Triton Double cab bent.

Submitted: Sunday, Jul 17, 2016 at 22:22
ThreadID: 133025 Views:28813 Replies:14 FollowUps:23
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Don't know any details...somewhere over East.

I do wonder if he had fitted air bags. Also looks like a lot of weight on the rear with those jerrycans....also we don't know what he had in the canopy.
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Reply By: 508 - Sunday, Jul 17, 2016 at 22:38

Sunday, Jul 17, 2016 at 22:38
what about the wheel carrier without the wheel on it, few kilos missing there.
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Reply By: Tim F3 - Sunday, Jul 17, 2016 at 22:51

Sunday, Jul 17, 2016 at 22:51
Just do a search on google etc for triton bent chassis...will keep you busy for hours..
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Follow Up By: Tim F3 - Monday, Jul 18, 2016 at 07:27

Monday, Jul 18, 2016 at 07:27
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Tuesday, Jul 19, 2016 at 14:32

Tuesday, Jul 19, 2016 at 14:32
What was the story with your mate's Triton, Tim?

Towing, overloaded or bit of both? Looks terrible, can really feel for him. We've got close family with a triton, hope they get a better run out of it than this.

Thanks,
Bob.
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Reply By: Paul E6 - Sunday, Jul 17, 2016 at 23:01

Sunday, Jul 17, 2016 at 23:01
Jerrycans and tyres alone wouldn't be enough. I would suspect he's towed something - which obviously now he can't.
It's a wonder how that buggy keeps a-Rollin.
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Reply By: Member - Rod N (QLD) - Monday, Jul 18, 2016 at 07:26

Monday, Jul 18, 2016 at 07:26
See recent thread 133019 here Bent Chassis
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Reply By: Batt's - Monday, Jul 18, 2016 at 12:56

Monday, Jul 18, 2016 at 12:56
It usually has nothing to do with air bags at all that is a misguided belief that has been spread around by a few who people who really don't know what they're talking about.
It's just the way people load or overload their vehicles especially the one's with a lot of body or tray that overhangs past the rear axle. It also is poor design from manufactures who consistently place the rear wheels at the front of the tray. Some people are unaware that you place weight behind the rear axle the force created by that item is greater than it would be if it was placed over the axle. There have been some GU patrols utes bend the same way especially when overloaded or loaded incorrectly and driven off road.
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Follow Up By: 508 - Monday, Jul 18, 2016 at 13:24

Monday, Jul 18, 2016 at 13:24
I'm sorry, but I think you will find it has a lot to do with air bags.
You will find when some owners discover when their vehicles are fully or over loaded and see the back end hanging near the ground with the axle sitting on the bump stop they think, "we can't drive around like this" so they may decide to remedy the situation by fitting airbags to compensate for the ride height. The air bag effectively becomes a raised bump stop.
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Follow Up By: Kazza055 - Monday, Jul 18, 2016 at 13:48

Monday, Jul 18, 2016 at 13:48
And once the car is level again he can continue to add more weight.
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Follow Up By: Batt's - Monday, Jul 18, 2016 at 13:58

Monday, Jul 18, 2016 at 13:58
No it has a lot to do with the miss use and understanding of what "load assisting airbags" are designed for and failing to use the correct springs to suit you load because it is a fact that people do not want to upgrade their springs because they fear having a harsh ride when the vehicle is empty, that is the point at where people get confused and fail to understand their reason for having them then the easiest thing to do is to blame them when things fail due to owner error. If used correctly on a vehicle that has also been load correctly they will serve you well for yrs without causing any damage to your vehicle.
I understand what your getting at but some people may interperate it as to be the fault of the airbags which it isn't.
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Follow Up By: Member - TonyV - Monday, Jul 18, 2016 at 17:43

Monday, Jul 18, 2016 at 17:43
I have to agree with Batt on this, people blame Air Bags not the buyer for the misuse or lack of understanding of the product.

