Merging at road works

Submitted: Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 13:13
ThreadID: 131023 Views:2999 Replies:18 FollowUps:55
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What do you do when you are on a 2 lane freeway and in front there is 1 lane closed.
Do you more straight into the 1 open lane, even if its a half a k back. Or do you remain in the lane that is closing and merge just before the blockage? This has caused a lot of discussion where I work. I know the legal side of it, but what do you do?

Wato
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Reply By: The Explorer - Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 13:41

Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 13:41
Hi

Ideally I would stay in the lane, maintain speed limit (if possible) and merge as lane disappears. I have seen people stopped in merge lanes holding up traffic several hundred meters before it actually merges (i.e. with a free lane in front of them). No idea why...must be scared or something. .. why not keep driving and merge..has me baffled.

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Thursday, Dec 03, 2015 at 08:34

Thursday, Dec 03, 2015 at 08:34
Yep. Same here. We just gradually without racing, go close to the "merge" and merge without pushing, shoving etc. Works every time.

So easy, simple and logical.

I usually wave to the one who makes room and merges with us and will let others merge as well.

Phil
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Reply By: The Landy - Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 13:43

Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 13:43
Drive to the prevailing conditions, (potentially) slow down, merge in an orderly fashion, and above all else use common sense.

I drive the M2 freeway in Sydney every day and the road requires merges at various points, if this was done in an orderly fashion with all giving consideration to the “bigger picture” the traffic would flow more freely, getting everyone to their destination far quicker without the painful stop and start crawl...

But because there are those who need to “duck and weave” to ensure they “beat everyone else” and retain "pole position" the traffic usually ends up in a shambles…

And if that isn’t bad enough, guess what – you get to do it all over again on the way home

So, on the situation you outline…personally I don't think it matters why the merge is ocurring (roadworks or whatever)...

“Drive to the prevailing conditions, (potentially) slow down, merge in an orderly fashion, and above all else use common sense”.

Phew…rant over (until I hit the M2 later today).

Cheers, Baz – The Landy
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Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 10:47

Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 10:47
Reminds me of the Pacific Hwy north of Sydney before the dual carriageway went all the way up. Someone on the RTA finally cottoned on to the fact that the overtaking lanes were causing the traffic jams in peak times, so they simply blocked off or closed the ovetaking lanes. It was amazing how much smoother the traffic flowed when merging wasn't in the picture. All the overtaking lane achieved was a merging bottle-neck.
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Reply By: Bobjl - Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 16:03

Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 16:03
If say there were three or four lanes and it became one or two and with plenty of warning of lane closure, then if you immediately cross to those open lanes, then based on my own experience [and I suspect yours], almost certainly the following traffic will continue up the empty lane/s. This may have a signifcant delaying affect. I have noted when towing my big rig that if I go too early, then in extreme conditions I fall back in the queue lots. My expectation of fellow drivers is that they adopt the "One for One rule'' and every alternate vehicle gets to merge. Like most of us, I detest late runners that scream up the closing lane and bully their way in at last moment, often causing some angst. So if everyone remains reasonably in the lane they are in and merge sensibly being courteous but not overly, then traffic flow may continue without major stoppages.
Bob
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Follow Up By: Member - silkwood - Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 13:33

Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 13:33
You've just contradicted yourself. You advocate "one for one" merging but then complain about those who "bully their way in at the last moment". If the correct method of zip merging at the point of convergence is adhered to, there is not a "further up the closing lane".

By having more than one merge point (usually much further back from the convergence point) you are, by mathematical definition, creating a hindrance and unnecessarily slowing the traffic flow.
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Follow Up By: Member - Andrew & Jen - Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 15:38

Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 15:38
Silkwood

Firstly, in 99% of situations, the rate of flow past the obstruction is the determining factor for the amount of overall delay experienced by motorists, not where or how many merge points are used.

There seem to be 2 quite distinct groups regarding this discussion, namely
- those who join the queue near or at the tail end, thus retaining the pre-existing order of vehicles (equity is important for this group) and
- those that go as far as practical in the "closed lane" and then try to merge (minimising their own delay is important for this group, although they try to rationalise it by referring to "less delay")

The 2 groups will never agree, despite what ever argument is used, because it is a difference in values that is dividing them.

