I have been burnt - Be warned

Submitted: Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 14:37
ThreadID: 119359 Views:4981 Replies:9 FollowUps:16
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Last July I bought a Gentrax generator from Outbax Camping through ebay. It was cheap, had the capacity for what I needed and a 12 month warrantee so what was the risk?

Well ... read on.

When I unboxed the item it looked well made and a test run was satisfactory.

So off we go on our first trip with our brand new gene.

It only ran for a total of 9 hours running before it stopped.

After that it would only start, run for a second or so then quit when the automatic choke cut out. If I held the choke on it would splutter along for as long as I had my finger on the lever.

When we got back I contacted Outbax - by email through ebay. They do not publish a phone number on their website and the only way of contacting them from there is with a form and I wanted a record of my communications with them.

There followed a series of emails where they asked me to check a number of things including does it have a spark? (der - it will run after a fashion) and pulling all the exterior panels off the machine and re-pluging in all the electrical connectors.

At this point I asked them to arrange for a repair.

They pointed me to their website and asked me to agree in writing to their warrantee which states in part:

"Outbaxcamping offers a 12 month warranty on all products from the date of purchase, unless otherwise stated. Outbaxcamping warrants its products against defects in materials and/or workmanship. If a defect arises and a valid claim is received by Outbaxcamping within 30 days of purchase, Outbaxcamping may, at its option, repair the products, provide replacement parts, arrange a full replacement or arrange a refund minus handling and freight charges. If a defect arises and a valid claim is received by Outbaxcamping after 30 days of purchase, Outbaxcamping will replace the parts needed to repair the products. "

My italics.

Parts only? Hmmm. Does that comply with Australian consumer law?

I was not willing to sign up to that so OK off I go to Consumer and Business Services in SA who confirmed that the supplier is responsible for the repair (or replacement). After another 2 months of negotiation and finally a few phone calls where I actually spoke to a company rep they finally agreed to supply a part. It turned up this week after a 2 month wait and it is:

Some sort of fuel port - probably unrelated to the issue. (it will run as long as I hold the choke held on, if I let it go there is a positive shut down.)

The wrong part anyway. The supplied bit of plastic has 3 ports, the one installed in the machine between the fuel tap and filter has 4!


Stay away from this mob.

If what you buy works well all is good. If you have any problems you are in for a long uphill battle.

You have been warned and I may have a learned a lesson, but who knows. :o)

Cheers

Peter



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Reply By: vk1dx - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 15:07

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 15:07
Looks to me that you should have done a little more research before buying. Seven (7) red feedbacks in the last month would scare me off them.

Sorry mate but to spend that much for an item from a seller in Australia, I would have thought that you would have looked for a street address and phone number first. No phone or contact = don't buy. And then you opened it up and fiddled. That you should not have done it can very easily void your warranty. Even though they said to do it. A big no no.

Best of luck mate.

Phil
AnswerID: 556555

Follow Up By: Member - Bigred13 - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 15:35

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 15:35
Hi Peter, sorry to hear about your problem,please keep us up to speed on what the outcome is ??. That same company last year I ordered some solar panels from , and after two weeks did not arrive so emailed them and told them to deliver in 4 days or refund money ,next day got a phone call and they said that their warehouse had suffered fire damage and would you know it , the size panels I needed were burnt,but there was more on the way next week arriving in store .Next week or 10 days I rang them and told them to refund my money, or the consumer affairs would get to hear about it ,two days later my money was returned, so I guess I was lucky .
Hope it all is ok in the end.
John
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Follow Up By: Pete Jackman (SA) - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 15:38

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 15:38
Thanks Phil,

There were no red feedbacks in the month I looked and they do have a street address (warehouse) in Wetherill Park NSW.

And I have kept copies of their instructions to open up and fiddle.

I suspect I will get no joy from them, I was just alerting others to my experience. They are a big seller on EBAY (23K sales).

Cheers

Peter
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 15:56

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 15:56
Bit of bad luck hey!!!!

As you said: Once bitten . . . . . .

Mate it can happen down the street as well. I always wonder how come the local hardware place can sell mutli out let boards when they are suposed to be compliant. But then again- are they? They are pluggable and therefore it is our responsibility to only plug in compliant equipment. A bloody merry-go-round!!

Have you tried Paypal to at least get your hard earned funds back? That is if you used Paypal. They have been excellent with us in about 5 years.

