Another electrical question.

So my recently purchased calper trailer has a 15amp male plug wired up to plug in for power. How do I go about being able to plug this into a 10amp power point at home to charge batteries?
Can I just put a 15amp female socket on one end of a lead and the 10 amp male plug on the other???

Thank you.
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Reply By: Member - KeithB - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 00:22

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 00:22
I think It's frowned upon but that's the way everyone else seems to do it.
AnswerID: 590722

Follow Up By: Motherhen - Saturday, Sep 26, 2015 at 00:09

Saturday, Sep 26, 2015 at 00:09
Not just frowned upon, it is illegal. It is also illegal to do electrical work such fitting plugs to leads unless you are a licensed electrician.

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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Saturday, Sep 26, 2015 at 19:59

Saturday, Sep 26, 2015 at 19:59
If everyone who fitted a new plug to a lead or changed a power point was fined, State Governments could survive on 5% GST !! Michael
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Reply By: bellony - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 00:26

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 00:26
Now that would probably be illegal.
Not sure why we all have to have 15A plugs on our campers when we have nothing in them that draws anywhere near that current, and not many people have 15 A sockets at home to use. You can buy expensive adaptors with RCDs to do what you need, or what you suggest, or what a friend of mine did is cut the 15A lead ground pin down to fit in the normal 10A socket at home.
AnswerID: 590723

Reply By: Batt's - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 00:58

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 00:58
I fitted a 15 amp outdoor power point in my carport when I had a van only needed it to cool the fridge down before going away so no risk of overloading the supply line. Never used the 240v lights even at van parks because the 12v fluro ones I fitted were brighter. It's illegal but if you're sensible about what your doing I don't see any harm but some people will freak out about it but you get that.
AnswerID: 590724

Reply By: Member - Mark (Tamworth NSW) - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 06:55

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 06:55
Shane

If you do a search on "15A" you will find this has been asked at least twice before with some authorative replies over it being illegal or outright dangerous.
I have asked a friend who is an electrician and he said provided you don't have a large load, it is perfectly fine.
As someone above asked, what will be drawing power when you have it plugged in at your home?
In my camper trailer it is only the 10A battery charger. If I was living in a caravan with an air conditioner, then that is a different story.
Instead of doing as you have suggested above, make up an adapter, (15A female plug, short length of cable and 10A male plug). That way you can use your 15A cord as it is supposed to be in caravan parks.

But do the 15A search and see the numerous replies and assess the authorative replies yourself.
AnswerID: 590726

Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 07:37

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 07:37
Shane,

Don't mess about. Keep it legal and safe.

Jaycar have a 15A to 10A Mains converter for $80. These are quite safe to use for most home situations, although they are not waterproof. I believe waterproof housings are available.

15A to 10A RCD Outlet

You can also buy an Ampfibian mini unit for a similar price.
Ampfibian Mini


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AnswerID: 590728

Reply By: Member - Rich - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 07:40

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 07:40
Check out ampfibian adapters sold in the shop on the forum

Can get them else where as well

Rich
AnswerID: 590729

Reply By: Ozhumvee - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 07:44

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 07:44
You have two "legal" options, you can change the plug and the RCD/circuit breaker on the van to a 10 amp ones and then be able to plug it into any power point which is probably the best way to go if you don't ever anticipate fitting a/c or other high drain appliances.
The other option is to use either an Amphibian type device which limits the current to 10 amp when plugged into a 10 amp powerpoint.
The cheapest one available is from Jaycar and looks like an old style orange RCD unit.
see here http://www.jaycar.com.au/Power-Products-Electrical/Distribution-%26-Interconnect/Powerboards%2C-Adaptors-%26-Extension-Leads/Portable-RCD-with-15A-to-10A-Mains-Plug-Conversion/p/MS4044
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AnswerID: 590730

Follow Up By: Batt's - Saturday, Sep 26, 2015 at 01:20

Saturday, Sep 26, 2015 at 01:20
3rd option a bit more expensive but safe get an eleco to wire up a 15 amp power point legally where you require it.
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FollowupID: 858781

Reply By: TomH - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 08:39

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 08:39
The amphibian mini and the Jaycar one are only legal to use indoors or out of the weather as are the HPM ones sold by Bunnings etc.

