Oil questions

Submitted: Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 20:24
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Have an hour ro so to spare if i can help on oil questions, fire away ...
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Reply By: Mark R - Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 20:52

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 20:52
G'day Russell and thanks for your offer. With your obvious expertise can you please give us your ideas about the synthetic/mineral oil debate - engine, transmission and diffs. In particular in my case, new LC 100 TD. Pros and cons.
AnswerID: 52986

Follow Up By: Russell from Synforce Lubricants - Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 21:25

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 21:25
evening Mark ..
i will be have to be very carefull here, as there are many varying opinions on this subject, and no matter what i say, i am bound to stirr up some reaction, but what the heck, here goes.
Synthetics (general) .....
Firstly, there is more than one type of "synthetic", and it must be remembered that when we use the tern synthetic, we are generally referring to the base oils used in the finished product.
Synthetic base oils start at Group 3 hydrocracked paraffinics through to group 5 PAO's (don't ask me to spell it, or i will have to look it up).
Now the general inference is that synthetics are man made as oposed to mineral oils refined from the ground and mostly produced as group 1 base oils. Group 2 base oils in the main are paraffinics taken one step further by hydrocracking (hydromerised, hydrotreated etc) to produce a "better" base oil with a vscosity index (VI) between say 105 and 120.
Once we go past 120 VI by further treatment, we are into the group 3 synthetic base oils.
when we go past there and into group 4 and 5 synthetics we are into things like esters and PAO's (there it is again).
Synthetics do have higher natural Viscosity Index and do stand up to heat, oxidation, shear etc better than mineral base oils, so from this we can expect them to do a better job and last longer under harsher conditions.
Now many believe that when it comes to subjecting the various base oils to mechanical shear, that synthetics hold up much better, but also say that when a synthetic oil shears, it does so with little warning.
A mineral oil will shear quicker but at a more predictable rate.
Horses for courses also as synthetic products are more expensive than mineral products, but in the main do perform a lot better.
Having said all that, with gear lubes, it is possible to overtreat a mineral base oil with sufficient additive and have it out perform a synthetic, as the service change will come arround well before the mineral lets go.
There has been a lot of talk or reservation about synthetics when it comes to "seal swell" (something we must have to keep the seals tight on shafts etc) in that synthetics did not provide enough swell like minerals oils naturally do. Additive companies have been working this though and claim to now have an additive to help here.
As a general summary, i believe synthetics are better and will last longer offering more protection.
Most new vehicles are not filled with synthetics unless the manufacturer thinks their product needs the extra help.
The best i can do is say what i know and offer my opinion in the hope that others will form their own.
regards to all, russell
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Reply By: rolande- Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 20:57

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 20:57
Russell,
As with most, what additives, etc are useful in a Turbo Diesel engine and actually pay for themselves and which are more snake oil?
Rolande
AnswerID: 52987

Follow Up By: Russell from Synforce Lubricants - Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 21:47

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 21:47
Hello rolande, boy are you going to get me in some trouble tonight !
this topic would have to be one of the most argued in the industry.
now i will have to be carefull here, but here goes.
by additives i take it you mean after market additives as a rule.
i am not going to say that they (all) do not work and that they should be taken to task over some of their claims, as i am sure there are some out there that do make some difference.
if you are not running a good oil, then maybe your oil will need all the help it can get, but if you are running a quality oil then generally there is no need to play with the designed chemistry of that oil by adding "wonder slick", as in most cases you are upsetting the chemistry that has gone inot it and may even be detracting from the oils performance generally, in an attempt to improve one or two of it's many given tasks.
Some 3 or 4 years ago, the USA whatever department (a little like our consumer watch) tested most of the after market additive products advertised in the states and subsequently banned most from advertising the "wonder claims" as they found that most did not live up to those claims.
i am not going to say that they work or don't work, as some most likely do under the right (or wrong) circumstances, but generally, it is my opinion that if you do the sums, you will most likely be better of paying more for a good oil than dosing up an average one, both $ wise and equipment wise.
May be prudent to ask other forumites for their experiences with particular additives.
i know this does not help a lot, but if we were "face to face" out in an open paddock, i may have a lot more i could say, regards, russell
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Follow Up By: rolande- Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:20

