Wheel on roofrack.

Are ratchet straps good enough to tie down wheel on roofrack or should I adopt a bolt type setup.As a previous post had many replied of stuff flying off .I not want to kill anybody .My brothers girfriend died from a flying tyre ..
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Reply By: Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 16:45

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 16:45
I guess a bolt setup would be better if properly fitted. On a roof basket I used two ratchet straps because it seemed the obvious way to do it. On a 4 month trip they got pretty faded in the sun, so I guess they could be adversely affected strengthwise by UV. Maybe just a couple of long trips like that, then get new ones?

Cheers
FrankP

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Reply By: Baz - The Landy - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 17:02

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 17:02
LazyLux

As indicated to you in the other thread where you raised the question, a ratchet tie-down strap will do the job adequately and as demonstrated in the accompanying link, it has three points securing the tyre, not just one, which would be the case with a bolt.

A bolt won't be as convenient and if you think it through three points in a triangle over the tyre secured to a roof rack will provide greater security than a bolt in the middle...

Each time I travel with a spare on top, I always check the integrity of the strap by visually inspecting whenever I stop...

And always buy a quality product designed and rated for the job!

Spare tyre tie-down

Cheers, Baz - The landy
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Follow Up By: Member - Russler - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 18:24

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 18:24
Agree, +1 for the straps provided they are sufficiently load rated (I like to have a big, fat safety margin too)
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Reply By: RobAck - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 17:02

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 17:02
You can purchase a three strap tyre tie down from any decent 4wd shop or camping place. But make sure it comes from a reputable outlet. We use the just straps versions and have for around 10 years or so without a problem and over pretty rough terrain as well as long haul outback roads etc.

The 3 straps triangulate the tyre so the forces are better then just two straps
Rob
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 17:36

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 17:36
Here is the link to the "Just Straps" site where the triangular tyre tie down strap is shown.
This tyre restraint method is adequate for all but the most severe use.

Just Straps

Cheers, Ron.
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Reply By: The Explorer - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 17:25

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 17:25
Hi

I use the J Bolt Setup

Works fine and is not likely to fail under any normal circumstances.

Can't see why it is "less convenient" or less "secure" than other methods. It's easy to fit and going nowhere if installed correctly, each to their own.

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 18:19

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 18:19
Greg...

Nothing normal on those corrugated outback tracks as you will well know ;)

You are right to say, each to their own, but I must say that I am inclined to a view that a wheel fixed at three points to a roof rack, in a triangular arrangement, will be "more" secure than a J Bolt Set-up with a single-point of contact.

And I'm sure there will be someone with far more brains than me that can either prove or disprove my "rule of thumb" theory. Mrs Landy frequently reminds me, I'm often wrong, however always willing to toss out my experience (and opinion!) for discussion...

Of course, that isn't to say that the J Bolt Set-up isn't secure...under normal circumstances. And fair to say perhaps nothing will be "bullet proof".

On less convenient - whether it is a tie-down strap or J-Bolt securing a wheel to a roof rack, let's face it, there is nothing convenient with either if you need to retrieve it from the top of a vehicle...(unless you're Pop-Eye!)

Cheers, Baz
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 19:00

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 19:00
Hi

In the context of this discussion "corrugated outback tracks" would be the norm. This isn't the vintage car club and we are not talking about driving out to York on the bitumen to have some tea and scones :)

The J Bolt set up I have has a large "washer" that secures around the center hole of the rim, with the "J" underneath hooking around the roof rack cross bar (though I use a steel tube instead of the rail so I can position the tyre at the front of the rack).

I suppose you can call it a "single point of contact" but you probably need to take into consideration the area/distribution of contact as well.



I can assure you (under the assumption you have never used the same setup and are just making assumptions) it is VERY secure and works fine, has never come loose and couldn't see it failing..in fact the roof rack is probably more likely to fall off than the tyre.

There maybe some theoretical differences in how "secure" the various restraint methods are and maybe the "triangular arrangement" of the straps is in fact more "secure" than the J bolt...but at a guess I would say both ways are fine to use back in the real world which is where most people live.

At this moment in time getting a tyre on the roof and securing it isn't too inconvenient but can't see it getting any easier :)

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 19:26

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 19:26
Greg...


For a moderator you tend to come across a touch antagonistic...I've offered a view and opinion, that is what the forum is all about, sharing viewpoints and knowledge.

One of the key tenements of any forum is respect for others views!

I think we have both offered a viewpoint that others can ponder, but I see we are generally in agreement, both will most likely work adequately!

Baz - The Landy
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Follow Up By: Life Member - Duncan W (WA) - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 19:29

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 19:29
I have similar to Greg's and it works well.

I've also used ratchet straps and they can be problematic with slipping and getting a uniform tension. Also they don't like UV and dust.

Cheers

dUNC
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 20:05

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 20:05
?

Baz - your post is somewhat confusing (to me at least).

