Why is it said that Diesels are best for towing

Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 09:18
ThreadID: 110982 Views:3456 Replies:21 FollowUps:45
This Thread has been Archived
I owned a 60 series Landcruiser for 10 years and when about to trade it in on a new 80 series Deisel the Sales Manager offered me a drive for comparison in a petrol model as well as deisel.
That was in 1996. At that time both vehicles were the same price (both naturally aspirated.
The deisel had 96kw of power @ 4000 revs and 271 nm @2000 revs
The petrol had 158 kw of power@ 4600 revs and 373 nm @ 3200 revs
These significant increases on paper also showed dramatically when driving. I should also add that the 80 series deisel was very similar in performance to my 60 series.
I could feel the petrol was nicer to drive because it felt like it had more power, it seemed like it had the power over a broarder range of rpm. I also didnt have to be so alert to changing down early on hills to keep the revs up like I had to on the deisel.
Subsequently I purchased the petrol model. I have now driven 380000 trouble free kms with my trusty petrol model.
I believe that fuel consumption is a difference and I should state that the 80 series petrol consistently returns 16 liters / 100 ks unloaded and 21 liters / 100 towing a 16 ft caravan fully loaded. also returned 23 litres / 100 towing a 21 ft van.
So now at a time when I am considering trading up I need to know why and how and if a deisel would be best.
I have towed considerably with my petrol and have no complaints at all however I have not towed with a comparable deisel.
I look forward to any info that can enlighten me on this subject
Thanks
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Member - bbuzz (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 09:35

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 09:35
Hi,
Your choice of diesels today is so much wider than in 1996.

The major difference is a turbo.

I had a 60 series and used an 80 to go to Adelaide with a van. All you say about those vehicles (diesels) is true.

Jump in a newer one and compare the difference. Your fuel consumption will be lower too.
Well, maybe not in a V8 Landcruiser.

bill
Bill B

Member
My Profile  Send Message

AnswerID: 545322

Follow Up By: cruiser 3 - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 10:54

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 10:54
Thanks Bbus
Yes I plan on test driving and have driven a friends dual cab but sadly they won't let me test with my van on, ha ha.
0
FollowupID: 832862

Follow Up By: mountainman - Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 19:17

Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 19:17
You can..
if you pick your top 3 vehicles
and grab them from a hire company..
for a weekend.
cheap in the long run
0
FollowupID: 832982

Reply By: Kazza055 - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 09:38

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 09:38
Suggest C3 that you get with the time and take yourself to a few dealers and try out the new diesels. Unless you are going for a V8 motor, you will find the smaller diesels have heaps more power and larger torque band that your vintage model.

Also, do yourself another favour and drive one of the latest autos as they are much better for towing. The auto box in the D-Max can be used as either an automatic or a manual, just no pestie clutch pedal to get in the way. In manual mode mine will only change up or down when I push/pull the gear stick and engine breaking is the same as a full blown manual box.

As far as consumption goes, towing 2500kg I get around 16l/100 and without it returns under 9l/100. The same in a Petrol will probably return 25+l/100 and 15+l/100.

You will be astounded by how well these go, I would never go back to a petrol again.
AnswerID: 545324

Follow Up By: cruiser 3 - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 11:01

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 11:01
Thanks Kazza

Good feedback, obviously technology has changed over the years from my comparison.
I should do a similar comparison of two current petrol and diesel vehicles for my question petrol v diesel to be relevant I guess.
But back then it seemed like the petrol won.
0
FollowupID: 832863

Reply By: vk1dx - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 09:50

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 09:50
I have never been through the figures and wondered. But I would ask, why do 99% of "heavy vehicles" use diesel? Has to be a reason apart from cost! Why is it?
AnswerID: 545325

Follow Up By: cruiser 3 - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 11:12

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 11:12
Thanks Vx1dx
I don't think we can compare trucks they are just so much different. I know trucks, earth moving equipment and ocean liners amongst other things use diesel motors but I wouldnt like to tow my caravan with an ocean liner, bulldozer or Mack truck.
The engine of choice for most cars over many years has been petrol and I simply wonder why. Is it petrol for cars where we want performance and diesel for extremely heavy workloads at lower revs.
Towing a caravan seems to fit more in the car and performance category but I am open to any explanation otherwise
Thanks
1
FollowupID: 832864

Follow Up By: Tony H15 - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 12:08

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 12:08
The difference in klm per litre on paper doesn't seem that great between petrol and diesel variants, but when doing the sort pf kilometres trucks do, fuel costs are high and the savings in running diesel rather than petrol would be significant. Longevity of motors is another issue.