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:20
O.K. Russell, something easier, I have 2.8TD GU Patrol, which of YOUR brand oil would you recommend
Rolande
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Follow Up By: Russell from Synforce Lubricants - Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:27

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:27
your manual will most likely say a CF4 meeting JASO DH1 (not CG4) so if you want an oil that will be exactly that, you will have to wait another few weeks yet.
if you want an oil now, our cruiser oil is for you
regards, russell.
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Follow Up By: rolande- Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:31

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:31
Russell,
Roachie is using at the moment and will report back, in the mean time, how / where in South West Victoria can I purchase????? Service due in two weeks
Rolande
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Follow Up By: Russell from Synforce Lubricants - Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:35

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:35
i don't think we have an outlet in S/W Vic as yet so we can post it from here as we have a national contract with Australia Post, yes Aust Post.
you caneither phone us or order via web site.
russell
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Follow Up By: rolande- Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:39

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:39
Thanks Russell, will be hearing from me soon. But don't mention A/Post down this way, they lose an amazing amount of stuff out in the sticks, takes two days longer than Melbourne, (if lucky), and often takes weeks for parcels to get here. Better order soon I suppose!
Rolande
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Follow Up By: Roachie - Saturday, Apr 03, 2004 at 08:14

Saturday, Apr 03, 2004 at 08:14
Rolande,
G'day mate (& Russell too)........just a little plug for Ozzie Post, if I may.
I used to build 12v electric-powered model steam locomotives for others as a bit of a hobby. These were precision models and when i posted them I had to pack them very well (bubble wrap etc). Ozzie Post never lost one package and nothing was ever damaged in transit. I will admit that all packages were registered and insured etc.
Russell's Cruiser Oil took 2 days to get here to country SA.
BTW Russell, the gearbox oil also arrived last Tuesday,Thankyou!! Once again AP did a great job.
Please note I do not have any association with them.
Cheers,
Roachie
PS: I have the Cruiser Oil in now, but too early to give any real feedback other than a "good feel" if that makes any sense???????
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FollowupID: 314807

Follow Up By: Russell from Synforce Lubricants - Saturday, Apr 03, 2004 at 10:23

Saturday, Apr 03, 2004 at 10:23
hello roachie ...
i know it is only early stages yet re your trial on cruiser, but by know you may have noticed some things.
have you noticed any changes to the following as yet;
engine noise levels
engine smoothness
power
economy
regards russell
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FollowupID: 314815

Follow Up By: Roachie - Monday, Apr 05, 2004 at 09:54

Monday, Apr 05, 2004 at 09:54
G'day Russell,
It may only be the placebo (spelling??) effect, but there does seem to have been some improvement to engine noise, smoothness and perceived power (especially at lower revs). I filled up yesterday for the first time since the oil change. There was no noticeable variance to my economy figure. I did 925klm on 144.84lts of diesel = 6.39 klm/ltr or 15.66 ltrs/100klm. Usage prior to that was 6.40 and 15.63 respectively.
Cheers,
Roachie
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FollowupID: 314955

Reply By: glenno - Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 21:50

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 21:50
I need another oil change soon , so____________what are the benefits of me buying synforce ? Oh and by the way K . I . S . S
AnswerID: 52997

Follow Up By: Russell from Synforce Lubricants - Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 21:58

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 21:58
glenno, (KISS) synforce is a good honest oil and my kids need to go to uni soon, so you will feel good helping them at least.
that was going to be my answer, but i don't know how you would have taken it.
i really do not want to be seen as being here only to plug my product, but rather to assist where ever.
naturally i am biased, (i even have the best kids) but i would like you to go to our web site as there is much more info there on why than i could possibly fit in here.
good to hear from you, russell
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Follow Up By: Member - StevenL - Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:00

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:00
Hey Glenno, who you callin' Stupid!!! lol...

