Recovery gone wrong - A timely reminder

Submitted: Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 08:03
ThreadID: 119470 Views:3133 Replies:10 FollowUps:30
This Thread has been Archived
A reminder of what can and does go wrong in vehicle recoveries…and the potential outcome when it does.

The detail is not given so there is no point speculating on the how the recovery was performed, but a timely reminder to all to exercise caution and ensure any recovery is performed with safety first in mind and done in an appropriate manner.

Recovery Accident

Cheers, Baz – The Landy
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Bigfish - Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 08:23

Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 08:23
No details needed at this stage. The one thing that every piece of recovery gear must have is strength. Ensuring that the gear you have is up to the job is vital. Cheap Chinese pulleys, straps, hooks or chains are a no-no. Having top quality gear AND knowing the correct way to use and to do so safely goes a long way to a safe and successful recovery.
With the proliferation of suvs on and off road I think that unfortunately we will see more people injured unnecessarily whilst performing a vehicle recovery.

Hope the chap recovers ok...
AnswerID: 556948

Reply By: TomH - Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 09:33

Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 09:33
Details are vague as usual but bet there is more to it. A strap would probably dissipate its force before getting into a vehicle whereas if a towball broke it would fly right through.

Has happened several times before and killed people, like a 17yr old passenger in a Patrol when the ball went in the rear window through his head and out the windscreen.
AnswerID: 556950

Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 10:22

Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 10:22
The article mentions "a piece of metal attached to the strap", so chances are a tow ball, or shackle?

Feel for his family,

Bob

Seen it all, Done it all.
Can't remember most of it.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 843236

Follow Up By: Honky - Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 18:56

Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 18:56
Early reports said d shackle.

Honky
1
FollowupID: 843281

Reply By: vk1dx - Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 10:46

Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 10:46
Who has noticed the errors with the new DMAX ad on TV showing a recovery. Not too bright are they?

I wish that I had a link. At least four things that I can see are wrong. And one is very reminiscent of how the above accident happened.

We speak about safety etc etc, but as it has been for generations, teenagers always know best. Hey - I know, because I was one.

Phil
AnswerID: 556957

Follow Up By: vk1dx - Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 11:21

Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 11:21
I should have said " And one is very reminiscent of how the above accident could have happened".

Phil
0
FollowupID: 843241

Follow Up By: garrycol - Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 22:33

Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 22:33
Yes - the actions in the ad imply you can do a snatch recovery from the front tow point.
0
FollowupID: 843295

Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, Jul 14, 2015 at 00:12

Tuesday, Jul 14, 2015 at 00:12
Awesome "tie down points" hey??? I wonder where the dampener weight for the snatch strap went. And why is it so filthy. Seems they done't encourage you to clean them. Ahhh these advertising people are maaaarvelous!!!!!

I wonder how fast he would be going when the strap was out to it's full length.

No wonder kids grab them a snatch strap and almost kill themselves with this trash on TV.

Phil
0
FollowupID: 843298

Follow Up By: Member - Bookleaf - Tuesday, Jul 14, 2015 at 13:02

Tuesday, Jul 14, 2015 at 13:02
I have not seen the add so can not comment on it, but the Dmax (and the Mux) have rated tow points at the front, rated to 2.5t (rated by Isuzu)
They look like tie down points, but are rated tow points.
Equaliser strap needed though.
0
FollowupID: 843309

Follow Up By: garrycol - Tuesday, Jul 14, 2015 at 13:49

Tuesday, Jul 14, 2015 at 13:49
Rated at 2.5t so a tow point - not strong enough for a snatch where loads can get much much higher - the ad is using them as a snatch point not a tow point.
0
FollowupID: 843310

Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, Jul 14, 2015 at 14:29

Tuesday, Jul 14, 2015 at 14:29
I agree with garry.

You would have to be brave to snatch with a 2.5T "point". I wouldn't even bother to say that 2.5T was "rated".

Phil
0
FollowupID: 843314

Follow Up By: Member - Blue M - Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 03:30

Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 03:30
Hi, It is sad when you hear about someone dying/suffering serious injuries when this sort of thing happens.
But the question I have to ask myself is this:- How did any of us over the age of 50 get to be to this age.

I am sure that these sort of things happened in the old days as well, we just didn't hear about it as much. (Pen and paper days) Now, if something happens in the middle of the Simpson Desert today, it's on Social media tomorrow, and every one knows the next day.

It may be some of the things out there now that make our lives easy, are starting to kill us. I don't know how long snatch straps have become the norm for recovery, but know I have been towed out of and have towed more vehicles out of bogs with out snatch straps than I have with them.
If snatch straps weren't around, maybe the "X" ton rated points to attach to, would be used as intended, as they are only a Towing Point. I know they are a wonderful invention, but who's fault is it really when they get hooked to a point that was never made for that type of use. May be the manufactures should put stronger chassis on all cars so then they could put a Snatch Strap point.
Where would you find one one of these on a car 35 years ago. We managed to pull one another out of bog holes.