Cheers
Andrew
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Reply By: Geobserver - Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 16:27

Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 16:27
Merge at the point of the lane closure; one in and one out. It only takes a few drivers that merge too early (and most stop the traffic behind doing so) to stuff it up for everyone.
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 18:02

Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 18:02
Noting that vehicles in the continuing lane have right away and vehicles in the ending lane have to give way to vehicles in the continuing lane.
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 18:20

Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 18:20
Hi

My understanding was that the car most in front at the merge point had right of way - doesn't matter what lane you are in. Typically you can see this in advance and can plan accordingly - pretty easy - keeps traffic flowing in both lanes as is the plan (though don't see it working as such very often).

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 19:19

Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 19:19
If both lanes end and go into one, then yes (or the sign says "form one lane) but where only one lane is ending then no - if you are in that lane you have to give way to vehicles in the continuing lane.
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 19:25

Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 19:25
Well that's not merging in that case, its a very sharp angled T junction and should have a Give Way sign in place :)

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 19:48

Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 19:48
garrycol is correct, same as at traffic lights and everyone has to duck down the left lane , only to push in 100M further up.

If the left lane has broken lines, forcing you to cross them to merge, you are legally obliged to give way....but most don't.

Would be the same as road works, but you'd be hard pressed to see a copper there to book anyone !!
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Follow Up By: Geobserver - Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 20:03

Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 20:03
As I say to my elderly mother who is still driving - accelerate to the speed of the traffic, indicate early and JUST GO! 'Most' drivers with any sense of road manners will appreciate it and let you in regardless of who technically has right of way. The other scenario is that she brakes and causes chaos for the traffic behind her.
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 20:16

Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 20:16
"but you'd be hard pressed to see a copper there to book anyone !!"

In busy situations that would cause even more mayhem with offending drivers being instructed to slow down, stop, cross lanes, take their eyes off the road etc so they can be booked - more dangerous than the offense they are being booked for. Possibly why you dont see any "coppers" doing it that often.

Cheers
Greg
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Reply By: Bushranger1 - Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 16:34

Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 16:34
I like the signs in New Zealand that say "Merge like a Zipper" & show a large picture of alternate cars merging.
Wouldn't it be nice if everyone were patient & do it courteously like this? Unfortunately there are a select few that think they are more important than everyone else on the road & insist in queue jumping.

Cheers
Stu
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Reply By: Member - Warren H - Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 16:40

Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 16:40
I always move into the open lane as early as possible. My aim is to get over early before gaps start closing to avoid grief and be courteous to those merging. It's unusual for an orderly zipper merge to occur under these circumstances. Some times it will be barriered to resemble a tapered merging lane and these work best sometimes even getting an orderly zipper merge. However, often the lane is just blocked with a line of cars banked up on the closed lane with varying degrees of courtesy for merging vehicles. Nowadays the roads are marked as roadworks and are mostly signposted to 20 or 40 km/h anyway.
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Follow Up By: Member - silkwood - Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 13:34

Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 13:34
Then you are (unwittingly) part of the problem.
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 15:39

Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 15:39
This in effect stuffs up the road traffic controllers plan for everyone to merge at a place that he or the police etc select.

Just go to where they want you to merge. Not where "you" think that it is better.

Phil
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Follow Up By: Member - Warren H - Sunday, Dec 27, 2015 at 11:39

Sunday, Dec 27, 2015 at 11:39
There's a plan when the lane just ends, no slip lane of cones, no traffic control, and at the weekend no workers?
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Sunday, Dec 27, 2015 at 15:54

Sunday, Dec 27, 2015 at 15:54
Bloody hell!! Does that mean that people have to use their brains. God forbid.

Work it out mate.
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Follow Up By: Member - Warren H - Sunday, Dec 27, 2015 at 18:48

Sunday, Dec 27, 2015 at 18:48
Worked it out long ago mate, courtesy first.
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Follow Up By: Slow one - Sunday, Dec 27, 2015 at 19:41

Sunday, Dec 27, 2015 at 19:41
Bloody hell! Where did we get the traffic controller from, if they have traffic controller they don't care where you merge as long as it is a single line of traffic through the roadworks.
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Sunday, Dec 27, 2015 at 20:08

Sunday, Dec 27, 2015 at 20:08
Slow one: The traffic controller is the person, or persons, who set up the signs and devices to get us to merge. I thought that even you could work that one out!!!!

