climbing the rock

Agreed Slammin.........I climbed Uluru in 1979 om New Years Day after a BIG party the night before. Stupidly my mate and i did not carry any water with us. Luckily for us there were some rock pools to get a drink from. On our way down we came across some youngsters in their teens sitting with the feet in the clear rockpools stirring the water up. My voice must have carried to the Petermann Ranges as I yelled "What the F....do you think you are doing you B.....y cretins. This is water for living not to put your feet in...." and a few more expletives. But I should taken water with me. Luckily I was a seasoned tropical dweller in those days and was accustomed to extreme temperatures.

I now see that there is no need to climb things. We end up being like ants wanting to forage everywhere. Uluru from a distance is just as impressive as from close up. Have also walked around the base(when I was younger) which holds magical pre-history dreaming feelings for me. Have flown around it in a chopper but that wasn't fun and I hope they have desisted in that practise as it is a noise infringement on the environment.

Regards

Willem whats they diference in climbing it in 1979 on new years day to climbing it in 2004.

All the best
Eric

Slammin in 1991 it was ok for you then but not in 2004 I cant work it out.

All the best
Eric

G'day Eric,
I think Slammin spelt it out really well - it's a simple matter of showing some respect for the traditional owners wishes.

Diesel 1

So diesel 15 years ago is different to now. The above two have climbed it all those years ago so no one should climb it now is that what there saying. Because attitudes have changed. If they close it to the public they can always say been there done that.

All the best
Eric

Hello Eric,

Life is a learning curve as you well know. Education is another. When I was younger I was less inclined to other peoples feelings and followed the trend of the day, I was more agressive about things. These days I am more subdued mainly as I am of an older age and can't see the point of arguing the issues over perceptions. We can go on all night about this and maybe start another war but there is no point to it.

What is different in 2004?
1. I have more empathy with an older and different culture
2. I can't climb it because of health problems
3. I have been there before and there is no need
4. I don't think that I am egotistical about these things any longer.

If they close the rock to climbers then so be it!

Cheers,

Of mice etc. & Eric what you makes you think I or from what I can read anyone else said don't climb it?

It's up to you. To each his own I think is how Shakespeare put it.

My point is quite simple really when I 1st visited there was no clear explanation on the trad. own.'s feelings on the matter but there is now.

PS it's now called Uluru if you wish to persist in calling it Ayers Rock, again that's your choice.

I gather the entrance fee has now soared by about 50 percent to $25 an adult!!! Now is that a rip-off or not?! When were you last charged twenty-five bucks to visit a cathedral, temple or church??

Come on, let's face it. Someone is making a tidy sum out of what is, after all, a NATURAL PHENOMENON. As such it should be available to all for a modest fee just to cover road maintenance and the like. After all, we still have to dig deep into our pockets for the privilege of merely staying overnight in Uluru.

Dennis
www.damor.net

Well Wizzy....I suppose it is OK for you to make a tidy profit in your line of work but not for anyone else.

There is an American saying "You take your chances and you pay your dime" It is up to you..........

Ianmc,

Please keep your rascism and bigotry off this forum. This country is complex enough with all the different cultures living in it.

I am not sure what your your aim is by posting what you just have but it is unhelpful and not necessary. If you don't like the charges then don't go.

It is just a bloody rock after all.

HI IANMC, That would be fair wouldnt it, I dont think that your post is Racist, it's strange how if you have an opinion you get called names by the people that say you should respect the views of the Indigenious people. got me F*&%^#.

Tom, interesting reply. Can you (or anyone else) shed any light on the current situation that photographers who intend to get paid for their images or who intend to publish them (for payment or not), or artists, must apply in writing for a permit (at an expense) and must not photograph the rock from certain angles ie: the sunset viewing spot with thousands of other tourists, and must have the committee (or whatever body it is) verify each photograph is within the requirements?

Thanks

GLD,

For professional phoptographers wishing to take pics of Uluru that has been the way for about 20 years now...nothing new.

Willem,

I have information to the effect that over the last couple of years that there have actually been a lot changes regarding this, and I was wondering if someone who has up-to-date knowledge of this (perhaps like Tom who lives and works there) could respond.

