Victorian Police hand held radar calibration query

Submitted: Friday, Aug 14, 2015 at 21:11
ThreadID: 129994 Views:2234 Replies:14 FollowUps:21
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G'day All

Does anyone on this great site know how often a hand held Police radar (by law)
needs to be tested / calibrated to be deemed fit for use ?

Weekly ? Monthly ? Yearly ?

Or maybe somebody could direct me to the appropriate Victorian website so I can check for myself.


Cheers

Gazz

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Reply By: Member - tommo05 - Friday, Aug 14, 2015 at 22:52

Friday, Aug 14, 2015 at 22:52
OK I'll bite. Why? What the hell you up to Gazz?

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Follow Up By: Jackolux - Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 05:43

Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 05:43
Same ^^ I wanna know too .
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Reply By: muzbry - Friday, Aug 14, 2015 at 23:09

Friday, Aug 14, 2015 at 23:09
Gday Gazz
Your solicitor should be able to tell you that when you argue your case in court.
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Reply By: Tim F3 - Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 04:08

Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 04:08
Gazz,have a look at ...drive.com.au " the truth about speed cameras " as a place to start.
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Reply By: Gramps - Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 08:48

Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 08:48
Gazz,

Suck it up, pay the fine, move on. :)

Regards
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 09:36

Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 09:36
Good one Gramps. It amazes me how people get caught speeding and try to find a back door way out. Face it, pay the fine and exit with honour through the front door.

Sorry Gazz. But I agree with Gramps.

Phil
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Follow Up By: Gramps - Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 09:52

Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 09:52
Phil,

Gazz may very well be right given we don't know the details. Even if he is right, I don't like his chances of being successful or the challenge being financially viable.

Regards
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 10:15

Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 10:15
Being Victoria, we might be talking 1 or 2 kph over the limit and Gaz may have thought he wasn't speeding although he hasn't said he was booked yet. Calibration does become a factor with such fine margins. At the other end of the scale, how often do we calibrate our speedos, especially if we have oversize tyres? A digital readout via gps is a good option.
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 10:26

Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 10:26
Come on now. Just stay under the limit a smidgin.

Maybe our speedo is out. When was it calibrated last? Nver. And the GPS may not be that accurate either.

The speed limit is just that a limit. It is not dictated that we drive at the limit even though lots do, and including myself. I got booked back in 1998 doing 2 KPH over the limit in Vic and paid up.

I still prefer thr front door myself.

I better get off the PC. We have a very sad task to do this morning so I better get back with the family.

Have a good day. It's warmer in the tropics.

Phil
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Follow Up By: Member - Outback Gazz - Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 10:28

Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 10:28
Howdy Guys

It's a shame you blokes don't know me because if you did you would know that for my entire life I have always copped it sweet if I have done wrong in any way shape or form and suffered the consequences with grace whether on the sporting field, in business or life in general !! Even on this great site I have apologised to people who I have unintentionally offended by some of my comments and all bar one have accepted my apology.

Yes - I was speeding - but the issue I have is there is a 9 kph discrepancy between the radar unit speed and the speed shown on my speedo and GPS unit. I had my speedo tested when I fitted larger wheels and know it is 2 kph out at 110. I was leading a convoy of 7 vehicles and as you all have done when in convoy have at some stage discussed each others speedo and gps readings.

The 3 vehicles directly behind me ( we were a fare way in front of the others ) all had the exact same gps readings as mine and they can't believe I was done for the speed I was.

I am more than happy to pay the fine for the speed I was doing but I don't really like paying for something I didn't do ! Ask yourself this - if you went down to the bottle shop to buy 3 boxes of beer and you got charged for 4 boxes - would you be happy ??


Cheers

Gazz










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Follow Up By: Gramps - Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 10:53

Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 10:53
I can understand your frustration Gazz but after kicking the cat, turning the air blue and threatening all sorts of dire consequences for the constabulary, judiciary, bureaucrats, politicians and anyone in close proximity I usually just pay the fine and mutter to myself "Next time ........." :)

Regards
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Follow Up By: Dave(NSW) - Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 11:33

Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 11:33
Isn't the fine the same if you do 2ks over or 9 ks over, most I've had say under ten ks or over 10 ks.
Cheers Dave
GU RULES!!