The only fully usable legal way is with a full size amphibian or by installing a 15 amp circuit in your house. It isnt expensive We did one by fitting the correct circuit breaker and changing a 10amp GPO to a 15 amp. Cost about $100 for the parts.

Makes it all nice and legal should anything go wrong and you have trouble with your insurance company.

It is DEFINITELY illegal to make a cheater cord despite the "Ive used one for 40 years" brigade.
AnswerID: 590732

Reply By: vk1dx - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 09:00

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 09:00
Maybe I am missing something here. This is to the sparkys. Why can't he just run a 10A extension lead and change the RCD to 10A?

Does he really need 15A? Are Caravan parks 15A or something?

Phil
AnswerID: 590733

Follow Up By: Gronk - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 09:46

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 09:46
Yep, caravan parks are 15A..and his inlet is 15A..

I use a "cheater" lead at home ( 300mm long ) and the only thing it can power is the van and the only thing it can run in the van is a couple of led lights and the batt charger, so it cannot get overloaded.
Perfectly safe for that scenario......BUT it is ILLEGAL.

For the person grinding down a 15A earth pin to suit 10A, apart from illegal, that is a good way to wreck a good lead and if a park operator saw you using it, would ban it and then you'd have to buy another !
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FollowupID: 858742

Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 21:38

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 21:38
Phil, to answer your question without going off topic - yes it is possible to change the the 15 A inlet on the van and also you must change any protection circuit breakers in the van as well. If you do that you can plug your van into any 10 A outlet using a 10 A lead.
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 22:05

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 22:05
Thought so. Just basic stuff. Catchya
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FollowupID: 858773

Reply By: Seagecko - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 09:57

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 09:57
No matter what anyone else tells you (even if he's an electrician) it is ILLEGAL to posess a lead with a 10 amp plug and 15 amp socket.
Even if you say you will never do it, there is nothing to stop someone plugging (for instance) a 15 amp welder or other large tool, appliance, or caravan into a 10 amp outlet with that sort of lead. This can most certainly lead to overheating of the 10 amp power point and subsequent fire.
Also, most caravans these days can easily draw 15 amps, with toasters, hotplates, hot water systems, air conditioners, etc.
I have even seen a small camper trailer running an electric heater and jug, well in excess of 15 amps.
It's easy to see why caravan parks are required BY LAW to provide 15 amp outlets for all caravan outlets.
So, if you must use a 10 amp powerpoint, why don't you just use a 10 amp extension lead running directly to the battery charger? It certainly won't be hard wired into the 15 amp inlet on the trailer.
However, it is perfectly legan to use an "Ampfibian" or equivalent if you want to use the normal 15 amp inlet.
Cheers,
Gaz
(Senior Inspector)
AnswerID: 590735

Follow Up By: Batt's - Saturday, Sep 26, 2015 at 01:27

Saturday, Sep 26, 2015 at 01:27
Just curious how can the people you saw run well in excess of 15 amp without tripping out the system of frying their extension lead or melting a plug sounds a bit odd.
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FollowupID: 858782

Follow Up By: Phil 23 - Saturday, Sep 26, 2015 at 06:48

Saturday, Sep 26, 2015 at 06:48
And the lead with the 15amp plug at both ends is right out of the question.

But I believe it works a treat in those 8 hour blackouts to power up various circuits in the house.
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FollowupID: 858784

Reply By: Gramps - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 10:27

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 10:27
Bite the bullet and get a 15amp circuit installed at home. It won't cost that much.

Regards
AnswerID: 590736

Follow Up By: Motherhen - Saturday, Sep 26, 2015 at 00:07

Saturday, Sep 26, 2015 at 00:07
If only used at home, this is the cheapest and safest option. You have the full use of 15 amps instead of 10 amps too if you need it.

