Mud tyres on Caravans

Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 17, 2016 at 16:33
ThreadID: 131624 Views:4405 Replies:14 FollowUps:18
This Thread has been Archived
Is there a good reason (apart from looks) that offroad caravans almost always come with muddies? Strikes me that it shouldn't matter much and muddies don't roll as easy as H/T and A/T.
Ideas?
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Idler Chris - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2016 at 16:53

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2016 at 16:53
They are stronger and less prone to puncture.
What other people think of me is none of my business.
Do unto others what you would have them do unto you.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 596324

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2016 at 20:51

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2016 at 20:51
Gday Chris,
My experience is that a good brand AT is no better and no worse than a good brand MT. But I suppose the muddies usually have an extra couple of mm tread. I'm starting to think that punctures are a thing of the past and all tyres are a lot better than they used to be. Having said that I'll get a few next trip!
But I've done about 8 trips into the GVD, and about a dozen into the Simpson and in total I've staked one tyre - that was on my second Madigan Line trip.
That's a lot different to what I had happen 15-30 years ago.
But the caravan tracks a lot wider than the Landcruiser .....maybe that makes it more prone to staking a tyre.
0
FollowupID: 865223

Follow Up By: Member - lyndon NT - Sunday, Feb 21, 2016 at 15:21

Sunday, Feb 21, 2016 at 15:21
Phil,
Just get a set of Cooper's, punctures along with the tears will be back in a flash......
Now is the only time you own
Decide now what you will,
Place faith not in tomorrow
For the clock may then be still

Member
My Profile  Send Message

1
FollowupID: 865337

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Feb 21, 2016 at 16:42

Sunday, Feb 21, 2016 at 16:42
Haha - spot on Lynton - I've never owned Cooper tyres but the caravan we bought recently came with STT's. Just deciding whether to sell them now or just see how they go.
0
FollowupID: 865340

Reply By: Mikee5 - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2016 at 17:29

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2016 at 17:29
I would say there is no reason, unless the wheels are interchangeable with the tow vehicle. As long as the tyres are LT and load rated an AT tyre is fine. The tread pattern doesn't make them and tougher
AnswerID: 596325

Follow Up By: Idler Chris - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2016 at 17:50

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2016 at 17:50
Its the heavier sidewalls that make it toughter.
What other people think of me is none of my business.
Do unto others what you would have them do unto you.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 865220

Follow Up By: Member Andys Adventures - Thursday, Feb 18, 2016 at 09:33

Thursday, Feb 18, 2016 at 09:33
Agree much stronger side walls for when you let the air out....Just because it says LT doesn't mean they are all the same.......


Cheers Andy
0
FollowupID: 865234

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, Feb 23, 2016 at 00:08

Tuesday, Feb 23, 2016 at 00:08
Can't make a blanket statement. There is a lot of variation between mud terrains - some have good strong sidewalls while others don't. And there's variation between sizes.
For example the older BFG Muddies had relatively thin sidewalls, which was largely fixed when they upgraded with the KM2. I've repaired more of those than any other muddie. The earlier Cooper STT were similar - thin sidewall.
But the Toyo M/T and the Goodyear MTR had great sidewalls from the start.
Also the aggressive sidewalls can make staking more likely.

Federal tyres had both 2 ply and 3 ply sidewalls available depending on size. I chose the Couragia A/T on the Tvan because it had 3 plies whereas the same size M/T was 2 ply.
0
FollowupID: 865398

Reply By: MEMBER - Darian, SA - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2016 at 18:17

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2016 at 18:17
A marketing strategy Phil (but you knew that :-)......surely, muddies are for grabbing things while being driven.... in the slush, to improve traction ? Vans don't have driven wheels. As well as that, it seems muddies have inferior grip on sealed surfaces, especially wet ones. A commom AT tread on LT tyres seems the go. Anyway, bona-fide van builders fit tyres specced by the buyer.
AnswerID: 596328

Reply By: Bob Y. - Qld - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2016 at 18:34

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2016 at 18:34
Probably only a marketing ploy, I'd suggest Phil?

Can't have a rugged black 'n white/grey "off road" van with wimpy HT tyres on it.......just wouldn't do!

And they're guaranteed to throw even more rocks now, with the muddies fitted.

