Crazy New South Wales Regulation

Submitted: Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 10:14
ThreadID: 118958 Views:2843 Replies:10 FollowUps:20
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Earlier this year I sold my wonderful and trusty old 60 series via the EO Classifieds. It went to a reader from the Wagga area. He phoned me last night about a problem he is having registering it in NSW. Pure madness. I had replaced the OE seats wit a pair of very comfortable Honda buckets. The job was done by the leading and very well known company in Adelaide that does this sort of thing. It cost around $1000 for the install and engineering certification. The registration branch in NSW insists that the seats be taken out and original seats fitted before it can be registered. They agree that the seats I had were fitted at an excellent standard and comply with engineering requirements. It doesn't matter however as according to the regs the job has to be done in NSW. Nothing else counts!! I have no doubt at all the seats as fitted in Adelaide are a better, stronger, safer job than the original seat installation.
The new owner is quite P'd off by this, not with me, and he is very happy with the vehicle. But he sure isn't happy with the NSW regs.
This is total madness. I mean, whats the point of living in a Federation when we have stuff like this on the statute books? If I had a few hundred thousand to spare I would engage legal representation to take it to the High Court as a clear example of a hindrance to interstate trade. Hindering interstate trade is illegal under our constitution.
I wont identify the new owner, but as an EO reader, he might see this and add a few well chosen comments of his own.
Mike
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Reply By: Member - Mark (Tamworth NSW) - Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 10:44

Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 10:44
State Governments are the biggest impediment to progress and business in Australia. They are an anachronism, belonging to the first half of the last century and Tony Abbott wants to give more power to the states!
Their faults are best seen from outside the state capital cities, that is unfortunately why they won't change given the size of our capital cities.
Try your defence under Section 92 of the Constitution in the High Court, ..... impeding Free Trade between states.

Mark
AnswerID: 554156

Follow Up By: Australian Landscape Jewellery - Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 11:34

Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 11:34
There you have my total agreement. I have argued for years that the States are a complete waste of money. They add massively to the costs we pay in running parliaments, they duplicate areas of education, health etc and again this is a huge waste of money. There are two big winners. Governments of both parties who can spend years passing the buck between states and between states and the Commonwealth for the blame for all sorts of inaction. And of course those legal businesses who make fortunes from the never ending legal disputes between States and Fed.
The only positives I can see for States is as a basis for sports teams and those boundaries could easily be maintained for traditional purposes.
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Reply By: garrycol - Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 11:01

Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 11:01
Is quite normal - unfortunately. In many areas, State authorities will not recognise certified engineering mods from other States.

The new owner should have put some cheap seat covers on the seats and the authorities would have been none the wiser.
AnswerID: 554158

Reply By: Nomadic Navara - Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 11:16

Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 11:16
Quote "It doesn't matter however as according to the regs the job has to be done in NSW. Nothing else counts!!"

There is a simple work around. Pull the seats out and have them reinstalled in NSW by a competent person.
PeterD
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AnswerID: 554159

Follow Up By: Australian Landscape Jewellery - Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 11:25

Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 11:25
It's not a simple workaround unfortunately. They would still require an engineering certificate and be charged accordingly by the certifying person.
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Follow Up By: Gramps - Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 14:11

Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 14:11
How much is the engineering certificate ? Can't be that expensive.

Even if we persist with State Govts it's well and truly past time that they got their acts together and standardised as much as possible. Can't do that though can we, probably lose a few public servants (parasites).
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Follow Up By: GarryR - Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 15:20

Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 15:20
My son in law had to get and engineers certificate because he up graded his suspension. The certificate cost him $350- in Vic and then had to produce it to Vicroads for a new compliance plate (no charge)
location - Warragul -Victoria
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Follow Up By: Member - bbuzz (NSW) - Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 20:42

Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 20:42
I did that on the Central Coast with a 60 series and a pair of Ford Fairmont seats.
I had to get a blue slip for rego.
I am no engineer but the inspector was happy and the rego was adjusted to the vehicle being a 5 seater and not six.
Something not right, there.
Your new owner should be able to get a Blue Slip and then adjust the rego.