I suspect performance is the issue when talking of cars. Certainly when I got my licence at 17, making lots of cool V8 noise, shedding rubber and beating everybody away from the lights was very important. Now I'm older, fuel consumption, and driveability are far more important. And of course I don't have the same interests anymore, like collecting speeding tickets, unroadworthy stickers, etc.

The old naturally aspirated diesels were great to drive and did well off road, but towing was not really their forte. The newer CRDs excel there and are quite brisk in comparison to the old diesels.
1
FollowupID: 832869

Follow Up By: vk1dx - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 12:15

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 12:15
Could it be reliability? Don't diesels last longer and have fewer moving parts to go kaput! Cooler motors should present less wear. Do they. Don't we hear huge mileages from 4WD owners with diesels!!

I have never had any trouble towing with either motor. Yes - you better believe it - we owned a van. But that was towed by a worked 202 motor and I tended to keep the revs up. But I must say that heavier loads, Army stuff - tanks etc, were always with diesel so I can't compare the motors.
0
FollowupID: 832870

Follow Up By: Tony H15 - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 19:28

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 19:28
Fewer moving parts???????????????????
0
FollowupID: 832891

Follow Up By: vk1dx - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 20:08

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 20:08
So I was led to believe. Am I wrong? Hmmm Oh well, one shouldn't be too old to learn, should one.
0
FollowupID: 832893

Follow Up By: Gronk - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 21:58

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 21:58
It's all about torque....

Trucks ARE pretty relevant......they don't make a whole lot of power, but heaps of torque..

You wouldn't tow a caravan with a Toyota Corolla would you ?......they have plenty of power (103Kw ) but lowish torque (173 Nm )

But something like a Colorado has a little bit more power (132 Kw ) but heaps more torque ( 470 Nm )

By the way, the old 202 motor had only 88 Kw and 250 NM of torque !!
0
FollowupID: 832912

Follow Up By: cruiser 3 - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 22:12

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 22:12
Good explanation Gronk, thank you
0
FollowupID: 832915

Follow Up By: Tony H15 - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 22:27

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 22:27
Fords 250ci six of the early 70s developed 270 odd nm, but did so at 1900rpm, very similar to the ford courier diesel output (nm at least). I had a Cortina with that motor - grunt plus. Shame about the rest of the car!
0
FollowupID: 832918

Follow Up By: vk1dx - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 23:49

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 23:49
I think that I will stick to the diesel. Evening all.
0
FollowupID: 832928

Follow Up By: Sigmund - Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 09:44

Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 09:44
IMO it's less about torque per se than the spread of power.

My Isuzu delivers a flat power curve that goes from 1800 to 2800 RPM. Redlines at 4500 and there's really little point doing that. And there's still useful power below 1800.

The max power is low compared to other TDs but enough for slow off-road work and for highway towing. Pulling 1.4 tonnes on the highway at 95 kmh actual, it uses 10 lph.

But comparing fuel consumption figures really needs data on drag and road conditions as well. Drag increases exponentially as speed does and a light foot pays dividends.
0
FollowupID: 832943

Follow Up By: Gronk - Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 21:21

Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 21:21
A power curve goes hand in hand with a torque curve, no use having a nice spread of power if there is no torque.
0
FollowupID: 832990

Reply By: Been-Everywhereman - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 10:26

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 10:26
Hey cruiser, I have never really been a petrol fan except for cars like new Corollas etc which I have and it gets 6-7 litres per 100 in the country and 8-9 in the city but that's not the question here as we are talking 4x4xs and towing so here goes........

We have a 2006 105 series 4.2 diesel non-turbo manual Landcruiser (but it is heavy) which gives us an average of 15 litres per 100 when travelling NOT towing and 19 litres per 100 when towing a 2400kg loaded 18 foot jayco expanda at 90kmh but have noticed up to 24 litres per 100 into a staunch headwind but dropping down to 80kmh.

We have a 2011 150 series 3 litre turbo diesel automatic Prado (normal weight) which gives us an average of 8.5 litres per 100 when travelling NOT towing and 14 litres per 100 when towing the exact same caravan as stated above but at 100kmh and have noticed up to 17 litres per 100 into a staunch headwind but dropping down to 90kmh.

