LPG GAS CYLINDER

Submitted: Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 22:36
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Just got back from NZ and had the gas cylinders filled a couple of time whilst there first they had to test then " they were new cylinders " then register them then check the volume of them then told me that they by law are only allowed to fill them to 85% when i asked why was told it was to allow for expansion, when they are filled up here in Australia they just fill them to the top and some time it over fows as i am sure most have seen i would have thought that the cylinder's in Australia would have been at a higher risk of expaning than in NZ, can anyone explain.
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Reply By: Wayne (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 22:55

Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 22:55
They were short of gas that week and could only fill to 85%.

Wayne
AnswerID: 53638

Reply By: Ray (Geelong) - Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 23:05

Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 23:05
Different countries, different regulations. You will find the building code is also more strict in NZ than OZ..more timber in houses etc
AnswerID: 53640

Follow Up By: 10 Para (Qld) - Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 23:34

Wednesday, Apr 07, 2004 at 23:34
Yes but what about the expansion, funny being a builder here in australia i looked at a lot of buildings in NZ and thought that the oppisite was the case, it would appear that just about anyone can build there without anr registration at all, just like the old days here that was fun then now you cant seem to do anything without paying for some sort of licence or fee and do we get a better house i think not, and do subbie not get ripped of still i think so, and are there shonks out there i think so.
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Follow Up By: Ray (Geelong) - Thursday, Apr 08, 2004 at 00:35

Thursday, Apr 08, 2004 at 00:35
Yes it's rather strange about the expansion because the tanks in lpg vehicles are only filled to what is it 80 or 85% here in OZ. When I lived in NZ anyone could build a house but it must conform to the building regs and the inspectors were quite strict, well they were with my house but I remember my brother who was a national manager for a large construction company in both countries at different times saying that the NZ regs required more steel, concrete, timber compared to OZ and he was a quanity surveyor so one would think he would know. Still that was a fair while ago now and things do tend to change over time. Many years ago on a stinking hot day I pulled into the servo with a nearly empty lpg tank to fill up and couldn't get any in. I put it down to pressure build up with the heat. The vehicle had been in the sun all day and I had only driven a short distance to the servo. I continued on for a few more K's pulled into the servo and filled up. Unfortunately there's shonks in all walks of life, picking who they are is the tricky part.
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Reply By: NathanK - Thursday, Apr 08, 2004 at 09:53

Thursday, Apr 08, 2004 at 09:53
the part about being 'new' is similar to here in AU - gas cylinders have a usable life and it's generally stamped on the top of the bottle. if it's over that date, it's illegal to refill it.

whether the operator actually checks it or not, is unknown.
AnswerID: 53662

Reply By: Member - Mal (Brisbane) - Thursday, Apr 08, 2004 at 11:34

Thursday, Apr 08, 2004 at 11:34
How do they know when it is 85% full?????????
AnswerID: 53670

Reply By: daddy - Thursday, Apr 08, 2004 at 13:45

Thursday, Apr 08, 2004 at 13:45
Hi Para, with out going into too much detail the gas you see escaping is actually vapour. When the cylinder is being filled, the LPG is in a liquid form because of the pressure it's stored at. The top portion of the container when full is vapour(15%)and the lower portion is in liquid state (85%). Gas, when compressed turns to a liquid. Gas can be compressed, liquid can't. So if you filled a cylinder to the top with LPG (LIQUIFIED PETROLEUM GAS) it would have nowhere to expand when the ambient temperature increased and therefor be expelled through the pressure relief valve. LPG increases by 1/273 of it's volume with every degree rise in temperature (celcius). The contents of an LPG cylinder will expand by 100% when exposed to a relatively minor fire that only generates a temperature of 273 degrees celcius. I'll have to go and have a beer now, I'm exhausted
AnswerID: 53685