Also I guess 35 years ago something like this would have been an "Unfortunate Accident", now days it is "who can I blame this on who can I sue".
2
FollowupID: 843336

Follow Up By: vk1dx - Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 10:03

Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 10:03
I was trying to highlight what was wrong, so that others who "don't know" would learn and not take their mate's head off.

Anyway, hopefully he and his mates will learn and pass it on.

Phil
0
FollowupID: 843340

Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 11:09

Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 11:09
If this ad gets on YouTube and someone has a link, please post it.

I've searched and believe it's not there yet.

Cheers
FrankP

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

0
FollowupID: 843342

Follow Up By: garrycol - Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 11:37

Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 11:37
Look no further than the Isuzu website - too easy

D Max Snatch Video

The Go Your Own Way video will start that has a small bit in it but while the video is playing look to the bottom of the page and you willl see 4 pics - clip on the DMAX Latest Offerings TVC pic and the snatch video will play.

Unfortunately the WWW link for this always takes you back to Go Your Own Way video but if you click on the DMAX Latest Offerings TVC vid it will play.
1
FollowupID: 843343

Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 11:57

Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 11:57
Thanks Garry.

I found that one, but the glimpse of the hook-up was so brief I didn't think it was the right one. Thought there must have been another.

Cheers
FrankP

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

0
FollowupID: 843345

Follow Up By: garrycol - Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 12:15

Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 12:15
Did you l;ook at the video to the right of the one linked - the hook up is still quick but you see the snatch then it cuts to a completely different scene. The vid certainly depicts a snatch.
0
FollowupID: 843346

Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 12:32

Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 12:32
Yeah, that's the one. I looked at the stills - you can see a bit better.

Thanks mate
FrankP

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

0
FollowupID: 843348

Follow Up By: vk1dx - Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 12:40

Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 12:40
There is a longer version, on TV, that shows the tangled mess that the snatch strap was in when the car started accelerating "in reverse" with the strap running out of a muddy tangle on the ground. No dampener and could even tie up in a tangle/knot. The strap w just dumped on the ground without laying it out neatly for a knot and tangle free snatch.

Phil
0
FollowupID: 843349

Follow Up By: garrycol - Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 13:40

Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 13:40
On the issue of dampers - the gurus teach that the damper goes in the middle but it will not stop a connected shackle or metal component still reaching either the recovery or vehicle being recovered - it is in the middle afterall. Noting if at all possible do not connect a shackle to the end of the strap - use the loop in the strap to connect to the vehicle if possible.

I have two damper and one goes on each end about a 1/4 of the length of the strap from each end so that if the shackle/metal component does come off it only travels a short distance before the damper starts to take effect.

Also considering buying two small sea anchors (drogue) from a marine shop and connecting one to each end of the strap so that there is a breakage there is a "parachute" effect to slow the metal object. I haven't tried it yet though.

Garry
1
FollowupID: 843350

Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 15:11

Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 15:11
"There is a longer version, on TV, "

Thanks Phil. If it gets to SBS I might see it. The rest of the commercial channels I tend not to watch ;-)
FrankP

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

0
FollowupID: 843351

Follow Up By: garrycol - Friday, Jul 17, 2015 at 14:21

Friday, Jul 17, 2015 at 14:21
I contacted Isuzu and their response was:

"Hi Garry, the front recovery points are rated to GVM for snatch recoveries. Hope this helps."

So heavily bogged fully loaded vehicle in a snatch situation will have snatch loads far in excess of GVM - probably double but who knows.

Now for Isuzu to have tow points actually rated is good so at least you know where they stand but to depict a snatch in an ad on TV is not acceptable.

What if someone who is fully loaded and heavily bogged does a snatch and the tow point breaks Isuzu is leaving themselves wide open when evidence is presented in court where the ad is shown with the implication that it is OK to do snatch recoveries with the GVM rated points only.

Most of us know better but many dont.

Here is a link to the Isuzu facebook site - if inclined put comments there as I did.

Isuzu Facebook Site
1
FollowupID: 843415

Reply By: Allan M7 - Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 11:48

Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 11:48
I have had to tow a few people out of trouble in the past and they always attempt to anchor off the Tow Ball, I explain why this isn't a good idea.

The last one wanted a tow to clutch start a Hilux diesel and he had a snatch strap and put it over my tow ball on a Nissan Patrol. I told him it has to go on the tow hook or no go. They do not realise the dangers involved.

