New Landcruiser & Patrol models

Submitted: Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 14:23
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With the new Cruiser and Patrol models due 2006, does anyone know how Toyota and Nissan find out what current owners and potential buyers want in a new model. Both models are very small in terms of production worldwide and Australia i believe, takes a large percentage of them. Having purchased two Patrols over the last four years and a potential of the new model, i'd like to have some input. Any clues? Regards Michael
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Reply By: Peter McGuckian - Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 14:28

Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 14:28
You would hope that they would take note of the sentiments on forum such as this and the patrol group. You would think they would be keen to get some focus groups together and getting a good sample would be relatively easy from here!
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Reply By: Roachie - Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 14:34

Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 14:34
Michael,

You could try logging on to Nissan Australia's web site. They may have a client feedback or contact option.
However, as much as I love my Nissans (poor sorry mongrel, aren't I???), I doubt whether they'd take any notice of what you or I say we want in a vehicle.

Look at what Toyota did to their landcruiser's front suspension. I haven't heard any serious 4 wheel driver (journo's, competition dudes etc) say anything positive about the IFS as far as off-road-ability is concerned. I acknowledge that they probably ride better on the black stuff now, but if they'd bothered to seek "expert" opinion and listened to it, they would never have done it.

I reckon Nissan will, unfortunately, go the same way.....& there's SFA you or I can do about it except vote with our feet (but there's not much by way of an alternative anymore anyway). The Patrol is the last mainstream 4x4 except for the landrover (are they mainstream???) to still use solid axles at both ends.

Cheers,

Roachie
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Follow Up By: Billy - Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 15:00

Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 15:00
...and the Jeep Grand Cherokee....
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 15:19

Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 15:19
Grand Cherokee is about as main stream as a Lada Niva
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Follow Up By: Michael - Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 15:20

Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 15:20
Hi Roachie, thanks for your input, I have a feeling Nissan at worst will offer both IFS and solid, probably IFS in the girls model (TI) and the petrol ST, anyway who knows. I"d like some more leg room, im only 6 feet tall and very cramped, I have 3 nephews 6' 3, 6'5 and 6'7", i bet none could drive my GU for any length of time. I know why they put Cruise control in some models.... give our right leg a break LOL. Nissan dont have a feedback area in their Web site, whoever monitored it would be run off their feet. Michael.
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Follow Up By: macca - Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 15:31

Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 15:31
I agree with you Truckster. I can still see the Black Polished "pretty car" sitting in the sons driveway. Though he is now talking about moving it on and you can bet it in the replacemaent wont be mainstream!
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Follow Up By: Roachie - Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 15:37

Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 15:37
Michael,

You're right about the cramped seating. I'm 6'2" and am bloody glad I'm not 6'3"!!!!!
As for your nephews................WHAT THE????????????? Are these blokes trying to form a modern-day team of Harlem Globe-Trotters or something?? They'd have no chance of fitting in a GU's driver's seat for any length of time.
Cheers,

Roachie
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Follow Up By: Michael - Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 15:59

Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 15:59
Roachie, Havnt you noticed, every generation is getting taller, Just have a look at some suits of amour 200 years old, the guys are 4'6". The young guys now tower over me and when i was young many years ago, i was considered tall. i'm 6 feet tall. Michael
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Follow Up By: Michael - Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 16:10

Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 16:10
Hey Roachie, I removed the plastic moulded stopper from behind the accelerator pedal and removed the accelerator pedal, bent it towad the floor 25mm and assembled, checked for full throttle and no load on the throttle body, The pedal arm them rests on the metal stopper that is behind the plastic one. WOW what a difference, it allows you to straighten your leg. Its hard to believe that small amount can make that much difference. Also it brings the pedal to a normal position as it should be. The original position is way to high. Takes 1/2 hour to do , best time you will spend. Michael
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Follow Up By: Roachie - Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 16:32

Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 16:32
Michael,
I read a week or so ago (might have been you who said it???) about removing that black plastic stopper and bending the pedal. Wouldn't that make the accelerator and brake pedals be at different heights? If so, did it take you long to get used to raising your foot a bit higher to get it onto the anchors?