Thanks

Tom, you're right in that "there is no reason to climb it ie. no water or food up there and the danger of the climb is significant" and that goes for any peak etc. from Anangu perspective. And yes Anangu do feel responsible for deaths at Uluru. But you are being disingeniuos to suggest that that is the only reason.

You seem to have no empathy or understanding of Anangu people or their culture at all. I wonder how well you think you really know "the guys" and also what their position is within the community.

Surely you must realise that you are a visitor into Mutitjulu from the dominant culture which provides the greatest source of income into this area and as such what is said to you by the "guys" is done so to placate you as you are a representative of the tourist group, and as such your group wants to keep the climb open for as long as possible because when it's not numbers drop.

This placating is done because it is very rude to tell someone "no" or that you are wrong in the Anangu culture. The correct way to breach difficulties in understanding between 2 groups is to ; state what you want "we don't want you climbing Uluru" ; if that doesn't work lead by example "we don't climb Uluru" ; or provide another alternate reason for your wishes " It's dangerous" : lastly Anangu wait.

Also it is against Anangu law to discuss or explain sacred sites or ceremonies with uninitiated people without authorisation. Any versions or explanations of sacred sites are dumbed down for the dominant culture. So do you really expect "the guys" to sit down and openly discuss exactly why they don't want you up there? Surely you are aware, that in the public version of Uluru sacred sites, parts of the rock are transformed ancestors. Do you think Anangu want you walking on their ancestors? Or on their fertility sites etc etc

Climbing over or on sacred sites is definitely the main reason that they wish you do not climb on Uluru or any other sacred sites. You are desecrating the sites around the rock by doing so. I have family who's dreaming and sacred sites are at Uluru and also whose dreamings stretch for thousands of miles around this area and they definitely do not want you climbing Uluru because it is a sacred site.

PS I forgot to add Anangu do climb Uluru but it's only the relevent elders and only for ceremony.

Slammin

What a load of dribble. It seems you have not read any of the controversy on the management of the two parks by Parks Australia.

If they did not want people to climb, then it would be closed. The WHOLE problem is the mismanagement of Uluru (and Kakadu) by Parks Australia.

Sean

You're a bit of a worry, Phillis.

Yep you should be ashamed all right. And no you're not family.

Three words, road tax, tollway, oh and collection box, Westgate bridge, Sydney Harbour bridge and tunnel, " small maintainence fee " WHAT THE, If you want to climb it go ahead, if you don't then don't. usualy people respect other peoples wishes no matter what the the reasons are. IMHO !!

Baz.

Happy Easter Ralph or sorry is that another FAIRY STORY to you as well?

As for your post ,what nonsense, there is o correlation to sacred sites and tourist attractions, ther are thousands of sites in this area that are as culturally signifcant and guess what you wouldn't even know it if you literally tripped over it.

Geeze Ralph you even pick on Parks Australia the biggest piggy in the middle in Australia - but you don't seem to have any better suggestions.

As for entrance fees to holy places I can think of 2 for a start.

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m0FQP/4636_132/101889212/p1/article.jhtml

As well as a heap of other cathedrals across europe as well as temples thru Thailand and thats just in my limited travels.

As I have said b4 if you want to climb the ruddy thing go for it, you do have permision but don't post rubbish and in my opinion make up flagrant lies about Uluru not being a sacred site to Anangu. It may not be a sacred site to you but that's your right, but to denigrate a peoples belief system because you disagree or choose not to understand that is disgraceful.

To each his own is that too much to ask?

Sorry Ralph my comment about Parks Aus was meant to be for Sean.

Hi, most of this is in reply to Slammin I didn't know any other way to contact him,(sorry Baz) When I talk about Fairy Tales Iam refering to the Dream time stories about Rainbow Serpents etc, you honestly don't expect anyone to believe that a gaint snake drank lake Eyre dry then went and made the Flinder's Ranges do ya, If you do your living in the stone age,they are entertaining stories but miles from the true facts about the way this land was formed. People are entitled to believe what ever they like so long as it don't efect other people, but 2% of the population call natural phenomenons a sacred site and charge people to have a look or lock it up, and the rest of the poulation is expected to respect these views,(get real)then when questioned about them they come up with Fairy Tales or secret Womens bussiness( which was proved to be Fragrant Lies),If any one states the facts(not Fairy Tales)or has an opinion regarding these matters they are called Racist or Bigoted. when really it could be said that they(the people that believe in the Fairy Tales)are the Bigots,(definition of a Bigot) a person blindly and obstinately devoted to a particular set of ideas. and Racist, if your not Aboriginal you can't go here or see this etc, which is discriminatory treatment based on race.And All this goes no where towards helping race relations,The sooner we treat every one in this country as one people (as Australians)no Abstudy and Austudy etc the better IMO.