Can't see any difference between my replys and yours with respect to "sharing viewpoints and knowledge" nor do I think I have shown no "respect for others views".

As far as antagonism goes I suppose anyone that states something contrary to what another has stated can be regarded as being "antagonistic" if umbrance is taken at being corrected or challenged. If everyone got upset in these circumstances the forum would become dis-functional.

Fact that I am a moderator is irrelevant, I think. Bound by same rules as everyone.

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: Member - shane r1 - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 20:14

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 20:14
Don't know who's getting the snooty eat, Greg or Baz?!
Question for Baz tho, if one of the three points on the strap setup fails what happens?
Good discussion helps people make up their own mind
Cheers
Shane
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Follow Up By: rumpig - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 20:27

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 20:27
maybe the same question needs to be asked to Greg also...if the one point of his set was to fail, what happens?...i reckon i can guess the answers to both questions myself though...lol
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Follow Up By: mountainman - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 21:32

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 21:32
Ease up you old timers..
no argy bardgy.
us young folk tend to get sick of arguements

a one strap and the good old cable ties be enough

or some might want to triple strap it then bolt it, then cable tie it and duc tape it to the roof rack

then youve got to undue all your good work again

then the trouble of getting the tyre down.
without getting hurt or dirty
ooh the dilemma ;-)

Beats working
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 21:48

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 21:48
Crikey - will try to be as nice as possible..

Dear Rumpig

Hope your family is well.

Obviously if a single point of attachment (of any type) fails for whatever reason then the item previously secured will become unsecured. What happens then, who knows.

J bolt is (from what I can figure, after several thousands of kms and the nature of the item itself) very unlikely to fail under any circumstances (normal or abnormal) unless maybe if you forget to tighten the bolt up hard enough (doesn't have to be too hard by the way).

May the seed of your loins be fruitful in the belly of your woman.

Your obedient servant.

Greg - The Moderator.
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 23:08

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 23:08
-
I don't want to be antagonistic or antipathetic so I'll try to be pathetic, I'm good at that. lol

"One bolt" or "three hooks"? Take your pick.
But perhaps I may, in the most sincere manner, observe that the wing nut shown in Greg's photo looks rather fragile in that the thread is engaged by perhaps only two thread pitches due to the rather thin (3mm?) material of the tapped wing nut. Were it mine I would feel more comfortable if a standard hex nut was welded to the wing.
With a little effort it is not difficult to find some point of criticism in anything.

Trust I was sufficiently "pathetic"? lol
Oh, for the record I use a 3-leg ratchet strap. However I do have a pair of security cameras monitoring the roof rack with a 10 inch real time display on the dash incorporating motion sensing technology with alarms. Nah, only kidding.


Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Ron N - Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 23:40

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 at 23:40
Allan, I'd suggest that perhaps there is a standard hex nut welded to the underside of the "wing nut" in Gregs pic - you just can't see it in the pic.

My engineering would see the hex nut welded to the top of the "wing nut" to provide better support to the whole setup.

As always - every one of the above setups is only as good as the roof rack mounts, in the final wash-up!

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 00:00

Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 00:00
Have to agree with Allan on this one - his post is indeed "pathetic" (his words not mine :)

(Note: trying to be funny here, not antagonistic)

As Ron alluded to there is a hex nut under the "wings"



As indicated before, this setup, as is, works fine (at least for what I do). Baffled that there are "non believers".

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 05:39

Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 05:39
Hi Shane

I think the key is that whatever solution one uses is that you regularly check the integrity of the product and its mounting, much the same way you would any other component of the vehicle when travelling.

In the case of the strap, use a quality product to start with and prior to use check the webbing to ensure there is no fraying or cuts (discard if there are any) and daily check the security and tightness of the strap and the eyebolts to which it is attached.

By doing this you will most likely avoid a failure in the first instance.

And it is worth highlighting both of the products being discussed here are marketed by Rhino-Rack which have a good reputation for high quality products.

However, if there is concern on one over the other, or which is better given that either solution could be prone to failure, the best practice might be to use both to cover all bases, the total cost would be in the region of $80 for piece of mind – I’m sure “Murphy’s Law” would not be so unkind as to see a failure of both simultaneously…

I am a big fan of building failure redundancy into anything, especially where it can be easily achieved at an affordable cost. Perhaps the combination of both will provide a solution that the original question in this post addresses.

In fact, I've noted to purchase a J-Bolt to use in combination with the straps for when I next travel with a spare wheel on the roof rack, which is rare mind you. But for $29.95, why wouldn't I?

And my thanks to Greg - The Explorer for highlighting the product...

But to your original question, I’m sure you will be able to speculate as well as I or anyone else can on the potential outcomes of a strap failure, but given it is attached in a triangular fashion there would be a high risk of it dislodging from its mounting...