Cheers,

Roachie
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Follow Up By: Michael - Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 16:43

Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 16:43
Roachie, No it wasnt me who mentioned it, Yes it feels a bit weird for a few days but is more natural than the current position and you soon ask yourself why you didnt do it earlier. My wifes GU has normal position and i hate driving it now, it really is positioned too close and too high. Try it, you can always put it back the way it was if you dont like it. Michael
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Follow Up By: uppy - Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 19:07

Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 19:07
Michael, I would not call the st 4800 petrol patrol a girls truck,It got 4x4 of the year last year. regards uppy
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Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 09:04

Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 09:04
Roachie,

I have just filled out my 12 month survey form where I have been able to talk of my concerns. Cabin space being one for me at 6'4" with long leg length. I find it best to take off my shoes and feet under the pedals with the cruise control in operation. In the coilcab there is not sufficient room to get the seat back but you can adapt as long as you don't need the foot on the go pedal. Have taken out the footrest too.

I also mentioned the springs and strength of rear suspension which has been a problem for me.

Unfortunately most of the questions were of the dealer relationship. Whether he had been in contact to see if the service was satisfactory. The last page was on whether I would buy another Nissan and some space to comment.
Cheers,
Who?
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Follow Up By: Michael - Thursday, Apr 08, 2004 at 21:19

Thursday, Apr 08, 2004 at 21:19
Hey Uppy, I said it "toungue in cheek" but if you read my post, i actually mentioned the TI. regards Michael
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Follow Up By: Michael - Thursday, Apr 08, 2004 at 21:22

Thursday, Apr 08, 2004 at 21:22
OHHH, you are right Uppy, i did mention the petrol..hhhmmm
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Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 15:21

Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 15:21
All they go on is whta the MAIN market wants. Genuine offroaders are about 10% of the sales of 4wds. So what do you think the other majority want?

Oodles of power? or economy?
Space for kids and DVD players?
IFS ghey suspension or coils??

Theres FA you can do but just take whats on offer.
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Follow Up By: Baz (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 15:27

Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 15:27
EXPLORER !!!

Baz.
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Follow Up By: Roachie - Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 16:33

Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 16:33
C'mon Baz,

Get real!!!! LOLOLOL

Cheers,

Roachie
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Follow Up By: Michael - Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 17:04

Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 17:04
Hey Truckster, Maybe you are right, 'ooodles of power', Is that why Nissan persist in running that stupid petrol Patrol add with the tyres on fire, playing 'tug of war'. Just what most people do on the weeking!!!
Or so they think.. Michael
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Follow Up By: Baz (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 18:07

Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 18:07
Hey, someone got to support them, aspecially when you own one, got a 2" lift today, look's tall, OME suspension gotta help. gotcha's all worried yet ???

Baz.
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Follow Up By: Roachie - Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 21:48

Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 21:48
Hey Baz,
Good to hear you've modified the exploder. The extra 2" will be quite noticeable no doubt.
What's got me worried is those 2 bloodhounds of yours that are hunting my relo's.......LOLOL
Cheers,
Woachie
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Follow Up By: uppy - Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 10:20

Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 10:20
Truckster,So genuine offroads dont drive petrol wagans,because they have oodles of power???. (L/Range tanks)I drive a evil petrol patrol.and i do go off road. Come on guys there is life outside the box.People drive petrols,the market is geared for their choice as well as desiel regards uppy
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 22:27

Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 22:27
Talk about missing the point Uppy.

I hate to tell you this but offroaders in 4wds wouldnt make up 35% of purchases.. that leaves a larger majority that would like a nice smooth ghey interior, pretty wheels and lovely looking outside, that can handle Coles carpark as well as dropping the kids off at school..

LRT dont work when one magazine recorded 54/100klms in a 4800 Patrol on one trip in sand... you would need a LRBdouble....

