Uluru Climb Chains Cut

Submitted: Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 13:21
ThreadID: 130718 Views:3642 Replies:14 FollowUps:31
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A person has cut the safety chains of the Uluru climb track.News Report here.

"Repairs to the safety chain would require approval by Uluru's Board of Management, who could decide against it, and potentially halt climbing."
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Allan

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Reply By: Member - Rosco from way back - Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 13:32

Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 13:32
More of the same old, same old.

The amount of misinformation being spread around in that neck of the woods is amazing. Quite a few years back we were staying at Curtin Springs and spoke to an elderly gent who actually installed the chain.

He was telling me about a number of waterholes on that property that were designated as "sacred sites" however were bores that he personally dug. Go figure ..........?
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Reply By: dean ( SA ) - Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 14:23

Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 14:23
Well I'm glad my kids have been able to climb Ayers Rock...might not be allowed one day and this kind of stupidity doesn't help.
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Reply By: Member - Robert1660 - Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 14:26

Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 14:26
Hi Guys,
Certainly one would never approve of the chains being cut nevertheless the days of climbing the rock are numbered. The indigenous owners do ask you not to climb and although I agree with the sentiment expressed about the concept of "sacred places" being overused what is the point of the climb? Firstly it is potentially dangerous and there are no toilet facilities. If you want to view the area take a helicopter tour.
I do appreciate that indigenous issues do cause considerable debate. However, the more you visit the outback the more you appreciate aspects of indigenous culture.
When last at Uluru we were told that something like 25% of visitors do climb. It was suggested that once the percentage falls to something like 20% the climb will be permanently closed.
Robert
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Follow Up By: Whirlwinder - Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 15:55

Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 15:55
My feeling exactly. Look and admire but don't climb on it. What does it prove??
Ian
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Follow Up By: Member - Broodie H3 - Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 16:43

Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 16:43
we were out there this time last year and it was blowing a gale big signs up saying don't climb the rock because of the strong winds, so I presumed some European type people, and I only presume don't understand English German, French, Italian Chinese, and Japanese, decided that they were going to climb the rock anyway, two ladies and one gentleman, off they go they get about a quarter of they way up they have already lost there footing several times, and the wind has blown off there hats and sunglasses, there water bottles have come tumbling down, and now they need to be rescued from there own stupidity.
I climbed the Rock in 1972, and to me it was an adventure, with a couple of mates, it was something I had always wanted to do, and I suppose the same with most people that want to climb it but we did it early morning with no wind, we had about an hour on top of the rock and to me it was one of the most uplifting places I have ever been too. As far as I am concerned let people climb the rock leave the safety chians in place and treat it with the respect it commands, because if you don't you'll come unstuck. tread softly, and admire what we share with all cultures. that is my two bobs worth.
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Follow Up By: Member - PhilD_NT - Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 18:36

Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 18:36
I would like to know how this percentage figure is arrived at. There is another side of this that has been often mentioned up here and its that with the number of times that it gets closed to climbing at short notice then the percentages is becoming artificially reduced. Many people who want to climb it are being stopped by rules rather than by their own choice. The suspicion is that there is deliberate action being taken to make it appear that only a minor percentage are choosing to climb. As well, there are people not going to the rock if they can't be assured that it will be open. Like with the Olgas and Kings Canyon I'm happy that I got to see it all prior to the restrictions.
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Follow Up By: Member - lyndon NT - Sunday, Nov 01, 2015 at 22:27

Sunday, Nov 01, 2015 at 22:27
"Why climb it?" "Take a helicopter ride"
MMM, maybe some people enjoy the experience......
Why go bush walking, drive or take a helicopter ride................................
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Follow Up By: Bravo Man - Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 15:40

Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 15:40
Well said Lyndon
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Reply By: Capt. Wrongway - Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 14:59

Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 14:59
Sorry, but I say it as I see it ................ if there was no money to be made from it, they would'nt want it. I was there not so long ago and witnessed the locals ( not kids ) offering to take visitor's pictures for money. Not good for a advertised Australian iconic site.