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Follow Up By: noggins - Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 11:55

Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 11:55
If you post a letter via registered mail asking for the calibration dates, serial number, officer's number that actually held the device and then keep up the questions mainly about calibration and how many trees etc were caught speeding that day with that particular appliance you'll usually find that your labelled as a Vexatious Client and they drop the charge.
For them to give the correct answers will take more time than they consider it worth.
Don't forget to give them a readout from your GPS stating the exact speed and time of the alleged offense that matches exactly their stated time .

Long drawn out process but if it P's you off enough you may eventually win in this case
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 13:40

Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 13:40
Depending on the GPS it might keep a log of NMEA data. You can extract the speed at the time from that. Some don't keep a log, some do and of those that do, some retain the log and some overwrite at some point - each new session or when the log space gets full.

Google "NMEA decode". A promising one is this.

Good luck
FrankP

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Follow Up By: 90 Cruiser - Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 22:37

Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 22:37
Wishful thinking Noggins.
By all means contest it Gazz but you'll need to bring the three other drivers as witnesses to give evidence at driving at a consistent speed at an even distance behind you. Otherwise no chance.
Think they are calibrated 6 monthly but a test is performed prior to their use on each occasion to see if they are correct.
Pretty unlucky, you're the only driver I know of that's been given a ticket under 10 kms over by a person, not a camera.
Good luck
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Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Aug 16, 2015 at 09:30

Sunday, Aug 16, 2015 at 09:30
I had the exact same thing Gazz, got done at 118 and my GPS said 105, the bike speedo said 110. The walloper made a point in telling me that his unit was calibrated, and my GPS wasn't. I declined to point out to him that the GPS calculates speed it doesn't measure speed. Doubt that would have flown. He snagged me going around a bend in the road and although I argued the point it only got me a "Oh you've probably been a bit stiff then" comment before he roared off.

There is an address I have that you can protest the fine and theyll give you a fair hearing. Have tried and both won and lost.

Al the best

Bonz
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Sunday, Aug 16, 2015 at 11:59

Sunday, Aug 16, 2015 at 11:59
GPSs calculate the speed using the time and location of two points. They don't use the actual distance covered rather a straight line distance between the points. On curves this can easily create large errors in speed.

I am not 100% on this but here goes:
In Oziexplorer it is called the "Store Check Point Interval" (Configuration - Moving Map screen, and the default setting is 50 meters. This is a large distance for curved roads and tracks, especially mountainous areas and less so for super highways.

I wouldn't attempt to argue the point unless the difference between the "gun" and my GPS was huge or we were on a dead straight section of road.

Phil
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Reply By: toffytrailertrash - Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 12:52

Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 12:52
Gazz, if you haven't had a ticket for two years and you were under 10 k's over you can write in and ask for leniency and an official warning. If you want to try to fight the accuracy of the radar all I can say after many years as a former wearer of the blue & specialising in that field is, good luck.

Cheers
Merv
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Reply By: Iza B - Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 13:05

Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 13:05
Would be worth while finding out. Couple of years ago (so this info is dated), Mr Plod had to supply paperwork that listed the date of last calibration of the device used, before you go to court. Friend of wife's hairdresser's husband knows someone who took the paperwork to court and showed that the information was not filled in, hence the accusation of "exceed posted speed limit" could not proceed because a valid detection had not been obtained.

RACQ legal department gave me a whole lot of information on fighting dodgy detections. If you are in the RACV, they may be able to help. Long story but I got done by a group of 10 recruits on a practical exercise supervised by a senior officer. Multiple groups of 10 cars in a row were being pulled over for practice ticket writing by the students. "Feel free to take it to court" was the stern reply to my protest.

Back to the subject - Legal adviser, in the end, suggested it was less stressful to just pay the fine. "Have you ever been over the limit and not been caught?" did get me thinking. I'm pretty sure that ticket cost is now worth about 0.0003 cents per self-detected speeding offence. I do try to stick to the posted limit but often catch myself in a gray area because I am watching the road and other traffic rather than just being glued to the speedo.