I was a Driver on the Rail NSW and was on a 6300 tonne coal train with 3 x 3000hp locos close to the track was a Isuzu rail truck sitting on the chassis bogged they had a d4 dozer their but couldn't move it. Had been like it all day.

So stop train and ask if they had a chain, Yes we have one what loading is it probably 100T. So we affix it to loco and truck. I tell the truck driver to keep his head below dash as if it breaks it will take the cab roof off and he doesn't want to lose his head. So we are on a downhill and just let gravity do its job and it had him out in no time without any issues. He was so thankful as it would have been a major issue to get it out normally.
AnswerID: 556961

Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 15:44

Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 15:44
Allan, At $100 a time, you could make a fortune with that loco on Rainbow Beach! LOL
Cheers
Allan

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

2
FollowupID: 843268

Follow Up By: Ken - Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 16:27

Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 16:27
Allan, little risk of the chain flying back in the event it broke. A chain has little if any stored inertia and what there is would be absorbed but the weight of the chain, a chain with a 100 ton loading would be pretty heavy. A snatch or winch extension strap is a whole different story as the energy stored is tremendous and it either plucks the bogged vehicle out or breaks something to which it is attached which then becomes a missile.
You have the ultimate tow truck there if you happen to be bogged near a train track.

Ken
0
FollowupID: 843271

Follow Up By: Allan M7 - Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 19:30

Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 19:30
Ken I was covering my backside as really what I was doing was illegal by rail standards. They probably would hang you if they knew.

Luckily it worked out ok, I would love an 81 class loco as a tow vehicle but it would take up the whole road lol!!

They said 4 of them with a tow rope would pull the world around, Funny thing is the new TT class by the book have double the tractive effort.
0
FollowupID: 843283

Follow Up By: Ken - Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 20:40

Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 20:40
Yeah understand Allan, there's the rules and there's the things you !

Workmates from a previous life told me of bogging Landcruisers on Q'ld rail corridor while doing an optic fibre installation and getting towed out by a loco. Needed a long tow though or they could end up under the train.

Ken
0
FollowupID: 843288

Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 21:21

Monday, Jul 13, 2015 at 21:21
"................would hang you if they knew."

Ha ha, they wouldn't do that Allan. They'd make you fill out Incident Reports, until your hands cramped up, or the biro ran out of ink.

Bob

Seen it all, Done it all.
Can't remember most of it.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 843294

Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, Jul 14, 2015 at 09:57

Tuesday, Jul 14, 2015 at 09:57
When I was a little boy we lived at Mt Beauty and my older brother by 16 years worked on the Kiewa Scheme. He used to take me up the mountain occasionally. We got stuck in deep mud up near Falls Creek and on the side of the Bogong High Plains road, in an old Army Jeep. A real Jeep.

A passing "big" bulldozer (remember that I am only 4-5 and it could have been a tiny D4 but to me it was "big" and made lots of great noise), well the driver hooked a "big" steel rope to the front of the Jeep and pulled us out. At one stage mud was streaming over the bonnet and into our laps.

What a buz. Pity the "older" brother didn't put the windscreen up. Mum went mad but we had some fun, even if frozen.

Phil
2
FollowupID: 843300

Reply By: vk1dx - Tuesday, Jul 14, 2015 at 10:00

Tuesday, Jul 14, 2015 at 10:00
On a different TV recovery:Brisbane on WIN this morning - Breaking News (??????)

How many noticed that the tow truck driver pulling the ute out of the Brisbane River used the pretty chrome piping at the back as a recovery point for his big chains. You have to be joking.

Yep!!! A professional with a severe lack of brains.

Phil
AnswerID: 556996

Follow Up By: TomH - Tuesday, Jul 14, 2015 at 10:52

Tuesday, Jul 14, 2015 at 10:52
Was on Magic news that the Bullbar had broken off when getting pulled out.

As they often dont know their a++e from their elbow it could well have been the rear bumper
1
FollowupID: 843304

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Thursday, Jul 16, 2015 at 17:16

Thursday, Jul 16, 2015 at 17:16
Thats what happens when you let a 'professional ' loose in a freezing cold river ,, car was not even 2 weeks old ….
1
FollowupID: 843390

Reply By: allein m - Tuesday, Jul 14, 2015 at 10:50

Tuesday, Jul 14, 2015 at 10:50
Hi landy how are you ?

I did catch that on the news and I hope many others did and realize how easy things can turn sour when trying to perform a recovery

I am sure if you rang around local hospitals casualty this is a common type of accident and one that can be prevented by doing the job correctly

safety first in all 4wd endeavors
AnswerID: 556997

Reply By: Old 55 - Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 11:44

Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 11:44
I often get accused of being too cautious on club trip recoveries but to me a snatch strap is the last course of action when bogged. The potential for an accident is all too obvious with a loaded slingshot hanging of your recovery points.
A tow or winch is preferred to a slingshot recovery. In fifty years of winching I have never seen a D Shackle come through the back or any window for that matter. In the last 3 years I have seen 3 incidents with Snatch straps breaking parts off a vehicle and one lodged in the front headrest of a mates vehicle, straight through the back window of his Nissan, and missed his head by millimetres.
Slower though it maybe I will winch every time.

