DO WE REALLY NEED A 4WD

Hi all, I would appreciate your opinions on the following.

At present we have a bravo 4 ltr v6 5 speed manual with 120k on it. It is in nice order but only a 2wd hi rider version which has plenty of ground clearance but no LSD. It is fitted with 265/65 R15 A/T tyres. The fuel economy at 13 - 14 ltrs per hundred is not great but on the upside with camper on it doesn't go higher than 15 and still hauls ass up hills. Range with a 85 ltr tank is good for 600 Ks give or take.

We would like to visit some places that are " classified " as 4wd only for example Harry's Hut on the Noosa River and Poverty Pt on Bribie Is as an example. Both of these are sandy and rutted but mostly flat. Places like this not really interested in tackling beach driving or outback sand dunes at this point .

Here is my dilemma, the vehicle is kitted out for camping/towing with a dual battery system redarc isolator rear camera but has an odd sized tray @ 2000 mm. ( it's a spacecab ). I wish to put a canopy on it ( hard roof with canvas sides ) with roof racks for kayaks. For something like this 3 grand and up is ballpark. For that outlay I would want to keep it for few years at least as it would have to go with the car when I sell.( odd sized tray ) and do some additional wiring for 12 volt and fit aftermarket cruise control

I have been looking at the classifieds for a reasonable 4wd ute up to 20 g as an alternative but that price range is pretty much the same age with more ks as what I already have. As a side note I am 6'4 so the choices are reduced even more d22 navaras and hiluxes are a tight fit both in leg and shoulder room.

Would fitting a something like an E locker on the rear diff give the ability to take it on the rougher tracks ( similar to a RTV falcon ) ? As I mentioned earlier we are not interested in in tackling any serious stuff .

For the 10-11 g all up it is a great vehicle and I am very reluctant to move on to something that apart from offering 4wd is no big improvement in dynamics.

Cheers




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Reply By: Les - PK Ranger - Wednesday, Dec 30, 2015 at 23:22

Wednesday, Dec 30, 2015 at 23:22
Greg, that's a bit of a dilemma for sure.
You can get surprising places with a 2WD, and I'm sure an elocker in the back would be a great help on some tracks.
Sand you'd be a bit restricted though, and some of those islands up there have difficult inland sand tracks that might get you stuck.

I'd say from what you've said you could manage and pick and choose your drives, but I am really surprised you can't find a decent single or space cab 4x4 reasonably well set up (or go for a 'town 4wd' that you can get track ready yourself), maybe bide your time and I'm sure you'd find something for 20k or less that suits.

I got the Autron cruise fitted to my 2010 Ranger, and love it for flat country.
I turn it off when I hot hilly terrain, has typical cruise 'pull over' hills, and economy much better when I drive it manually in anything but flat highway driving.
AnswerID: 594336

Follow Up By: Member - MARIC - Wednesday, Dec 30, 2015 at 23:52

Wednesday, Dec 30, 2015 at 23:52
Can u fit a LSD to the vehicle, we had one in a holden V8 wagon in the 70's and it took us on beach tracks and we managed, now it's a LC79 (V8)
It is only when you see mosquito land on your testicles that you find another way to solve problems without violence

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Reply By: Hoyks - Wednesday, Dec 30, 2015 at 23:54

Wednesday, Dec 30, 2015 at 23:54
Yeah, what he said. For 99.5% of your driving, what you have is all you need. For most dirt roads a high clearance vehicle is all you need .

I went into Poverty Pt a month ago, just after rain and before the holidays. Most of that road you could do in 2WD with the tyres down as long as you weren't towing, but there are a few 100m sections where you will just dig a hole.
I did drive a fair bit of it in 2H as I forgot to flick it into 4H as I left the campsite, but a few km out of the camp ground I realised my mistake as I was digging in.

Is it really worth the $$ swapping out of what you have, just to a 14km trip off the tar? Know anyone that would
a. go with you or
b. lend you a 4x4 for the weekend?