The weird thing is that when towing the van behind the 105 series it makes the car act quite nervous, for example when the semi trailers cause the bitumen road to dent under each wheel track which can be like that for quite some kms depending on the quality of the road, the car and van can *track* into these grooves and feel quite unstable, sometimes scary and remember this car is supposed to handle 3500kgs behind it...... On the other hand the Prado never ever has this feeling and not ever once have I felt I had to slow down from 100kmh, not even when trucks pass and give that big throw of wind.....

So my final word is that the late model Diesels are amazingly built and tuned (especially the autos)..... In my Landcruiser it seems like half the diesel goes out the exhaust pipe and half goes to good use where as the Prado seems like it is on a very tight spending budget.......Happy Hunting.... Cheers..
AnswerID: 545328

Follow Up By: cruiser 3 - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 11:19

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 11:19
Wow been everywhere
Thanks for taking the time to give such a detailed explanation. Especially since you are comparing vehicles similar to my current one as well as the more modern which I will be looking at
0
FollowupID: 832865

Reply By: Geepeem - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 10:40

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 10:40
As others have said there has been a quantum leap in diesel technology since 1996. Not only turbos but all modern diesels are CRD (common rail diesel). The pressure in the fuel rail can be up to 30000psi in some vehicles. This gives them greater power and economy. Also most have intercoolers as well (engines perform better with cooler injected air).

Modern autos are far superior to when they were introduced into 4x4 vehicles. I too always drove manuals in the 60 series. But today I would not drive anything except an auto diesel 4x4. A bonus is that extra diesel fuel is safer to carry on board than petrol. Go diesel!
AnswerID: 545329

Follow Up By: cruiser 3 - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 11:23

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 11:23
Well geepeem it seems like my old experiences count for nothing and that its time for me to update into this modern diesel technology
0
FollowupID: 832866

Follow Up By: Crusier 91 - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 12:03

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 12:03
Yes there has been a quantum leap in diesel technology since 1996 and there has also been a quantum leap in the cost of diesel replacement parts and repairs since 1996.

For me, petrol is still value for money and fuel usage is only 1/3 more than diesels.
0
FollowupID: 832867

Follow Up By: Geepeem - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 12:32

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 12:32
That may be so Cruiser 91 but cost is not the driver. Most retirees with super are quite affluent today compared with 20 years ago. Diesels could be twice the price to buy and maintain and the majority would still buy them simply because they are the best to own and tow with. There is no substitute for towing quality and performance and longevity of a diesel. Price is not relevant if you want the best.
0
FollowupID: 832871

Follow Up By: cruiser 3 - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 15:21

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 15:21
Hi Cruiser 91
Thanks for your reply.
I have done 300000 to 400000 in my previous Toyota Landcruisers, both petrol and diesel variants with absolutely no problems.
I wonder if the same will apply to the new CRD vehicles.
After all that is the reason for me thinking of upgrading, reliability of a new car as opposed to my older 80 series. The dual cabs aren't as comfortable as my cruiser either.
It's a hard decision to make but if ibuy a dual cab I will be keeping the cruiser just in case
0
FollowupID: 832881

Reply By: WBS - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 12:44

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 12:44
I owned an 80 Series manual Diesel for 16 Years and did a fair bit of towing (21 ft caravan @ 2.5 ton). At the time I owned it I never thought it was a great tow vehicle, in fact it was a bit of a plodder. I did all my towing in 4th gear. An aftermarket turbo, bigger exhaust, snorkel etc made a small bit of difference but not as much as I expected. But I could not fault its reliability. I spent about $1500 all up on repairs above the normal cost of servicing in the 16 years. I would get 13 litres/100km not towing and averaged 18litres/100km towing.

I've moved on and bought one of these new fangled 3 litre V6 CRDI auto diesels. I am gobsmacked at the difference in performance, both not towing and towing. There is simply no comparison. The new fangled vehicle is just so much better. Fuel economy is far better as well as I now get 9 litres/100km not towing and 14litres/100km towing. But there are some concerns too.

Reliability remains a question in my mind as the 80 series is a hard act to follow in that department.

Servicing costs are high although less frequent.

The cost of repairs can be astronomical e.g., if something serious happen to the CRDI system.

That's my take on the subject.

