prospecting licence to get around council no camping signs

Submitted: Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 12:01
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I was told by a few travellers that if you have a prospecting license you can camp on crown land. I looked on the gov web site and it clearly says you can camp on crown land does this mean i can camp down on the beach and other places where the council has no camping signs and just tell them i am prospecting and show them my license.
Thanks all
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Reply By: Member - John - Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 12:28

Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 12:28
G'day, interesting question, I will watch the replies with interest...........
John and Jan

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Follow Up By: Member - Broodie H3 - Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 12:36

Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 12:36
good morning,
a very interesting question for so early in the morning, I don't know the answer but I shall wait with anticipation for the answer
Broodie H3
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Reply By: The Explorer - Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 12:55

Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 12:55
Hi

Not sure about other states but in WA a "prospecting licence" is issued for a set area of land (same as mining lease, exploration licence etc). You can't just get a "prospecting licence" that covers everywhere. Or do you mean a miners right?

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: Member - Stuart and Gunny - Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 13:04

Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 13:04
Hi Greg
I did read a little bit about miners right and prospecting but i did not read all the legislation.Im not sure which one covers what but it appeared that your were not restricted.
I will read it more when i get a chance but i was hoping someone on here would know the answer.
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Reply By: Ron N - Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 13:00

Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 13:00
Stuart - You would need to be a Philadelphia lawyer to argue successfully that a Prospecting Licence gives you the ability to override local council by-laws.

The council by-laws take priority over a PL. You would be hard-pressed to convince anyone in authority that a lovely sandy beach with great views and top-class fishing - and containing no-camping signs - is a highly-prospective place to find gold and other minerals, and you have the right to camp there to carry out your prospecting.
You could possibly carry out your prospecting there,if you were genuinely prospecting, but you would have to camp in a designated camping area.

Note that a PL (in W.A., anyway) does not give you the right to prospect in Reserves.
16% of the land in W.A. is covered by Reserves (National Parks and other land reserved for public use). Many beaches are part of Reserves.
You also have to liase with Pastoral Leaseholders when you have a PL. Pastoral Leaseholders rights take precedence over PL holders rights - so if a Pastoralist states you are interfering with his pastoral operations, you can be moved on.
You have to apply for special permission to prospect near waterholes, dwellings and other features that are critical to pastoral operations.

Council by-laws are the primary law or regulation of activities in everything we do on a daily basis. Even if you have a rural property, council planning laws and by-laws still apply to many of your rural pursuits, even in agricultural activities.
So, yes, a PL can give you a reason to camp on Crown Land - but if it came to an argument with a council officer, you would need to show that you are genuinely prospecting, that you are properly equipped to do so - and you are not in contravention of any local council by-laws, or the PL T's & C's.

Cheers, Ron.
(former gold miner, prospector, and gold mine owner)
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 13:10

Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 13:10
Greg is correct, my brain is out gear today, I should have been referring to a Miners Right, not a PL in the above post. A PL is issued for a pegged set area you want to investigate.
You would need to apply to the Wardens Court to get a PL issued over, say a beach area - and only after you have pegged it.
It usually takes a considerable length of time to get a PL issued, and there are many restrictions and conditions on PL's.
Below is a W.A. Govt advice document on the 7 golden rules of prospecting.
It does not specifically state anything about camping in non-camping areas, but that is because you are supposed to know that council by-laws are the primary regulation.

7 Golden Rules for prospecting

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 13:17

Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 13:17
I would add that a Prospecting Licence is the preliminary step to initiating a Mining Lease.
It's much cheaper to peg a PL than an ML, and the conditions are less onerous than an ML.
However, a PL does not give you the right to mine for minerals or ores on a commercial basis - it merely gives you a temporary right to exclusively explore, before you decide that the area either contains nothing of interest to you (whereby you relinquish the PL) - or the area does contain valuable minerals or ores, and you then decide to apply for an ML which gives you full mining rights.

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 13:29

Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 13:29
In the good old days (pre the major 1980 W.A. Mining Act revision), there were leases called Homestead Leases.
Many an old prospector had a Homestead Lease with a humpy or shack on it, pre-1980.
HL's were cheap, you could peg them almost anywhere, and make your home there.
However, the 1980 revision of the W.A. Mining Act saw HL's removed from the Act, as they were seen by councils to be an anachronism from the 1800's - and the councils were concerned that HL holders could construct buildings and other health-related activities, that did not meet over-arching Building and Health by-laws - because councils had no control over HL's. They were under the control of the Mines Dept.
Thus, HL's were removed from the new Mining Act - and all camping, building, health-and-other-related activities anywhere in a councils boundaries, are now under the control of the councils and must meet the same regulations and by-laws as apply in towns and cities.
All HL's were consolidated into the ML's on which they stood in the new Mining Act, and they ceased to exist once the new Act was passed.

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 13:35

Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 13:35
Below is the relevant advice from the W.A. Dept of Mines & Petroleum as regards prospecting in W.A.