TonyV

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Follow Up By: TomH - Monday, Jul 18, 2016 at 18:27

Monday, Jul 18, 2016 at 18:27
Well firstly it is the poor design of dual cab vehyicles with almost all of the load space almost cantilevered from above the axle. People load them to the hilt and then add passengers.
The ute then sags badly so owners say better put some airbags under that.

It then excerbates the problem as the chassis has been designed to have 2 load points at each end of a leaf spring. By putting airbags in the centre of the spring it has effectively put all the weight on one point of the chassis and made that the pivot point for the excessive weight thrashing up and down above it. Any wonder that it gives up and breaks, usually at that point, or as in the pictures of the one with the slideon at a point further forward simply by the weight hanging off the tail with no support.

Common sense that very uncommon thing would dictate that it is a problem just waiting to do its worst.

The best solution would be to make dual cabs with an extended wheelbase to get the axle at least under the centre of the load spce or as in a truck amost at the rear of the vehicle. Wont hold my breath.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Monday, Jul 18, 2016 at 20:28

Monday, Jul 18, 2016 at 20:28
I agree with what Tom has said. The manufacturers have taken their standard wheelbase utes added a dual cab and hung the load area behind that. Most of it behind the rear axle.
Then the purchaser loads it up to and in a lot of cases beyond it's carrying capacity.
To exacerbate that problem a lot of us then hang a caravan on behind with anything up to 350 kg ball weight.

OMG, the arse end is dragging on the ground. (:=0)

"Someone" then advises them that having the rear leaf springs beefed up will shake their fillings out if they don't drive around with maximum load on board at all times.
Air bags are the answer. So Joe Average finds that pumping up the bags basically levels his pride and joy back to it's former ride height.
Unfortunately that doesn't do diddly squat for the fact that 90% of his payload is still happily bouncing up and down behind the rear axle and a goodly part of that load is now being born by an area of the chassis that was never designed for the job.

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: splits - Monday, Jul 18, 2016 at 21:53

Monday, Jul 18, 2016 at 21:53
Batt's
You can fit air bags, heavier springs or even blocks of wood between the chassis and the axle to lift a sagging rear end and it won't make any difference. The chassis is still at risk if there is too much heavy material too far back behind the axle.

Look at this extreme example. Hook the bucket of a large back hoe over the tow ball and push it down to the ground. The chassis would break but assume it doesn't.The springs would compress, the whole car would pivot on the rear axle bearings and the front wheels would lift off the ground. Now install heavier springs and do it again.The springs will still compress, the car will still pivot on the axle bearings and the front wheels will still lift off the ground.

Heavier springs or air bags can not support the far end of the chassis. It is sticking out the back like a plank on the side of a pirate ship. It has been designed to take a certain amount of flexing that will be caused by the correct loads but give it too much and it will eventually break.

I think from memory this model Triton has a maximum carrying capacity of 930 kg. If you fill it with about 480 kg of people in the five seats, about 70 kg of fuel in the tank and the remaining 380 kg in the back with the heaviest items as far forward as possible, it will be fully loaded but the rear end will not be sagging.

The rear springs will be flat though. They are supposed to be so the roll understeer stability assisting feature of the rear suspension will work in corners.

That is how a dual cab is supposed to be loaded. You can't ignore the fact that those five seats are major load bearing areas. If you can't fill them to the maximum then you can't put the rest of its carrying capacity out the back. You have to accept the fact that you can't fully load the car without taking it outside its design limits.

If that weight distribution does not suit some owners then too bad. I am not aware of any cars that have adjustable locations for suspensions, engines, bodies or whatever so they can be altered to suit whatever the owner wants to do with them.

This particular car may have bent its chassis with just the things hanging off the back. Once again going from memory I think the maximum tow ball weight is 270 kg. Many manufacturers, mine included, say a WDH must be used for any weight above half the maximum. If Mitsubishi says that then those four jerries, the wheel and the carrier would weigh more than half the ball weight. Their location places them directly over the tow ball so the weight might as well be on it.