Catchya
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Follow Up By: Member - Munji - Friday, Jul 03, 2015 at 06:32

Friday, Jul 03, 2015 at 06:32
Apologies for the ignorance here.
What is a red feedback?
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Friday, Jul 03, 2015 at 08:38

Friday, Jul 03, 2015 at 08:38
A negative or bad feedback on ebay showing that either side may have been had, duped. made a bad mistake etc. In other words a report of bad delaings. They can be posted against either the seller or buyer.

In this case bad/negative feedback has been made by multiple buyers against the bad dealings of the seller who this bloke purchased the generator from. One red feedback is enough for me to question buying from a seller.

Clear as mud? I hope not

Cheers

Phil
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Reply By: Member - ACD 1 - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 16:50

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 16:50
Looks like you got a bargain.

You got 30 days. This is the warranty blurb I just pulled from their website:

Outbaxcamping offers a 12 month warranty on all products from the date of purchase, unless otherwise stated. Outbaxcamping warrants its products against defects in materials and/or workmanship. If a defect arises and a valid claim is received by Outbaxcamping within 15 days of purchase, Outbaxcamping may, at its option, repair the products, provide replacement parts, or arrange a full replacement. If a defect arises and a valid claim is received by Outbaxcamping after 15 days of purchase, Outbaxcamping will replace the parts needed to repair the products. The warranty period for commercial use is 3 months.

Hope it all works out and you get your money back

Cheers

Anthony
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Reply By: Roachie.kadina.sa.au - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 17:00

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 17:00
I'm the sort of bloke that loves a bargain..... but when it comes to "expensive" gear like tools, cars and .... well.... gen-sets, I only ever buy good quality stuff.

I'm sorry you got burned, but this is a valuable lesson; stick with the likes of Honda or Yamaha (just my opinion of course).
AnswerID: 556558

Reply By: jamesw - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 17:04

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 17:04
I purchased a portable solar panel kit from this mob via there Ebay store. I got a full refund from them, after a few threats from me to expose them and providing very negative feedback via Ebay. Luckily I live not too far away and they move very quickly when you turn up on there door step.They sell rubbish. Full stop.

James
AnswerID: 556559

Reply By: Notso - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 17:07

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 17:07
Basically Australian Consumer Law requires that an item be Fit For Purpose. I would think that something that only worked for 9 hours wasn't "Fit For Purpose".

Worth talking to Consumer affairs if you have all the documentation of your dealings with the supplier.
AnswerID: 556560

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 17:58

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 17:58
Is fit for purpose and quality of product the same?

Should we expect a $200 knock off to work as well as the $1,000 one?

We don't expect a $2.00 no name spanner or screwdriver in the bargain bin to perform like a quality equivalent so is it any different?
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Follow Up By: Notso - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 18:03

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 18:03
Basically the definition of quality is quite subjective. But fit for purpose requires something to work, and 9 hours certainly doesn't sound like long enough for a genny to work. What is the reasonable expectation of the purchaser. I guess only the Consumer Affairs people could give sound advice on that.
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Follow Up By: Geoffr17 - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 19:36

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 19:36
I brought Ryobi from Bunnings. Now not the top manufacturer of generators . But by an expensive Honda it is has to be returned to supplier / Dealer , wait for repair.

Ryobi from Bunnings , 2 year replacement , new unit straight of the shelf at any store. Hard to beat.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 21:07

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 21:07
I am pretty sure any piece of equipment whether a $1800 Honda genny or a $100,000 Toyota Landcruiser will need to be returned to a dealer for repair in the event of a warranty claim.

My 4 or 5 year old Honda 2.0 starts first pull every time and has since the day I bought it.
I would be 100% confident that if I hauled it out of the shed now, put some fuel in it and gave it a couple of pulls to get the fuel through it would start and perform as it is designed to do.

It hasn't been fired up for about 6 months and I always make sure the tank and carby are empty before putting it away.

People that claim they bought a cheapy because they only use it on occasion amuse me.

Bit hard to crank it fast enough and long enough to get the Engel cold enough for the beer.

(;=))

Cheers
Pop
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FollowupID: 842797

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 21:26

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 21:26
Yeah but Pop if it does the job for them then there is nothing wrong with that.
But if you buy cheap you have to be prepared to take a gamble sometimes you win sometimes not.