An E-Locker will certainly get you further, but I think it is the rolling front wheels providing resistance that will make the back did in. It would be interesting to give it a go and see though. I have a rear locker, but have never tried just that on the sand.
But the LRDG crossed the Sahara many times in 2WD 3 ton trucks in the 2nd Great Unpleasantness, I hear there is a bit of dry sand in that part of the world.
I remember reading about a bloke that had a RTV falcon and was in a Alice Springs 4x4 club. He as a paraplegic, but with the locker and heavy use of the hand throttle he went (almost) everywhere the rest of the guys in the club went.
I had a 2.5L diesel courier extra cab, I'm 6'4" too, so had to look around for options. D22 was off the list because the kids and I have legs, if I had the off at the thigh it would be sweet.
AnswerID: 594338

Reply By: gbc - Thursday, Dec 31, 2015 at 06:21

Thursday, Dec 31, 2015 at 06:21
I've driven into Harry's in a family car. Just don't go after rain and you are fine. a locker or lsd will help your ute immeasurably, as will going up a size or two in rubber for the softer stuff. Carry an old hand winch as security and have a play locally before you commit.
AnswerID: 594342

Reply By: Athol W1 - Thursday, Dec 31, 2015 at 09:28

Thursday, Dec 31, 2015 at 09:28
Greg
I also have read about the guy from Alice Springs, Joel Fleming if I recall correctly, who regularly towed his camper trailer across the Simpson Desert with his 2wd Falcon RTV ute which was fitted with Ford's Hydra Trac limited diff system, and he was generally one of the first group to cross each year. Ford's Hydra Trac system used hydraulic pumps to provide the forces required to provide a very good limited slip function, it was not a true locking diff.

I also know a guy who towed his fishing boat most of the length of Fraser Island with a 70series Toyota ute 4x4 fitted with an Air Locking rear diff, and he does this relying only on the rear diff being locked, including the Indian Head track and the Waddy Point track.

Remember that most 4wd vehicles suddenly become only 2wd as soon as any one of the 4 wheels loses traction, as the corresponding wheel suddenly has NO driving torque delivered to it (differential action) so all the driving torque is delivered to the opposite end of the vehicle, then if one of those wheels has little traction it could break traction leaving the vehicle sitting on 2 wheels with the other 2 just digging holes, or spinning in the air.

The best way of ensuring that you have maximum tractive effort is to have lockable diffs fitted (Elocker or ARB Air Locker as true driver controlled locking diffs, or Detroit Locker or Lok Rite as automatic unlocking diffs that are normally locked, just to name a few) as these systems deliver driving torque to both wheels on an axle regardless of the traction available to its corresponding wheel.

Certainly Harry's Hut can be done safely in any vehicle with reasonable ground clearance when dry (clay or sandy soil, but no soft sand), I would not go into there when wet even with 4wd.

Hope this helps.
Regards
Athol
AnswerID: 594354

Reply By: The Bantam - Thursday, Dec 31, 2015 at 10:39

Thursday, Dec 31, 2015 at 10:39
The short answer is ... NO you don't need a 4wd and I doubt you need the locking dif either.

Some good tyres ( all terains like the 4wds use) and maybee some bash plates should serve you well.

cheers


AnswerID: 594359

Reply By: Ron N - Thursday, Dec 31, 2015 at 11:33

Thursday, Dec 31, 2015 at 11:33
Greg - We old fellas used to travel all over Australia, rugged dirt roads, through rough paddocks, traverse some of the roughest tracks - and do it all in (now-ancient) 2WD Holden utes!

As a former earthmoving contractor for over 30 yrs, I didn't acquire a 4WD (a 1960 4 cyl petrol traytop Landrover) until 1967 - and that was only because the Holden utes didn't like pulling 1000 gallon (4500 litre) 4 wheel fuel tanker trailers through sandy paddocks!

Keep the weight on your drive axle, go slightly oversize on the tyre fitment, don't use low profile tyres (we always used Michelin radials, even in the early 60's - and the wall softness of the Michelins helped with traction) - and you'll be able to traverse 98% of the places you want to go.