WBS
AnswerID: 545335

Follow Up By: cruiser 3 - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 14:34

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 14:34
Hi WBS
Gee that's great info. It's interesting that your diesel 80 series gave very similar fuel consumption to my 80 series petrol.
Your comments about your new CRD giving superior towing and fuel usage at a concern about reliability and service costs are very interesting to me also.
Thanks for taking the time to reply
0
FollowupID: 832875

Reply By: Member - Mark (Tamworth NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 13:12

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 13:12
Crusier3
In 2002 when I bought my first Pajero and petrol was 80c/L, I couldn't justify the extra expense ($2500 then) of a diesel against a 30% fuel improvement. Times moved on, in 2007 the engine premium came back to around $1000 and petrol hit $1.50/L (at least in the bush) and come time to trade in my V6 petrol Pajero, I got poor resale. Then I tried a diesel Pajero, as stated above modern CRD Turbos are just vastly superior, even more so when towing my 1.4T camper trailer.
Diesel premium in the bush is much less than the city where petrol discounting is the norm, so to some extent partially depends on where you will do most of your kms.
Unless petrols improve significantly relative to diesels I'll never go back to a petrol, I do 40 000km pa and turn vehicles over around 300 000km.

Mark
AnswerID: 545338

Follow Up By: cruiser 3 - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 14:43

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 14:43
Thanks Mark
It certainly seems that the way to go now days is the new turbo diesels.
I now have to come to terms with the much smaller capacity engines.
It seems like a 2.5 or 3.00 liter turbo diesel is quite big enough for towing a 16 ft van. Where once I thought I needed 4 litres
0
FollowupID: 832877

Reply By: Member -Pinko (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 13:18

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 13:18
Visit Europe and it is difficult to find anything petrol.
Living is a journey,it depends on where you go !
VKS 737 mobile 0049 selcall 0049

Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 545339

Reply By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 15:27

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 15:27
The first part of your question "Why people say diesels good for towing " can be explicily answered Cruiser - but not the part about if you should get one as that depends very much on the values that may be important to you but not to others.

I am big lazy petrol supporter because they win everywhere important to me , but they wouldn't to anyone primarily concern with fuel use.

Look , there are plenty of ways to blur the picture with lots of engine configurations today and use of turbos, different injection types and transmission options.

To make this brief I will stick to the Patrol GU range as the clearist examples.

Technicaly diesels have a fundamental fuel efficentcy advantage primarily related to compression ratio.
For every extra point they get about 4% more efficent. (Translates to less fuel needed).
I.E. Petrol GU has ratio of 9:1 while the 2 diesel GUs have average of 18:1 hence 18-9= 9*4 equals 36% natural advantage.

Next is the rundown effect (often confused with engine inertia and torque due to rotating weight).
This effect acts as resistance to change and on the road it means that if equivalent petrol & Diesels go up a small incline the petrol will slow down more. (Translates to towing benefits).
You can see this effect in what is called the curb test.
I.E. drive both petrol and diesel manual cars (like GU Patrols) slowly along a road then swing the steering wheel left quickly such that the car will go up the curb.
The Petrol will stall whereas the lower powered diesel will not.
If however you have to go up a long steep incline the diesel will die
well before the petrol , simply due to the big power difference 185kw/114kw.


Third is that torque of diesel is usually less not more, but it occurs at lower revs and a major factor in fuel use is friction loss which is higher with more RPM. (Again using GUs as examples)



Today things are different and we have a whole range of dual cab diesel utes etc added to the traditional wagons for 4wding.
They represent much better value and are a step away from being able to be fixed on side of the road, and generally have less wheel articulation and are softer etc.

But they should be considered against what is genuinely important to you.

For me its always been mostly about ability - in its full sense.
One day when sneaking up on a deer , just as I heard the ticky tick sound of my mates diesel behind my petrol, I looked up and saw the Deer bolt.
Robin Miller

Member
My Profile  Send Message

AnswerID: 545347

Follow Up By: cruiser 3 - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 17:17

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 17:17
Hi Robin
Thank you for explaining the differences.
I was most interested when you explained "if you have to go up a long steep hill the diesel will die first"
That has always been my experience and it was because of this experience that I couldn't understand why diesel lovers say they are better at towing. I thought I was missing something.
I know diesels are more fuel efficient but that is not my priority.
Like your Nissan example I am used to towing with 158 kW and 373 mm of torque, I don't want to go backwards from this. I am also used to having an extremely reliable vehicle and one that I can grease and oil change myself so it's very easy and cheap to maintain.
Umm I'm starting to convince myself that unless I go another Landcruiser possibly a 70 series (similar vehicle only newer) but at $70000 ouch. then maybe I should stick with my trusty 80 series which still goes perfectly. Just getting old, like me.
Even at the 80 series age it owed my caravan around Australia again last year and never missed a beat.
That's my dilemma can it do it again or should I get something new. My main concern is reliability when far from home and many miles from service.????
0
FollowupID: 832887