Prospecting in Western Australia

Cheers, Ron.
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Reply By: The Explorer - Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 13:11

Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 13:11
As far as WA goes and if you have a miners right (not a prospecting license..that is different)...

Rights of the holder of a Miner's Right

The holder of Miner's Right is authorised under sections 20 and 400 of the Mining Act 1978 to carry out the following activities on Crown land not the subject of a mining tenement:

• prospect for minerals (including gold)
• conduct geological mapping
• conduct tests for minerals
• undertake limited sampling using hand held equipment and to remove samples up to 20kg
• mark out mining tenements
• fossick for rocks, gemstones, etc
• take water and camp for the purposes of prospecting

Possession of a Miner's Right does not authorise these activities on private land or reserve land (except where the purpose is a common, mining or public utility).

So, looks like in theory you could camp on the "beach" (for example) - but first it would need to be Crown Land not the subject of an existing tenement (unless it was your tenement), the area couldn't be a reserve (with some exceptions), and you would have to be legitimately carrying out prospecting..not just being a smart arse.

Wouldn't be surprised if other laws/regs override this "right" in certain areas but no idea what they may be.

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: Member - Broodie H3 - Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 13:32

Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 13:32
Thank you one and all that saves me from further research. thank you
Broodie H3
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Reply By: TomH - Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 13:44

Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 13:44
Its a shame people dont accept rules for what they are instead of trying to find ways around them.
There is always a reason behind them so perhaps accept them and go somewhere else.

Theres always one isnt there.
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Follow Up By: Bigfish - Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 14:13

Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 14:13
I reckon its great that people ask questions about the so called laws and to see if there is a way around them. Its called thinking out of the box and not just being another dumbarse sheeple who blindly follows laws, however stupid, introduced by councils, govts and police. Every week you read of some poor bugger getting done for violating some ridiculous law. Like the chap booked for having a helmet cam on his motorcycle helmet last week in Vic. In W.A. and Qld these are perfectly legal and actually encouraged by the police. Now the ridiculous thing about the Vic helmet debacle is that it translates to baby carriages and bicycle helmets too! Now many, many people are breaking the law by attaching stickers, zippy ties or lights to their bicycle helmets. Only a fool would believe that all the laws are for the betterment of the people.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 15:40

Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 15:40
There are numerous laws that are unnecessary and quite often an over-the-top reaction to minor problems.
However "no-camping" laws are generally in place for a reason - to stop the layabouts, the backpackers and the general "use-up-merchants" in our society from becoming a real nuisance and a health risk.

I'm personally regularly offended by the sight of backpackers (usually Europeans) who think its O.K. to take over beach carparks during the day, set themselves up like a home away from home, doing cooking, washing, and setting up tables, and taking over picnic tables, to the detriment of other beach or carpark users.
Then they also fill the bins to overflowing with their rubbish, taking advantage of every facility that has been provided, at no cost to them.

These are the people who cause the anger that develops into many council by-laws that are introduced to try and stop them from being a regular nuisance.
Most reasonable people know where they can camp, and know that restrictive laws are rarely applied when you're camping for a short period in a gravel pit that's many kms from civilisation.
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Reply By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 16:47

Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 16:47
Hi Gunny. Does Stuart know that you are mucking about on his computer?
Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: equinox - Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 22:24

Tuesday, Sep 22, 2015 at 22:24
Some further WA legislation:

Mining Regulations 1981
101. Manner of camping (Act s. 40D(1)(f))
For the purposes of section 40D(1)(f) the holder of a miner’s right may camp on Crown land in —
(a) a vehicle or caravan; or
(b) a tent or other temporary structure; or
(c) the open air.

Section 40D seem to be deleted.


Mining Act 1978
Crown land means all land except —
(a) land that has been reserved for or dedicated to any public purpose other than —
(i) land reserved for mining or commons;
(ii) land reserved and designated for public utility for any purpose under the Land Administration Act 1997
(b) land that has been lawfully granted or contracted to be granted in fee simple by or on behalf of the Crown;
(c) land that is subject to any lease granted by or on behalf of the Crown other than
(i) a pastoral lease within the meaning of the Land Administration Act 1997, or a lease otherwise granted for grazing purposes only; or
(ii) a lease for timber purposes; or
(iii) a lease of Crown land for the use and benefit of the Aboriginal inhabitants;
(d) land that is a townsite within the meaning of the Land
Administration Act 1997

Land Administration Act 1997
Public utility services means, “means drainage, electricity, gas, sewerage, telephone or water services or such other services as are prescribed for the purposes of this definition"


Off for my first bit of prospecting this long weekend, hoping for a bit of luck - All exploration leases and old gold mines imported into Oziexplorer :-)

Cheers
Alan


Looking for adventure.
In whatever comes our way.
"Outback Yonder"


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Reply By: OBJ - Wednesday, Sep 23, 2015 at 07:32

Wednesday, Sep 23, 2015 at 07:32
Can't imagine why you would want to do this apart from the mental exercise. Easier to just do as you are asked and find somewhere else. It proves nothing.
OBJ
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