Of course when you are not towing anything you can't use a WDH so those things alone assisted by whatever is inside the tub right at the back could have caused the damage if the roads it has been driven on were rough enough.
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Follow Up By: tony_j - Monday, Jul 18, 2016 at 23:34

Monday, Jul 18, 2016 at 23:34
So all you people putting the blame on air bags for bending dual cab chassis, what do you blame when air bags have NOT been fitted? I have personally seen bent chassis on D40s, as well as other makes, one D40 being the son-in-laws, where air bags were not fitted.
Air bags are an assist item, not a cure for poorly loaded/overloaded vehicles or poorly designed vehicles. The current breed of dual cabs that claim to be able to tow 3.5t and carry x amount of weight - rubbish!
People need to learn to load their vehicles (and caravans/trailers) correctly AND within the specs. And yes the manufacturers should share part of the blame for giving the impression that their vehicles are capable of things that they clearly not.
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Follow Up By: Batt's - Monday, Jul 18, 2016 at 23:35

Monday, Jul 18, 2016 at 23:35
Yes splits I sort of already said something similar to that but used a lot less words but others may gain something from it.
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Follow Up By: Batt's - Monday, Jul 18, 2016 at 23:59

Monday, Jul 18, 2016 at 23:59
Unfortunately tony i lots of people see pics like this and don't realise the chassis has bent in front of the spring mounts they jump on the bandwagon and blame airbags which haven't even been fitted. That's why I usually respond just to defend air bags without pointing out where the chassis has been bent hoping they will pick up on that themselves but most don't it takes a while to sink in it's usually only the odd person like yourself that can see what really caused the problem.
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Follow Up By: tony_j - Tuesday, Jul 19, 2016 at 00:13

Tuesday, Jul 19, 2016 at 00:13
" it's usually only the odd person like yourself " Gee Batts, I'm 'odd' ? :) :)
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Follow Up By: Batt's - Tuesday, Jul 19, 2016 at 02:14

Tuesday, Jul 19, 2016 at 02:14
Were all a bit odd in one way or another lol
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Follow Up By: splits - Tuesday, Jul 19, 2016 at 11:44

Tuesday, Jul 19, 2016 at 11:44
"The current breed of dual cabs that claim to be able to tow 3.5t and carry x amount of weight - rubbish!"


I am not so sure about that tony i. They will tow a 3.5t fifth wheeler without any problems. They will tow a 3.5t dog trailer with its 20 to 30kg ball weight with ease but 3.5t caravan is stretching things a bit. Even after sorting out the ball weight with a WDH or a very light load in the rear, a van that size is quite capable of throwing a car of that size and weight out of the way in seconds if something goes wrong.

As I have said before, the manufacturers don't claim it will tow anything that happens to weigh the maximum. They just list a maximum possible weight.

Owners have to sit back and think and don't let the desire to own a particular car over ride common sense.

As for carrying their maximum weight: how many owners consider the weight in the seats? That is where the problem lies in so many cases. The owners go by the maximum weight but start loading with far too little up front.

I don't blame air bags entirely but they do make a difference. I have seen Tritons bent with and without them. Those with them compress the lower flange of the chassis just in front of the bags. Those with out them stretch the top flange of the chassis near the rear end of the cabin. A crack appears across the top and spreads down the sides.

Which way is more likely to damage the chassis first is a good question and best left to chassis engineers.



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Reply By: Member - 8111COLIN - Tuesday, Jul 19, 2016 at 12:02

Tuesday, Jul 19, 2016 at 12:02
Well having owned a panel shop for 30 years , and had to repair some of these cars and total loss them i can tell you that putting air bags on will definitly speed up the bending chassis process , i have just written a blurb the day before yesterday about this on another post and people still won't believe that air bags cause this .

I have also seen these utes bent and completely broken in half and all that is holding it together is the hand brake cable .
I mentioned also that i have seen a Triton with air bags bent so badly the owner decided to drive off with the Tail shaft grinding it's way into the gear box due to the chassis being so much shorter when bent .