Capt.
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Follow Up By: Member - MARIC - Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 23:57

Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 23:57
It just shows business astuteness of the young ones ;o))
Ohh can you give us a tenner for some smokes
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 16:27

Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 16:27
Sounds like you're a scholar of indigenous culture Capt. Oddly enough my limited knowledge suggests you're not even in the ball park. Uluru has been part of aboriginal culture for centuries - long before we westerners arrived and long before it became a tourist icon. But even if you were right I wonder how that attitude is any different from the thousands of non-indigenous businesses who take sudden interests in our natural wonders only when they can make a buck from them?
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Follow Up By: Capt. Wrongway - Friday, Oct 30, 2015 at 08:17

Friday, Oct 30, 2015 at 08:17
No, I'm not a scholar of indigenous culture, I'm just an Australian bloke that has spent most of his younger working days traveling this country, working on outback properties with whites and blacks alike ( people of our indigenous culture ). And yes you are right, it may be considered part of their "culture", but until many of them ( not all of them ) discovered "white man's money" it became a farce. Go out there now and take a look at the provided facilities. Run down and in disrepair. Don't blame everyone else for this, they wanted to run it. My wife nearly puked up after going into the toilets.
I would have more respect for them if they just stuck a sign on it saying " Closed - Cultural Site - No Trespassing".
But ... you are entitled to your opinion, as am I.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Friday, Oct 30, 2015 at 23:25

Friday, Oct 30, 2015 at 23:25
I've been there 3 times Capt, although not for many years. Must have been unlucky each time because I missed the "farces". Just a thought - who despoiled the toilets I wonder? I look forward to your forum comments regarding the myriad "white man's" facilities which are equally as "bad" as those you apparently encountered at Uluru.
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Follow Up By: Capt. Wrongway - Saturday, Oct 31, 2015 at 08:20

Saturday, Oct 31, 2015 at 08:20
I'm not going to get into a argument on this because it seems these days unless you agree with the "politically correct" views on our indigenous culture you get labeled a racist. I'm an old boy that's traveled this country probably more than many others, and I have a condition that protects me from this ..... I'm allergic to bull bleep .

As I said, every one is entitled top their opinions, including me. Oh, by the way, what my family witnessed there was about two months ago. With respect, perhaps before you form that opinion that your entitled to, you get out there now and take a look.



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Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Oct 31, 2015 at 08:51

Saturday, Oct 31, 2015 at 08:51
A friend of mine, unfortunately now deceased, spent many years in the Outback ,including a lot of time with the indigenous population who told him that Mount Connor had much more significance to them.

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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Saturday, Oct 31, 2015 at 11:12

Saturday, Oct 31, 2015 at 11:12
Every nation, culture, creed has it's pros and cons, good and bad. If you look for negatives you'll invariably find them.
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Follow Up By: Member - silkwood - Saturday, Oct 31, 2015 at 17:32

Saturday, Oct 31, 2015 at 17:32
It gets a little tiring hearing stories of " a mate heard from someone who knows...". I've worked with the Anangu on their own lands ( not heard from a mate) and the view of the elders is clear- they do not want people to climb but had immense pressure put upon them in the early days and since have felt they are not comfortable stopping other Australians from climbing. If some are now using tactics to achieve this aim in what appears to many to be nefarious means, I for one don't blame them.

It is true that some indigenous make claims that aren't accurate, it is true that many arrive in Alice to drink . It is true that some youngsters try to take advantage of visitors. So what? There are some in all communities who go against the grain. They are also a people who have had much taken from them and endured much bias and hardship. I'm not surprised they are a people with issues.

The place is called Uluru, though Ayers Rock is, sadly, its official alternative designation. I find it astounding some are ridiculous enough to insist on using a name given to the place by someone who had nothing to do with the place, naming it after some secretary he wanted to brown nose. It was probably named Uluru when my ancestors were banging rocks together wondering what all the fuss was about.
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Reply By: The Landy - Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 17:24

Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 17:24
Whilst standing clear of the debate around the right of people to climb Uluru or the rights of Indigenous and Traditional Owners to ask you not to – I will comment on the technical aspect of climbing it.