Follow Up By: Steve - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 20:11

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 20:11
hey cruiser3, not much more to add but I reckon looking at your last paragraph, I'd be sticking with the old brute but getting it thoroughly checked out by somebody you can trust. Mileage-wise, it isn't really that old.
0
FollowupID: 832895

Follow Up By: gbc - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 21:38

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 21:38
We've also had a 1fz 80 series in the family for the last 17 years. It's just ticked over the 500 000 mark. It tows a bit too. There's no way I'd let it go unless it was completely dead, even then you can get a brand new crate motor from toyota for about $8k. Pretty cheap. My Px ranger tows better, uses less diesel and has a much better safety suite, but if the world was ending tomorrow and I had to go bush, the old petrol 80 is what we'd be in. It's got nothing to prove to nobody because it's been there done that. Spend 1/5 of a new car freshening the old girl up and another lap will be done easily. 80's don't simply die, they are neglected to death.
0
FollowupID: 832907

Follow Up By: cruiser 3 - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 22:09

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 22:09
Hi gbc
Wow I was really encouraged to read your reply. 500000 kms, on that basis mine has a lot of life left in it yet.
I actually feel very confident with its towing capability contrary to what others say about newer being better.
For that reason I have always been reluctant to trade up in case the newer vehicle may not compare favourably.
Knowing that my 80 has always been serviced every 5000 ks also helps.
Interesting also the info you provided about new motors, I wasn't aware that a new motor could be obtained specially at that price.
I really am leaning towards keeping my trusty 80. I may have it detailed properly to give its appearance a new lease of life, mechanically it seems fine, the paint on the steel rims is deteriorating.
Then just continue to maintain it
0
FollowupID: 832914

Follow Up By: gbc - Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 12:23

Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 12:23
Funny you mention the wheels. The 80 was mine, now it is my father's. He has slowly been getting bits and pieces done to it. His mate is a spray painter and whenever mum and dad are overseas the cruiser sits in his shed and gets little bits done when there is time. The latest incarnation is to spray the bloody old steel wheels in the same metallic silver and clear as the rest of the car! Looks quite 'special' actually. Not what I'd do, but the old boy maintains they are heaps easier to keep clean now that they are gloss.
Yes, new cars will tow better and stop better and use marginally less than the 80, but that's not to say they 80 is poor at those things. And the money outlayed for a new car to go touring is very large.
Diesel being a better purchase option than petrol in 4wd's in my opinion is only fairly recent. I bought the 80 in petrol because they wanted an extra $20k+ for the multivalve - I couldn't make it add up. There was also an auto 80 in petrol in there somewhere. Then I bought an RV 105 series with the same 1fz - because a 1hz is not something I could live with in a highway going work vehicle. Then I bought the 5vz (3.4) v6 hilux over the 3lt turbo diesel - again toyota wanted waay too much for an underperforming diesel to give them an extra $10k for it. After that it was a crd colorado and now a crd ranger. I like to think I play the cards in front of me and that is what the maths said to do at the time. Make no mistake, the current crd motors are rip snorters, but I write them off every 5 years through work and get a new one so i don't have to care about longevity that much, which is just as well because I think 500 out of any of these new cars would be a pretty big ask - not of the short block, but of all the crap hanging off it and mainly the turbos and fuel injection systems, not to mention bodywork and plastics.
One last thing, that petrol 80 manual used 20l LESS fuel than my auto crd colorado on a Simpson desert French line crossing. Fuel for thought.
0
FollowupID: 832955

Follow Up By: cruiser 3 - Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 13:02

Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 13:02
Thanks for your last post gbc, great information.
0
FollowupID: 832959

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 19:57

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 19:57
Your original comparison has some bias. In 1996, that DOHC petrol motor was the best thing since sliced bread and was there to keep the families happy. The 1Hz diesel you compared it with will last forever because it's underpowered for a 4.2 litre motor and mainly designed as a workhorse. Perhaps that salesman might have suggested a 1996 1HD-FT to you. If he did, you might still have the vehicle because it holds value better than any other Landcruiser in history. So look at today's resale values - the petrol is lucky to get $8k; the diesel $12k but the TD $25k.

What's changed? Petrol vehicles have got a bit more economical. They still need to be revved hard to get the same torque, but lack the RANGE for comfortable desert travel, and many of the new ones only like Premium fuel. So a great vehicle for the weekend warriors.