Next time why don't those who follow the merge NOW gotta save my place team, stop and ask the police or the traffic controller staff who set up the merge, what they think. I would love to hear an honest report of what they said. Not an interpretation or jouyrnalistic understanding of what they said. That is, if you are game to repeat it without change.

I wonder if what you printed Slow one, is accurate. I doubt it. I bet there are procedures and guidelines to adhere to and that they would want and prefer the traffic to follow the instructions that they have put in place. Not necessarily merge further back where the merging could block traffic lights etc etc etc. Nah --- Merge where they want you to merge, at the signs, and not where you think you should "so that you don't lose your place".

I will always let the one in front of me in. One on one is fair and simple.

This topic has as usual gone to the dogs.

Phil

PS Should have left the computer turned off.
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Follow Up By: Slow one - Monday, Dec 28, 2015 at 04:30

Monday, Dec 28, 2015 at 04:30
The reason it has gone to the dogs is because of people who insult others and decide their opinion is is God given.

AJ. Keep your insults to yourself.
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Reply By: Member - mark D18 - Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 17:29

Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 17:29
I agree with Greg , gradually merge as the lane is ending , nothing more annoying than the panicked early merger holding up traffic when more cars could easily get in front.

Cheers
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Reply By: pop2jocem - Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 17:40

Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 17:40
Ahh merging, yes well here on the west coast it is more like a scramble than a merge. It's basiclly a test of nerve, of will power, of who's got the biggest car.

It's not by coincedence that we have the SAS barracks here.Their motto "Who dares wins" sort of explains it all.

Merging is reserved for the board room...lol


(;=))

Cheers
Pop
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Reply By: Michael H9 - Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 18:36

Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 18:36
The traffic jam is less if you merge nearer to the obstacle. Early mergers do make the whole process slower. I have noted many times that the ending lane is quicker than the continuing lane because the ending lane is always getting shorter and the continuing lane is getting longer, especially due to early mergers. I rarely see piggish attitudes about letting people in, it really should be a non event but I reckon some early mergers get resentfull that everyone else didn't merge early as well. Then they try and hold people out thinking they are queue jumpers. The whole process would be quicker and more civilised if everyone just merged at the obstacle. Then nobody would get the queue jumper label.
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Reply By: Crusier 91 - Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 18:36

Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 18:36
Abide by the road rules.

Two lanes going the same way and one is emerging from the left.

If there are broken lines or the line has stopped where the lanes commence the merge, the left hand driver has righter way into the right hand land.

If the broken line continues all the way through then the right hand lane has the right way.

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Follow Up By: AlanTH - Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 19:45

Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 19:45
All it requires is courtesy towards other drivers virtually totally lacking in WA. Whether some merge early and others leave it to the last few yards in their desire to get to the front before others shouldn't make a lot of difference, but if they all leave it to the last metre then holdups will occur.
Stop thinking about you being in front so it's your right of way, drive with others in mind including indicating your intentions.
AlanH.
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 19:56

Wednesday, Dec 02, 2015 at 19:56
Can be a bit of a grey area......there are sometimes flashing signs saying merge, then you merge, and there is always someone ripping up the left lane at a fast rate of knots to jump ahead of a lot of cars....and legally they have to give way to the thru lane, but they will force their way in...or someone will let them in....but that is just the ignorant and uncourteous people we have now !!
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Thursday, Dec 03, 2015 at 00:59

Thursday, Dec 03, 2015 at 00:59
Hi

I don't see the difference between merging "early" (if you want to and dont slow other traffic to achieve your aim) or proceeding further down the lane and then merging, even to the end - that's what the lanes there for..surely, if not they should make the merging lane shorter :)

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Thursday, Dec 03, 2015 at 09:40

Thursday, Dec 03, 2015 at 09:40
It's roadworks.....the merging lane happens when the sign says so...

Not hard to work out you are a dork when everyone is in the through lane, and the merging lane is empty, and you overtake 100 people and expect to be let in !!

