oils

Hello Captain, i thought i was going to sit here for nothing, thanks.
CH4 does have a higher detergency level than CG4 in most brands, can't speak for all though.
CG4 usually sit at arround 1.0 sulkphated ash level and CH4's usually from 1.2 to 1.5, the higher this the higher the detergency, usually.
Both now a days usually have an attached SJ petrol rating and as most petrol oils produced now have similiar ash (detergency) levels as medium ash (1.2 to 1.5) diesel oils, hence the rating API CH4/SJ.
I would have thought your manual would have recommended a CF4 (slao usually med ash) or higher oil, but my firm opinion is that if you have been running a CG4 for many k's now, it may not be prudent to switch to a high ash (1.5 or greater) CH4, but we have found the med ash has been ok.
As to ambients, your engine is most likely designed to run at a constant temp, this being assisted by the thermostat etc, so under normal use your engine should achieve the designed running temp irrespective of the ambient.
Having said that though, obviously extreme or elevated ambients may be affect the operating temp with the not so desired affect.
Yes i would recommend cruiser oil for your vehicle as it is a med ash CH4/SJ based not on american technology but european with japanese in mind.
regards

Sorry captain, i forgot the last part.
be carefull with heavier oils, as a requirement of an oil is to provide cooling as well.
incorrect viscosities will not provide as efficient heat transfer as the one recommended by the engine manufacturer.
look also at viscosity index's of the various oil, as the higher the viscosity index the better that oil will withstand the negative effects of heat on viscosity.
hope this helps. (please forgive my two fingered typing)

just a bit on ash levels, as a guide ;
.8 to 1.2 is considered to be low ash
1.2 to 1.5, medium ash
above 1.5 high ash
cruiser oil is 1.35 ash

Hi Russell,

I just double checked my owners manual and I quoted the wrong oil grades (bugger - don't you hate that when you rely on your memory!!!). It says NEVER use CG-4 but only CF-4 oil. It does not mention CH-4 oil. So to start again;

1. Is the ash (detergent) rating of the CF-4 significantly lower/higher?
2. Why does Nissan make such a definitive statement not to use the CG-4 oil?
3. What are the disadvantages of the higher grade oil (I always thought a higher grade eg. CH-4 was better lubrication, if all things like viscositys being equal)
4. My vehicle has only clocked 11,000. Is that too high to consider a change to a different grade?
5. Or as long as I use a decent brand oil, does the grade CF/G/H-4 really matter (I change every 5,000km, not the Nissan 10,000km interval)?

Cheers

Mark

cf4 usually is of higher ash, arround 1.3, cg4 usually is arround 1.0 ash, so cf4 would have more detergent and may be they are suggesting that cg4 does not mhave enough.
japanese diesels by comparison are dirtier than most (sorry) so would require better detergency.
most japanese manuals i have seen were printed prior to the release of ch4, and the "initial" engine design has usually been arround for some time, these are points to consider.
please remember i do not know of all the oil companies specs and of their comitment to quality or the lack of in some case's.
ch4 does have better lubrication, dispersant and detergent qualities etc over cf4 and cg4, but some engines are better suited to cg4 because of the lower ash, for example perkins.
at 11000 k on cf4 you have been doing what i call the right thing (running in) by the book, but you could now move to a ch4 (not cg4) as many new vehicle outlets are now using.
you will do no harm by sticking to cf4 either, have i confused you enough yet.

Hi Russell,

Just checking the specs of CF/G/H oil and i notice that CG/H is rated for low sulphur (<500ppm) but CF does not have a sulphur rating. Given that we have just changed to low sulphur fuel, would this have a significant impact on Nissans recommendation?

In WA, we have been running low sulphur since 1/1/2000 so I guess that would not be relevant for this state, but may be for other states.

Taking into account your advise above, I plan to use a CH-4 oil when i change the oil (every 5,000km). But as the vehicle is under warranty, i have it serviced by the Nissan dealer for every 10,000km service and they use Shell Rimula (CF-4 not Rimula X CH-4). Will the variation in oil grades cause any issues, or should I stick to the same brand while under warranty?

Thanks for your advise. I happen to be a Chemical Engineer and while oils are not in my field, I enjoy the chemistry lessons.

