GREY WATER COLLECTION

Broodie H3
I would have thought one tank, say about 40-60 liters for grey water would be enough.
This subject seems to be forever being debated, what is self containment??, is it have your own shower and toilet, or is it the above plus grey water containment, it seems to vary from place to place.
Take WikiCamps, on some camp sites they say you have to be self contained, so i rang a local council who looks after a campsite which Wiki states you have to be self contained, the answer was provided you have your own shower and loo, not a problem, got the same answer from another council.
My answer to grey water may be different to others, it goes on the ground, but if unable to do that, then into a bucket, then tip that around the base of a tree.
baz

Brodie, there has been a concerted campaign by the caravan park owners groups to have the state governments and councils to close down much of the free camping anywhere near towns and along the highway major routes. The CMCA firstly on its own and later via MoTOURing Australia has been campaigning against the parks lobby.

One of the claims made by the parks lobby is the state that free campers have been leaving the free camp sites. CMCA and MoTOURing Australia have managed to keep quite a few free camps alive by proposing the Leave No Trace (LNT) Program for camp sites near towns. The local councils have managed to keep sites open and also open new ones by insisting that campers using them have been self contained and leave no trace. (Forbes and Cooktown councils are notable for their being to be able to maintain free camping for us.) When you open the "Leave No Trace (LNT) Program" link there are three further links at the bottom of the page that will help you understand the Leave No Trace scheme.

There are a number of towns that joined the RV Friendly program that has been instigated by the CMCA. Part of the qualification to join this scheme is "Provision of short term, low cost overnight parking (24/48 hours) for self-contained RVs, as close as possible to the CBD." In some towns the short term camping is dependent on campers being self contained so to fully participate you will need grey water tanks to access the facilities in some towns.

Brodie, you will not find any legislation "for having to collect your grey water from your van while camped in the bush" or anywhere else. This whole thing is an initiative from campers to prevent loosing access to many camping spots. Most of these are close to the populated areas but there are some like a number of camp spots beside the highway between Morven and Barcaldine. None of the state national park bodies to my knowledge require self containment at this stage but there is a possibility they will in the future.

The choice is an individual one whether you wish to access the sites that require grey water tanks or not. However their number is on the rise so I suggest that those who wish to participate in freedom camping and are purchasing new vans seriously consider fitting grey water tank/s. This will future proof your van.


This reply above has been peppered with superfluous annoying links inserted by the forum programme. The three I have inserted to explain my posting are:
MoTOURing Australia
Leave No Trace (LNT) Program
RV Friendly program

Caravanners and campers should all make themselves aware of grey water etiquette.
There are no hard-and-fast laws across Australia for grey water dumping.
Each Shire often has slightly different regulations and advice.
The general recommendations are that no grey water should be dumped within 100M of waterways, and no dumping of any grey water is allowed within the boundaries of national parks.
It is also recommended that any grey water dumped be covered over, to bury any solids.

However, the following factors need to be considered when dumping waste water of any kind.

1. In suburban areas, it has not been legal to dump grey water from showers and laundries onto your garden for many years.
Grey water in suburban residential areas is treated the same as "black water" (i.e. sewage).
The reasons for this are simple. Grey water often contains high levels of phosphates and nitrates from detergents, as well as other undesirable chemicals that pose environmental problems. Phosphate and Nitrate build-up causes algal blooms (blue-green algae) in waterways.
Large population densities rapidly create problems when untreated waste water is dumped in excessive quantities.

As you can understand, one or two people dumping grey water in an isolated area isn't a problem.
200 campers all regularly dumping grey water on a riverbank, IS a problem.

2. You need to assess the soil type, distance from the nearest waterway, the amount of grey water dumping (yours as well as others), and the content of your grey water - before you make the decision to dump.
In an isolated arid area, with clayey soils, modest levels of grey water dumping isn't going to pose a threat to anyone or any environment.
In a heavily populated area, with sandy soils and numerous waterways, dumping grey water is going to eventually have a major cumulative effect on the environment.