Iza
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 14:26

Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 14:26
A lot of heresay but it shows one side of the discussuion very nicely.

So it is quite possible that the charged party was actually guilty of speeding yet the same person got off because of some other idiots lazy paperwork.

Or . . . .

Phil
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Reply By: Member - Outback Gazz - Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 15:01

Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 15:01
G'day All

Having clocked up millions of kilometres in and around this big brown land I can say, generally speaking I have a very good driving record. I certainly did a lot of dumb and stupid things when I was younger ( mainly on motorbikes ) and deserved all the punishment that was dished out to me ! One time in court the bloke with the funny hairdo asked me what have I got to say for myself re: my offence - I said I was an absolute idiot for doing what I did where I did and deserved to be punished accordingly - I got fined nearly 50% less than what all the others did for pretty much the same infringement because I didn't fabricate a bulldust excuse like they all did !

The easiest, quickest and cheapest thing for me to do is just pay the fine - which I will do ! But it makes me wonder how many other people on the same day or week for that matter got done for something similar - maybe some actually got done for speeding and they weren't. Whose to say the officer didn't drop the unit on the ground when taking it out of its case and that altered the units accuracy ?

The amount of the fine is not an issue as I nearly drink that much in beer each week lol.

Doesn't matter - it's just another small stitch in the giant tapestry of life !!


Thankyou all for your replies and suggestions


Happy and safe travelling


All the best

Gazz
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Sunday, Aug 16, 2015 at 02:27

Sunday, Aug 16, 2015 at 02:27
I actually had a fine refunded once without me asking anything.
It appears the detection device was checked and found to not comply.
I don't know who discovered the non compliance or what was non complying, meaning the device or the certifying paperwork.

My point is, it does happen.

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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Sunday, Aug 16, 2015 at 02:30

Sunday, Aug 16, 2015 at 02:30
Sorry, forgot to add, it was a hand held unit, radar/laser, not a fixed camera.
I think it was a radar device as it was about 10 plus years ago.

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Follow Up By: cookie1 - Sunday, Aug 16, 2015 at 08:21

Sunday, Aug 16, 2015 at 08:21
Mate it doesn't hurt to check these things at all

I got pinged through a Red Light / Speed Camera, long story short I checked and the camera was actually in fault as I had crossed the intersection in less than 1 second ( time of first photo 1:01:01, time of second photo 1:01:01) they cancelled the fine.

I got help from the RAA Legal with this but did have to steer them in the right direction - look at the time guys - look at the time :)

Anything can and will develop faults, if we all just accept things and pay up they will never be checked or held to account

Good Luck

cheers
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Follow Up By: Swaggie - Sunday, Aug 16, 2015 at 11:23

Sunday, Aug 16, 2015 at 11:23
@cookie

Theyll try it on mate , friend copped a speeding infringement, asked for the photo from the mobile camera, turns out there were 2 vehicles in the picture.This type of dirty tactics pees me off. I guess they thought both would just pay up This was years ago but doubt they would have changed .


I'm pretty sure every three years you can asked for the fine to be waived.. I've had 12 points for 20odd years. I've never needed to write a letter either.. I prefer the cash in my pocket lol...
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Follow Up By: cookie1 - Sunday, Aug 16, 2015 at 14:32

Sunday, Aug 16, 2015 at 14:32
Yes I was fortunate that I was caught by a camera, but Gazz was caught by a speed camera so that makes it a little more difficult, as you have to rely solely on the calibration of the unit and the trained officers use of the unit, and dare I say it, the honesty of the Officer

cheers
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Reply By: fisho64 - Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 19:19

Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 19:19
go for it Gazz and challenge it.
Speed cameras, while they could be used for their stated purpose of "improved road safety" generally are not.
How many times have we seen them placed in an area where there is no history of accidents (blackspots) and little or no risk from being 5-10ks over.
A classic situation in WA a few years ago was placing them on freeway on ramps.
For what?
Simple plain REVENUE raising is their actual usage, anyone who thinks otherwise is off with the fairies.
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Reply By: Swaggie - Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 21:01

Saturday, Aug 15, 2015 at 21:01
Look at all the poor buggers that "Copped It Sweet" and lost licences on the Western Ring Road because all the cameras are out of calibration ..

