Automated external defibrillator (AED)

Submitted: Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 12:17
ThreadID: 132179 Views:2681 Replies:9 FollowUps:12
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Having just completed a First Aid Course the most interesting fact to come out of the course was the stats on CPR that most people who are given CPR will not survive, however, if the person is treated with an automated external defibrillator within the first few minutes then the chances of survival are greatly increased.

As my wife and I are looking at doing a long term trip to places remote we looked at the prices of defibrillators to see if we could afford one as an extra insurance policy. Although the item is not cheap we were able to purchase a unit for just over $1500 delivered to our door.

The device comes in a zipped padded case complete with pads for both adults and children, has a five year warranty but you may need to replace the pads after carrying in the car for 2 years.

My reason for writing this is not to increase the sales but to let others know that AED's are down to less than the price of a set of 4WD tyres. If writing this post means that just one extra person carries one in their vehicle well it just may be my life you save.

The device I purchased was a Lifepoint Plus AED from this website. I have no affiliation with this company other than a satisfied customer.
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Reply By: Member -Pinko (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 16:56

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 16:56
Rondesron
Defibrilation is what it says defibrillation, stops the heart muscle from fibrillating by applying an electric shock.
Defibrillation only works when the heart is in a shockable rhythm.
If the patient is unconscious and pulseless the rhythm could be asytole (flatline) and not shockable.
IV drugs are used to 'excite' the heart into shockable rhythm and maybe convert to VF (shockable)
To be basic a defibrillator is not the be all.
Depending on how much damage the heart muscle has suffered to cause the arrest in the first place determines the outcome.
Having said this, cardiac arrest is caused by many other reasons.
The best of luck and happy travels.
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Reply By: Member - TonyV - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 18:16

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 18:16
There are varying figures as to the success of CPR.

The main issue is that only 44% of cardiac arrest victims get any treatment outside of a Hospital.
So if 10 to 16% of those survive it miles better that 100% that will not survive with no treatment.

Good on you for highlighting this and good luck with your trip.

from Queensland Government

quote:
"Various studies have found that initial in-hospital CPR success rates range from 16.8 to 44%. Long-term survival (discharge from hospital) rates range from 3.1 to 16.5%. An indication of overall CPR success rates if the arrest occurs in hospital appears in the table below:"
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Follow Up By: Member - ACD 1 - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 19:40

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 19:40
No disrespect to anyone - but survival statistics mean nothing...

If you can save the live of one person survives it is a good outcome.

We have both an AED and an Oxyboot (with a manual inflation bag) in the 4WD. I got them for the boat when we go diving but fortunately have never used them at sea. Have used the O2 at a couple of serious car accidents though

The good thing is I was able to write them for the farm - good old OSH.

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Reply By: Member - TonyV - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 19:57

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 19:57
I thought that's what I said on the 3rd line of my post...
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Follow Up By: Member - ACD 1 - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 22:16

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 22:16
Tony

Like I said "no disrespect to anyone". I'm not having a crack at you or anyone else.

I just believe if I can give one family, one child, one parent back their loved one - my life on this planet has not been wasted and I have had a purpose for being here.

Thank God I am an overachiever.

I have the ultimate respect for anyone who shares this philosophy.

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Reply By: mountainman - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 20:10

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 20:10
We have one at work
Acompany that employs over a 100people and major regional hospital is 40mins away
Good insurance
if only the batteries were kept charged ?
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Follow Up By: Member - rondesron - Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 02:07

Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 02:07
The batteries are good for 5 years. The device does inbuilt tests daily weekly and monthly and makes noises if you need to do something.
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Reply By: Bob Y. - Qld - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 20:16

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 20:16
Having been an active participant in 2 cases involving CPR, one a 2 year old boy and the other a 78 year old male, it is very distressing to all involved when the outcome is not the way it should be. In the latter case, there were up to 6 people sharing CPR duties, as well as a couple of highly qualified nurses working on him(with defibrillator & one of those manual air pump thingys).

Regardless of statistics, it's better to try for a good outcome, ie save a life, rather than do nothing and wonder over the following years whether, with your help, that life might have been saved.

Bob

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Follow Up By: Member - ACD 1 - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 22:25

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 22:25
Couldn't agree more Bob!

The reason we got the Defib and Oxyboot was because we lost a mate - at sea - after a diving accident.

Knowing what to do is great, doing it is hard, failing was traumatic.

Yes! I am a sore looser. But I hate letting the Barstard win!

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Reply By: Traveller61 - Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 08:26

Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 08:26
Good on you for thinking ahead and being prepared. I have also completed a First aid course with one of these. Some devices also act as an aid to tell you when to start and stop compressions ect ect. So have many more uses than people that have never used one may think . They are are brilliant bit of gear and are only getting cheaper all the time. Thank you for your post and you have now got me interested in purchasing an AED.
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Follow Up By: Member - rondesron - Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 08:51

Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 08:51
This model does give you instructions as to whether or not to do compressions or shock the patient. What I like is that you have to hit a button to shock and therefore can make sure all people are clear before the shock is delivered. Hopefully none of us will ever need to use the devices.
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Follow Up By: Traveller61 - Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 09:37

Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 09:37
These devices are only getting cheaper and smarter with each new model released. I suspect these will be a standard bit of kit for any remote traveller in the near future. Which can only be a good thing.
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Reply By: Echucan Bob - Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 14:06

Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 14:06
Until recently I was in charge of a rural emergency department, so I have seen many people who have received attempts at resuscitation. Over a five year period I'd say I saw two good outcomes from out of hospital resuscitation attempts, one was by a highly skilled ambo, and one was a bloke who collapsed in the car park outside emergency.