Cheers, Baz – The Landy
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 07:27

Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 07:27
-
Thanks Greg. Had I looked more carefully at your first photo I would have seen clearance around the bolt hole revealing that it was not a tapped hole. Oops.
However I do observe some rusting on the large washer. Tch, tch. (Insert obligatory lol here.)
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: LAZYLUX16 - Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 10:10

Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 10:10
Hey Baz I was thinking exactly that last night why not use both .I have got trucky straps but will add the bolt system too.cheers
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 10:21

Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 10:21
No worries Allan

Good to see some people can have a discussion and still maintain their sense of humour.

The "rust" is mainly our favourite red staining from dust (WA Goldfields and Pilbara)...rubs off, though there is some very minor dendritic corrosion (I made this term up :) . The parts of the J are all anodised - can't see them actually rusting/corroding to a point of causing issues in my lifetime (or several in fact).

I posted the wrong link to the whole setup last time (just the J Bolt)...here is the whole kit and caboodle

RHINO J BOLT WITH SPARE WHEEL HOLDER

Happy travels and keep on smiling.

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: Echucan Bob - Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 13:00

Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 13:00
The only time I lost a spare wheel was when a single 5/8" bolt fatigued and snapped. As a result a brand new Cooper ATT lies somewhere in Rudall River National Park.

At the moment my roof top spare is secured by an occy strap - it makes me drive more carefully!

Bob

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Follow Up By: LAZYLUX16 - Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 13:07

Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 13:07
Hey Echucan Bob I want to go Rudall River wondering any good info be appreciated ..Thinking going in May is that still too hot cheers .
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 13:10

Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 13:10
Wheel thieves would be chuffed to see that, Echucan Bob!

AFAIC, anything I utilise to attach spare wheels (on anything) has to be substantial enough to deter most thieves.

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 13:56

Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 13:56
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Hey Greg,..........."dendritic corrosion".......?? Love it!

Similarly, the independent functional principle must utilise and be interwoven with the evolution of specifications over a given time period, given the importance of recognising the value of, and the necessity for, the total system rationale.

And no, I did not just make that up. It was created by my 'Honeywell Buzzphrase Generator'. A very handy tool in circumstances such as this, but the only good thing I ever did get from Honeywell.
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 14:26

Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 14:26
Reading that hurts

Now leave me alone trying to write a report...within which I may use that phrase.

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: Member - shane r1 - Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 18:02

Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 18:02
Gday everyone
Just got home from a trip to Perth, and had a read of the continuing chat, very informative and entertaining. I've come away with some good ideas and had a lot of laughs too!
Hope none of us lose a spare wheel anytime soon, or get caught losing one anyway!
Cheers
Shane
Ps was a quick bike trip on my R1200GSA
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Follow Up By: desray (WA - Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 21:38

Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 21:38
You are ALL assuming the roof rack STAYS on the car as well. In an accident the weight of the wheel could pull the rack off the roof.
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 21:45

Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 21:45
Allan,
Your Honeywell Buzzphrase post has prompted me to find this

Confabulator

And repost it.

Cheers
FrankP

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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 21:59

Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 21:59
Hello Desray

I did state in one of my posts that "in fact the roof rack is probably more likely to fall off than the tyre"...so maybe not ALL are making assumptions. :)

Anyway, think the thread is about securing the tyre while driving around ..not what will happen in the case of an accident, so dont think its possible to draw any conclusions about who was making an assumption on what would fly of first in an accident, as it wasn't a point of discussion.

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Reply By: Member - Ups and Downs - Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 09:01

Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 09:01
Well, there's probably some on here that would have the bolt, and the straps, and 3 other methods as well. Would maybe fit a PLB to the wheel also.
Then they would get an engineers certificate, can't trust a bolt as it comes. The strap would need to be an Aust Std certified one of course.

And even then only travel at 15kph.
AnswerID: 598919

Follow Up By: mountainman - Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 19:02

Thursday, Apr 21, 2016 at 19:02
I likw your thinking.
Dont forget about my duc tape
and a decent wrap of race tape

ooh why dont we all just weld the damn thing to the roof rack

ooh and tek screw it for good measure

ooh and chain and padlock it

ooh and dont forget to cover it with the spare wheel cover

ooh now we need to stop the spare wheen cover coming off

lastly
nothing like a spare 7mtr rope and the good olde truckies not to finish it off

and some tie wire to finish off my master piece

you old timers be proud of my work ;-)

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Reply By: Life Member - Duncan W (WA) - Friday, Apr 22, 2016 at 10:11

Friday, Apr 22, 2016 at 10:11
This is what you need
Dunc
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Follow Up By: LAZYLUX16 - Friday, Apr 22, 2016 at 10:42

Friday, Apr 22, 2016 at 10:42
Actually thought of that as got a big roll of bubble wrap!!!
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Friday, Apr 22, 2016 at 13:20

Friday, Apr 22, 2016 at 13:20
Ha ha! What a Classic bunch of Bogans!

I've actually seen four blokes driving around with a mattress on the roof - with four arms hanging out the open windows, holding onto the mattress!!

The cops miss the best ones!!

Cheers, Ron.
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