The diesel owners have greater range - Look at the D4D Prados - 1500k on the twin tanks is the norm. An extra jerry can goes a long way. And the V8 Landcruiser owners smile with 650Nm at only 1600rpm. They are awesome to drive.

Both get you from point A to point B. And overall the costs are not a lot different. So in my opinion, if you like a desert trip get a diesel; if you are confined to civilisation, go the petrol.
And if resale matters to you, go the diesel.
AnswerID: 545368

Follow Up By: cruiser 3 - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 20:51

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 20:51
Hi Phill
Very interesting reading your reply.
Yes in hindsight had I selected the turbo diesel back in 1996 it may be better suited to me now.
However at the time I stand by my choice being the best choice because all my fuel was paid for by the company and living in suburbia at the time it was very driveable around town.
We never know what the future brings though.
0
FollowupID: 832897

Follow Up By: cruiser 3 - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 20:52

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 20:52
Hi Phill
Very interesting reading your reply.
Yes in hindsight had I selected the turbo diesel back in 1996 it may be better suited to me now.
However at the time I stand by my choice being the best choice because all my fuel was paid for by the company and living in suburbia at the time it was very driveable around town.
We never know what the future brings though.
0
FollowupID: 832898

Follow Up By: cruiser 3 - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 21:04

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 21:04
Thanks to everyone for your very informative replies, just in case I missed someone.
I appreciate all of the information you have provided.
I have learnt s lot but at the end of the day I guess there is no definitive answer because it really comes down to personal needs and preferences more so than technical specifications.
So for the time being I will continue to ponder firstly "should I buy a new vehicle and then if so, what one"
0
FollowupID: 832901

Follow Up By: gbc - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 21:44

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 21:44
Yep, those resale figures are pretty much spot on with the bloody great premium you payed back in '96 to get into the multi valve too. That being the case they have all depreciated at about the same rate.
0
FollowupID: 832908

Reply By: RobMac (QLD_Member) - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 20:56

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 20:56
I have to agree with a lot I read here and we too have a Prado 150's D4D and it's been great...... but, I'm starting to here a lot of these modern day high powered diesels not going the distance and failing well short of what most people are use to out of Diesels.... The Prado's suffer from Injector issues which can prove very expensive if u don't monitor them which could result in a bill of over $10k in repairs. I've heard of injector issues with a couple of other makes, so if u factor that in that even though these modern day diesels go really well, they require high quality/clean diesel otherwise it will eventually cost u big $$.
I now know of a few mates that have D4D's that have failed in the low 100k mark (both 120's & 150's) and it's got me wondering is diesel really worth it, considering I also have some mates that have the Petrol version's on the 150's & 120's and the their economy on the Hwy is not really that back these days.... One just returned from crossing the Simpson where his V6 returned fuel figures equal to, if better than the 200's V8 Diesels that were in the group.... lower servicing costs; not prone to the same damages for dirty fuel; cheaper to buy 2nd hand..... To me, the V6 petrol could be a better "piece of mind" bet for us in the future......but, for towing it's going to be worst, but that will depend on how much towing u do and what speed u sit on.....

Food for thought.... petrols aren't all that bad if u open your eyes to see some of the issues u "could" have with a modern day diesel.......
Cheers..... RobM
Defender PUMA 110 "New School Tourer"
Defender 110 Tdi300 "Old School Tourer for Solo Trips"
DiscoTDi for Work/Play

Member
My Profile  Send Message

AnswerID: 545372

Follow Up By: cruiser 3 - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 21:19

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 21:19
Thanks RobMac
Appreciate your well balanced observations.
It's not such an easy decision now days. Although in saying that even in the old days higher performance usually went hand in hand in reduced reliability and higher servicing costs.
I am from the old school of thought where higher didplacement beats small high output motors for reliability and longliveity. Maybe some owners of these small motors might disagree though.
0
FollowupID: 832902

Reply By: Slow one - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 21:32

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 21:32
Cruiser.
this maybe one of the reasons.

V8 Petrol patrol and V8 diesel Cruiser.

Quote. "While towing a 3000kg offroad, full-height caravan, the LandCruiser consumed 19.2L/100km and the Patrol consumed 32.2L/100km towing the same van."
AnswerID: 545378

Follow Up By: cruiser 3 - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 22:25

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 22:25
Actually that is one of the reasons I like my 80 series petrol. My current van only weighs a bit under 2 t and it returns 21 litres / 100. My earlier van was about 2.5 and towing it only used 23 litres / 100.
A lot better than the figures you quoted for the petrol Patrol and similar to the diesel figures.
0
FollowupID: 832917

Follow Up By: Slow one - Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 08:32

Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 08:32
cruiser,
just a little to add. I average a shade over 16l/h towing 2.5t van with a ranger.
0
FollowupID: 832935

Follow Up By: cruiser 3 - Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 08:41

Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 08:41
Now that's better slow one
0
FollowupID: 832937

Follow Up By: Gronk - Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 22:00

Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 22:00
I have a 200 series diesel and towing get 16 to 17 l/h......got slightly less with a diesel Challenger, but the 200 does it a lot easier..