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 594361

Reply By: Alloy c/t - Thursday, Dec 31, 2015 at 11:45

Thursday, Dec 31, 2015 at 11:45
True , you don't 'really' need a 4x4 but reading your post over again if you have 20k plus your trade-in you should really be able to source a reasonable 4x4 ute with all the fruit already fitted , you don't state where you are based but places such as Townsville 4x4 is a starting point to see whats available ….
AnswerID: 594362

Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Thursday, Dec 31, 2015 at 13:16

Thursday, Dec 31, 2015 at 13:16
Gday,
Only you can decide that..........If your happy missing out on seeing places that are 4wd only and digging yourself out of bogs or asking for a tow when you get stuck, you probably don't need one.
If you like to be self sufficient and get out and see the harder to get to places without planning your trip around the chance of a shower, well you probably should have one.
I personally wouldn't waste my money on diff locks and raised suspension etc on a 2wd.......if you need more than 2wd get a 4wd............
And the old argument of travelling the roughest tracks in the country in an old Holden ute, and the blackfellas do it all the time is rubbish in my opinion too.
2wd's do not go the places 4wd's do unless your prepared to winch and dig for days or get towed over sand hills with dozers etc.
And......have you ever seen the condition of a blackfellas car that has done a few trips across the Tanami? I have and that's not how I like to travel for any length of time.......neither do they by the way. They buy another one every 12 months or so.

It all depends on the type of person you are and where you plan to go,,,,good luck.

Cheers
AnswerID: 594366

Reply By: jodie0075 - Thursday, Dec 31, 2015 at 17:39

Thursday, Dec 31, 2015 at 17:39
Hi Greg,

All i can tell you is my setup is as follows.

2013 Colorado Rg 2wd high clearance with LSD.

Roads traveled towing a Trak Shak camper trailer as follows.

Tanami, Gibb River Road and all camps along the way, Savannah Way. Bungle Bungles all in good weather and heaps of little side roads through W.A and the N.T when site seeing no problems ever. Cape York next year.

Dont care what you have, if theirs enough rain you aint going anywhere even if you have a you beaut 4wd.

Cheers Gazza
AnswerID: 594373

Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Thursday, Dec 31, 2015 at 19:52

Thursday, Dec 31, 2015 at 19:52
Gday Gazza,

I don't think anyone would say you cant do some good trips in a 2wd......its just that you are limited in one. There's a lot of places you cant get in in a 2wd where a 4wd will make it easily.......like those camp sites a little bit further up the beach where you get less people and more fish because they cant all get there for eg..........
2wd are usually restricted to the popular campsites with heaps of people.
Also a 4wd on a slippery wet dirt rd is a lot easier to handle than a 2wd, and although not bullet proof they will get you a lot further and generally home, unlike a 2wd in the same circumstances.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 862751

Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Thursday, Dec 31, 2015 at 19:11

Thursday, Dec 31, 2015 at 19:11
You do what you can with what you have, but there is no question that Australia is double the size if you have 4WD (and know how to use it).

Once a 4WD owner, always a 4WD owner.

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 Motorhome
AnswerID: 594374

Reply By: GREG T11 - Thursday, Dec 31, 2015 at 20:49

Thursday, Dec 31, 2015 at 20:49
Thanks people for all the replies which all make sense.

Funny, I put the mocka on myself by saying how good the Bravo has been. Today on a trip to Tin Can Bay but didn't quite make it. The combination of leaking rear wheel cylinder ( one wheel dragging as 1 shoe wasn't able to release off the drum ) and car running hotter than normal turned us around. The brakes are easy and hopefully the cooling system isn't too serious but I hope they can save the $200 odd bucks of genuine Mazda coolant that was put 12 months ago Lol.

So some money to be spent and hence will probably hold on to it for a bit.

To top it off the second hand canopy I went to look at was a tad to long for the tray so no wins today.

Happy New Year to all.
AnswerID: 594377

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Thursday, Dec 31, 2015 at 20:57

Thursday, Dec 31, 2015 at 20:57
$200 of genuine Mazda coolant ...... they saw you comming.
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FollowupID: 862753

Follow Up By: GREG T11 - Thursday, Dec 31, 2015 at 21:25

Thursday, Dec 31, 2015 at 21:25
What would you suggest then ???
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FollowupID: 862755

Follow Up By: GREG T11 - Thursday, Dec 31, 2015 at 22:01

Thursday, Dec 31, 2015 at 22:01
It was actually $151 + gst. Just out of interest I will ring Mazda spare parts and check. I will be very surprised and disappointed in my mechanic if the mark up if any is substantially more than the dealer.