Commonsense doesn't happen a lot these days......it's all about me ??

I have seen both lanes stopped....the left lane is merging ahead somewhere....and some tool is overtaking on the far left in the breakdown lane..what the ??
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Thursday, Dec 03, 2015 at 09:59

Thursday, Dec 03, 2015 at 09:59
The lane is there to be used....if you want to merge early, merge early, Dont see any reason to get upset about someone who was behind you choosing to merge at a point in front of you. Sounds more like a psychological issue for some than a road rule issue.

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: Gronk - Thursday, Dec 03, 2015 at 20:10

Thursday, Dec 03, 2015 at 20:10
It's called being a courteous road user....

If everyone else has merged and someone wants to gain those all important 5 or 10 or 20 spots, then even though they do expect it, they can't be surprised when no one will let them in......and certainly not by me..

If you are one of those people who do this and can't see anything wrong with it, then I can't change your strange mindset ?
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Thursday, Dec 03, 2015 at 20:39

Thursday, Dec 03, 2015 at 20:39
Still dont get what you are on about. I will just drive down the lane and merge where I think appropriate and in a courteous manner. There is no road rule that requires me or anyone else to stay behind the car in which Gronk is sitting (or any other car that merges before I do).

If you wish to merge at a certain point feel free but dont expect everyone else to slow down and try and squeeze in behind you...its not the Conga :)

If a driver chooses to carry out some road rage behavior (blocking drivers legitimately merging) because they have been overtaken I repeat my previous comment that a psychological issue may be at play here.


Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: fredwho - Friday, Dec 04, 2015 at 12:41

Friday, Dec 04, 2015 at 12:41
Merging at road works:
- Id say merge if you can safely when you see the sign as the merge will not be far off

Merging in general:
- I used to get anal about preserving car order even though everyone is in the through traffic lane and the merging lane was near empty.

That was until I was stuck waiting at an intersection to get thru an intersection for quite a few light changes. The left lane merged 500m thru the intersection. There was next to no one in that left merging lane at the lights. If people had used both lanes, twice the number of people would have got through the intersection for each change of lights instead of the through lane backed up for miles because people feel they wont be let in on the other side of the lights.

So I say now, use both lanes, you are helping the traffic to flow more smoothly / quickly and consider this when you prevent people merging.

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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Friday, Dec 04, 2015 at 14:39

Friday, Dec 04, 2015 at 14:39
Ah the complexities of merging. Anyone would think that an engineering degree is need to work it out.

Just use some damned common sense, ie let the one in front go. Regardless of which lane is disappearing. Who cares which lane you are in. Just take your turn and let the one in front of you go before you.

Phil
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Friday, Dec 04, 2015 at 17:00

Friday, Dec 04, 2015 at 17:00
If a driver chooses to carry out some road rage behavior (blocking drivers legitimately merging) because they have been overtaken I repeat my previous comment that a psychological issue may be at play here.

The trouble is, in 90% of cases, there is no legitimate merging.....the merger has to give way..
If you chose to stay in the left lane just to gain spots, by the road rules, no one has to let you in..
No real difference to changing lanes.....you must indicate, and merge when safe to do so, and similar to roadworks etc, if the traffic is bumper to bumper, then you just have to wait.

Not real hard to understand.....everyone acts courteously and everyone gets along...
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Friday, Dec 04, 2015 at 17:20

Friday, Dec 04, 2015 at 17:20
"The trouble is, in 90% of cases, there is no legitimate merging.....the merger has to give way.."

That's right, Gronk, and it's left to common sense and common courtesy, both sadly lacking these days.

In the other 10% of cases where there is no merge line, there is a relevant Australia-wide rule and it's dead easy: The vehicle with part of itself in front of the other has right of way in a merge.

It forces the NZ zipper effect.

Melbourne has a lot of those in suburban streets and it works well.

Cheers
FrankP

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Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Sunday, Dec 06, 2015 at 10:16

Sunday, Dec 06, 2015 at 10:16
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Sunday, Dec 06, 2015 at 11:24

Sunday, Dec 06, 2015 at 11:24
A bit OT Scott. But it can happen. Locals who know the area will line up to turn right. A "visitor", usually with interstate number plate can get caught by continuing on until they realise they have to turn right also.

