Engine miss in d4d prado

Submitted: Monday, May 25, 2015 at 17:05
ThreadID: 118971 Views:6100 Replies:8 FollowUps:13
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Hi all
In the last 3 months or so, I've noticed a slight miss occasionally.. On the weekend, we went to greencape, near Eden , bout 4 hour drive, noticed this miss a few times on the way down, and thought it seemed a bit more frequent.
On the way home, coming up the mountain through Pambula, it started to miss quite badly, lasted for maybe 15 seconds, thought I was going to have to pull over, it then cleared its self, with me pumping the throttle a bit.. And from then on it ran really well, no more missing, or flat spotting, no warning lights have ever come on the dash. I'll be keeping a close watch, till the next service in 6 weeks time..
My question is could this have been caused by a bit of air in the fuel line, maybe not bleed out properly from last service, and it got to the critical stage, then cleared its self?
This is the first diesel I've owned, so not sure... I've asked the question elsewhere, and have read about a problem with a flat spot, caused by the ecu, but the bad missing then clearing is not mentioned in this problem, it's just a hesitation around the 2000rpm mark... Any thoughts to help me get my head around it, or suggestions, would be greatly appreciated... Sorry for the long rave... It's a manual 150 prado.... Cheers Odog
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Reply By: Jackolux - Monday, May 25, 2015 at 19:16

Monday, May 25, 2015 at 19:16
Its most likely a injector problem , I would not stuff around take it to a Fuel Injection Service and get it checked out . If you hole a piston you will be up for huge dollars .
You are probably up for new injectors .
AnswerID: 554219

Reply By: Member - kyle46 - Monday, May 25, 2015 at 20:40

Monday, May 25, 2015 at 20:40
I have this problem too with my work hilux. I think mine is fuel related more specific shell fuel which is problem as I only have a shell card
AnswerID: 554224

Reply By: Mick O - Monday, May 25, 2015 at 21:53

Monday, May 25, 2015 at 21:53
O-d,

mate any number of issues from a fuel leak, a pin hole in a fuel line or even an inner injector casing. It could be fuel issues in the pump or a filter problem or as mine was on the VDJ79 V8D, a suction control valve.

Has the engine light come on at any stage? Have you had the OBD interrogated for fault codes? That may go a long way to identifying a specific issue and save you a lot of time and worry.

Check for fault codes first. Your mechanic or Toyota dealer should be able to help.

Cheers

Mick
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trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
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Follow Up By: Member - Odog - Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 17:13

Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 17:13
G'day Mick
I've noticed it miss 4/5 times in the last 3/4 months, so slight, you think to yourself, did I do that with the throttle, or was it a miss..
When we headed down the coast on the weekend, thought I felt it a few times, and the wife did too... Thought it felt a bit more frequent..
On the way home, I felt it a couple of times, then it started to miss/surge... Like a blocked fuel filter in a petrol vehicel... Being in traffic on a narrow road, I pumped the throttle a few times, and off she went, all good, the car ran really well after this, haven't felt it miss since. I haven't had any lights or alarms go off, the water watch is all good.. Just thought someone may had had similar thing... I sort of thought It may have been a bit of air in the fuel line, and has cleared it by its self.. If it was something more, wouldn't it be still running funny, or light on the dash.. Just not sure on who to take it to, as I feel some will tell you only what you need to know.. Or just what suits them..
Thank Mick.. Cheers Odog
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Reply By: Member - Leigh (Vic) - Monday, May 25, 2015 at 23:58

Monday, May 25, 2015 at 23:58
Not sure what your actual cause is but I'd suggest you have your injectors checked to ensure they are within spec. This seems to be a common problem. Secondly I'd stop driving it if you are blowing any white smoke and head back to the dealer asap. Pradopoint is a very good site to research issues with the D4D and perhaps post your issue. The EGR system in these common rail systems can also be problematic with excessive carbon deposits forming in the inlet manifold and restricting air flow. The EGR generally cannot be blocked off completely so some form of filtering the crankcase gases before they enter the turbo could be considered. Short cold runs are not conducive to keeping these problems at bay and a few stints of driving your vehicle as if you stole it may assist to reduce carbon in the inlet manifold. These engines, as I am learning first hand, need to be watched closely. Good luck with finding the problem. Cheers
AnswerID: 554228

Follow Up By: Member - mechpete - Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 08:35

Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 08:35
Leigh

morning mate ,
how are you going with your problem ,have you heard from the dealer .
cheers fig
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Follow Up By: Bigfish - Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 09:26

Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 09:26
The EGR can happily be blocked off completely. I have a Pajero and like the Prado is very suspect to fouling up manifold. Many people in the know block the EGR system of their Pajeros with no problems in 100,s of thousands of kilometres. I use an electronic plug and play version others put blanking plates in.

cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Leigh (Vic) - Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 10:06

Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 10:06
Hi Pete, hope to have prognosis later today. No.4 injector is way out of spec though. Call you later when I find out the rest.
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Follow Up By: Member - Leigh (Vic) - Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 10:13

Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 10:13
Hi Bigfish, I hear what you are saying but for many Prado D4D's this will bring up a check code unless a relief hole of about 7mm? is tapped into the blanking plate. There are some, as you say, who have got away with no relief. This whole common rail stuff is becoming a real headache particularly given my vehicle is low mileage, 55K!
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Follow Up By: Bigfish - Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 10:28

Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 10:28
As I said Leigh I use the SPV mod. My car was brand new when I put it on and I have not had any fault codes come up (have an Ultragauge). Many others who use the electronic module also have no fault codes come up. Agree some who have the blanking plate have had to drill small hole to eliminate fault code.