You are aware though that regardless I have to put a pink coolant that meets factory specs or hope like buggery that a very good flush is performed as the dramas of mixing different types is gunna cost a whole lot more than $ 200..
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FollowupID: 862758

Follow Up By: GREG T11 - Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 23:33

Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 23:33
Yep, quoted $157 + gst by mazda dealer for 5 ltrs . So Mr Bantam you don't quite know everything !

Me, I'm still learning everyday, todays lesson was Mazda parts aren't cheap. For love or money no aftermarket wheel cylinders are available for a B4000 as a repo part. Tried Bursons, Repco, Mazparts in Victoria and the brake specialists who machined the drums and source brake specific parts on a day to day basis couldn't source any . So $408 later 2 wheel cylinders from Mazda dealer to be collected tomorrow.

From what I can work out the smaller diesel and 4 cyl petrol run a 9 inch drum and the V6 has a 10 inch . Only thing I can pin it down to.

Instead of your sage advice regards seeing a sucker. I would be being showing sympathy, after all I had to bend over and take it again today ! The rear ( pocket ) is gonna hurt

If only a crystal ball was available .
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FollowupID: 863012

Follow Up By: Ron N - Sunday, Jan 10, 2016 at 22:06

Sunday, Jan 10, 2016 at 22:06
Greg, you aren't looking hard enough. Aftermarket B4000 wheel cylinders to fit 10" rear brakes are available on eBay Australia, ex-U.S. for AU$33 plus AU$34 shipping.
The seller would probably ship two cylinders for less than AU$50. The only downside is the wait of a week to10 days to get them.

Re the coolant - if it was supplied and installed and the system flushed at the same time, $157 is about right.
Specialised coolants run to about $10 a litre and workshop hourly rates are $100-120 hr.

I buy Toyota coolant additive wholesale and it still costs around $10 a litre.
With the Toyota coolant additive, you add about 40% additive to de-ionised water.

Buying the correct OEM coolant or additive is crucial to protect your cooling system and necessary to save you thousands in corrosion repair costs otherwise.

The Missus' old Camry (2001) model has had regular religious replacement of the coolant every 3 years, with the genuine Toyota additive - and you can eat your dinner off any part of the inside of the cooling system.
In addition, not a single cooling system part has ever been replaced - not even a hose!

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 863271

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Sunday, Jan 10, 2016 at 23:13

Sunday, Jan 10, 2016 at 23:13
"Buying the correct OEM coolant or additive is crucial to protect your cooling system and necessary to save you thousands in corrosion repair costs otherwise."

What a complete an utter load of crap.

Anybody who is charging $150pluss for coolant is taking a big profit pure and simple.

ALL engines and cooling systems are made out of the same group of materials ...... there are no wonder materials or any new technology in use any any normal vehicle.

You need the correct type of coolant in the correct concentration. ..... most modern vehicle require twice the previoulsy considered normal concentration.

There are pretty much two types of coolant currently in use ...... green coolant and pink coolant ........ Pink coolant has a marginal advantage over green coolant in engines with alloy radiators.

Green coolant will work in engines with alloy radiators just fine ...... but it must not be mixed with pink coolant.......... a very thorough flush is required when changing coolant types.

It IS that simple.

If someone wants to argue otherwise ..... you better be able to show an ingredients list for the overpriced coolant.

One thing you MUST know about coolant is ...... it must be replaced before the chemicals are spent otherwise it becomes corrosive ....... and that means every 2 years.

Many of the coolant manufacturers claim 5 years ........ the car companies changed to pink coolant because it has a longer life in alloy radiators, and it allows them to manipulate their costs of service and environmental impact figures.

change your coolant every 2 years regardless of type and you will have no corroson problems.

cheers
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FollowupID: 863279

Follow Up By: Ron N - Monday, Jan 11, 2016 at 01:04

Monday, Jan 11, 2016 at 01:04
Sorry, Bantam - You're the one full of crap. I've owned 100's of items of equipment and fleets of vehicles over more than 50 yrs, to have enough hands-on experience that showed me, that there's that many variations in ready-mixed coolant and coolant additives - that these variation makes a major difference in corrosion protection performance.