Just let him merge and get on with your own life.

Phil
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Follow Up By: Member - silkwood - Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 15:09

Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 15:09
The idea that the person merging has to give way is not only incorrect, it goes against common sense AND courtesy. A person merging into a lane over a broken line (as is the case in the diagram by Scott) does indeed have to give way, though even here, courtesy would lead to allowing access (as pointed out by Phil). Holier than thou efforts to enforce the law to the letter are ridiculous.

If a lane is temporarily (legally) closed, either through roadworks or other, the lane now becomes a merge lane and traffic gives way to the vehicle in front (thus creating the classic "zip" merge). People thinking others are "pushing in" because they go to the merge point- rather than some arbitrary point they have decided makes them feel comfortable- are a big part of the problem and cause the restriction to be far more onerous than it need be. People who get annoyed and refuse to let others merge are not only breaking the law, they are being damned idiots.

This is the case in NSW, Vic and SA. I am not sure about other states but I can't imagine it would be any different (maybe QLD, lots of things are done a little differently there!). ;-)
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Reply By: The Bantam - Friday, Dec 04, 2015 at 23:05

Friday, Dec 04, 2015 at 23:05
I find it interesting how the behaviour varies .......... the further you are from capitol cities and higher priced suburbs the more civilised the merging will be.

Likewise the further you are from peak times the more civilised things will be.

There will always be later mergers ...... those will be the people who think they are more important and their time is more vlauable than everybody else ........ very often they will be those driving fancy cars.

It must be realised that unless there is specific signage or linemarking that says otherwise, the lane that ends is required to give way to the continuing lane ...... as such in most cases that means it is wise and courtious to merge early ....... because if you don't you will be relying someone to be less arogant than you ..... or not being offended by your thinking that there is nothing wrong with driving past 5, 10 or 20 other drivers who have done the courtous thing.

What is most significant ...... there IS NO public discussion or information on this matter from the various roads regulators ........ thus there IS NO general public understanding about what is right or wrong.

What is also significant ...... there seems to be a polocy of not activly managing merges or other road blockages for efficient and safe traific flow.

The use of some sort of instructive signs appropriate for the situation would make everybodies life better signs like.
"Lanes continue merge when directed" ...... followed by " merge now, move in turn"
or
"Left lane ends, merge now, give way to continuing traffic"

We simply can not relay on people to know the road rules any more ....... because a large proportion just aren't interested ....... so many plainly don't know even simple rules and meanings ..... unfortunatly the governments at all levels seem uninteresed in informing the public.

cheers
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Follow Up By: AlanTH - Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 12:42

Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 12:42
Had the classic lane closed experience yesterday. Turning left onto a dual carriageway was confronted with "Lane ends" signs and temporary 40kay speed limit. Had approx. 150 mtrs to merge right.
I travel slowly along indicating my intentions and driver in right hand lane holds back to let me in so I give a wave of thanks. Car behind me didn't want to use the same gap and tried to push past me on the left with less than 30mtrs in which to merge right. I blocked his action quite deliberately as everyone else was acting in a civilised manner so why shouldn't he?
Nothing hard about a bit of consideration to others and I really don't see the need for signs everywhere telling drivers how to merge or show some good ol' common sense and courtesy.
AlanTH


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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 13:59

Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 13:59
Merge at any point you like , in a courteous and polite manner. If there are people out there who's feelings get hurt because they have been overtaken then that's a bit unfortunate - especially when they then resort to very discourteous/road rage behavior justified by applying a whole heap of made up assumptions ((i.e.apparently arrogant, discourteous, rude, in a hurry, and generally in a "flash" car (whatever that is)) not necessarily true about the driver they then target - laughable.

I am sure there are people as you describe out there but I'm not sure you can pick them just because they chose not to merge behind you....and then to adopt a revenge attitude is a bit hypocritical and somewhat childish.

Do you guys also block drivers overtaking you on normal dual lanes for the same reasons? I hope not.

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 14:28

Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 14:28
Remember ........ if you are in the lane that ends the law states, you have to give way to the lane that continues ........ if you are upset because someone will not let you in ...... if you try and barge in because you merge late ....... you are a hypocrite.