3. The content of your grey water is important. Fats and greases are highly undesirable in the environment and should not be dumped. Shower water with low levels of detergents will see the degradation of detergents over a period of time - but if it can wash into waterways with the first shower of rain, you need to rethink the grey water dumping.

Here's an article on the nitrates and phosphorus buildup that affects the Swan and Canning Rivers, with particular emphasis on the permeability of Perths sandy and limestone coastal plain region.
It is a rivers-specific article, but the excess-nutrient buildup process applies to all waterways, and we all need to take steps to reduce our adverse footprint on the environment.
Unfortunately, that adverse footprint is being exacerbated by serious numbers of campers and travellers in todays world.

Swan and Canning Rivers science

Cheers, Ron.

I lived for many years on a 2ha block where council regulation made me collect grey water in a tank and then a submersable pump was used to spray the water through a sprinkler onto the ground.

This is how most councils deal with grey water. While I accept there are some places that are inappropriate such as at the kerb in a town it should be expected that we bring and shed water on grass and trees nearby to help the vegetation.

Any other restrictions are more about some groups trying to get elitist access to areas at others expense. i haven't seen too many tents or camper trailers with grey water tanks and yet surely we are not going to ban them from camping in the one of the driest continents on earth.

Polution by toilet paper across the country side is a whole new other issue......

Not sure if a myth or not but have heard that collecting grey water in a bucket is not good enough

A grey water tank has to be plumbed into the system

Not sure where you then dump it afterwards, I suppose open it up as you are driving out :).
Richard

Hi,
I am currently at the CMCA rally at Albany WA.
The council has allowed us to let the grey water to run onto the grass. But have insisted that NO solids [IE, food particles etc] go on the ground.
CMCA supplied all of us with socks to be fitted to the outlet of our hose to catch any solids.
As there are showers etc on the site there is not a great amount of grey water.

PeterH

The short answer is that the owner/controller of any piece of land where camping is permitted is entitled to impose whatever rules/restrictions that they wish.
Each authority is likely to decide on a different answer, for whatever reasons.
If anyone does not like those rules/restrictions, they should go somewhere else.

Cheers,
Peter

My Blog "What does "Self Contained Only" really mean?" and the links therein cover the variances Broodie.

In reality, unless it is in a populated area, close to a water source, or somewhere where a high turnover of campers would create a muddy mess on the ground, there are not all that many places in Australia that you cannot find somewhere suitable in walking distance to dispose of your grey water. Many designated 'self contained only' campsites in towns have a dump point on site.

As Peter_n_Margaret have replied, comply with what ever is set for that area. Anyone who cannot comply can easily go somewhere else.

hi all
Do you want to walk in flowing grey water do you want walk in black water along the WA coast people do there busness on the ground and leave brown butterflies all over the ground then they wash there plates under the running water of the tanks ment for stock
I travel with a 100 litre grey water tank and 2 cassette containing 17 litre each so you will not walk in my grey water or my black water
In some reports on waste water they have reported that kitchen grey water should be classified as Black water I cannot remember the name but just google grey water
Terry

There wouldn't be any local government building regulation that will allow a builder/plumber to release the grey water (kitchen, laundry, bathroom) onto the ground. Grey water is full of all sort of poisons and contaminants that would enter rivers and creeks and eventually end up in lakes or the sea.
Go and ask ANY council if you can run all your household grey water onto the ground and wait for their reaction.
Caravan/Motorhome grey water is no different.
There are many who often run their household washing machine waste out onto the lawn, and it promotes a lovely carpet of green grass in dry times. However the chemical residue remains and rains will take it to contaminate some river or creek.

This scientific review of grey water characteristics may be of interest to some forum members.

Given the drought-affected state of much of the inland at the moment, I'd be a bit worried about carrying grey water.

There's a good chance you'll be held up by the locals and have it all stolen.