I never mentioned anything about offroaders not wanting petrol.
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Follow Up By: uppy - Thursday, Apr 08, 2004 at 01:01

Thursday, Apr 08, 2004 at 01:01
Truckster, In the past you mentioned that you didnt read and believe what 4wd magazines say because they are so biased. Where did you get this figure from? I read it in the Austrlian 4x4 monthly mag ( a toyota sponsored magazine?), seems like they must of made a mistake in their calculations. Some people like the power and don't feel a compulsion to drive through desserts at every opportunity without having to install a lrt. What's wrong with carrying jerry cans if you are sensible?
So what if Mum's buy 4x4's to pick up the kids? Ours is used as a school bus as well. regards uppy
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Monday, Apr 12, 2004 at 21:16

Monday, Apr 12, 2004 at 21:16
Uppy..

I dont read them, they arent even worth keeping in the dunny for emergency paper.

that was a quote brought up on the patrol list ages ago when the test was done. Some other poor sucker paid money for the magazine.

Whats wrong with numerous jerrys?? Why if you dont have to? Extra weight, room to store them, and using more fuel since your carrying more weight?

2 members of our club have traded the 4500 GU on diesel 4.2 since most of their work is long desert/remote trips. They now have more $ in their wallets too. One other would love to but now has his 4500 well sorted and his missus wont let him....

YMMV
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Reply By: GO_OFFROAD - Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 17:48

Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 17:48
I think IFS is well within the realms of use for most people who tour or go bush, and the added great ride and steering response that IFS brings as well.

I think some early IFS [pajero, hilux etc] have created a "IFS Phobia" to some people.

The US has 3 major rockcrawling vehicles now being developed with IFS, and they more development it gets, the better it will be.

A 100 IFS toyota has the same RTI as a standard GU, so there is no real loss of travel if comparing those 2 models, and the toyota can be ordered with twin factory lockers for <$900 which would help make up for any shortfall in travel over a live axle cruiser, for the .2% of the time someone may use the IFS to its limit.
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 18:35

Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 18:35
hmmmmm mite have to check the RTI's
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 19:06

Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 19:06
For sure Bonz, and please let us know what you find when you try them.
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 22:41

Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 22:41
You know what IFS stands for?

ITS F____ED SUSPENSION.. quite simple.. Why not all go back to leaves?
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 22:51

Tuesday, Apr 06, 2004 at 22:51
Why go back to leaves, when IFS is like coil was to leaves, another big step forward in drive comfort, and handling.

Offroad racing have been using it with up to 36" of wheel travel for many years, and when it gets as much development as live axles have had, will continue to be the option.

After all, back with leaves, horse and cart had live axle too.... but I notice your not in a horse and cart, and your truck is coil sprung truckster......8-)
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Follow Up By: Jayson - Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 07:10

Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 07:10
I'd prefer Truckster to go back to leaves because they didn't have computers and chat forums then and we wouldn't have to put up with his consistently negative one line responses. You might win the race on the most submissions truckster but only one or two might be worth reading and actually related to the original question.
Jayson
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Follow Up By: Baz (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 09:24

Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 09:24
No offence Jayson, but Truckster is intitled to say what he likes as long as it is not offencive that what forum's are for, whether you agree or not people are intitled to their opinion, IMHO.

Baz.
ps IFS is related to oringinal question.
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 11:04

Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 11:04
I note truckster commented on the topic, and not on personal likes and dislikes of others.

To understand trucksters aproach, you have to understand the drive, and motive behind them, by understanding the person, when you dont know life from other peoples perspectives, it can make it hard for you to glance over what is worth reading, and what is not ;-)

I know I wouldnt go back to live axle front end from IFS for touring, and 4wding after having one, though if I were building a comp truck, live axle would be the first choice, but IFS would be a consideration, just to be different. 8-)
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 13:18

Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 13:18
1) Darren dont agree and wont..