I was last in Uluru in August this year and I observed people of all shapes and sizes, fitness levels (as observed), ages and nationalities attempting to climb the rock.

Now this is done with the aid of a safety chain, in parts, and whilst from a climbing proposition it isn’t necessarily an overly steep incline, it will not be without some difficulty for those who are not accustomed to climbing.

Perhaps many are blinded by the need to climb versus any perceived risk it might entail. As is often said “you don’t know, what you don’t know”…

I did not see one person who was attached to the safety chain. With a background in climbing I would be comfortable climbing this without necessarily attaching myself but not if there were a number of people above me, and I would have the equipment at the ready to attach myself.

My point is that at any given time, through some kind of mishap you could have a person tumble and take out any number of other people along the way as they fall – a disaster waiting to happen.

It could be a slip, dizziness through heat exhaustion, lack of attention, one could compile any number of scenarios under which it could happen – Murphy’s Law says if you don’t think it can happen it almost certainly will…

And for sure, you don’t read about it happening, if in fact it has happened at all at Uluru, but anyone who climbs it is placing their fate in the hands of those above them. And once you tumble the next stop is the bottom with dire consequences…

Rest assured, I’m no wall-flower when it comes to climbing and adventure – but I say do it safely in full acknowledgment of the risks it presents. When it comes to Uluru I suspect many are blissfully unaware of the risk they are taking…

My take on it anyway… “Climb on”




Cheers, Baz – The Landy
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Follow Up By: Sand Man (SA) - Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 18:46

Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 18:46
I personally don't give a tinkers toss about climbing the rock.

To appease "the traditional owners", perhaps the whole commercial enterprise surrounding Ayers Rock should be shut down. Where would "the traditional owners" then get their funding from?
I would hazzard a guess they too would soon leave the area.

Places like Ayers Rock should be available to ALL Australians and overseas visitors, not just a minority group who claim ownership because they got there first. After all, regardless of being here a bit longer, they too were immigrants.

Flame me if you will!
Bill


I'm diagonally parked in a parallel Universe!

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Follow Up By: Member - Mark (Tamworth NSW) - Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 18:46

Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 18:46
Gee Baz as a non climber I wouldn't have thought of the people tumbling from above aspect.
I'm respectful of loose stones falling when bushwalking on steep scree slopes, but never imagined "human bowling balls".
Having climbed Uluru, I can imagine how that could happen.
PS heights don't worry me, rock climbing just isn't my thing when there is an easier way
Mark
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 20:45

Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 20:45
Hi Mark...

The risk is probably greater than realised, but discounted and overlooked by many who desire to climb. I would like to see people at least have some form or way of securing themselves if they are going to climb...

Bill

As mentioned, I'm saying out of that debate and leave it to others, my interest lies solely in safety and awareness of the risks if one chooses to climb.

Cheers, Baz
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Follow Up By: Member - Blue M - Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 02:54

Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 02:54
Sandman I agree with you.
I went to see the Rock in 2008, cost me $50.00 to get up close to have a look at it.

When you get up close after paying 50 bucks, you are reminded at every place of interest around the base DON'T TAKE PHOTO'S, it's a sacred site.

For the day that I was there, I saw only two native people. Both were elderly ladies sitting on the floor doing paintings.

(I may be wrong but I don't think you could buy a beer there at the Rock.)

A couple of days later on arriving at Alice Springs, I soon learned where the rest of the tribe was located.
I spent more time dodging people asking, "brother give me ten bucks, I'm starving" than I did looking at things in the main part of town.

Myself personally I think if it is that much of a sacred site, it should be a no entry to any white man.
Just my thoughts.
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Follow Up By: OutBack Wanderers - Friday, Oct 30, 2015 at 22:27

Friday, Oct 30, 2015 at 22:27
Just looking at bloke on the face of cliff, Who said this was a short cut?

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Follow Up By: The Landy - Saturday, Oct 31, 2015 at 08:37

Saturday, Oct 31, 2015 at 08:37
It is about 200 metres up from the valley floor and the climb itself around 110 metres! It is near Leura, the climb is called "Sweet Dreams" and you get some magnificent views along the way, it is what makes it all worthwhile...