Steven
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Follow Up By: glenno - Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:20

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:20
I think i will stick with the rx .
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Follow Up By: Russell from Synforce Lubricants - Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:29

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:29
glenno, what type is your vehicle
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Follow Up By: glenno - Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:43

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:43
russell 1hz troopcarrier 150000klms (pampered)
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Follow Up By: Russell from Synforce Lubricants - Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:50

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:50
glenno, i was for years an rx fan, i think i have even bathed in it, or was it the rum, for some reason i can't remember !!!
rx super is a CI4 rated oil, cruiser oil is a CH4 and built for japanese engines, not american.
not knocking it, but cruiser is better for your troopy.
russell
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Follow Up By: glenno - Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:52

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:52
WHY , HOW .
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Follow Up By: Russell from Synforce Lubricants - Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 23:21

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 23:21
glenno, rx is a "lower detergency" oil than cruiser, and as japanese diesels are renowned to be "dirtier" inside than most, you do need a higher detergency (not high).
rx specs suit american designed diesels more so than japanese, that is not to say you can't use it, but there is better.
we have many users reporting back that cruiser did give them better performance over rx and many other brands as well.
there will be soon, a lot of focus placed on japanese standards when it comes to diesels, one in particular, which rx does not meet.
the standards came about because of japanese engine manufacturers calling for a better suited lubricant for their engines, and is already being quoted in Nissan manuals as a requirement.
hope this helps, russell
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Follow Up By: glenno - Saturday, Apr 03, 2004 at 07:29

Saturday, Apr 03, 2004 at 07:29
thanks russell
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Reply By: Member - Ed. C.- Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 21:58

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 21:58
G'day Russell,
Thanks for dropping by......
My query is not necessarily about oil per se, but it has everything to do with maintaining oil quality, I believe, so here goes....

Filtration.. (presumably you'd have done some testing here??)

Do you have any (generalised) views on the ongoing debate about "genuine" vs aftermarket filters? Any "inside info" (that you are at liberty to divulge) on which brand(s) may be better or worse than others?
Also, your views on by-pass filtering (e.g. Frantz, Filter Technology, & the like)..
Good?? bad?? indifferent??
Frantz claims the ability to filter out particles down to 1/10 of a micron (the size of a particle of cigarette smoke!!)... On the face of it, this would have to be good thing, Yes?... If not, why not??...
I'm interested in an oil manufacturers' views.... TIA

Regards, Ed. C.
Confucius say.....
"He who lie underneath automobile with tool in hand,
....Not necessarily mechanic!!"

Member
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AnswerID: 52998

Follow Up By: Russell from Synforce Lubricants - Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:09

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:09
g'day ed,
all oil companies would like to see their products being filtered by the best possible, as it will make the product last much much longer.
in my opinion, the extra money spent is very much worth while, as the standard filter that comes with the vehicle, are always only just.
genuine or other brand, i think you will find that in may cases the genuine is made by the "other brand" and am personally aware of one filter manufacturer that makes filters for (you would be surprised who) many of the car makers.
but guess what, the genuine is usually more expensive and in most case's is claimed to be better !!!!!!
avoid cheapies like the plague as they are just that (plagued) and if you have the bucks by all means go for franz and the like, after all they are specialists.
removing contaminents from oil will prolong the oils life and definitately prolong component life.
filtration, can't get enough of better i say. bloody good topic, russell
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FollowupID: 314762

Follow Up By: Member - Ed. C.- Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:24

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:24
Thanks Russell,
Pretty much what I wanted to "hear"...
FWIW, I've used R**o (not naming names) filters exclusively for 30-odd years, & have full confidence in them...
And yes, I have fitted a Frantz by-pass filter..
('99 GU Patrol 4.2td)
Regards, Ed. C.
Confucius say.....
"He who lie underneath automobile with tool in hand,
....Not necessarily mechanic!!"

Member
My Profile  Send Message

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FollowupID: 314765

Follow Up By: Russell from Synforce Lubricants - Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 23:40

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 23:40
hey glenno, you know that when you buy rx, your helping to put some one elses kids through uni and to provide jobs everseas, with cruiser oil your helping australian kids through uni and to provide jobs here.
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Reply By: ianmc - Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:48

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:48
Russell, back in the 1970's perhaps before you started to reproduce those uni graduates, the NRMA (I think) topped up a Holden Torana with a ptfe?(teflon) additive which is still popular and drove it for a while then emptied the sump & under supervision drove it from Sydney to Perth where it was pulled down, (empty sump & all).
It was found to be in v.good condition & I think it may have been refilled then driven again.
What do you think of teflon based additives??
I have used one in the gearbox for a while & it has made it freer when cold & like a hot knife thru butter when warm.
I also use it in the motor(Mits 2.5td) which has done 220,000 kms & it seems to be going better with age!