I have repaired only a couple of these utes , mostly they are total losses .
One other Triton was a Single cab Triton bent upwards at the rear , the tub was rubbing on the cabbin , the driver was going over a rough track the rear cam up and landed hard .

If the proper springs are used for the correct amount of weight , all should be ok .
Leaf springs spread the weight evenly , as someone else said an air bag is ridgid and becomes a hinging point for the chassis to bend .

Tritons are not strong enough for big weights they are the bottom end 4x4 market and you get what you pay for .

Having said that i have seen a Navara ute broken due to a home made camper cabin set up . and of course air bags were fitted .
This was repairable however not covered by insurance , thats another discussion again .

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Reply By: Bob Y. - Qld - Tuesday, Jul 19, 2016 at 14:27

Tuesday, Jul 19, 2016 at 14:27
And as we ponder the pitfalls of overloaded Tritons, along comes an email from Superior Engineering

Bob

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Follow Up By: Batt's - Tuesday, Jul 19, 2016 at 16:34

Tuesday, Jul 19, 2016 at 16:34
Another band aid fix that triton owners and Mitsubishi will be happy with instead of owners putting pressure on the car manufacturer to build a vehicle with a decent chassis in the first place.

Also there could be a good business opportunity for someone to start teaching people how to correctly load a twin cab when going off road or how to purchase a vehicle that is capable of carrying all their gear.
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Reply By: RobMac (QLD_Member) - Tuesday, Jul 19, 2016 at 18:04

Tuesday, Jul 19, 2016 at 18:04
We were staying at the local Caravan Park in Tibooburra 2 weeks ago and I kept walking past this Rodeo D/Cab that was towing a fairly long Hard Floor Campertrailer on my way to the showers and to look at it, it also definitely had a bent chassis. Not sure if the owner realised it or not....
Cheers..... RobM
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Follow Up By: splits - Tuesday, Jul 19, 2016 at 19:23

Tuesday, Jul 19, 2016 at 19:23
There is only one thing wrong with that Superior Engineering kit and that is the last bent Triton that I saw in the bush did not have air bags and was bent in front of the area that the kit covers.
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Reply By: Tomdej - Tuesday, Jul 19, 2016 at 19:48

Tuesday, Jul 19, 2016 at 19:48
Specialised Vehicles in Orangeville, Sydney, and Creative Conversions in Brisbane both offer chassis extensions that reinforce the chassis properly and place the wheels under the tray rather than in front of the tray. The Triton is more susceptible to bending as it has the shortest wheelbase of the utes. Triton has a wheelbase of 3000mm while other utes are 3200mm. Extend the chassis, put on an alloy tray, as the tub won't fit any more, and you should have fewer issues. The cost of extending and reinforcing, around 5000 to 6000.
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Follow Up By: Batt's - Tuesday, Jul 19, 2016 at 20:00

Tuesday, Jul 19, 2016 at 20:00
It's a lot cheaper than the alternative happening if you plan on loading up and heading out bush you sacrifice some turning circle and ramp over but you'll get home in one piece.
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Reply By: Hoyks - Tuesday, Jul 19, 2016 at 20:37

Tuesday, Jul 19, 2016 at 20:37
When the modern shape Triton was 1st released it had the shortest tray in the class. It probably lost sales due to this, so when the design was revised they had extended it by about a foot.

I think in this case the sales and advertising over-ruled the original design team and the thing was redesigned as a result. That extra leverage probably ensured a lot more failures than the 1st series would have seen.


I have a BT50 dual cab, before that I had a Courier extra cab. A few times the Courier hauled home a 1000kg bag of fertilizer. The little 2.5L diesel struggled, but the 1000kg bag fitted over and forward of the rear axle, so the weight was distributed through the chassis and partially to the front wheels.