When I talk about Fairy Tales Iam refering to the Dream time stories about Rainbow Serpents etc, you honestly don't expect anyone to believe that a gaint snake drank lake Eyre dry then went and made the Flinder's Ranges do ya.......

Ralph2...Then you have to discount the Creation of the Universe, the Garden of Eden and most of the book of Genesis as rubbish, as well.

You have a mind set about these things and it gets you nowhere.

Hi Ralph again, I know what you meant by fairy tales and the problem is you feel that you have a god given right that a people have to explain and justify their religion to you. I state in the post above the little bit that you do know about Aboriganel culture is dumbed down for public consumption but then I guess that Moses did part the red sea etc.
I have been lucky enough to have the correct meaning of some of these allegories explained to me which does put me in an unfair position over you in that I have tried to understand and come to terms with different cultures in this world. Fairy tales huh, so what do you beleive in?

As usual in this argument you fail to accept or realise that this is Aboriganel land that they own and choose to do with it what they see fit, and they haven't locked you or anyone else out, they are merely asking that you respect their wishes. The real issue for you here is not their beleif system but that you don't understand or qualify for Abstudy what a joke.

As for locking people out of their area based on race what rubbish, it's a simple process you apply for a permit and according to your intentions are accepted or rejected which is a hell of a lot more polite than many other private properties in this country, especially after all the legal wrangling over insurance. And you have the hide to call them racist for locking you out. RAOFLOL

I think you'll also find that the aboriganal population in this country make up 4million people I don't think that 2% is anywhere near accurate.

As for the Hindmarsh Affair, you are willing to judge a whole nation of peoples beleifs because of one small group trying to protect their land from development. Heaven forbid if we were all judged by some of the people in this world!

I fail to see why Jewish or Catholic peope are bigots because they choose to have Faith. Whats with you?

And as soon as Aboriganels have the same employment options and choice of giving birth to infants with a lower mortality rate and can live for longer than 50 years of age, yes, we can cancel the small benefits that are just another name for what everyone else gets Newstart & Austudy then yep the sooner that happens lets cancel Abstudy.

And no we're not all One Australian we are many different Australians who try to live happily together without unfair judgment over each other even if we don't understand each other.

At this stage I think that I have failed to explain myself well enough to you so we will just have to say that we agree to disagree.

If you want to climb the rock that is your choice.

Oh by the way you didn't mention that you were wrong about churches etc. charging for admission. I guess that shows how big a bloke you really are.

HI Willem , unless your talking about the big bang theory (universe) then yes I do think its bull.

HI Slammin, I don't believe in the Virgin Mary giving birth, parting the Red sea or Budda,religion has and still is causing most of the friction in this world.I don't think of Australia being Aboriginal Land, they lost it over 200yrs ago it's time to move on. I don't nor do I wish to quaifily for Abstudy,(not Aboriginal) what's the joke?. I don't see why Aboriginal people can't live where they choose, they get help from Gov dept like other people do(unemployment, disability, public housing, free school buses etc) in fact per head of population they get more money spent on them. (ASTIC report nov 03). And if they get educated and get the qualifications like every body else has to, there are work opitunities, in fact posistions are reserved for them in a lot of Gov Depts.The Hindmarsh Island secret womens bussiness for all we know could be the tip of the ice burge, how many other devlopments have been stopped or held up .You stated that Aboriginal people won't tell the truth about sacred sites to uninitiated people,(non Aboriginal) and Hindmarsh Island was privately owned.Noel Pearson stated for 2% of the population Aboriginal people made up 20% of the jail poulation in this country.I don't know of any Churches in this country that charge to go in. The problem with a lot of Aboriginal people that I have talked to (not many) seem to be living in the past, but want the moden life style, move on get over it. Any way like you said, we can agree to disagree. nice to have communicated with you.