Reply By: KiwiAngler - Thursday, Apr 08, 2004 at 15:29

Thursday, Apr 08, 2004 at 15:29
This is one of the things that I have noticed since moving here 3 years ago. Compared to NZ the average service station forecourt atendant has a very casual aproach to LPG.
In NZ the first thing you have to do is sign a register which asks for your name adress an telephone number (amazng the number of "Richard Cranium's" live in NZ whose adress is c/o Parliament House Rd and telephone number 111 :-))
Then the attendant dons rubber gloves, safety goggles and checks the bottle test date/expiry date and tare weight. The m/t bottle is then put on a set of electronic scales and an earth strap attached. Then the LPG fill hose is attached and a soapy solution brushed on to check for any leaks. The releif valve is cacked and the LPG flows in. Once the vapour is escaping out of the relief valve it is shut off. The LPG hose is disconnected and the valve re-soaped to ensure no leaks.The weight of the gas is recorded electronically and sent to the cashier where you only pay for the gas you receieved, not what the capacity of the tank .
At my local 'servo' here a even Hills, Sydney, it goes like this.
I put my LPG cylinder (which may acualy not be completely /t) onto the concrete beside the LPG tank. I then go into the 'servo' and ask for my LPG tank to be flled to which he says "Can't you fill it? It's not difficult" I of course say "No thanks, I would like you to fill it". Reluctantly the person extracts himself from the chair that has all but moulded itself to his bum and ambles out to where my tank sits waiting. It is put onto an m/t plastic milk crate and the LPG hose attached and the pressure relief valve opened and the gas allowed to go in. At this point the 'attendant' stops attending and returns to his chair in the office where his bum again makes contact with the seat. Meanwhile I have moved 5mtrs up wind. Why? Because the next time my 'attendant' will emerge is when the LPG vapour and by now some of the liquid has been flowing out of the releif valave for some time, even though I have been into the office to tell him about it (se why I am now up wind)
He ambles over to the cylinder, closes the valve, unscrews the LPG ftting and walks back to the office.
I in turn have had to pick up the cylinder and take it over to the water tap to wash off the yellow deposit from the LPG vapour that is now running down the side of the tank.
Once I have put the flled tank into my 4b I go into the ffce to pay where I pay for 9kg of gas, regardless if there was still .5kg in when we started or not.

Not a crticism just pointing out the 'subtle' differences. :-)
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Follow Up By: Member -Bob & Lex (Sydney) - Thursday, Apr 08, 2004 at 17:37

Thursday, Apr 08, 2004 at 17:37
Nice story, but why didn't you just turn it off yourself ?
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FollowupID: 315390

Follow Up By: KiwiAngler - Thursday, Apr 08, 2004 at 18:16

Thursday, Apr 08, 2004 at 18:16
Because:

I didnt have:

Training
Safety glasses
Rubber gloves.
I am paying for someone to fill it for me.

How's that for starters.

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Follow Up By: 10 Para (Qld) - Friday, Apr 09, 2004 at 09:24

Friday, Apr 09, 2004 at 09:24
Just what i have been talking about, i think that i have found the answer went down the the local camping store and grilled the operater yesterday and was told that inside all australian gas bottles there is a brass dropper and he showed it to me when the bottle gets filled it will only allow it to be filled to 80% so that explains it, also grilled him the cold vapar escaping after filling and he said that no way would it form ice and have any effect on causeing a leak in the bottle.
Regards
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FollowupID: 315426

Follow Up By: Willem - Saturday, Apr 10, 2004 at 06:34

Saturday, Apr 10, 2004 at 06:34
Don't you just love Australia !!!!!!!!!!!

We spent some time in NZ coming back from an around the world trip. Declared a wooden monkey which we had received a present in Africa. B....y hell !..the rigmarole we had to go through with at least a dozen people with mobile phones and very stern looking and explaining the complicated rules. Anyway, got the monkey back out of quarantine on our departure. Same hassle.

Arrived in Sydney and declared the monkey again. "Yeah, no worries mate......that is a very old borer hole in the wood...cheers"

No criticism..them are the facts....:-)
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FollowupID: 315484

Follow Up By: 10 Para (Qld) - Saturday, Apr 10, 2004 at 07:14

Saturday, Apr 10, 2004 at 07:14
Spent most of the last 20 years travelling the world playing golf and the what with the mad cows thing and sars there's only about 2 countrys left now that i don't mind waiting around to be check and that's Australia & New Zealand, you think the monkeys bad try impoting a car to Australia mine is is still on the docks been there since 3.00am Wednesday and i am told that we might get it next Friday, i even had it all steamed cleaned before it was shipped and it's only coming from NZ not bloody Africa. Between the 2 countrys its hard to choose a good balance is 6 in NZ for the summer and 6 Months in Australia for the winter that means your in NZ for the fishing season and in Australai for in weather that you can travel in, although there are overall less restrictions in NZ than in Australia, anyway both great place and we should all help to protect them.
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FollowupID: 315488

Reply By: navaraman - Thursday, Apr 08, 2004 at 16:11

Thursday, Apr 08, 2004 at 16:11
Sounds like the servo I used to go to KiwiAngler. How long before someone's mobile phone, dicarded ciggie, etc comes into contact with escaping LPG vapour and makes a rather loud BANG.
AnswerID: 53699

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