In fact, when I started in business, about the only coolant additive available, was soluble oil!

The basic ingredient of manufacturers coolant and antifreeze, produced since before WW2 is Ethylene Glycol.
However, manufacturers add their own mix of additional additive chemicals to EG, that are tailored to the metals mix in their engines.

There are up to 7 or 8 additional chemicals added to EG to inhibit corrosion and to provide anti-freeze abilities.
Some of these chemicals are - Nitrites, Silicates, Phosphates, Chromate, Tolyltriazole and Mercaptobenzothiazole - and Organic Acids. There are more - these are just off the top of my head.

The green/yellow coolants contains largely silicates and phosphates as corrosion inhibitors - the orange/pink/red coolants contain complex organic acids as corrosion inhibitors.
The colours are added via dyes, for coolant group compatibility identification.

These two colour groups are not compatible, because the organic acids used in the orange/pink/red coolants react chemically with the silicates and phosphates in the green/yellow coolants, to create new chemical compounds, that degrade the coolants ability to protect against corrosion.
Mixing these two different coolant groups can cause coolant gelling, and even accelerated corrosion.

Nearly all engines used to be fully cast iron - today we have engines that are a mix of aluminium and magnesium alloys, combinations of cast iron and alloys - and we have wide variations in the mixtures of metals added to aluminium alloys.
We have aluminium alloys used in heads and blocks today, that contain nickel, or iron, or silicon, or all three, in the aluminium alloys.
We used to have brass and copper radiators - nowadays, nearly all radiators are aluminium or aluminium alloy.

Cummins engines are notorious for cylinder liner electrolysis, caused by liner vibration. If you use off-the-shelf el-cheapo ready-mixed coolant, or corrosion inhibitors, in your Cummins engines, you can expect holes in your liners long before your engine wears out - thus destroying your engine.
Use the OEM Cummins coolant, and you'll find the coolant is tailored with the correct chemical additives (higher levels of nitrites) to combat the liner electrolysis, by coating the liners with a layer of nitrite, that inhibits electrolysis.

I've bought basic, off-the-shelf el-cheapo plain green ethylene glycol, and used it in early Holden V8's - and had the alloy inlet manifolds corrode out within 2 yrs.
I changed to the genuine Holden coolant with the necessary chemical additives for the alloy in Holden engines, and the corrosion problem vanished.

Even Holden had some serious problems with their recommended coolant in early Commodore V6's.
The Commodores had serious cooling system corrosion problems, and Holden had to change their coolant package to defeat the corrosion problem the Commodore V6's had.

The chemical additive mix in coolants is a finely-balanced act - sort of like cooking a perfect cake.
Get the recipe wrong, and you have a disaster on your hands.

I know enough about chemicals to understand complex chemical reactions, and how finely balanced many chemical compounds are - and how quickly chemical compounds and additives can react or break down.
I've owned my own lab for chemical/metals testing, complete with an Atomic Adsorption Spectrometer - and I know how to use an AAS.

Add more chemical compounds to other chemical compounds, without knowing the full and precise chemical makeup of each, and you can create some serious chemical reactions, that produce adverse results.

Controlling corrosion and electrolysis in various engines and cooling systems with the vast array of current modern metals in those systems, is a black art - but the start of that black art, is to use the manufacturers tailored coolant - which is designed in its chemical additive makeup - by the manufacturers engineers - to protect the precise metals and combinations of alloys, used in their engines.

It's that simple. Use an off-the-shelf el-cheapo plain ethylene glycol from some place like Repco or Supercheap, and you're asking for corrosion problems, if you have a current model vehicle, with a mix of alloys in the cooling system.

Below is an interesting SAE write up, about Ford going to one world-wide coolant for all their engines.
However, to move to that one world-wide coolant, Ford have had to do a lot of engine modifications and checks on compatibilities, before they make the move.