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Reply By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 11:37

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 11:37
Just waiting for Bantam to wade in......... 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, .................
AnswerID: 590738

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 18:44

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 18:44
Oh why bother ..... but because you insist...... its obvious that using a 10 amp plug and a 15 amp socket is stupid and illegal ... and there are several perfectly legal and safe solutions that are neither hard nor expensive or take much effort.

cheers
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FollowupID: 858764

Reply By: Member - Robert1660 - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 12:12

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 12:12
My Tvan has the same issue. The solution is to purchase a metre of 3 core electrical flex and place a 15 amp socket on one end and a 10 amp plug on the other. If you are only charging batteries you will never overload the system. Possibly illegal but it is a solution if used only for this purpose works perfectly well.
Robert
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AnswerID: 590739

Reply By: Shane H9 - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 12:55

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 12:55
Thanks all for the input so far.
It is only to charge batterry while at home. Not running anything else on it. I have bought a proper 15 amp lead for use at caravan parks.

Thanks
AnswerID: 590742

Reply By: Seagecko - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 12:59

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 12:59
Further to my post above about the legality of 10 to 15 amp leads, be aware of the following:
If you advise somebody to make an illegal lead, and somebody or something is injured or damaged as a result, you are liable and may be prosecuted, and there will be no insurance of any kind.
Just a friendly reminder...... :-)
Cheers,
Gaz
Senior Electrical Inspector
AnswerID: 590743

Follow Up By: Gronk - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 13:49

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 13:49
What a load of rubbish....if I advise someone over the internet to make a lead and they injure themselves, I can be prosecuted ?? How are you going to find me....do a trace on my IP address ?

If you read some of the replies, apart from saying they only use the illegal leads for charging at home, they also acknowledge that it is ILLEGAL, and no one is advising anyone else to make one !!

I'm an electrical fitter, so know exactly why they are illegal, and also know exactly the load being drawn by my lead AT HOME......and I'm the only one who knows where that illegal 300mm long lead is stored.

These posts are a good thing....they educate people as to the reasons why 15A leads are needed and why the 15 to 10 A leads are illegal, but no amount of threats will stop some doing the wrong thing.
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FollowupID: 858746

Follow Up By: Seagecko - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 15:41

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 15:41
Gronk,
Don't get your knickers in a twist.

1. What I stated is 100% true, IT IS NOT RUBBISH.
If someone is injured or worse through heeding shonky advice, the shonk WILL be found. They cannot hide, regardless of the technology.

2. You are right in saying some replies acknowledge the illegality, but some still state that it is perfectly safe and/or acceptable.

3. Just because you think (or know) you won't get caught does not make it OK for other less knowledgable persons to break the law.
You might have a car that you regularly drive at 200 kmh on a deserted road, but that doesn't mean that Joe Bloggs should do the same in his neighbourhood.

4. You're sadly mistaken if you think I'm making threats. I'm only advising people not to take chances when it comes to electrical advice, because I have seen many accidents which left unsuspecting victims virtually homeless and broke (and worse).

Finally, as an electrical fitter yourself, you are certain to acknowledge that unqualified persons know far less than you do about the dangers of faulty or illegal work, and should not be encouraged to carry out that work, whether it be at home or otherwise.

I will not be responding to any further rants on the subject.

Gaz
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FollowupID: 858749

Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 16:33

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 16:33
Hi Gaz
How do we know you are a Senior Electrical Inspector?
The internet is full or self-appointed Inspectors, Doctors, Engineers, Lawyers etc.
I am always wary of people quoting their unsubstantiated qualifications on websites like this.
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FollowupID: 858753

Follow Up By: Seagecko - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 16:43

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 16:43
Dennis,
You will just have to take my word for it unless you want to send me a personal email.
I'm not prepared to give personal information to all and sundry on an open forum.
As you said earlier, you could be an identity thief.
If you choose not to believe me, that's your problem, not mine.
You have now lost a long-time member.
Gaz
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FollowupID: 858755

Follow Up By: Gronk - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 17:14

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 17:14
Gaz, for an inspector who has no doubt dealt with a lot of "tradies", you seem to be very thin skinned....why are you threatening to pack your ball and going home ??

You never know, some here might want to avail themselves of some of your knowledge , especially on this subject.