The law states clearly that you must give way to the continuing lane ....if you are happy to sit there while the whole line of following traffic including all those who have previouly merged passes you ....... by all means merge late

If you ever once try and stick you nose infront of someone else and think they are doing anything wrong by not letting you in ...... you are a hypocrite.

If you deliberately merge late and rely on some soft hearted sucker letting you in at the last minute..... you are a hypocrite.

The person who does not let you in, is the one obeying the law.... you must give way to the continuing line of traffic.

The person that tries to merge late, then expects someone to let them in, is the one who has the wrong attitude, is fundamentally discourtious and is on the wrong side of the law.

I am sick to the back teeth of people driving with the expectation that others should "let them in" and being upset when they don't.

This is not just merging lanes at roadworks ........ this is all over the place ........ this is people habitually expecting not to rightfully give way.

This is people thinking they are more important than everybody else and that their time is more valiable than everybody else. ......

I do a lot of KM and I see this every day.

cheers

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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 14:44

Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 14:44
Was just indicating that if you merge in a courteous and polite manner I dont see how it matters if its "early" or "late" (as defined by the vigilante road gods). Of course if you merge in a discourteous manner (at any point) then that is wrong - I never said I agreed with that behavior - you are just putting words in my mouth in an attempt to substantiate your argument.

It simply seems to me that some people just dont like being overtaken after they have made a call to merge at a certain point - any one, for any reason, who then overtakes them has committed a heinous crime for which they must be punished - GET OVER IT. It doesn't matter.

I personally could not care less who overtakes me after I merge and will let any one merge in (subject to conditions allowing) no matter how flash their car is or isn't, even if they have at some point got in front of me - couldn't care less.

Don't worry be happy.

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 15:06

Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 15:06
The problem is that most late mergers do so in a discourtious manner.
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 15:22

Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 15:22
From where have you acquired these statistics or is it just a guess based on observations ?

I have seen "early mergers" exhibit dubious manners and dangerous driving behavior. Being an "early merger" doesn't necessarily make you the best driver in the world.

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 17:50

Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 17:50
The early merger who, has the right of way and is sick to death of the agressive late merger, who relies on being more agressive than everybody else ... who could have easily merged earlier, but as a matter of choice and habit drives past 5, 10 or 20 people who have already and politely merged and exerts the right of way that they don't have to force their way in and merge late.

The only way an already merged driver has the oportunity to dispaly dubious manners and dangerous driving behaviour is in response to a late merger who agressivly forces their way into the traffic stream.

Remember the continuing lane has the legal right of way.

Actually I seem to have had less problems with late mergers in one of my vehicles since it aquired a ding in the passenger door from a gate that swung shut in the wind.

I've watched these pricks. drive down the line and pass clear, given, easy opportunities to merge, only to agressivley barge in 1, 2, 3 or more cars further down. ...... when someone gives em a hard time over it swear, make rude signs and get upset as if they have some sort of right to do so.


cheers

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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 19:07

Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 19:07
Hilarious - lighten up - if the worst thing in your life you have to deal with is someone overtaking you at a merge point in a car you should be laughing.

Cheers
Greg

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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Sunday, Dec 06, 2015 at 00:07

Sunday, Dec 06, 2015 at 00:07
Its not funny at all ...... its not about being over taken, it is the discourtesy and the barging and the false asumption that the late merger has some sort of right ......... and it is not just at merges this expectation of right of way when not entitled.


Either we have road rules or we don't
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Follow Up By: Member - silkwood - Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 15:16

Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 15:16
Bantam, you are not only wrong you are a major part of the problem. Further, if the agressive attitude you take here translates onto the road I'd predict you would also be a dnager.

If a lane is tempraril;y (legally) blocked and traffic is diverted into one lane, the merge becomes a LEGAL merge lane (the same as if there were no lines) and the vehicle in front has right of way.

Don;t confuse general regulations with amended rule variations subject to situation.
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Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 13:20

Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 13:20
Use common sense, and drive to the conditions??????
AnswerID: 593411

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 14:34

Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 14:34
Hairy mate common sence is on short supply these days and in many places is replaced by self interest ........ if you live and drive in the North and West this will not be as much of a problem.