Unless you are close to skilled paramedic or hospital support, resuscitation and defibrillation are unlikely to save someone's life in a meaningful way (plenty end up brain dead). Its not just a case of hook up the jumper leads and all will be well.

Carrying a defibrillator on a remote outback trip makes little sense to me, unless it (falsely) gives the traveller peace of mind.

I'd concentrate my efforts on cardiovascular risk reduction - control of BP, cholesterol, diabetes, weight reduction, smoking cessation and perhaps anti-platelet treatment (aspirin). If you are at high risk of a cardiovascular event, you should adopt a more philosophical approach to dying in the outback, or stay close to high level medical support.

Bob

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Follow Up By: Member - ACD 1 - Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 22:22

Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 22:22
Gee! Thanks for clearing that up for me Bob.

Here I was thinking I might make a difference when I came across an accident.

If anyone is looking for a second hand AED and oxyboot I might sell you mine.

If you have an exercise bike or rowing machine for sale I would be interested. But I only want the fold up ones that I can fit in my Landcruiser.

Apparently this is what I need to help the old fella whose just collapsed on the beach where I'm fishing. "I know you can't breathe old son and your clutching at you chest, but you really need to do another 15 minutes at level 22"

Bob - you have just destroyed the Australian Resucitation Council, Surf Life Saving, St John's, Royal Life Saving and every other Emergency Service organisations training. Well done!

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Follow Up By: Member -Pinko (NSW) - Friday, Apr 22, 2016 at 07:23

Friday, Apr 22, 2016 at 07:23
Out of the hundreds of arrests I dealt with that had succesfull outcomes were witnessed electrocution and immediate cpr and defibrillation soon after that. And may be a few others.
And those that were already in the wagon being monitored.
Of those that receive all this treatment and 'wake up' the outcome is determined in the days following.
There are to many 'ifs"
We can't play God Anthony, we can only try.
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Follow Up By: Member - ACD 1 - Friday, Apr 22, 2016 at 23:39

Friday, Apr 22, 2016 at 23:39
Your right - we can't play God

But I would rather cry trying than let someone die without trying.

I can't believe that people with so called medical training/experience advocate not carrying an AED because it provides a false Peace of mind and using it would be a waste of time "Unless you are close to skilled paramedic or hospital support..."

I'm sure the WA bloke "saved" by a tradie who came across his accident and had a second hand AED in his ute would have a completely different opinion.

Perhaps you might look look into the faces of these people who have all been SAVED because someone took the time to use an AED and tell me they are a waste of time.

AED Survior Selfies

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Follow Up By: Echucan Bob - Saturday, Apr 23, 2016 at 22:54

Saturday, Apr 23, 2016 at 22:54
Anthony, I read the story. I don't know Innaloo but I am guessing its not so remote if an ambulance arrived two minutes later. AEDs are a great thing to have provided you have an ambulance two minutes away. They are a waste of money and space for the remote traveller.
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Follow Up By: Traveller61 - Sunday, Apr 24, 2016 at 15:28

Sunday, Apr 24, 2016 at 15:28
Bob, such a bad attitude to have. So basically your saying don't bother learning CPR because it wont work anyway. If there is a tiny chance of saving someone's life then we should always try. OK if your in the outback with help hours or days away it you have a much less chance of surviving but you do realise it can be used at home or kept in the car?
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Follow Up By: Echucan Bob - Monday, Apr 25, 2016 at 23:07

Monday, Apr 25, 2016 at 23:07
Traveller, I'm sorry you construe a dose of reality as "bad attitude". The OP said he purchased an AED as he was planning an extended remote trip. I maintain that without proximity to back up the AED is useless. He would be far better off focussing on prevention of a cardiovascular event. An AED would be of more value in the boot when you aren't doing your extended remote trip, but just tooling around in the 'burbs. Like the hi-lift jack, it is a costly waste of space.

Sadly, emotion often intervenes in medical decision making and common sense takes a back seat. This is probably part of the reason that we often throw about $100,000 at dying people in the last week of their life, when common sense says that there is no chance of any sort of quality of life even if they survive. Or why travellers venture into remote parts with $1500 AEDs on board, when $5 worth of aspirin would confer a greater benefit.
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Reply By: Member -Pinko (NSW) - Friday, Apr 22, 2016 at 12:10

Friday, Apr 22, 2016 at 12:10
Hi Rondesron
I'm sure you have read all the replies to your post.
I'd like to add something that is a little of topic as it relates to travellers that become unwell in an isolated envionment.
HF radio and the VKS network.
I know this device is priced in the vicinty of a portable defibrillator but in the case of an emergency it is priceless.24/7 it is available.
For example if you or your partner stumbles and falls and fractures a hip (#neck of femur) whether out bushwalking or as simple as falling out of the caravan door.
Can you lift your partner into a more comfortable position, probably not.
A selcal to the VKS duty controller will shortly have him/her on your radio.
The controller puts things into action to recover the injured person. They know where the air strips are on surrounding properties and where the closest assistance is. The RFDS is notified, Ambulance activated and police to recover your vehicle if the partner cannot drive.
And also as there are over 5000 probably more VKS network members all over Australia one may be camped just ten minutes away and be more than willing to assist with the situation, like help to make the patient more comfortable or help you pack up in preparation to move out.
An HF radio connected to a network is a most worthwhile extra insurance policy.
You have a nice rig to get you to those isolated and idilic places of which there are so many in our country.
Living is a journey,it depends on where you go !
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Reply By: Member - rondesron - Tuesday, Apr 26, 2016 at 13:00

Tuesday, Apr 26, 2016 at 13:00
Thanks for all your comments.
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