Cheers

Mark

PS. Must be late for you guys, not even 9:00pm here in the West

a chemical engineer, i knew there was more to you than meets eye, now your scaring me.
shell is fine (one of the good guys)
on the subject of warranty, the engine manufacturer can only insist on ratings and viscosities (specs) etc, they cannot not insist on a particular brand as it against various acts such as trade practice etc.
many do though, but when tackled by people like us, they fold very quickly.
the decision on which brand is yours, but keep in mind that should the unthinkable happen (warranty claim) you will have to be firm should the question arise.
the dealer will be paying less for a cf4 as aposed to a ch4 !!
good to talk.

sorry mark, i am getting tired.
sulphur was a form of lubricant used widely in diesel fuel to help pumps etc, and now they plan to reduce the levels down to as low as 50 ppm from the higher 500 ppm plus. this has been happening for a while now.
you may rember some 2 years (i think) ago when one oil company bit the bullet and reduced levels to arround 50 ppm and there was an outcry from injector pump owners with failing seals etc.
as you would know, sulphur is easily converted to sulphuric acid in an improperly combusting diesel and runs down into the sump with any unburnt fuel to become part of the oil, if you like.
this is more for who ever is reading this other than you, something to do with eggs i think, but sulphuric acid is a natural enemy of things like lead which can be found in part of most slipper bearings (big ends, con rod ends) etc, and sufficient acid will lead to premature "wear", so i am happy for less sulphur.
to answer your question, my opinion is that we have nothing to worry about because of lower sulphur apart from older pump seals etc not being able to handle it.

Hi Russell,

I believe the problem was mainly with the Buna-N rubber seals in rotary fuel pumps (not inline ones as they do not contact the fuel). The sulphur swells the seals and when low sulphur fuel is used, they shrink and crack.

Sulphur itself is not a lubricant, but the sulphur removal process also removes some natural lubricants. But according to BP, they use additives to compensate for the loss of lubricity. I also believe most manufacturers have moved away from buna-N rubber seals for the sulphur swelling reason.

In WA, BP lowered their sulpur content from ~1300ppm to ~500ppm in 2001, BP have since lowered the sulphur to 50ppm. But only in Perth, Sydney and Brisbane. However, by 2006 it will be required across Australia.

As for high sulphur fuel leading to sulphuric acid, this is correct and I too agree that low sulphur fuel will improve the corrosion problems seen in some engines. Sulphuric acid is particularly corrosive to virtually all metals in engines. Particularly in the pistons and rings, as this is where these deposits can accumulate and when contacted with water (combustion byproduct) lead to sulphuric acid. Not to sure about bearings etc as they are bathed in oil (dilution effect) and generally have minimal buildup, but any reduction in acids overall can only be good.

Another side benefit of 50ppm diesel is an improvement in storage life, a fuel not renowned for keeping well. Also a significant reduction in soot emmissions and a big improvement in air quality are other benefits

Sorry for getting of the topic of oil, but the low sulphur fuel has caused some debate here before and I think is important that people realise it is a very good thing, not something that may cause problems with injector pumps.

Cheers and thanks for the oil lessons

Mark

go mark, well done
not being a petrochemist, i appreciate the lesson in this for me.
thank you

sorry mike, forgot your other concern (did it to captain as well)
Thinner oil will generally help your lifters out in your case, but again the correct viscosity in a quality brand should give you joy.
oils with the correct detergency will also help keep your lifters from sticking after they have had the chance to do some cleaning.

My engine is only 6000ks old so there is plenty of life in it yet. Do you have an oil you recommend in your brand?

cheers
mike

sorry mike, am getting tired and thought is saw 600000 not 6000.
cruiser oil for you too, yes i know it's petrol, give it a go and let me know what your lifters think.
you do know that i am an advertiser and am a tad biased.
regards

Didya get those bandages right tonight !!!!!!!!!

g'day roachie, have heard much of you lately from darryl.
i am a little surprised at the 20w/50 recomendation, as i am not aware of any diesel of this type that takes more than a 15w/40.
the manual can be misleading at times, as they usually give a viscosity range table over various ambient temps, and it may indicate 20w/50 at higher temps, but i do not really know why the 20w/50.
stick to 15w/40 as most diesels do and at 117000 k your engine is not worn to justify a 50w/50.
oil pressure is one of the most understood and misquoted aspects in the industry and am glad you took the time to read our site.
manuals usually give an indication of the engine manufacturers expectations on oil pressure and i would be guided by this.
do not listen to those bragging of high oil pressure, but direct them to our site.
correct oil flow is more important than pressure.
thanks roachie

wayne, such a short shower !
remember i am biased, but you are a sitter for cruiser oil with the wide range of ambients and conditions.
if not us then a 15w/40 CH4 of quality brand, and 5000 is good house keeping
stay clean