Long term reliability is probably not there with CRDI engines....the price you pay for power and economy, but seeing as 90% of owners turn over their 4wds before they get too many K's on them, the reliability is left to the poor 2nd hand buyer..

Would I buy a petrol......no, I couldn't bear to fill it up all the time.......this is where the old arguement falls down a bit.....even though you have forked out a bit more in purchase cost, it's the extra money each week out of your pocket for petrol that makes it harder to justify.
0
FollowupID: 832994

Reply By: aussiedingo (River Rina) - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 21:40

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 21:40
G'day all,
diesel's are the draught horse!
petrol is the race horse!
personal choice! I choose petrol & an older model without computers!
What would you like to break down in in a remote area? u beaut diesel? u beaut petrol efi ? or a non electronic petrol/diesel? leave me in a desert broken down - ask me then!
Please answer my question so we can discuss
hoo roo
"the only thing constant in my life is change"




Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 545380

Follow Up By: cruiser 3 - Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 08:28

Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 08:28
Hi Aussie dingo
When I think of your comparison to horses I agree and beak it down like this;
Draught horse
Plowing paddocks..... Tractor
Pulling heavy waggon... Mack truck
Thorobred horse
Riding to town......Holden Monaro
Pulling a buggy ... Still the Holden
Pulling a little waggon... Holden ute
Umm now towing a caravan
Certainly not the Draught horse
But maybe a stock horse
And of course the range of 4x4s we are discussing. I think it may be a crossover point with the 4x4 and their motors being more car like. A lot more to do with the body styling but certainly not trucks.
We use our 4x4 on road too when not towing so we want the Thorobred horse also when towing we don't want an old draught horse plodding along so we want a combination of power, strength, good looks and comfort.
0
FollowupID: 832934

Reply By: Dennis Ellery - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 21:42

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 21:42
Its simple, diesels hang in when the going gets tough, because of torque at low revs – petrol engines fade away - durability and longevity are other factors.
That’s the reason trucking companies, mining companies and users of agricultural and heavy machinery use them.
AnswerID: 545381

Follow Up By: Sigmund - Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 08:26

Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 08:26
Isuzu put out figures for the MU-X which is a 3l TD. They say that with scheduled services 90% of the engines will do 500,000 kms without needing repairs.

The engine also uses a good old-fashioned cam chain.
0
FollowupID: 832933

Follow Up By: cruiser 3 - Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 08:38

Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 08:38
Hi Dennis
I don't get this old argument that just because heavy industry uses it, it must be right for private use.
Armies use machine guns, tanks, mortars etc so as a sporting shooter do I choose one of the above for a bit of pig shooting????
0
FollowupID: 832936

Follow Up By: cruiser 3 - Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 08:44

Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 08:44
Thanks for that Sigmund I'm hoping my petrol will get to those killmeters too it's nearly there
0
FollowupID: 832938

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 08:46

Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 08:46
I was told by a Toyota mechanic that he is servicing D4D diesel motors as found in Hilux, Prado,Hiace with 800,000 k on them and one with 1 million k which he said is a bit of a dog now
So whilst these modern CRD motors have a lot more bits that can go wrong with them they are still capable of giving the big k's like the older motors did
I was pleasantly surprised to hear that
0
FollowupID: 832939

Follow Up By: Sigmund - Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 09:35

Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 09:35
IMO the old taxi principle applies. You get high k's out of them as they're always run at the optimum operating temp.