RodB
AnswerID: 557040

Follow Up By: garrycol - Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 12:23

Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 12:23
Thats fine if you have a winch - but just because you use a snatch strap people do not have to do a snatch recovery but they can be used as a normal tow recovery.

I carry an old frayed snatch strap that I use as a tow rope, doesn't matter if it touches the road or gets run over. If it doesn't work then I get out my rarely used and in top condition snatch strap and slowly drive into the strap to load it up. If towing with the old strap there is no loading the strap up just pulling.

I have used the old strap to tow a vehicle out many many times but only ever used the new snatch strap in a snatch recovery twice. Once when trying to recover a much larger vehicle and another where my vehicle was not able to get enough traction to tow.

Dig and tow will normally work.
0
FollowupID: 843347

Reply By: Jackolux - Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 13:09

Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 13:09
When I have ever needed to use a Snatch Strap to extract a vehicle the first attempt is always a gentle tow , if that doesn't work we reassess the situation .

I have seen what can happen with just a broken Snatch Strap , a fertiliser truck was bogged out came the snatch strap a much heavier strap than what we would use for 4Wding , connect to another Spreader Truck , the broken strap dented the front of the truck smashed the grill and destroyed the intercooler and that was just the strap nothing attached to it .

Would it of had enough energy to come through the windscreen , probably not ,

If it had hit a person the injury would of been quite severe or worse .
AnswerID: 557044

Reply By: 671 - Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 20:19

Wednesday, Jul 15, 2015 at 20:19
There is an interesting story here from Greg Milton from ARB.http://www.perth4x4.net/forum/index.php?/topic/22238-snatch-straps/

If anybody actually has a rated recovery point on their car, can they please tell me what it is rated for and who rated it? Greg is right, there are no rated recovery points on cars unless the car manufacturer says so or an owner has taken the car to an engineering company that has carried out whatever modifications are necessary to the chassis and connecting point and signed off on it in writing.

Of course it takes two to tango with snatch straps so even if your car has been correctly modified, how do you know what condition the attachment point on the other car is in? Has it ever had a snatch strap on it or has it already had a hell of a hiding from straps? Is it suffering from advanced metal fatigue or rust in the chassis captive nuts or has it got a few more snatches left in it before disaster strikes?

That is the problem you face every time you use one. It is always the connecting point on the other car than comes flying through the air and kills you, not the one on your own car.

After you get all of this sorted out we then have the safety precautions. We are told to do things like snatch gently, use dampers, remove any obstacle from in front of the wheels and then last but not least we must get everyone not directly involved well back out of the way.

That sounds great then we start the snatch with a person sitting at each end of the strap and directly in line with it and wonder why so many have been killed or injured.

Anyone who thinks these things can be used safely is living in fairyland. In order for them to be safe we need three basic things to happen first. 1. The car manufacturers must design cars for snatch strap use and include directions for their use in the owner's handbook in the same way they list towing instructions. 2. The strap must be the weakest link in the chain. 3. Windscreen and rear window glass must be tough enough to stop a recoiling strap.

When we get that we can then worry about designing training courses for their use.

AnswerID: 557062

Reply By: vk1dx - Thursday, Jul 16, 2015 at 18:47

Thursday, Jul 16, 2015 at 18:47
Looks like a good result in the Snowy, just outside Jindabyne.

I didn't see anything wrong. Maybe the towbar was used but it was just a Mazda family car and just a straight tow.

Phil
AnswerID: 557078

Follow Up By: garrycol - Thursday, Jul 16, 2015 at 19:03

Thursday, Jul 16, 2015 at 19:03
What happened up in the Snowy??
0
FollowupID: 843391

Follow Up By: vk1dx - Thursday, Jul 16, 2015 at 19:12

Thursday, Jul 16, 2015 at 19:12
A tourist from Asia somewhere got stuck when he tried to get back to tow after being on a dirt track taking photos. Nothing extreme about the track but it did need 4WD. He was in a Mazda 2WD. He posted a help me" message on Facebook and a bloke from Jindabyne went out and towed him back to town. He did ask to confirm the authenticity before going out to pick up the bloke. It was on the national and local Canberra WIN news.

I can't find a link. Nothing sensational so most wouldn't bother mentioning it. Maybe . . . .

Phil
1
FollowupID: 843392

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (13)