g'day allan
can't explain why you have not got the info though, i will look into it tomorrow. please send me another email and i will make sure you get same.
independant oil analysis has been done but this will give you only the "chemical make up" of the oil and is of little use other than trying to understand how it is made, it does not give performance projections etc.
what we have had done is the testing of an 80 series cruiser on a dyno using 3 brands of the same spec oil, two competitors and our cruiser oil.
the results of these tests are what we give to any who ask, and the tests show an increase of 12% in torque at the back wheels on cruiser oil over the other two, when comparing peak performance curves.
to better explain, the maximum increase in torque produced was 12% but not uniform throughout the rev range, 12% maximum.
we have no nata reports to publish and i would be surprised if any oil company has, but i will say that the testing was done on an indipendantly owned dyno in another town.
the dyno operator is a recognised performance specialist.
i feel that the higher increases in power output is not a real comparison, but rather the torque at the back wheels is the one to go by, as after all, it is what you are putting to the ground that matters.
as far as the "claims" are concerned, we know of several major oil companies that when after the published reports hit their board room tables and after sufficient time for them to conduct testing, we were "invited" to leaving their brand names out of the published works, to which we declined.
you can't be sued for the truth.
thanks for your input, cruiser looks good.

Thanks Russell, I will resend email and look forward to receiving the dyno results.

i must take the responsibility for that typo on the web, thank you for bringing it to my attention.
no your not picky just observant.
cruiser gear box, have you experienced "cold shift baulk" or "hot rattle" as some do.
we have found that a 75w/85 GL4 rated oil seems to work better as aposed to the 80w/90 GL5 recommended, but are currently trialling a "thin" 80w with additive overtreat.
we have had a gearbox specialist come back with very positive comment so far.
if you have some problems with your box and are willing to trial it yourself, i would be very happy to send you some free for you to evaluate and let us know your thoughts.
actually, if there is anyone else out there with similiar problems, we would offer the same to say another 4 or 5 users. just email us.
thanks wayne, cheers

Russell,
I will take you up on the offer, however I will also carry 5lt of the gear oil I am useing now just in case.

Wayne

Russell,

If the offer is still open, I may take you up on it too. You know by now that I have a 2000 Patrol 4.2T/D and I've just loaded her up with 10 litres of your purple Cruiser Oil (& I'm a happy chappy so far).
The gearbox of this Patrol, as with my 2 previous ones) is quite truck-like in that it is a bit notchy and clunky.....nothing wrong with that, but I have been considering putting some Slick 50 into it at next change......... to see if I can get to be a bit more like a 300zx (just joking about that last bit).
I think Darryl said to me on the phone that your product could be a better proposition that the Slick50.

Let me know if you think I'd be a suitable "guinea pig".....

Cheers,

Roachie

Roachie, the gear oil is on the way, regards russell

Thanks Russell.....
As with the engine oil, I will update the forum in due course on my (non-scientific) findings.
One thing I will say is that your service is excellent. I ordered the Cruiser Oil on a Thursday and it arrived here in country SA first thing on the Monday morning.

Russell
I'd be interested in being a guinea pig also.
I have a 1996 standard 1HZ 80 series that has the obligatory clunky/notchy gearshift.
If I'm a suitable candidate then let me know as I'll try your Cruiser Oil also (1HZ Diesel, 200,000 km's, Pilbara temps, driven hard, fully laden with air con on 24/7) and if you can recommend diff oils too I may as well go the whole hog (obviously I am happy to pay for these).
I have Lock Rights front & rear if that makes any difference. Again Pilbara ambients & conditions apply.
Send me a message with your recommendations and I shall call you tomorrow as I'm ready to do a full service. Had planned on doing so tomorrow but can wait just as longas we can arrange delivery to Port Hedland before the end of next week.

Havent heard from you yet re offer?

Cheers Bazzle

bazzle, we got flooded with free offer recipients and picked the first 4 and have sent them all oil to try, sorry mate, but stay tuned as we are working on a diff oil.
regards russell

sorry for the late reply jason, got flooded !!
15w/40 CF4 or CH4 for you but don't go past 5000 k oil change.
naturally i am going to say our cruiser oil in preference, but castrol etc is good.

hello camper, i have got a note from mum for being late !!
i do not like going away from manufactuirers recomendations when it comes to viscosity, but having said that, in many instances there are better ways to go, it's just that people like us have to worry about litigation etc, so tend to take the safe road and stick to manufacturers reco.
sorry mate, but your decision, regards russell.

g'day david
i do not know what is going wrong here but to confirm the email adress ... synforce@bigpond.com (ther is no AU ) and the web is synforce.com.au.
apart from that we have been flooded with enquirey etc and are trying to wade through and respond as best as we can
we did find some problems on our web yesrerday, and should be fixed now.
please consider that i have a company to run as well and i am having trouble finding the time to respond to all during work hours
hang in there david, regards russell