I live and work out of Brisbane ..... I can tell you the further away from the capitol I get the more relaxed the whole driving experience is.

North of Gympie and west of Toowomba this would hardly be a matter for comment ... especially out side of school holiday periods.

cheers

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Reply By: The Bantam - Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 15:04

Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 15:04
Don't know what it was like in other states ....... but 20 years ago up here in QLD, this would hardly have been a matter for discussion.
If you didn't merge early .... no bugger was "letting you in", not even that mild little old lady.

Its only since "expactations of courtesy" have come in and the average household is driving 4wds and SUVs and feeling bulletproof has this become a problem.
Its specifically a problem with women, who are driving bigger vehicles and got accustomed to people getting out of their way

In the past "there was always one", doing the wrong thing.

But now ..... anytime there is a major merge, there are multiple people failing to merge early. ..... then fairly agressivly pushing their way in .... AND getting upset when others resit their arrogant ways.

The issue is not which is right ...... but that there is a discussion about this at all.

cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Warren H - Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 16:47

Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 16:47
Yeah, reckon it must have been that first 25 y of driving in Qld that formed the merge early behaviour. Mind you Canberra drivers aren't exactly courteous when you want to change lanes, more likely to speed up and try to close the gap and then there's those 'safe' drivers who don't ever drive fast and try to merge onto the freeway at 50kph, get spooked and stop in the merging lane.
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 21:22

Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 21:22
Oh dear ..previously

“very often they will be those driving fancy cars”

and above..

"Its specifically a problem with women"

Don't think I need to say any more

Some advice here You Can Control Road Rage

Main advice that stood out to me was "Don't take it personally. Be polite and courteous, even if the other driver isn't."

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Reply By: Michael H9 - Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 21:38

Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 21:38
Some of the answers on this thread just reconfirm my opinion that Australian drivers are rubbish. Purposely blocking people out is worse than any other behaviour mentioned. If you do that then take heart that you are the pig. Whatever you think is going on in the head of the other driver is probably wrong (yes, even if it's a city slicker in a fancy pants car), and you are just causing trouble by aggravating him. Talking about who has right of way is also a load of bollocks. If it wasn't then nobody would get out of the merging lane...."too bad buddy, us smarty bums already in through lane have right of way, you should have merged 20 kilometres back down the road." Here's a rule, if a car is at all in front of you and he has nowhere to go, then let him in. You're a better person for it.
AnswerID: 593428

Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 21:46

Saturday, Dec 05, 2015 at 21:46
Best post in this thread.
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Sunday, Dec 06, 2015 at 11:50

Sunday, Dec 06, 2015 at 11:50
You are right Michael and Frank.

I like the comment; "drive to the conditions". For Gods sake, next we will be told to slow down and smell the roses! I know --- just pull over and boil the billy. How's that.

Phil
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Reply By: The Landy - Sunday, Dec 06, 2015 at 13:11

Sunday, Dec 06, 2015 at 13:11
The funny thing is that those who refuse to let other drivers in must find themselves in the same position from time to time - my question is they they just cop it, or do they become one of those who force their way into the traffic?

All a bit of a dilemma really.

Personally I am more than happy to have all the aggressive drivers in front of me rather than behind me...and don't concern myself about "having to let someone in" regardless of how they arrived at that point - but do note that if everyone merged sensibly there would be far less stopping and starting on our major roads.

But this thread is far less about "merging" than it is about a statement on the decline of human behaviour and the "I am far more important than you trend" prevalent these days...


Cheers, Baz - The Landy
AnswerID: 593456

Follow Up By: Slow one - Sunday, Dec 06, 2015 at 17:34

Sunday, Dec 06, 2015 at 17:34
Baz, we have a 600 metre long divided 60 kph road near us that is between two single lane bridges. A few will go into the right lane and maybe get in front of one or two cars. That is when the braking starts, as others have to allow more room for the merging overtakers. If they just chilled and remained where they were in the line, the traffic would just seamlessly flow along.

It is a pity many Aussies seem aggressive in their driving style and cause others grief.

