Spare tyres

Submitted: Tuesday, Jan 05, 2016 at 18:31
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Hi I just put on 4 new A/T tyres on 4wd but my 2 spares are H.T. TREAD Is it better the 2 spares to be A/T tread thanks
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Reply By: Les - PK Ranger - Tuesday, Jan 05, 2016 at 18:38

Tuesday, Jan 05, 2016 at 18:38
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Preferably all tyres should be similar, but you could get by ok if only travelling a relatively short distance then getting a new replacement.
This would be costly and time consuming most times if remote, much better to be right to just change over, and all wheels / tyres rotated every service . . . 6 tyre rotate, whatever number you have, wear them all evenly over their life.

You must ensure rolling dias are the same though.
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, Jan 05, 2016 at 18:42

Tuesday, Jan 05, 2016 at 18:42
Nevr understood why some carry 2 spares anyway Stephen, espically at the rear, and so compromize there cars handling.

But in this case a single AT spare would be better than 2 HTs.

Presume your AT tyres are Light Truck types.
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Tuesday, Jan 05, 2016 at 20:06

Tuesday, Jan 05, 2016 at 20:06
"Nevr understood why some carry 2 spares anyway Stephen, espically at the rear, and so compromize there cars handling."

I can see your argument in the High Country, Robin.

What about outback roads and tracks in NSW, SA, WA, QLD, NT, with gibber, flints, stakes, etc? You seem to be defying conventional wisdom. Do you hold the same view in in regard to those areas?

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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, Jan 05, 2016 at 20:47

Tuesday, Jan 05, 2016 at 20:47
As to the intial OP's question; You will be fine but try to minimise the "odd tyre" situation and have them all the same.

Same as Frank for carriage of spares.

Robin we installed a long range tank under the car. I will not carry fuel in the cabin and detest carrying it on the roof so the under car long range tank was a must. We can now make the CSR and Simpson etc etc without extra fuel cans. A much safer proposition.

That meant the spare goes at the rear. It is also highly recommended that we carry two spares for our remote solo vehicle trips. So they both have to go on the rear. No room on the roof with the RTT up there.

What would you do?

Phil
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Tuesday, Jan 05, 2016 at 21:16

Tuesday, Jan 05, 2016 at 21:16
I punchured a rear tyre on the Oodnadatta Track in 1999, by the time I stopped, it was in pieces, too fast, high pressure, R/T tyre... Anyway, pretty scary driving without a spare in the middle of nowhere. I have to say those dual wheel bars look heavy and would absorb a lot of the available legal GVM. I made my own hitch mount second spare holder, weighs 18 kg plus the wheel, remove when I get home. Michael
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Tuesday, Jan 05, 2016 at 22:21

Tuesday, Jan 05, 2016 at 22:21
Much the same experience myself, Michael, in much the same area.

In my early days, first major outback trip, I had only one spare. Shredded a tyre north of Oddnadatta - same as you, pressures too high. I know better now, and OEM tyres on the Prado were not really up to the job. We enjoyed an unscheduled overnight for our group on Fogarty's Claypan. Next day I borrowed a mate's spare from his Prado and we went back to the Pink Roadhouse for a new tyre and, having learned a bit of a lesson, a used carcass (mate carried tyre irons and R&B bead breaker). And a welcome lecture on tyre pressures from Adam Plate (RIP).

Speed was never an issue, but tyre pressures and tyres were. Now I use better tyres, lower pressures to suit conditions, a TPMS and second spare for outback treks.

Since I started doing that, 80k km ago, I have always come back with the same 6 tyres I left with.

Maybe Robin has a point :-)

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Follow Up By: Top End Az - Tuesday, Jan 05, 2016 at 22:26

Tuesday, Jan 05, 2016 at 22:26
I've never understood why I carry two spares either all over the country ( one underneath, other on the roof rack. Murphy's law will come in the day I leave the second spare at home.
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Tuesday, Jan 05, 2016 at 22:50

Tuesday, Jan 05, 2016 at 22:50
While it might be no drama to do 2 or 3 trips into remote areas with only one spare, the more time one spends in these areas, the more chance that a 2nd spare will be needed. A spare case is a good option, but if you carry too much tyre changing gear then it might be better to just have a complete 2nd spare.

One other point I'd make is you don't see too many station vehicles without 2 spares. It costs time, and money, to have to run another vehicle out to "rescue" a vehicle, that didn't carry a second spare. One year I was doing quite a bit of travel for work. Carried 3 spares, and never had one tyre issue!

Take Robin's point about 2 spares on the rear.... Lot of weight right at the back. Most will remember that white Triton that had a bend in the chassis, literally at right angles.......just kidding. 2 full spares fitted right at the rear.

Bob

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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 08:05

Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 08:05
Until a few years ago we only carried one spare. But for our forerays into the CSR, WA deserts and a recent Madigan Line drive we added a second wheel carrier. There isn't enough room on the rack for a wheel as well as the RTT.

Still no flats since 1969 at Oran park!!! And then you wonder about all the money spent for ZIP!.