Pick your bottom lip up and stand up........this is a forum, and a debate is one way of learning things.......so maybe you can pass a bit of knowledge along !!
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FollowupID: 858758

Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 17:33

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 17:33
Hi Gaz
You’re dead right, I could be an identity thief but that’s not likely – I don’t have an identity worth stealing.
Don’t desert the website because you took insult at my remarks – I am just having a bit a stir.
0
FollowupID: 858760

Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 21:51

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 21:51
Quote
"Gronk posted:
What a load of rubbish....if I advise someone over the internet to make a lead and they injure themselves, I can be prosecuted ?? How are you going to find me....do a trace on my IP address ?"

You will have enough trace on the net to be traced. That's what metadata retention is all about. The law they will get you under is aiding and abetting. . Look it up.

"you seem to be very thin skinned....why are you threatening to pack your ball and going home ??"

I did not see where he is spitting the dummy, I thought he was saying he was just not going to argue the toss with you. Do you also have a poor comprehension of English?
PeterD
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 23:02

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 23:02
Aiding and abetting ?? What ??

If I tell you to go and take a jump....and you jump off a bridge and kill yourself, I'm liable ?? Get real !!

I didn't see where he mentioned he wasn't going to argue the toss with me....maybe your comprehension of english means making things up !!

In fact , until you poked your nose in, I didn't think there was any arguing at all..
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FollowupID: 858777

Follow Up By: Member - Blue M - Saturday, Sep 26, 2015 at 23:30

Saturday, Sep 26, 2015 at 23:30
I have one in my van that I bought from Mitre 10 a few years ago. It was factory made as it has moulded ends on it. I do use it from time to time to do what others do and just run a fridge and charger in my van. I never new that they were illegal until I starting reading this forum, so how dumb am I.
Can anyone tell me, is there a difference in the size of the internal wires, or is the size of the earth pin the only difference. I carry 3 leads in my van, a long 15A, one not so long 15A and the 15A to 10A. The shortest 15A lead is smaller in circumference and it weighs less than the 10 to 15A. Both of them are the same length.
I do hope some one can explain this to me.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 858812

Reply By: Dennis Ellery - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 14:37

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 14:37
Proof of Identity is impossible on this website as no one except me and Robin Miller use our real names – and even that can’t be proved. In fact I could be an impersonator stealing my identity.
AnswerID: 590746

Reply By: TomH - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 15:18

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 15:18
Personally I think the thread should be deleted and the moderators should not allow the promotion of illegal electrical devices of any kind.

To do so is irresponsible
AnswerID: 590747

Follow Up By: Gronk - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 16:32

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 16:32
Yes, they should not allow the promotion of illegal devices..

But I don't see the promotion of them, in fact most are saying they are illegal.

With a bit of debate, maybe some can find out why they are illegal, and then decide that elect things should only be done by electricians.

I seem to recall plenty of posts about speed limits and towing, and plenty of people admitting to speeding and towing over the weight limits.....are they not illegal practises as well ?
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FollowupID: 858752

Follow Up By: Batt's - Saturday, Sep 26, 2015 at 01:39

Saturday, Sep 26, 2015 at 01:39
Reading is easy but comprehending something is sometimes hard to do if you jump the gun before you finish reading the whole story.
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FollowupID: 858783

Reply By: ExplorOz Team - Michelle - Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 17:30

Friday, Sep 25, 2015 at 17:30
Sounds like people need to read more of the articles in our Power & Electrics section. See our article Using Power Leads: Facts & Regulations for this exact issue explained.
Michelle Martin
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AnswerID: 590749

Reply By: Phil 23 - Saturday, Sep 26, 2015 at 07:01

Saturday, Sep 26, 2015 at 07:01
Here's another option for getting that 15 amp caravan, power tool or whatever else won't plug in. Spotted it at Bunnings the other day.




Cheers
AnswerID: 590756

Follow Up By: TomH - Saturday, Sep 26, 2015 at 07:46

Saturday, Sep 26, 2015 at 07:46
That would be suitable provided it was used indoors.

As on the second pic it complies with a different standard to the one that applies to "Use with portable structures"

It also says is for indoor use only
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FollowupID: 858787

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