I wipe of 5 because I dont trust there cameras one bit. It will never be in you're favor, the government are cash poor, they don't care how they get it...




Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Monday, Aug 17, 2015 at 19:39

Monday, Aug 17, 2015 at 19:39
Was one of the people who IMHO was fined by the notorious Spit Hill camera at Mosman incorrectly, and had to lump it. This was the same camera that recorded and fined full bendy buses at 85kmh uphill. The same buses were proven later empty and on the flat not able to exceed 65kmh.

The RTA later on the evidence admitted it was in error and cancelled the fines against the buses ONLY. The official line was 'we screwed up on the buses, but the fines for the rest of the vehicles were correct'.

Sorry, but I agree with Gazz..... these things do screw up.
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Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Monday, Aug 17, 2015 at 19:47

Monday, Aug 17, 2015 at 19:47
They were happy to admit the Camera was rooted for the buses as they couldn't dispute the evidence, however the rest of the commuters who couldn't prove their vehicle was unable to exceed the speed limit were treated with contempt. The RTA wouldn't even contemplate that maybe the other results were possibly wrong. And they wonder why the general public have it in for them.

Mind you, the camera was removed shortly after this....
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Reply By: toffytrailertrash - Sunday, Aug 16, 2015 at 07:54

Sunday, Aug 16, 2015 at 07:54
People this is NOT a camera it is a hand held unit. Gazz I have said what you can do to get an Official Warning if you qualify, I would suggest that you take the advice and go along that route. To others, the new hand held units can target a single vehicle at nearly two kilometres with incredible accuracy.

Good luck
Merv
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Reply By: Tony H15 - Sunday, Aug 16, 2015 at 09:48

Sunday, Aug 16, 2015 at 09:48
I'd be interested to know why the three vehicles behind weren't also pinged?
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Reply By: Member - Peter G20 - Sunday, Aug 16, 2015 at 10:37

Sunday, Aug 16, 2015 at 10:37
Hi Gaz
I'm a WA motorcycle traffic cop and the lasers are incredibly accurate. In WA we test them at the start and end of shift. They are checked by the techies every 12 months too. You can only ping 1 car at a time as they have a red dot sight similar to a rifle telescopic sight and you aim it at the vehicles number plate.
In court the prosecutors are always very positive about contesting laser cases as they are so accurate.

Cheers
Pete
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Reply By: Slow one - Sunday, Aug 16, 2015 at 17:08

Sunday, Aug 16, 2015 at 17:08
Gaz and others,
be very careful using GPS readings as a reference to speed. I think many will know GPS's can jump around a bit. You can see say a 99Kph reading on your GPS and then look again and see say 85kph. They can vary quiet a bit depending where you are.

My personal GPS which is a Garmin 1450 has the max speed showing on the screen of 611 KPH, which I leave there and don't reset. Now I know it is a quick 4x4 but I don't remember getting over 500KPH and I haven't taken it up in a plane.

All the GPS's I have used have jumped around at one time or another depending where I was.

Gaz, Hope you get the right answer you requested in your post about the calibration.


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Reply By: Member - Outback Gazz - Monday, Aug 17, 2015 at 18:50

Monday, Aug 17, 2015 at 18:50
G'day All


Got an email today from justice dot gov vic saying the road safety regulations 2009 require a hand held device must be tested within 12 months of its occasion of use and that the said device was tested 10 months prior to the offence ( date supplied ) and the test confirmed that the device was operating correctly and had been properly sealed in accordance with the regulations.

I happily paid the fine yesterday online and now only have 9 demerit points left !


Thanks to everyone who replied and especially to the former officers who gave their advice / opinions !


Cheers

Gazz

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