Cheers, Baz
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Follow Up By: Member - silkwood - Sunday, Nov 01, 2015 at 18:54

Sunday, Nov 01, 2015 at 18:54
Baz, you've brought back memories.. my first multi-pitch in the blue mountains! Main memory (while ago now) is of bricking it at one section just at the start of the traverse. Or maybe towards the end, can't exactly remember anymore (common story nowadays, unfortunately). Miss Escalade, pity it finished. Met lots of good people there.

Cheers.
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Follow Up By: Bravo Man - Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 15:53

Tuesday, Nov 03, 2015 at 15:53
Sweet Dreams Baz. Not as bad as it looks

Peter
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Wednesday, Nov 04, 2015 at 07:29

Wednesday, Nov 04, 2015 at 07:29
Hey Peter...shoosh ;)

A relatively easy and straight forward multi-pitch climb, depending on the route, that showcases this beautiful part of the Blue Mountains.

But let me put “relative” in the context of my post and this photograph…

For many, Uluru will be a relatively straight forward climb under “normal conditions” – for others it might be relatively difficult.

Understanding and managing the risk is paramount; as usual complacency is the enemy and safety should be at forefront of mind. The trick to staying in the game is to recognise and understand both.

If this can’t be achieved be by all that might climb, an arbiter, usually the park rangers, need to make the call so UIuru can be climbed in “relative safety” by all…

Mind you, no doubt many will disagree with this approach, but like speed limits and restrictions on the road, it needs to be designed with the lowest common denominator in mind, such is the way of the world since common sense became far less common!


Cheers, Baz – The Landy
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Reply By: Member - Scrubby (VIC) - Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 19:42

Wednesday, Oct 28, 2015 at 19:42
I climbed Ayers Rock in April 1964 there was no chain, not even a painted line to follow.

The Ranger suggested that I wear thick socks and "Desert Boots" to save blisters on my toes.

At the top there was a large board with a large pencil attached by string to write my name.
I wonder if it`s still there ? LOL

Scrubby.
I don`t know where i`m going but i`m enjoying the journey.

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Reply By: Member - MARIC - Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 00:06

Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 00:06
Digressing a little now,
Mt Everest is sacred to the Nepalese, so they tell everyone one not to climb it?
It provides them with a living, but the refuse is left behind.
Go figure
Ps to the peanut who cut the chains I refer to those types as "crayfish" . S..t in the head and meat in the tail.
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 10:48

Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 10:48
As a matter of interest…

In terms of rubbish on Mt Everest, in addition to paying climbing fees, expeditions are now required to pay a deposit of around $5,000 which is forfeited if they do not return to base camp with 8kg of rubbish (including human excrement) for every climber in the expedition.

This was brought in last year, but as the climbing season didn’t proceed this year, or last, it has yet to be enforced, but the authorities intend to police…

A positive step, especially given the numbers now climbing it…


Cheers, Baz – The Landy


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Reply By: Erad - Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 09:49

Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 09:49
I have climbed the rock twice, and don't particularly want to climb it again. However, I still feel that anyone should be able to climb it if they want to. Having said that, the last time I climbed it, we had just picked up our daughter and a friend after that had flown in to the airport at Uluru. We had lunch and then set off for the top of the rock. On our way up (it was about 2:00 pm and rather hot), everyone coming down told us "You'll be OK - there's a bloke selling Coca Cola up there". Oh Yer says us, but when we got there, sure enough, there was a bloke laying on his backpack with cans of coke for $2.00 each. This was back in 1991, so it was a fairly steep price then. He had bought 2 slabs of coke and had walked them up. I often wonder what happened to the empties after whoever bought them had finished the contents. Incidentally, we didn't buy any from him.