I've heard the argument about highly stressed motors not wearing well but have seen high power one liter motorbike engines return going on 200 K kms without major work - the common factor is long runs.
0
FollowupID: 832942

Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 10:39

Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 10:39
Hi cruiser 3
The bean counters at those major companies I mentioned, have all the facts and figures before them when they purchase their vehicles. The big miners in WA all use diesel 4WD’s – that’s good enough for me.
I won’t mention the make as it will only cause another bun fight.
0
FollowupID: 832948

Follow Up By: cruiser 3 - Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 11:02

Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 11:02
Hi Dennis
There would be lots of factors considered when mining companies as well as farmers choose diesels.
The main one being that they have diesel fuel on hand for all their heavy equipment so why store another fuel type, simply go with diesel vehicles.
This I think is why a lot of people think diesel is best.
I also realise that diesel is more economical.
But I am curious as to the difference in power for towing and no one has been able to educate me on this matter.
My own experience driving both diesel and petrol of similar size tells me that petrol is more capable up hills, accelerates better and is more flexible.
Everyone here is talking about turbo diesel compared to petrol but we have to either compare naturally aspirated diesel with petrol OR turbo diesel with supercharged petrol.
In both cases I think the petrol wins.
Case in point, 60 series Landcruiser;
Both 4 litre
Diesel 76 kW and 241nm
Petrol 110 kW and 284 mm
Thanks Dennis for your contribution
0
FollowupID: 832951

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 11:58

Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 11:58
Cruiser 3

"Everyone here is talking about turbo diesel compared to petrol but we have to either compare naturally aspirated diesel with petrol OR turbo diesel with supercharged petrol."

Wouldn't you be comparing the relevant modern diesel with whatever their petrol version is off the shelf regardless if it is supercharged or not?

Reading peak KW and NM specs on vehicles is of little value other than for marketing use, it is when the power comes in and for how long that matters.
I was talking with a fellow at a trailer boat service centre that has a steep drive and he was commenting about a number of these vehicles that boast these high figures but do not have the ability to pull their boats up out of his driveway.

Sounds like you are happy with your current tug so provided it is in good health spend your coin on something else.
0
FollowupID: 832954

Reply By: Rob J8 - Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 22:23

Wednesday, Feb 04, 2015 at 22:23
Hello Cruiser,

I have been reading all the posts and thought I would add my 2 bobs worth.

You can't by a new petrol or diesel without a computer; electronic ignition, fuel management; they all have them.

We have a 2012 3.2 Ford Ranger crew cab auto and at the moment we are stuck in Sydney wife has a broken wrist and shoulder; we have to go from Narrabeen to Royal North Shore Hospital for appointments and I can tell you that we don't get left at the lights ever. It goes like the clappers. These new diesels are really powerful.
Use about 10/100 around town. Very happy with it.

As I said that's my 2 bobs worth.
Regards Rob J
AnswerID: 545385

Reply By: Sigmund - Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 05:27

Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 05:27
Have read one assessment that diesel's cheaper than petrol only when you do more than 30 K kms a year.
AnswerID: 545388

Reply By: cruiser 3 - Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 08:54

Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 08:54
I think this thread is becoming a bit like should I buy a motor home or a caravan.
The motor home owners think their choice is best and caravan owners believe it is the caravan that rules.
Anyway thank you everyone I have enjoyed and appreciated your replies
Now bye from me
AnswerID: 545390

Reply By: Kumunara (NT) - Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 09:19

Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 09:19
A lot of info and I got sick of reading all of it. The basic answer to the question is that kw are not important when towing. Nm "torque" is important. Diesel motors produce more Nm and are more efficient for towing.
Life's great and it just keeps getting better

Member
My Profile  Send Message

AnswerID: 545392

Reply By: Tony H15 - Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 19:54

Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 19:54
Have a look at these figures for a Hyundai 2 litre turbo petrol engine: 180kW of power (at 6,000 RPM), 350m Nm of torque (at 1,400 - 4,000 RPM), and a fuel economy of 9.2L/100km. The power output is considerably more than a diesel of the same capacity and the torque is about middling, but look at the torque band width, very impressive. Only let down is the fuel consumption.
AnswerID: 545422

Reply By: Michael H9 - Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 21:22

Thursday, Feb 05, 2015 at 21:22
I swapped a 6 cylinder 3 litre petrol engined car with 180kw and 297nm torque for a 2.2 litre diesel car with 130kw and 400nm of torque. The petrol car used to average 11litres per 100, the diesel averages under 8. The diesel car tows things better and cheaper. The petrol car was quicker off the mark. I was worried I would miss the petrol power, I don't at all.
AnswerID: 545424

Reply By: Batt's - Friday, Feb 06, 2015 at 01:22

Friday, Feb 06, 2015 at 01:22
Diesels are generally better on fuel have good torque figures and will usually outlast a petrol. But I'm starting to doubt my last point with cdi injected motors and all the pollution gear they have letting carbon and oil residue to be recycled into the motor and clogging the system and restricting air flow and greatly shortening the life of the modern day diesel motor.
AnswerID: 545435

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (13)