2) Jayson, (__0__) Insert tounge here..
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 13:38

Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 13:38
Hey truckster, with all your time on the net, i thought you would of found a spell checker you could of downloaded by now ;-)

[tongue I think you mean]
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Reply By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 12:35

Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 12:35
Truckster, I'll take you on with my F%%^ Suspension, tell me where my IFS is not going to take me? Have sailed through many a sticky situation where my ol' mates with Troppies and live axels etc have had 4 or 5 attempts. Ever own a IFS vehicle and taken it 4wding? Bloody hell you guys have such closed minds somtimes...
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 13:19

Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 13:19
Come for a nice run up Toolangi way....
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Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 13:21

Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 13:21
Yeah ok Truckster I'll head over from Perth on my lunch break.
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Follow Up By: GO_OFFROAD - Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 13:36

Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 13:36
Ive taken truckster on some of my trips, was funny hearing his trembling voice on the radio about how steep and slippery the hills were, and all the excuses about why his vehicle couldnt drive them ;-)

He hasnt asked me if he can come along on the same annual trip since 8-)
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 17:39

Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 17:39
Hahahaha you Guys! This is about 4wd-ing not bagging the T-Man. He has his opinion, and is entitled to it just as we are entitled to reading it or skipping it. He has the most amazing info on where to go to get stuff at the right price and will bend over backlwards to help, in fact I remember seeing a pic of him doing just that somewhere uo there hahahahah. He also reckons IFS is CARP, so be it.
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Reply By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 13:25

Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 13:25
Hey uppy, you've got petrol, I've got diesal, you've got live axel, I've got IFS, you have Nissan, I have Toyota do you reckon if we combined all of those together we might have a vehicle that would make Truckster happy, or is that impossible?
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 17:41

Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 17:41
A live axle 4.2 d Patrol would do the trick
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Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 17:56

Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 17:56
Hey Bonz just wondering about your Narva lights, do they have plastic mounts or metal ones? I had some Narvas on my rocky that were on there when I bought it and they broke off the first time I took it off road (they had plastic mounts) but the lights them selves were not too bad. (seen worse). I need some lights for my Surf, the factory ones have been removed but all of the switches and relays, looms etc are still there, should be simple job hooking up. The hi beams are pretty good, but if all the hard works done I might as well whack somthing on the front!
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Follow Up By: uppy - Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 18:10

Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 18:10
Jeff M,If we combine our trucks I think it would make half of the people happy and the other half unhappy .You can not please all the people all the time.As to make truckster happy. Will he would be happy with my live axles,unhappy with my petrol 4.2 ,so we will need to put your motor in he will be happy.Unhappy because its a toyo motor .So to answer your question. Let time take its cause and we will review it over a few brews regards uppy
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 20:01

Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 20:01
Hey Jeff (Good name that) The Narva's have a plastic body and plastic mount. Theyre just the plain old basic 170's for about $115 at the local autoshop, but theyre pretty robust, I've had thenm along all manner of bumpiness and theyre ok. I only got them due to the price (cheap) and they wrote up pretty good in one of the mags, and was so distraught that Narva's won that I went and got some, sad eh? That said they are a good light for a cheapie. I replaced my 20yo Hella 160's with them as the hello beams were falling out of the chrome body and had to be taped to keep them in on corrugated roads... All in all I want some Lightforce 240's but until the Narva's cark it I cant really justify them. I also have 100/130 H4's in the headlights and they are great too, all rewired thru relays and bigger wiring, scabbed a could of plugs off an old XD Falcon and joined them into the loom I made up. Much better than standard.

Geoff (Bonz)
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Reply By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 18:20

Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 18:20
Uppy, looks like I'll be catching up with Benny on Sat night for few drinks. If your interested let me know!
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Follow Up By: uppy - Thursday, Apr 08, 2004 at 01:05

Thursday, Apr 08, 2004 at 01:05
Ive taiked to Josie ,no problem,maybe go for a drive on sunday in our combine truck,will ring in the morning
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