The first time we did the climb, it was raining when we got there, so we wet in and had a pie at the local cafe. Whilst eating the pies, the sky cleared and it was really beautiful, so naturally we headed off and did the climb. At the top, there was the visitor's book, but with a biro instead of a pencil. The paper in the book was so wet that the biro wouldn't write. Sure enough, after reaching the top, we headed back and the clouds and wind came back with a vengeance. Our daughter was only 11 years old at the time, and she kept getting blown off her feet by the wind. My wife had to stand upwind of her and I was downwind. I went down the chain stretch about 2 metres away from the chain. Daughter got lifted off her feet several times on the chain section. I can see how dangerous it can be.

Next morning, blue sky - not a trace of cloud. Water cascading from every little crevice in the rock. Brilliant colours on the rock. Absolutely stunning. Amazing place. The Olgas even moer amazing. Have never been back there - must go one day.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 16:50

Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 16:50
Iirc the Japanese fellow who died on the climb was trying to retrieve his hat which had blown off in the wind at the top.
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Reply By: Sigmund - Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 12:14

Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 12:14
It's comic, folk complaining cos they can't go wherever they like. I'll come and crap in your backyard OK? Just like tourists that crap on top of Uluru which by the way is owned by the Anangu.
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Follow Up By: Member - lyndon NT - Sunday, Nov 01, 2015 at 22:50

Sunday, Nov 01, 2015 at 22:50
Well taking a crap on the rock is pretty sad. But so then is the way lots of the black fella's live. You been in their houses? I have, LOTS of them. Crap on the floor, yes, crap. Cockroaches by the thousands, flea's by the billion. Lots of kids don't go to school, many now don't speak English.
I could post photo's but I would just make everyone sick.
I would suggest every tax payer in the country should see where their dollars are going.
I'm just happy I got to climb the rock twice, magic experience. Only black fella I saw was in Yulara and he was trying to get me to buy beer for him.
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 07:50

Monday, Nov 02, 2015 at 07:50
Whilst it is fair to say some of the points raised do apply to our indigenous community, factually it also applies right across the community and not limited to any one race, colour, or nationality.

We pay all kinds of welfare to all Australians, including pensions, health care benefits, single mother pensions, disability pensions, unemployment benefits, and on it goes…

In fact, you can own a home worth $millions these days collect a pension and tour Australia in a van and rig worth a fortune, such is the generosity of Australia’s welfare system. So be careful calling for taxpayer’s to scrutinise where their dollars are going…

Personally, for the less fortunate I think welfare and provision for those not so fortunate is the right thing for a developed society to do.

On living in squalor, anyone who has spent time working with many of our community based aid organisations, or has spent time with, or spoken to the Police Local Area Command’s across our major and not so larger cities in Australia will confirm, tragically, that this is not an uncommon problem. It is far from being a “black man’s problem”.

On climbing Uluru (Ayers Rock if you prefer) – it remains possible to climb it, in fact apart from operational reasons, it has never been closed to climbing, and I’m betting it won’t be any time soon.

All Australian’s and visitors to our country have the opportunity to climb it should they elect to, and that remains a personal choice.

For sure, there are conditions related to safety that may see it closed under certain environmental conditions at any given time– and rightly so. These conditions are widely publicised and are a sensible way of ensuring it can be climbed safely.

So let’s keep some perspective on this otherwise it just looks like another “bash our indigenous population thread”.

Baz – The Landy
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Follow Up By: Member - lyndon NT - Sunday, Nov 08, 2015 at 12:50

Sunday, Nov 08, 2015 at 12:50
Hi Baz

I agree, but I also state that until you have seen it first hand it's really hard to comprehend.
It sure is an eye opener for the Irish tradesmen!
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Reply By: The Landy - Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 18:19

Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 18:19
Allowing people to climb the rock is an exercise in risk management.

The people vested with making decisions on whether it is open or closed at any particular time of the day need to take account of the “lowest common denominator” when it comes to the ability of people to not only climb it with as little risk to themselves and others, but their ability to assess the prevailing conditions and its impact on doing the climb.

There is nothing unusual about that, it is the way of the world these days especially since common sense became less common.

And there is plenty of risk climbing it, the problem is many people simply fail to understand or appreciate what it is. This is understandable, for many people this might be the only climb they have done or will ever do.