PS have you told the kids the HECS story?
AnswerID: 53004

Follow Up By: glenno - Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:51

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 22:51
I wont be helping them thru uni . LOL
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Follow Up By: Russell from Synforce Lubricants - Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 23:09

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 23:09
i think i am older than you think i am, i do rember that run.
i will never say all additives don't work, just most.
one thing to ponder on is .....
part of an oils "job" if you like, is to provide cooling and this is done by way of heat transfer from internal components to the oil and then from the oil to the sump surface with the "wind" passing by effecting heat transfer away from the sump.
it is hard to imagine how heat transfer could have been effected without any "fluid" available to provide same, unless there was insufficient friction to produce the heat.
other "jobs" are things like sealing rings to piston and to bore to maintain compression.
if there was nothing else in the sump, it must have worked some how. i i have heard of others that say what you say also.
Viscosities and overtreat can play a big part when it comes to gearboxes.
HECS, mmmm scarey, but i suppose i will have to approach that subject one day, not looking forward to that discussion. regards russell
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Follow Up By: Russell from Synforce Lubricants - Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 23:25

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 23:25
c'mon glenno, my kids need your money !!!!!
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Follow Up By: Russell from Synforce Lubricants - Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 23:55

Friday, Apr 02, 2004 at 23:55
g'night all, time for bed, will drop in tomorrow night.
i think i am getting hooked, may even look for a 4wd tomorrow (need sleep bad)
bye for now, russell
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Follow Up By: glenno - Saturday, Apr 03, 2004 at 09:00

Saturday, Apr 03, 2004 at 09:00
ok russell .
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Reply By: Coops (Pilbara) - Saturday, Apr 03, 2004 at 04:29

Saturday, Apr 03, 2004 at 04:29
Russell
Can you advise what my requirements would be for a 1HZ Diesel 80 series with 200K on the clock please. This will help me prepare my next order.
Am particularly interested in gearbox & transfer case as I have just today changed out diffs & engine oil so am good for a while with them but all info would be good so that I can jot it down in my service manual ready for next time.

Do you have an agent in the NW of WA or even Perth for that matter?

I actually sent you an e-mail previously via your website but you either didn't receive it or blew me off. I'm sure it was the former so no offence taken on my part.
AnswerID: 53021

Follow Up By: Russell from Synforce Lubricants - Saturday, Apr 03, 2004 at 10:17

Saturday, Apr 03, 2004 at 10:17
coops, thank you for the info re email, we did have some problems with the site recently, but pleased be assured that yours and any other enquirey is important to us.
For the tojo, gearbox is best with a 75w/85, GL4 of a quality brand but we do have a new product being trialled at the moment, even by some of the forumites, and so far the feed back (not from forumites) is good.
this product is designed to help with things like cold shift baulk and is way over treat on additives.
we also have a new diff oil coming on to the market in the next few weeks that has had remarkable feedback.
for future reference, cruiser oil in your engine.
currently no agent in WA, but we are at the moment negotiating with a chap with the view to setting up.
ta coops, russell
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Follow Up By: Coops (Pilbara) - Saturday, Apr 03, 2004 at 21:10

Saturday, Apr 03, 2004 at 21:10
make sure you let us know when the new gearbox product is available. I will hold off changing oil until then and may even go the diff stuff too even though I've just changed that as the flush will do it good.
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Follow Up By: Russell from Synforce Lubricants - Friday, Apr 30, 2004 at 21:49

Friday, Apr 30, 2004 at 21:49
coops, the new oils are out, check out our web site
russell
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Reply By: Member - jaksun - Saturday, Apr 03, 2004 at 10:48

Saturday, Apr 03, 2004 at 10:48
Hi Russel
other than Queensland do you have an agent in any other state.
AnswerID: 53040

Follow Up By: Russell from Synforce Lubricants - Saturday, Apr 03, 2004 at 16:57

Saturday, Apr 03, 2004 at 16:57
hello jaksun, most of our marketing is handled by HO, but we do have many retail outlets handling our product, some of which are ;
Aussie Auto stores
product also available through TJM megastores, not all stores stock it though.
numerious other parts store type outlets.
last count there was something like 87 outlets and expanding.
russell
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FollowupID: 314841

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