Murphy has to be just around the corner. You never know and as we do most drives solo then it's worth it just for insurance. The over riding specification for everything we do to the car, is to get us back home. Not to just "go there" and leave us stuck somewhere isolated. In five days driving the Madigan we did not see another soul. CSR - like bloody Pitt Street.

Phil
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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 08:06

Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 08:06
Yeah, old Murphy will get you eventually.
Deserts are one place a 2nd complete spare can be a godsend.

July '15 trip, we had a small convoy going up BV Tk, running 28psi full desert load, picked up a tek near Mungerannie, in fact 2 vehicles got teks within 100m !! Bloody Phil throwing them out there :D
Anyway, mine also got a small gash open on the side wall, only a few cm, but changed to spare 1.

Fixed that in the desert one night, 1 plug in the tek hole, 7 in the side wall, held 40psi for the rest of the trip.

Glad I had that as a back up, but when I totally blew a tyre on Finke - Maryvale demolition corros, I was very glad to have the 2nd spare on board.

2 new tyres in Alice and we were all good to carry on toe the West Macs :) :)
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 08:28

Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 08:28
My teck screws have the initials "BS" stamped on the top.

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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 09:16

Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 09:16
Hi Guys - Frank I don't quite hold the same views on outback roads, rather its more important then to not carry a second tyre on rear.

Its most important in achieving any outcome that you hit the problem that is most likely to occur and that has the biggest consequences first.

Statisically the biggest threat out there is rollovers etc on gravel roads , and 50 odd kilo extra at the back is not good, as many on this site have been faced with.

Rather I believe your better off to carry right tools including spare tube to be able to repair a tyre.

Of course keeping car below GVM , good tyres, the right pressures and speed all are part of the mix.
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 10:03

Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 10:03
Phil,

I'd suggest Les was talking about Phil @ Mungerannie, not casting aspersions on your good character. :-). Do like your comeback though!

Bob

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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 13:42

Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 13:42
Geez Robin, I think you have a fixation with the possibility of rollovers. First prado's, now tyres.

As to stats on roll overs, in the outback, if you exclude Britz campers hired by Europeans, the stats would be a lot lower, and they don't have 2 spares. Google rollover outback, nearly every report is a hired vehicle.

I needed 2 spares on my recent trip on AB, CS and abandoned section of the gunbarell hwy. 2 vehicles with 3 badly staked tyres, 800km from a servo. I would NEVER do a trip like that without 2 spares or more.

I know you are well prepared so each to their own but
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Reply By: Batt's - Tuesday, Jan 05, 2016 at 22:53

Tuesday, Jan 05, 2016 at 22:53
I personally think it would depend on whether you're into doing a lot of 4WDriving on rough tracks and if you go to remote areas then I would have all 6 the same but for general forestry tracks, medium off road stuff and beach driving as long as their all the same height I can't see any problem with it. I'm up for new tyres this year I'll be buying 6 so I have 2 spares on rims so tyre changes will be quicker and easier.
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Reply By: wholehog - Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 00:28

Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 00:28
I have carried 2 spares for years..and on steel rims. Never had a weight or handling issue. Use a quality rear bar and wheel carrrier, have decent springs and shocks for the load and travels. In my years all over the country I have gotten down to the last spare twice and driven from 1 side to the other feeling safe and comfortable...till the last time about 600kms from home. You guessed it..!

If people have a weird issue with the supposed weight of an extra spare wheel..or alloy over steel wheels..then why do you fill you fuel tank up...instead of only 1/2 filling it to save weight/mass..?
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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 08:08

Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 08:08
Love steelies.
And with my stock 15's vs my 16" alloys and wider tyres, they still weight only 28kg vs 36kg.
My blowout on Finke - Maryvale Rd last year saw the rim buckle on the corros after it went instant flat, simple hammer up in Alice when getting a couple of tyres, and all good still to this day.
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 08:12

Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 08:12
We fill our main and sub up because of where we go. Try driving our car from Wiluna up the CSR and see if you can get to Kuna in one go. What about a cross country crossing of the Simpson. I would not rely on any fuel dump these days so it's over 1000 Kms on rough tracks. Too far for a standard car fuel load.

We also had our suspension etc modified for the extra weight and had the GVM upped another 500 Kg because we were overweight. But that's the price of travelling remotely and on your own. You have to carry extra fuel, food and "stuff". You can't rely on a co-traveller. There aren't any!.

So I say that the OP will be fine with mixed tyres but should make them all the same at some stage.

Phil
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Follow Up By: wholehog - Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 09:32

Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 09:32
Been there done that, filled standard tank and LR tank up at Wiluna, travelled CSR north, bought 100 litres diesel at Kunawarritji then travelled thru Billiluna then a drop into Wolfe Crater and on to Halls Creek to refuel.
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Reply By: Member - mark D18 - Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 08:55

Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 08:55
Stephen

The 2 HT tyres will be fine for spares.

With the improved tyre quality these days and Tyre plugs flat tyres even in remote areas are rare.