bkill
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Follow Up By: Australian Landscape Jewellery - Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 20:46

Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 20:46
Hi bbuzz. The problem is that the seats in my car were fitted and engineer certified in South Australia. NSW will not recognize an engineers certificate if it is not done in NSW, according to the Wagga motor Reg.
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Follow Up By: Australian Landscape Jewellery - Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 20:58

Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 20:58
Gramps, I think the problem is the pollies of both parties, not the public service. Neither Party is keen to push for State abolition although this would clearly be the easiest way to save mountains of taxpayer money. Both parties, despite what they say, find it convenient to other parliaments for ineffective legislation. Things like transport regulations, water, energy, health really should be planned and regulated on an Australia wide basis. I can't think of a single politician who advocates getting rid of state parliaments. The newspapers, especially the Murdoch press, would go ballistic.

Sorry, when I made the original grumble , more or less in sympathy with the bloke in NSW who bought my car, I didn't mean to get into a broader political discussion.
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Follow Up By: Charlie - Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 21:32

Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 21:32
It absolutely does not matter were the work is done as long as the engineer is happy it meets the standard, there are two engineers in Wagga,,they charge whatever they like so it could be a couple of hundred or a couple of thousand, ask for some quotes.
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Reply By: Notso - Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 11:26

Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 11:26
Ah, this Federation of Sovereign States has a lot to answer for. Still I suppose it's better than the alternative of having a whole heap of different countries on the Australian land mass.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could just have one set of rules for the whole country. One license, one rego system, one set of laws. The burden on industry must be huge, trying to comply with all the different rules and regulations as a national company with branches in each state and territory must be a nightmare.
AnswerID: 554160

Follow Up By: garrycol - Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 13:48

Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 13:48
That is what a lot of people do not realise/understand that we are a Federation of Independent States (Countries). The initial idea was that each State would manage it own affairs and collect its own taxes with the Federal Government just managing international affairs (a simplification). Over the years the States have traded their powers away for trinkets so that the Federal Government is far more powerful than was ever intended.

The US is the same and many of their States are far worse that us as far as cars go. Many cars registrable in most states of the US cannot be registered in California.

However if we had to get rid of one level of Government it would be councils rather than State governments.
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 14:19

Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 14:19
HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!
last absalute last thing Id like is uniform laws amongs the states
you can be rest assured the worst of the worst laws (mostly from NSW of course) would be inflicted to the rest of the country

here in WA if you want different seats you just change them - cars never go over the pits thees no pink slip no yellow slip or any other color slip, theres no crazy having to pay your rego THEN getting 3rd part insurance
it goes further too - as A pistol owner I dont want crazy eastern states restrictions on how many times each individual pistol has to be used etc
you can keep your Eatern states regulations over there thank you very much
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Follow Up By: Notso - Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 14:48

Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 14:48
Might have to dig that moat along the WA NT, SA border Eh!
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Reply By: Member - Ross N (NSW) - Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 14:23

Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 14:23
I, also had the run around after purchasing a bog standard boat & trailer made by the largest manufacturer in Qld but the boat & trailer were registered in Victoria. I was a resident of NSW.. You would think it was simple to transfer ownership. Not a bit of it.
AnswerID: 554165

Reply By: vk1dx - Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 21:40

Sunday, May 24, 2015 at 21:40
From a mate in Wagga: "his only solution was, go to the wreckers, get some seats suitable, change them for rego and than put the other ones back in."

Phil
AnswerID: 554177

Follow Up By: Australian Landscape Jewellery - Monday, May 25, 2015 at 11:01

Monday, May 25, 2015 at 11:01
Phil, it sounds as though you know the bloke who bought my car. If so, could you pass on the info in the post from RJW in post 7. I'll try to contact him directly as well.
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Monday, May 25, 2015 at 12:27

Monday, May 25, 2015 at 12:27
Not him Mike.

