km. The power output is considerably more than a diesel of the same capacity and the torque is about middling, but look at the torque band width, very impressive. Only let down is the fuel consumption.

I swapped a 6 cylinder 3 litre petrol engined car with 180kw and 297nm torque for a 2.2 litre diesel car with 130kw and 400nm of torque. The petrol car used to average 11litres per 100, the diesel averages under 8. The diesel car tows things better and cheaper. The petrol car was quicker off the mark. I was worried I would miss the petrol power, I don't at all.

Diesels are generally better on fuel have good torque figures and will usually outlast a petrol. But I'm starting to doubt my last point with cdi injected motors and all the pollution gear they have letting carbon and oil residue to be recycled into the motor and clogging the system and restricting air flow and greatly shortening the life of the modern day diesel motor.