In commentary I have read on this subject I see a common theme from many who expect to be able to climb simply because they have paid an entrance fee to the park and travelled hundreds of kilometres to get there – I say don’t be blind-sided by this thinking, it has been the downfall of many in all kinds of situations…

Uluru, or for those who prefer, Ayers Rock, has lured Australian’s since “Adam was a boy” and I get that – I’m not here to lecture on the topic, nor to argue for or against people climbing it, that is a choice for the individual

But can I suggest we give respect to those making daily decisions on climbing – it is doubtful those vested with the day to day decision making of opening and closing the climb concern themselves with anything other than the safety of intending climbers and those around them. From my experience these are decent people like you and me who generally have our best interest forefront of mind…


Cheers, Baz – The Landy
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Follow Up By: Whirlwinder - Saturday, Oct 31, 2015 at 15:23

Saturday, Oct 31, 2015 at 15:23
Thanks Landy for a very good reply.
I feel you have thought clearly on the subject and posted accordingly.
Well done.
Ian
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Follow Up By: Steve in Kakadu - Sunday, Nov 08, 2015 at 13:31

Sunday, Nov 08, 2015 at 13:31
This story does prove your point Landy and mine above, Uluru Climb to reopen..

While Sally Barnes is Director I would be confident that the climb will stay.
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Reply By: Jackolux - Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 20:12

Thursday, Oct 29, 2015 at 20:12
I have been to the Rock 9 times , first time was way back when l was in school . The first 6 or 7 trips was when there was really no restrictions , you could climb pretty much 24/7 .

I have been lucky enought to climb it with my 3 kids , even been there when it rained , fantastic sight

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Reply By: Steve in Kakadu - Sunday, Nov 01, 2015 at 00:00

Sunday, Nov 01, 2015 at 00:00
The Director of National Parks can over ride the decision if she feels necessary, She also sits on the board.
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Follow Up By: Steve in Kakadu - Sunday, Nov 01, 2015 at 00:12

Sunday, Nov 01, 2015 at 00:12
OH and by the way, when you stand on the top, you only get a 360 degree view of that's right nothing.
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Follow Up By: Member - PhilD_NT - Sunday, Nov 01, 2015 at 10:03

Sunday, Nov 01, 2015 at 10:03
You've got your head stuck up your Kakadu too far. Some of us can appreciate those distant views and don't require a jungle to see nature. And OH by the way, when I was up there I distinctly remember seeing something called the Olgas (In those days) and thought that view alone was worth the climb.
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Reply By: Michael H9 - Sunday, Nov 01, 2015 at 09:52

Sunday, Nov 01, 2015 at 09:52
Cutting the chains is an act of vandalism that will put someone's life at risk. I've scrambled up and down various religious "sacred sites" all over the world. Like all religions, they are happy to let you do it if you give them money. Sacred sites are only sacred to members of the religion, to anyone else they are just a site. People should be free to have their particular religious taboos, just not free to impose them on others. Religious taboos make no sense. A climber on Uluru, may upset an indigenous person in the same way that my wife walking down the street without a head scarf might upset a muslim man. If I don't give a rats about the muslim man's feelings, then why should I where the indigenous person is concerned? I'm happy to respect a person's feelings in matters that may make sense, but that definitely excludes religious claptrap.

And don't bring up the "come into my home or on my land" argument. It doesn't wash. Uluru is a National Park open to the public where you pay entry fees. The Anangu people lease it back to the Australian people. To my knowledge there is no requirement in the lease to convert to "Dreaming" in the arrangement. You may think I'm anti indigenous ownership? I certainly am not. Good on them, but I do not want to discriminate against them by saying I will put up with their religious crap while not putting up with everyone else's. Equality sometimes has tough consequences.
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Reply By: Member - lyndon NT - Sunday, Nov 01, 2015 at 22:21

Sunday, Nov 01, 2015 at 22:21
More idiots! Climbing the rock is a great experience. The view you get of the rock itself is amazing, like a giant piece carved pottery. Highly recommend to anyone fit enough.

Cheers

Lyndon
Now is the only time you own
Decide now what you will,
Place faith not in tomorrow
For the clock may then be still

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