SAE - Article 8242 - Ford moves to one type of engine coolant, worldwide

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 863283

Follow Up By: Ron N - Monday, Jan 11, 2016 at 01:08

Monday, Jan 11, 2016 at 01:08
Darn the lack of editing ability! - that's supposed to be Atomic Absorption Spectrometer!
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FollowupID: 863284

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Monday, Jan 11, 2016 at 10:57

Monday, Jan 11, 2016 at 10:57
Now we are not talking about Cummins or Mack or what ever big truck engine worth more than most 4wds just for the engine alone are we. ....... Vehicles with long service intervals and engine warranties so good, retail car buyers would not believe it.

We are talking about snotty little pasenger derived commercials.

Remeber what I said about coolant replacement ...... they are looking for 5 and 6 years out of a coolant ...... of course they will have problems if they don't "taylor" the chemical make up off the coolant because one cehmical will be depleated before another., depending on the circumstance. ..... particularly if the car company had stuffed up in their engine design or has outsourced substandard alloy.

Refeering to the SAE article .......Remember this is a general interest magazine article and not a technical document ............ One of the considerations in europe is an extreeme hardwater test ....... well every source I know recommends using demineralised or distilled water when mixing coolants. ...... If ya gona mix ya coolant with hard water containing iron and other salts .... well ya just bleep half ya corrosion protection down the drain. ...... extreem hard water test .. a rediculous consideration

We keep comming back to two types of coolant commonly used on the small vehicle market in Australia...... Glycol bassed and OAT bassed ....... green and pink.

There is some difference in concentrations used ... Toyota has always used twice the concentration some other manufacturers did ...... and this was more to do with boiling point than corrosion.

As far as all this vitriol toward "cheap coolants" ...... there are modern, good quality aftermarket long life coolants available that will work just fine in pretty much any vehicle as long as the correct family of coolant is used. In fact many are guaranteed in writing.

I actually doubt that you could buy a " Cheap Glycol coolant" these days. If ya going to piss on quality aftermarket products, you better have some evidence.

IF you have a car manufacturer who is trying to sell you pretty much any chemical or fluid for your car at an inflated price ...... and particularly if they are not publishing their required specifications ...... they are setting up to take a profit ...... pure and simple.

If they DO publish a specification, there WILL be an aftermarket product that meets or exceed that requirement.

Now ...... this is interesting ...... check the SAE article.

At the end there is a claim that a given coolant is good for 6 years from the initial fill, and only 3 years after that ........ Either the coolant is viable for 3 or 6 ....... again it occurs to me that the car comapny is tyring to mainipulate its cost of onership and environmental impact figures ........ the coolant probably should have been changed at 3 years the first time ..... Remember many of these vehicles now come with free and fixed price services ........ once the car company is not paying for the coolant ... yeh it needs changing every 3 years. ....... OR is it a different coolant at the factory and the dealer.

I trust these car companies as far as I can comfortably spit a rat... especially the american ones.

We keep comming back to Two dfifferent types of coolant commonly used and that is green and pink, in the correct concentration. ....If you flush & change it every 2 years you will not have a problem.

If you are paying $200 for a fill of coolant in a pasenger derived commercial ...... someone is copping a big profit.

If the coolant comes pre mixed ...... Oh hell, half that price you are paying is for water.

cheers
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FollowupID: 863292

Follow Up By: Ron N - Monday, Jan 11, 2016 at 11:31

Monday, Jan 11, 2016 at 11:31
Bantam, you seem to be fixated on the figure of around $200 just for the coolant cost.
As I previously stated, if Greg paid the dealer to do a flush and replace the coolant with new coolant, then there's labour cost added to the coolant cost - thus resulting in the $157 he paid.

However, if just the coolant cost alone was $157 - yes, I'd have to agree, that's a rip-off, pure and simple.

I just did some searching, and I found, "NEW Genuine Mazda FL22 Coolant 5 litre", for sale on eBay by Berwick Mazda, for $130 for the 5 litres.

In that case, I think you're right - that is a substantial rort.

However, lots of parts prices have monstrous profit levels - it's well-known the manufacturers don't make much money from manufacturing new vehicles, they make their profits from the parts for the life of the vehicle.

The major discrepancy in pricing between the genuine Toyota coolant, and the Mazda coolant, shows up the rorting.
Jarvis Toyota are currently selling the genuine Toyota coolant for $30 for 5 litres.

