Mud tyres on Caravans

Gday Chris,
My experience is that a good brand AT is no better and no worse than a good brand MT. But I suppose the muddies usually have an extra couple of mm tread. I'm starting to think that punctures are a thing of the past and all tyres are a lot better than they used to be. Having said that I'll get a few next trip!
But I've done about 8 trips into the GVD, and about a dozen into the Simpson and in total I've staked one tyre - that was on my second Madigan Line trip.
That's a lot different to what I had happen 15-30 years ago.
But the caravan tracks a lot wider than the Landcruiser .....maybe that makes it more prone to staking a tyre.

Phil,
Just get a set of Cooper's, punctures along with the tears will be back in a flash......

Haha - spot on Lynton - I've never owned Cooper tyres but the caravan we bought recently came with STT's. Just deciding whether to sell them now or just see how they go.

Its the heavier sidewalls that make it toughter.

Agree much stronger side walls for when you let the air out....Just because it says LT doesn't mean they are all the same.......


Cheers Andy

Can't make a blanket statement. There is a lot of variation between mud terrains - some have good strong sidewalls while others don't. And there's variation between sizes.
For example the older BFG Muddies had relatively thin sidewalls, which was largely fixed when they upgraded with the KM2. I've repaired more of those than any other muddie. The earlier Cooper STT were similar - thin sidewall.
But the Toyo M/T and the Goodyear MTR had great sidewalls from the start.
Also the aggressive sidewalls can make staking more likely.

Federal tyres had both 2 ply and 3 ply sidewalls available depending on size. I chose the Couragia A/T on the Tvan because it had 3 plies whereas the same size M/T was 2 ply.

One point no one's mentioned Phil, is the fact that if one was to "test" the ability of M/T tyres on their 'van on a sloppy, muddy road, they would be upsetting the authorities(Highways Dept/Main Roads) quite a bit. From memory it's 2,000 penalty points in Qld..........whatever a penalty point is?

Suppose one could always claim they were doing scientific research, for the caravan fraternity?

Bob

Ha - spot on Keith - that explains why the van came with black mags as well :-)

I just put money down on a camper which also comes on the ubiquitous goodride 265/75/16 mudders. My ute just happens to run the same size tyre so I'm not whinging too much. After hitting many manufacturers over the past two years, they have all said that if they are showing at a caravan/camping show and their product does not have independent suspension and mud tyres, half of their possible foot traffic simply walks straight past, no matter what.
It is the new 'norm'.
God only knows how my old trakshak made it offroad for 19 years on highway terrain coopers and leaf springs haha.

I would have thought something like a plane tyre with bigger radial grooves would be the perfect trailer tyre. The grooves being for big lateral grip and little or no rolling resistance. Apart from larc tyres is there such a thing?

I don't think muddies are any good at all on slippery roads (if we mean bitumen covered in something slippery rather than just mud.) I think muddies are useless for anything apart from mud. In mud they are great. They aren't good for sand. There road holding isn't as good as regular or AT tyres, They are noisy. The tread wears fast. They dont brake as well on regular roads.
I'd only have muddies on a vehicle if I very regularly travelled in serious mud type conditions and I'd accept that the extra bite they gave in those conditions was worth the negatives on regular roads when I was travelling to the mud playground. Maybe if I lived in the High country. Maybe if I lived in the Kimberlies on an unmade road area and I swapped to them for the wet season
So, I'd agree that they give a little extra clearance (when new) but in every other aspect I reckon muddies are a negative.
Mike

I'm not sure that mt have stronger sidewalls and if they do, do you really want them (unless you are in actual muddy conditions)? For highway and sand conditions you don't want stiff sidewalls. Extra tread depth is good for soft, wet conditions but again, it isn't necessarily a good thing for highway use. That extra depth just peels off. That's why high speed road tyres are not designed with thick treads. It actually doesn't add to tyre life (under highway conditions) The kind of tread pattern you need for highway use/handling and breaking is very different. IMHO. muddies should only be used in muddy conditions.

I get far fewer punctures with mud tyres in sandy conditions than with AT's. I am talking deserts here where there are sticks and not beaches. Also mud tyres with stronger sidewalls allow lower pressures in sand and so a bigger footprint which equals greater traction. It all depends where you go as to which is best for any particular person.

The problem with mud tyres is their performance when you get them off mud. In Australia we generally travel longish distances on regular roads between play times. Ideally we would have several sets of tyres and swap them over for different road conditions. Mt are especially a problem on wet bitumen. The tread is just not designed to remove water fast , they dig in.
Respectfully, I doubt that stronger sidewalls gives better performance in sand. Strong sidewalls limit bagging rather than the other way around and its the bagging that gives the traction. Tyre failure at low pressures on sand comes from heat build up when they are driven on too fast for the inflation level and stronger sidewalls increase heat build up.
http://www.offroaders.com/tech/AT-MT-Tires/tire-tech.htm#Mud_Tires_offroaders
Mike

All tyres are a compromise it depends what you are doing. If you drive a lot of wet bitumen you don't have mud tyres. If you do a lot of desert work then they come into there own.
Strong sidewalls do not limit bagging. It just means that compared to an AT tyre you have to let out more air to achieve the same bagging and footprint. What it does mean that with the stronger walls to carry the weight of the vehicle you can go lower with the tyre presure and achieve a bigger footprint with a mud tyre.
As far as performance goes they are not a problem when you get them away from mud. Read the link in the last post. QUOTE "But when you look at the tread design of many mud tires, they generally perform well in other conditions such as on the rocks, in deeper snow, as well as in loose gravel and in the softer, constantly changing terrain of wooded trails."

Yes, the quote is taking about deep slushy stuff like snow, not just mud. That is very different to our bush conditions (high country and top end wet excepted). USA Woodland trails are very different to our bush tracks. I don't think you should be driving a lot on dry bitumen with mud tyres either. I think they are designed for places that have moths of snow and similar but we love them for the look. I used to live in Alice and did a lot of sand and track driving. I tried it with MT. How low you can go with tyres is rather more limited by ability to stay on a rim which decreases as you get lower pressures. If the tyre wall is strong enough for the weight of the vehicle for normal running, you can lower it until ready to roll off a rim for sand use, and if you get rim tyre locks you can go further. The issue of sidewall strength is usually discussed in terms of spiking with those favouring stronger sidewalls arguing it gives more resistance and those against arguing that the chances of spiking are decreases with less rigidity.I have no firm opinion on that as I have never had a sidewall spike with AT ot MT while travelling with low pressures at lower speeds. The one bad one I had was my own fault for being too lazy to increase tyre pressures when I sped up a little (not a great deal) for about a km of bitumen and it was pretty clear in that case that heat build up was the culprit. .
Cheers
Mike

Idler Chris : i think your right on the money " compromise "
I always have mud tyres on my work ute & i think there great .
the only negative for me is the extra noise .
I get good mileage out of them and very few flats .

so getting back to it , i don't see any negatives for the " OFF ROAD " camper trailer
more a bout preference and less about science .

mike's quote : I don't think muddies are any good at all on slippery roads (if we mean bitumen covered in something slippery rather than just mud.) I think muddies are useless for anything apart from mud . unquote :

you must be driving on roads different to me ......me, also a former alice resident .

Nothing about Caravans there Chris!