I guess such is life.
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Follow Up By: Member - silkwood - Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 15:22

Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 15:22
Slow One, that doesn't sound like a case of poor behaviour (though it probably engenders it). Seems to be more a case of poor road design. It's amazing how many older traffic engineers believed the more lanes you could cram in, the better the traffic flow.
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Follow Up By: Slow one - Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 15:57

Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 15:57
No, it is a case of no money because we don't live in south east qld. The road has been like that for over 25 years waiting of the construction of 2 bridges. The locals know the problem but some choose to want to race people to get 1 or 2 cars ahead and then cause the braking problem that slows all the traffic. Many exceed 80 kph just to achieve this, then they cut in and everyone has to stand on the brakes. Guess you would call them late mergers.

Came back from Townsville yesterday and there were 6 vehicles that caused the same thing on the 2 overtaking lanes near The Leap. Vehicles were doing 100 kph and both times these vehicles ran up the outside at high speed forcing others to brake at the end of the divided sections, starting a domino effect. Had another one do it to me at Alligator creek yesterday and 60K later he was right in front of me after playing zoom, zoom, zoom all the way.

Same as the ones that rush up the outside of a semi when it is time to merge near the end of the double lanes. They cause havoc and are just plain inconsiderate, impatient drivers who are happy to get one vehicle in front.

I am a merger that will slip across when there is a gap be it earlier late and if not merge in turn.

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Reply By: The Landy - Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 08:24

Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 08:24
Reading the Sydney Morning Herald (On Christmas Eve), in between coffee's, whilst I am supposed to be working, but waiting for beer o'clock...

I noticed this article and thought it appropriate for this thread!

Graceless - Behind The Wheel...

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
AnswerID: 594110

Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 09:56

Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 09:56
I read the same article over my Weeties and coffee, Baz, and thought exactly the same thing.

Cheers
FrankP

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Follow Up By: The Landy - Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 10:48

Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 10:48
Hey Frank...

About the article, or beer o'clock ;)

Cheers, Baz
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 11:09

Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 11:09
Well, I wasn't really thinking about beer at breakfast time, but a couple of hours have passed ....

Mmmm. I have some nice Belgian beers put aside for tomorrow. Do I need to test one - you know, to make sure it is suitable to serve to guests? :-)

Cheers, definitely Cheers
FrankP

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Reply By: TomH - Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 09:43

Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 09:43
A classic example of the "I must be first" mentality can be seen every afternoon on the Gateway outside the Nudgee servo There is a left hand lane which is to allow access to the servo but continues on for about 150m.. there are two through lanes outside it and every day the highway bandits roar up the L/H lane and push in, slowing everyone down and making things worse by the minute. Even B doubles do it.

Then when you get around the corner there is another merge lane coming out of the servo.

My solution is to end the first lane at the servo and make them merge earlier where the road is straight. Is a nightmare every day Normal time home from the city is 45 mins After 3 pm can be up to 90 mins.
Had another bottleneck when I drove buses At one small tight roundabout cars would roar up the L/H side of the bus only to have to merge immediately on exiting the roundabout I would end up 10 cars behind where I was going into it. R/H lane was straight through L/H had a left turn option.

As its legal for vehicles over 7.5m long to use both lanes I sat the bus on the middle line and stayed there Fixed the bandits. Got sick of complaints for being late on the same run every day after school with all the helicopter mums around.
AnswerID: 594113

Follow Up By: The Landy - Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 11:56

Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 11:56
Flying to Brisvegas this afternoon, and I know that intersection well. Hopefully it treats me well today!

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
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Reply By: Member - Andrew & Jen - Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 17:02

Thursday, Dec 24, 2015 at 17:02
Firstly, in 99% of cases, the rate of flow past the obstruction is the determining factor for the amount of overall delay experienced for a particular situation, not where or how many merge points are used.

There seem to be 2 quite distinct groups regarding this discussion, namely
- those who join the queue near or at the tail end, thus retaining the pre-existing order of vehicles (equity is important for this group) and
- those that go as far as practical in the "closed lane" and then try to merge (minimising their own delay is important for this group, although they try to rationalise it by referring to "less delay")

The 2 groups will never agree, despite what ever argument is used, because it is a difference in values that is dividing them.

Cheers
Andrew
AnswerID: 594129

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