I got that from my niece's husband. They have a 100 series. Got it a few years back. I think you said yours was a 60 series.
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Follow Up By: Australian Landscape Jewellery - Monday, May 25, 2015 at 12:34

Monday, May 25, 2015 at 12:34
Thanks a lot Phil. I managed to contact him this morning and passed your info along.
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FollowupID: 840197

Reply By: R.J.W. - Monday, May 25, 2015 at 09:29

Monday, May 25, 2015 at 09:29
I think the fellow should maybe politely go up one level at the RMS. I had the exact problem a few years ago with a tour vehicle that was engineered in NSW with extra seats (Landrover Defender) then taken to Queensland. They wanted a local engineer to re certify it. I forget the exact details but on this issue there is a national code and so long as the Engineer is recognised they have reciprocal arrangements. After talking to a senior person at the Qld Transport he advised just to get a mod plate fitted. I still had to go to a certified inspection station and get the plate fitted but they accepted the NSW Engineers report. Cost $35.00 - $50.00 Hope this helps Rob
AnswerID: 554185

Follow Up By: Australian Landscape Jewellery - Monday, May 25, 2015 at 10:56

Monday, May 25, 2015 at 10:56
Thanks Rob, I will pass this on to the bloke who bought the vehicle. What you are saying makes sense and hopefully should be acceptable to The Wagga RTA.
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FollowupID: 840189

Follow Up By: TomH - Monday, May 25, 2015 at 11:12

Monday, May 25, 2015 at 11:12
Sounds strange as I had the seating altered in my Cruiser and had it engineer approved and the Mod plate was accepted Aus wide.

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FollowupID: 840192

Follow Up By: Australian Landscape Jewellery - Monday, May 25, 2015 at 11:23

Monday, May 25, 2015 at 11:23
Yes Tom, I agree that should be the case, but it seems as though it isn't necessarily so, at least in NSW. From the responses here it seems that others have had similar issues..
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Reply By: The Landy - Monday, May 25, 2015 at 12:59

Monday, May 25, 2015 at 12:59
I think there is a program underway to have engineers certified to a common standard for all states across Australia, which isn’t the case presently.

Seemingly, there have been flaws in engineer’s being certified in various States with a wide variance of experience and certification guidelines.

At least, this is how it has been explained to me.

The reality as it stands now is that any vehicle modification will need to be recertified if a vehicle is registered in another State. The only exception will be modifications that were undertaken prior to the compliance plate being issued pre-initial registration.

For example, a GVM upgrade prior to the initial registration and compliance plate issuance of a new vehicle will be able to re-registered in any State without further certification. However, if upgraded post registration it will need to be recertified when transferring the registration to another State.

For many standard modifications they will comply with Federal ADR requirements and the process of recertification should be fairly straightforward. For example, I have a Lovell’s GVM upgrade done post initial registration so if I seek to register in another State it will need to be certified.

The problem you describe sounds a little unique in so far as if an engineer qualified to certify is will to sign it off in NSW if should be a problem.

cheers, Baz - The Landy
AnswerID: 554195

Follow Up By: The Landy - Monday, May 25, 2015 at 14:59

Monday, May 25, 2015 at 14:59
Last line "should not be a problem".

!!
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Reply By: Zippo - Monday, May 25, 2015 at 20:32

Monday, May 25, 2015 at 20:32
Athol's on the sideline here, biting his lip hard. Would welcome his input on this.
AnswerID: 554223

Reply By: farmer jay - Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 20:23

Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 20:23
I borrowed a set of standard 60 series front seats, got the blue slip without a problem. Tomorrow the Honda bucket seats go back in and no one will be any the wiser! A big thanks to Mike for selling me a bloody rippa of a car, for being so helpful with the delivery and for helping me out with this bull bleep with the seats, you are champ mate!! Lets hope some of this madness disappears soon.
AnswerID: 554313

Follow Up By: garrycol - Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 21:12

Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 21:12
Well they will know all about it cause you told everyone on her - so everyone will be the wiser :-)
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Follow Up By: farmer jay - Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 21:43

Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 21:43
I didn't think of it that way Garry, but you are spot on!
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