Greg would probably be better off checking the price of the Ford coolant - because the Mazda B4000 uses the Ford "Cologne" 4.0L V6, and the Ford coolant would be equally suitable for his engine as the Mazda FL22 coolant.

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 863293

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Monday, Jan 11, 2016 at 13:27

Monday, Jan 11, 2016 at 13:27
Now here is some interesting information.

This mazda service document http://www.miata.net/garage/tsb/01-033-07-1830b.pdf

shows a couple of interesting critical pieces of information.

• In the case of older models, the coolant replacement
interval is every five (5) years or 60,000 miles
(96,000 km).
• FL22 coolant is compatible with current (Green) ethylene glycol coolant.
• If FL22 coolant is mixed with existing Orange coolant, coolant color will turn black.
For customer satisfaction, DO NOT mix FL22 coolant and Orange coolant

SO ...

FL22 coolant is compatable with normal green glycol coolant

In older model cars it has a recommended replacement interval that is the same as normal green glycol coolant.

Sounds like ..... its normal green glycol coolant.

But in the current model vehiclesthey claim ist good for 10 years or 190 000km for the original fill ....... But Oh surprise surprise .... subsiquent fills ..... its back to the interval for normal green glycol coolant.

Yeh I recon its normal current spec green glycol coolant that you can buy pretty much anywhere for about $40 to $50 retail, for 5 litres in concentrated form. for a known brand.

cheers
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FollowupID: 863300

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Monday, Jan 11, 2016 at 14:33

Monday, Jan 11, 2016 at 14:33
I've just been updating my knoweledge on coolants ....... and yeh thigs have changed, but not much.

We still have standard families of coolant.

Green .. glycol based
Pretty much the standard coolant we all know and love.

Red/orange/pink .... OAT Organic Additve Technology
A newer and possibly the most popular in later model cars.

Blue or BLL coolant
Used in many european cars or cars for the european market.

to put it crudely, the red and blue coolants where driven primarily by environmental concerns...... in particular the blue coolant.



Now the truth of the matter ...... the modern formulations and chemical systems for all these coolants are propriatary in nature ...... in that they are owned and maunfactured by or under licence to a specific chemical company.
That company either makes or licences the manufacture of those coolants.

SO if you buy a modern green long life coolant ........ there is a pretty much 90% chance that it was manufactured by the japanese company CCI, then reconstituted or simply decanted into the bottles you buy it in.
Go an look at the claims and the specs of all the modern type green long life coolants and they will be the same ...... and for a good reason.... they are or so close it does not matter.

The green Glycol coolant that seems to have been around ... like for ever ..... realy has not ..... it has changed several times over the last 30 odd years ........ the green glycol fludu you buy now, is chemically very different to that you would buy 20 or even 10 years ago.

I think you would have a very hard time buying a green glycol coolant that was not of the long life type similar to this fabled Mazda LF22.

The rule remains ...... use the same colour coolant that is in the radiator at the correct concentration and you should be just fine.

OH and if you are thinking about running your coolant for 10 years ....... you have rocks in your head ...... I;ll continue to change mine every 2 years ..... but I won't get bitter and twisted if it runs a bit longer.

cheers
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FollowupID: 863303

Reply By: vk1dx - Monday, Jan 11, 2016 at 07:33

Monday, Jan 11, 2016 at 07:33
Our choice was easy. We wanted to go to the deserts and the high country. On the first trip to Big Red we were following an awd and because the detour sand was soft we had to pull him out three times between Birdville and Big Red. Same with a falcon ute in the high country just pas Tom Groggin. Didn't have enough traction in the wet. Even had to extract a bloke from Tunnel Creek in the Kimberley. He, and his useless mates, were in a family sedan. Just not enough traction.

I don't believe you are allowed into the Bungle Bungles with a 2WD. And I wouldn't even think of trying to get over Big Red for the Jimmy Barnes show. Forget the CREB, Old Tele Line and I wouldn't take one to the beach at Fraser Island. A lot of tracks are signed as 4WD only.

We wanted to go to these places and now we can. And as we like to do it, go solo on our own. We purchased a 100 series and built it up a bit.

So it all depends on where you want to go.

Phil
AnswerID: 594726

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