Bob

Seen it all, Done it all.
Can't remember most of it.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 596329

Reply By: Member - Will 76 Series - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2016 at 19:23

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2016 at 19:23
Phil,
No reason apart from being interchangeable with the tow vehicle. As already stated they don't drive they just follow. AT's are more than appropriate but muddies look cooler.
AnswerID: 596333

Reply By: Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2016 at 20:03

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2016 at 20:03
I have BFG AT (or TA) on mine, purely for the sidewall strength and because they are recommended by the Karavan manufacturer.
FrankP

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

AnswerID: 596334

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2016 at 20:32

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2016 at 20:32
Thanks everyone for your thoughts which are similar to what I was thinking that it was mostly marketing - offroad caravans need to look tough. Our caravan came with Cooper STT - not my favourite brand but no reason to change them. Most seem to come with the cheapest chinese "flung dung" brand muddie.
A few years back I was towing the Tvan through the Flinders and the heavens opened up when we were driving from Parachilna to Blinman. The road was being resurfaced and turned into a very slippery clay. At times the Tvan was going sideways - the fat AT tyres were clogged up and slipped all over the place. I fear this big tall caravan doing the same thing, but wondered whether having muddies might stop it sliding sideways a bit in that situation.
AnswerID: 596335

Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Sunday, Feb 21, 2016 at 20:49

Sunday, Feb 21, 2016 at 20:49
One point no one's mentioned Phil, is the fact that if one was to "test" the ability of M/T tyres on their 'van on a sloppy, muddy road, they would be upsetting the authorities(Highways Dept/Main Roads) quite a bit. From memory it's 2,000 penalty points in Qld..........whatever a penalty point is?

Suppose one could always claim they were doing scientific research, for the caravan fraternity?

Bob

Seen it all, Done it all.
Can't remember most of it.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

1
FollowupID: 865348

Reply By: Member - KeithB - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2016 at 21:26

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2016 at 21:26
The muddies are meant to go with the black chequerplate.
AnswerID: 596339

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Feb 17, 2016 at 21:42

Wednesday, Feb 17, 2016 at 21:42
Ha - spot on Keith - that explains why the van came with black mags as well :-)
0
FollowupID: 865224

Reply By: dennis m6 - Thursday, Feb 18, 2016 at 10:42

Thursday, Feb 18, 2016 at 10:42
I cant see why you would run muddies or aggressive a/t's on a van. unless you wanted to match them to the car for more spares
I bought a set of very mild a/t's as road tyres for my off roader ,they are actually called a/p (all purpose ??) but still a LT construction.
I think that would be the way to go
AnswerID: 596351

Reply By: pop2jocem - Thursday, Feb 18, 2016 at 11:15

Thursday, Feb 18, 2016 at 11:15
Agree with those that say it's all about image. As far as having interchangable tyres/wheels, great idea but why not put HTs on the van as the normal road going tyres but have the tyre for the spare, if you carry another on the van that is, as an AT or a MT, the same as the road going tyres on the tow vehicle.
It's still a spare for the van and also an extra spare for the tug.

Cheers
Pop
AnswerID: 596353

Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Thursday, Feb 18, 2016 at 12:52

Thursday, Feb 18, 2016 at 12:52
An interesting question Phil.

When I bought my van, it was supposed to come with the same size wheels as my Colorado.
Following delivery, I noticed that the tyres fitted were Chinese knock off Muddies. (Goodride Radial M/T)

On closer inspection the wheels on the Van were "bigger" than those on the Colorado.
The Colorado uses 245/70R16's on a rim 6.5" wide.
The Van has 265/75R16's on a 7" wide rim. Not the same. The profile of the Van wheels and tyres are wider and higher.
The rims supplied were Primal Black/Silver alloy rims which look quite good. All in all the wheels shod with the muddies give a great appearance.
This is not a big deal when touring on bitumen and nice gravel roads as one spare is sufficient.
The quality of the Goodride LT Muddies is unknown to me, but they appear to track well.

When I head into the outback however, I exchange the pretty looking "bigfoot" wheels with plain old steel Sunrasia rims I had left over from my previous camper trailer and fitted with the same size shoes of Bridgestone Dueler LT 245/70R16's that I run on the vehicle. In this setup, I have two spares for the rig.

I think you and other forumites are on the money, in that the bigger profile and wider tyres in Muddy formation look good, but that is all. Just a marketing/appearance solution.



Bill


I'm diagonally parked in a parallel Universe!