I have one if those little $99 Ozito Bunnings chainsaws and two bigger Stihl ones
The Ozito is nowhere near the quality and it feels cheap too but it starts every time just like the Stihl ones and does what I ask of it so am happy with it and has met my requirements but if something doesn't do the job for you regardless of price it is wasted money

If I pay good money for a product I expect it to last but if I buy the cheapie I do so taking my chances on the outcome
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FollowupID: 842799

Follow Up By: Geoffr17 - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 22:01

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 22:01
No , replaced right of the shelf at the store ( Bunnings ) ,Just the same as all their Ozito drills anytime in the 2 year period etc.

As I said , hard to beat

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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 22:57

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 22:57
Alby, you are quite right in what you say. The problem arises when you are some distance from the nearest Bunnings or whatever outlet you bought it from and it decides that is a good time to die.
I understand off course, that knonking out can happen with the expensive good quality bit of gear. Just a lot less likely to happen.

A mate of mine started his own building company many years ago. When my 4" angle grinder died after many years of good service I asked him what he was currently using. He said he bought the cheaper ones from Bunnings or wherever but he literally bought them by the half dozen. He reckoned on the average building site at least one would get run over, one or two would get knocked off and out of what was left he had a better than even chance at least one would see the job through.
He did hold the belief that the cheapies were also less likely to "walk" by themselves.

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Thursday, Jul 02, 2015 at 02:33

Thursday, Jul 02, 2015 at 02:33
I lost the blade removal key off my angle grinder so went to Bunnings to get another one

Ended up cheaper to buy a new Ozito grinder and use the key that came with it LOL

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FollowupID: 842804

Reply By: Rangiephil - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 21:31

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 21:31
Quote (it will run as long as I hold the choke held on, if I let it go there is a positive shut down.) Unquote
Tell me was one of the checks that you did to remove the carby and clean out the jets?

By your description of the problem it sounds to me that it is simply a blocked main jet.

This can happen from fuel being left in the carby on shut down and vaporizing and leaving a residue, or maybe a bit of material from the manufacturing process.

I have had this problem a couple of times with my Yamaha EF1000, even though I empty the carby on shutdown, when I leave it for a few months and use fuel stabilizer.

I also have a cheapo blower from Bunnings that initially would not run without choke but now runs perfectly after I dosed it with fuel stabilizer..
Regards Philip A

AnswerID: 556567

Follow Up By: Life Member - Terry 80FTE - Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 21:45

Wednesday, Jul 01, 2015 at 21:45
"..blocked main jet"
X 2
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Follow Up By: Pete Jackman (SA) - Thursday, Jul 02, 2015 at 11:26

Thursday, Jul 02, 2015 at 11:26
Thanks Phil,

I hadn't thought of that but it is a positive shut off when it cuts out. A vacuum unit pulls the choke open and kills the ignition immediately. If I slowly open the choke while it is stumbling along it gets to a point when it is grabbed shut and the engine cuts out.

It will restart first pull ... then cut out again when the choke opens.

I suspect it might be something in the low oil shut down circuitry, but who knows.

If I get no luck with the company I might pull it right down and look at everything.

Cheers

Peter

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Follow Up By: 08crd - Thursday, Jul 02, 2015 at 18:07

Thursday, Jul 02, 2015 at 18:07
A reasonable small engine repair shop, would probably know the problem instantly.

Try to get the seller to agree to a third party assessment and repair, if they won't ask consumer protection to order them to do so.

That's the course of action I would take, it removes you from the equation, which then limits their ability to accuse you of tampering or scamming.
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Reply By: Motherhen - Thursday, Jul 02, 2015 at 00:09

Thursday, Jul 02, 2015 at 00:09
Sorry to hear of your misfortune Peter - or perhaps to sorry hear of your purchase. Bad reports here about the company too. How often do I read on forums asking about a cheap brand of generator? Some are unknown, but this seller seems to be well known, and not because of good service.

Motherhen

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Reply By: Rangiephil - Thursday, Jul 02, 2015 at 14:42

Thursday, Jul 02, 2015 at 14:42
Hmm, some of these units use a vacuum fuel cutoff , which depends on manifold vacuum to open the fuel tap.

So that when you pull the starter cord the vacuum created in the inlet manifold opens the fuel tap and vice versa, when you shut down the fuel tap closes with no vacuum.

I would be looking at the diaphragm of the vacuum shutoff and that each of the hoses is not split or dislodged. You haven't mixed up the hoses by any chance , thus causing the choke to be a slave rather than the fuel valve?
Regards Philip A
AnswerID: 556575

Reply By: Batt's - Thursday, Jul 02, 2015 at 16:57

Thursday, Jul 02, 2015 at 16:57
Thanks for the warning hope it works out to be an easy fix.
AnswerID: 556580

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