Anyone buying a common rail should have a secondary fuel filter and the EGR mod. I also run a provent.
cheers
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Reply By: Joe Fury - Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 00:34

Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 00:34
G'day Odog

I am not a Prado diesel owner but oddly enough I have experienced the aftermath of what a Prado diesel engine failure can bring on an unsuspecting tourist very recently.

The story of the diesel Prado engine fail is rather long and quite personal for the couple who went through the experience, the D4D engine actually had/has a factory recall on it for injector seats/seals, apparently this recall work was done by a leading Sydney based Toyota dealership prior to the trip , but the Prado failed miserably about 185 Km's south of Newman in Western Australia, the logistics in rescuing a broken down 4wd and 20 ft caravan are enormous but achievable and for most part paid for by the Prado owners insurance cover the eventual repairs to the engine are another matter and at just under $18,000 very costly and no doubt a massive legal headache for the owner.

So check the various Prado web pages and hunt down the injector related stories then armed with this information take the D4D to your nearest Toyota service centre and state your case and maybe you can avoid a huge expense ~ Oh what a feeling!!

Safe travels : Joe Fury
AnswerID: 554229

Follow Up By: Jackolux - Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 06:22

Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 06:22
That's basically what I said , don't stuff around just go get it checked
I'm speaking from experience I had a Hilux with the same motor
Listen to Joe and I , or it could end up costing you thousands it's good advice .
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 09:04

Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 09:04
Agree with this also

The $ stakes are too high to stuff around with an Internet diagnosis

Have it looked at by a competent mechanic
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Follow Up By: Keir & Marg - Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 09:47

Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 09:47
Sounds like you might be in or near Canberra, in which case go to Queanbeyan Diesel Service, and ask for Chris
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Reply By: Member - Odog - Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 15:28

Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 15:28
Thanks everyone..
I am in Queanbeyan, called into toyota this arvo, said they would do cold start test and get the injector values.. It hasn't missed a beat since the bottom of the hill near Pambula.. Not all that keen on toyota, gave me a heap of excuses... It's only got 40k on the clock.
If it was still a bit obvious there is a problem, I'd get it straight into someone.. There is no smoke, no warning lights, water watch is fine.. Next scheduled service is about six weeks away... Thinking just to keep an eye on things till then, anymore miss and I'll book it in.. I was looking at a scanguage last week... When's Father's Day?...lol.. Thanks again..
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Reply By: Denco Diesel and Turbo - Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 16:29

Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 16:29
Scott here from Denco Diesel:

I don't believe it is an air issue as air will effect the pressure in the system which in turn will bring on a light. The miss is more than likely an injector issue, you could ask the dealer to do an injector comparison test to determine if there is a faulty injector and which one it is.

Missing is generally caused from slow solenoid response time and this can generally be picked up with a scan tool.



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Follow Up By: Member - Odog - Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 17:25

Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 17:25
Thanks Scott
Is it normal, if a faulty injector, for it to only miss now and then, but still run fine?.. Seems to be running really well now... I have been looking at the scanguage, to buy... Think I need one.. Just felt exactly like a blocked up fuel filter in a petrol vehicle... Just before it cleared its self..
Cheers Odog
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Follow Up By: Denco Diesel and Turbo - Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 10:03

Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 10:03
Hi Odog
Missing is generally an Injector issue and mainly occurs whilst cold as the computer alters the pilot injection and timing to aid emissions. Scanning the vehicle cold will give a better indication of which Injector is faulty. Pilot injection (multiple injections on the same cycle) occurs at rail pressure below 40MPa and this pressure is required at low delivery (idle and light load) and injector issues are easier to detect at this range. If you have it scanned by a Toyota dealer or a Denso dealer that has a DST-2 scanner they should be able to look at the history of faults stored to determine the issue. Most scan tools can't do this. An Injector can come good and it could be fuel quality related as response time can be effected so try a known good fuel source and get it scanned. If you are still in trouble give me a call..

Scott
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Follow Up By: Member - Odog - Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 15:24

Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 15:24
Thanks Scott,
I called into toyota this arvo, sat down with one of the blokes, he was really helpful, and supportive, booked in next week to do the cold start, and check any codes and updates... Much nicer guy than the bloke I spoke to yesterday ( he was sitting at the next desk) .. I'm feeling a lot better, and a bit more confident in toyota... The vehicle ran out of warranty in February, bout the time I first noticed the miss/hesitation, basically just after being serviced by them.. Thanks again, I've read a mag, with you in it, about crds, when, how and why, they can go bang.. I've read it over and over... Lol.. Thanks heaps.. Cheers
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Reply By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 17:34

Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 17:34
My next door neighbour with a Paj had exactly the same problem. Surging & missing intermittenlty.

In and out of two different dealers numerous times with upmteen ECU / Injector / Diag tests with no sucess - dealers were starting to make noises about new injectors / turbo rebuild etc... etc..

He decided to have a poke around himself and noticed a crack and a loose fitting on one of the air hoses from the filter to the ECU unit.... spat the dummy and got them to replace the air hose and clamp it down properly - Paj has run like a top since. Suspect the problem manifested itself when the engine was under load and tortion twisted the air hose...

Sometimes these issues can be simple things...................
AnswerID: 554269

Follow Up By: Member - Odog - Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 18:21

Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 18:21
That's what I'm hoping... Simple thing.. Thanks Scott. Cheers
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