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 596355

Follow Up By: gbc - Thursday, Feb 18, 2016 at 13:07

Thursday, Feb 18, 2016 at 13:07
I just put money down on a camper which also comes on the ubiquitous goodride 265/75/16 mudders. My ute just happens to run the same size tyre so I'm not whinging too much. After hitting many manufacturers over the past two years, they have all said that if they are showing at a caravan/camping show and their product does not have independent suspension and mud tyres, half of their possible foot traffic simply walks straight past, no matter what.
It is the new 'norm'.
God only knows how my old trakshak made it offroad for 19 years on highway terrain coopers and leaf springs haha.
1
FollowupID: 865250

Reply By: Member - Andrew & Jen - Thursday, Feb 18, 2016 at 13:11

Thursday, Feb 18, 2016 at 13:11
Hullo Phil

Based on my own experience - about 100 000 kms of towing a Tvan or BT - I have found that MTs on vans are no more effective than a good LT A/T with an open tread such as the Bridgestone 697 regarding grip in slippery conditions at the lower speeds one needs to travel when towing in these conditions.

At low speeds in highly plastic soils, the non-driving wheels with MTs don't seem to clear any more than the A/Ts.

Not only that, they are an absolute pita for vehicles going in the other direction wrt stone throwing..

The Tvan has M+S (came with them) and the BT has Bridgestone 697s, having had 694s prior to the change over. None have been staked in 60 000 kms including over some pretty ordinary roads/tracks at lower tyre pressures. One (a 694) suffered a puncture from a dreaded Tek screw!

Cheers
Andrew
AnswerID: 596357

Follow Up By: gbc - Thursday, Feb 18, 2016 at 15:43

Thursday, Feb 18, 2016 at 15:43
I would have thought something like a plane tyre with bigger radial grooves would be the perfect trailer tyre. The grooves being for big lateral grip and little or no rolling resistance. Apart from larc tyres is there such a thing?
0
FollowupID: 865259

Reply By: Member - nick b - Thursday, Feb 18, 2016 at 21:36

Thursday, Feb 18, 2016 at 21:36
G,day : well i started off thinking much the same as others .... just for show !! but then...
One of the reasons for mud tyres is for better mud ,dirt etc clearing . so is it any different on
a trailer etc .... obviously you don't need it in the same way as on the driving wheel of a car but
i could see it helping in certain situations like slippery muddy roads etc .
and as others have stated the toughness of the off road tyre on a trailer bouncing around on
the back ...
But saying that i have just have all terrain tyres on my camper ...
Cheers Nick b
VKS 737 ( 0915 )

Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

AnswerID: 596373

Follow Up By: Australian Landscape Jewellery - Sunday, Feb 21, 2016 at 08:13

Sunday, Feb 21, 2016 at 08:13
I don't think muddies are any good at all on slippery roads (if we mean bitumen covered in something slippery rather than just mud.) I think muddies are useless for anything apart from mud. In mud they are great. They aren't good for sand. There road holding isn't as good as regular or AT tyres, They are noisy. The tread wears fast. They dont brake as well on regular roads.
I'd only have muddies on a vehicle if I very regularly travelled in serious mud type conditions and I'd accept that the extra bite they gave in those conditions was worth the negatives on regular roads when I was travelling to the mud playground. Maybe if I lived in the High country. Maybe if I lived in the Kimberlies on an unmade road area and I swapped to them for the wet season
So, I'd agree that they give a little extra clearance (when new) but in every other aspect I reckon muddies are a negative.
Mike
1
FollowupID: 865316

Follow Up By: Australian Landscape Jewellery - Sunday, Feb 21, 2016 at 11:45

Sunday, Feb 21, 2016 at 11:45
I'm not sure that mt have stronger sidewalls and if they do, do you really want them (unless you are in actual muddy conditions)? For highway and sand conditions you don't want stiff sidewalls. Extra tread depth is good for soft, wet conditions but again, it isn't necessarily a good thing for highway use. That extra depth just peels off. That's why high speed road tyres are not designed with thick treads. It actually doesn't add to tyre life (under highway conditions) The kind of tread pattern you need for highway use/handling and breaking is very different. IMHO. muddies should only be used in muddy conditions.
0
FollowupID: 865320

Follow Up By: Idler Chris - Sunday, Feb 21, 2016 at 13:13

Sunday, Feb 21, 2016 at 13:13
I get far fewer punctures with mud tyres in sandy conditions than with AT's. I am talking deserts here where there are sticks and not beaches. Also mud tyres with stronger sidewalls allow lower pressures in sand and so a bigger footprint which equals greater traction. It all depends where you go as to which is best for any particular person.
What other people think of me is none of my business.
Do unto others what you would have them do unto you.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 865325