Cheers

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Jackolux - Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 10:10

Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 10:10
Yeah , Mate she be right , with any luck you won't need either of em .
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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 11:30

Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 11:30
..
PROVIDED they are same rolling dia, or if 4WD not needed and open diffs.
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Follow Up By: Jackolux - Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 12:13

Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 12:13
You can even get by with different diameter tyres , depending on the vehicle , it might mean putting the bigger wheel on the front
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Follow Up By: Stephen F2 - Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 15:31

Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 15:31
thanks yes luck of the draw. We ran solely special sand tyres at work not a flat for 2 years then the next year 6 flats, maybe tyre quality who knows .Worst thing is picking up nails and screws annoying I had 2 screws on 1 trip in Qld only was 3 months away . cheers
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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 15:42

Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 15:42
Yes, I think those corroed tracks are the worst, and Birdsville, Oodnadatta, Strzeleki Tks seem to be the worst in SA, as they are easy access roads in general, a lot of people take their campers, vans, trailers etc, and they get the bejesus rattled out of them.
No doubt that's where the teks and other such comes from, not from Phil (at Mungerannie) really :)
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Reply By: Idler Chris - Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 13:21

Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 13:21
I do a lot of remote travelling and would not dream of travelling without 2 spares and a good TPMS. I would not travel remotely with H/T tyres, but thats me. Whether you should do it would depend on where you go and whether you are with other vehicles. You need to do a cost/risk analysis.

As for carrying two spares on the back Robin Miller makes a very valid point about the weight affecting handling. He was probably referring to me in that post. I had a Toyota 110 series with a duel wheel carrier on the back and two alloy wheels and tyres. Six months ago on a gravel road I got a bit of a wiggle up and was unable to straighten up and got so far sideways the the vehicle rolled. When I replay the video from my dash cam one wonders why I was unable to correct the wiggle. Robin's contention that the weight so far back was a contributing factor is without doubt correct. Had I not had my spares on the back I cannot be sure that I would have been able to regain control, but after careful consideration of all the facts I believe that they were a major contributing factor.

Phil has the same vehicle I had with the same RTT and LR tanks and has explained that he has no choice as to where his two spares go, and others maybe have the same problem as where else they can put their spares.

The lesson is, that if you have spare wheel(s) on the back it DOES affect vehicle handling and so you should drive accordingly.

My new vehicle will be a Isuzu D-Max spacecab with a Gecko trayback camper on the back. From the lessons I have learnt from my accident I will leave the spare in its original place and for the sixth wheel I am having a toolbox made which will be between the cab and the tray to house my tools and the sixth wheel.
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Follow Up By: Member - mark D18 - Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 15:03

Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 15:03
Chris,

That's a really good honest appraisal of what can go wrong with the incorrect weight distribution.

When you say you are going to make a toolbox and a place to install your 2nd Spare behind the cab , wouldn't it be better for weight balance to move the camper up behind the cab of the D-Max and have the 2nd spare on the back .

This is my no means a criticism of your proposed setup but more of an interest in 4x4 setups,
I have a troop carrier with the factory wheel on the back door and I carry a 2nd spare on my roof rack when I travel remotely .

I have been toying with the idea of getting a twin wheel carrier but after your story I will give it a miss .

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Stephen F2 - Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 15:33

Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 15:33
I will keep 1 tyre in original spot under the tub and put the other one on roof rack thanks
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Follow Up By: Idler Chris - Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 17:40

Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 17:40
Mark, fair comment. The reason is that the toolbox is before the tray so that it is deeper but apart from the spare wheel it also houses, tools, air compressor, camper legs (80kgs), chainsaw, recovery gear and few other things I need when 4WDing without the camper on. The camper is aluminium and designed with the major weight components forward, so as far as weight distribution goes the way we have planned it is by far the best solution.
If you carry a wheel on the roof this is not good as it is weight up high. So which is best, do you carry the second spare on the roof or on a rear wheel carrier? So be absolutely sure you would have to have to carry out tests which I doubt anyone is prepared to do. In different situations one would be better than the the other but overall it is probably much of a muchness. One thing that is CERTAIN is the either choice compromises the handling of any vehicle and you need to factor this into your driving style.
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Follow Up By: Member - mark D18 - Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 18:26

Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 18:26
Chris
I don't really like putting the 2nd spare on the roof but I have no choice . As you and some others do I endeavour to drive to the conditions , use the correct tyre pressures and make sure my suspension is up to the task , but it amazing how easily accidents can happen even to the experienced

Cheers
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Reply By: Dion - Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 22:36

Wednesday, Jan 06, 2016 at 22:36
I've always had two spares, ever since I've owned 4WDrives. My 2005 RA LT Rodeo and my 2013 LS-U D- Max, both fitted with Half/Tread (H/T) tyres are the only time I've had punctures.My other two Rodeos that have always had A/T or LT tyres, iI've always worn out before getting punctures. When the Half Treads wear out, which is always quicker than AT, they get replaced with AT. Also I've found when I want to buy tyres, six at a time, the unit price of each tyre is significantly reduced, to the point, might as well say the 6th tyre is free.
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