Follow Up By: Australian Landscape Jewellery - Sunday, Feb 21, 2016 at 13:45

Sunday, Feb 21, 2016 at 13:45
The problem with mud tyres is their performance when you get them off mud. In Australia we generally travel longish distances on regular roads between play times. Ideally we would have several sets of tyres and swap them over for different road conditions. Mt are especially a problem on wet bitumen. The tread is just not designed to remove water fast , they dig in.
Respectfully, I doubt that stronger sidewalls gives better performance in sand. Strong sidewalls limit bagging rather than the other way around and its the bagging that gives the traction. Tyre failure at low pressures on sand comes from heat build up when they are driven on too fast for the inflation level and stronger sidewalls increase heat build up.
http://www.offroaders.com/tech/AT-MT-Tires/tire-tech.htm#Mud_Tires_offroaders
Mike
0
FollowupID: 865329

Follow Up By: Idler Chris - Sunday, Feb 21, 2016 at 14:09

Sunday, Feb 21, 2016 at 14:09
All tyres are a compromise it depends what you are doing. If you drive a lot of wet bitumen you don't have mud tyres. If you do a lot of desert work then they come into there own.
Strong sidewalls do not limit bagging. It just means that compared to an AT tyre you have to let out more air to achieve the same bagging and footprint. What it does mean that with the stronger walls to carry the weight of the vehicle you can go lower with the tyre presure and achieve a bigger footprint with a mud tyre.
As far as performance goes they are not a problem when you get them away from mud. Read the link in the last post. QUOTE "But when you look at the tread design of many mud tires, they generally perform well in other conditions such as on the rocks, in deeper snow, as well as in loose gravel and in the softer, constantly changing terrain of wooded trails."
What other people think of me is none of my business.
Do unto others what you would have them do unto you.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

1
FollowupID: 865334

Follow Up By: Australian Landscape Jewellery - Sunday, Feb 21, 2016 at 16:08

Sunday, Feb 21, 2016 at 16:08
Yes, the quote is taking about deep slushy stuff like snow, not just mud. That is very different to our bush conditions (high country and top end wet excepted). USA Woodland trails are very different to our bush tracks. I don't think you should be driving a lot on dry bitumen with mud tyres either. I think they are designed for places that have moths of snow and similar but we love them for the look. I used to live in Alice and did a lot of sand and track driving. I tried it with MT. How low you can go with tyres is rather more limited by ability to stay on a rim which decreases as you get lower pressures. If the tyre wall is strong enough for the weight of the vehicle for normal running, you can lower it until ready to roll off a rim for sand use, and if you get rim tyre locks you can go further. The issue of sidewall strength is usually discussed in terms of spiking with those favouring stronger sidewalls arguing it gives more resistance and those against arguing that the chances of spiking are decreases with less rigidity.I have no firm opinion on that as I have never had a sidewall spike with AT ot MT while travelling with low pressures at lower speeds. The one bad one I had was my own fault for being too lazy to increase tyre pressures when I sped up a little (not a great deal) for about a km of bitumen and it was pretty clear in that case that heat build up was the culprit. .
Cheers
Mike
0
FollowupID: 865338

Follow Up By: Member - nick b - Monday, Feb 22, 2016 at 16:02

Monday, Feb 22, 2016 at 16:02
Idler Chris : i think your right on the money " compromise "
I always have mud tyres on my work ute & i think there great .
the only negative for me is the extra noise .
I get good mileage out of them and very few flats .

so getting back to it , i don't see any negatives for the " OFF ROAD " camper trailer
more a bout preference and less about science .

mike's quote : I don't think muddies are any good at all on slippery roads (if we mean bitumen covered in something slippery rather than just mud.) I think muddies are useless for anything apart from mud . unquote :

you must be driving on roads different to me ......me, also a former alice resident .
Cheers Nick b
VKS 737 ( 0915 )

Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

1
FollowupID: 865374

Reply By: Idler Chris - Monday, Feb 22, 2016 at 13:10

Monday, Feb 22, 2016 at 13:10
Here is a video comparing Mud tyres with AT tyres. The presenter is an experienced 4WD driver who has made many videos about 4WD driving. His experience is the same as my own and agree with all that he has said.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaZQpS05QMs
What other people think of me is none of my business.
Do unto others what you would have them do unto you.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 596493

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Tuesday, Feb 23, 2016 at 00:09

Tuesday, Feb 23, 2016 at 00:09
Nothing about Caravans there Chris!
0
FollowupID: 865399

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (13)