The BT 50 on the other hand, I went to pick up some concrete sleepers. 1025kg according to the invoice. According to the handbook my BT can carry 1125kg, so just out of interest I had the lot put onto the back. The lifted constant 130kg load suspension rapidly sank to close to the bump stops and the headlights would be good only for spotting possums, rather than roos.
The BT has the rear wheels under the tray, rather than at the forward edge, but still the load was over the wheels and aft of the wheels. Hitting a bump would have seen the back sinking to the bump stops and trying to lever the front up. This would put huge loads through the chassis. Add on a trailer and a dip in the road and it is a recipe for disaster. It has the potential to bend where the chassis is being bent over the axle, or around where there are stresses induced by the welding on of the brackets for the leaf springs.

In the end I came home with 600kg and with the more powerful engine, I hardly knew it was there. You are tempted to keep hauling more because you can, they pull it easily, even when you probably shouldn't.
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Follow Up By: Batt's - Wednesday, Jul 20, 2016 at 10:14

Wednesday, Jul 20, 2016 at 10:14
And people wonder why their chassis bend.
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Reply By: JR - Wednesday, Jul 20, 2016 at 09:27

Wednesday, Jul 20, 2016 at 09:27
The core problem is that vehicles are rated to a weight spread evenly in the vehicle.
For a dual cab that places it mainly in the back seats, not the tray.
AnswerID: 602576

Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Wednesday, Jul 20, 2016 at 11:01

Wednesday, Jul 20, 2016 at 11:01
Agreed. Don't load too much in the tub of a twin cab of any make, put as much in the rear seat area as you can. The rear seas in the Navaras fold forward to allow you to do just that.
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Follow Up By: rumpig - Wednesday, Jul 20, 2016 at 11:52

Wednesday, Jul 20, 2016 at 11:52
So long as you secure that stuff inside the vehicle it's a good idea, i would hate to wear it if involved in an accident.
I decided to shorten the tray on my dual cab Landcruiser by 150mm from the normal 1800mm long, and mount the spare tyre inside the canopy on the front wall, that way I don't have the weight of spare tyres hanging on the very back of the vehicle. Fridge upfront on one side, spare tyre the other...keeps the weight forward over the rear wheels and light stuff is packed in the area that hangs past the wheels.
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Follow Up By: JR - Wednesday, Jul 20, 2016 at 12:37

Wednesday, Jul 20, 2016 at 12:37
People should choose a single cab more often.
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Follow Up By: Member - Sanantone - Wednesday, Jul 20, 2016 at 16:18

Wednesday, Jul 20, 2016 at 16:18
I towed a caravan around Australia for 10 months with a Triton ute, with no suspension/chassis problems. I did add an extra leaf to the rear springs, I put a fair bit of gear in the tub, with the heavier stuff on the back wall, though nowhere near what some of the photo's are showing, did quite a few tracks, some in excess of 600km's of rugged track, didn't drive crazy and took care to balance the C'van. It was the biggest fight me & the wife had, she seen open space in the van & wanted to fill it:)
Tony
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Reply By: Outnabout.. - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 10:27

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 10:27
As stated before Air bags do not cause it but they certainly speed the process up.
Overloading by itself also does not cause it.
What breaks them is severe hitting of the bump stops.
Obviously if the vehicle is overloaded then the distance between stop and chassis is greatly reduced. Add to the overloaded vehicle if you then tow say a camper then the fulcrum effect of the trailer and bottoming out of the dual cab will be a sure recipe for disaster.
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Reply By: Sigmund - Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 11:19

Friday, Jul 22, 2016 at 11:19
In the field of health there's not often just a single cause of an illness. We talk about proximal causes - the last cause and effect link - and distal ones which are influences back up in the causal chain.

Same goes for vehicle crashes. There's a chain of events.

Same goes for bent chassis.

One of the factors is the different forces involved offroad as against on. Another is time - the steel weakening. The chassis will have been designed on the basis of assumptions about both of these. Go outside those and all bets are off.
AnswerID: 602642

Reply By: Member - Ray C11 - Sunday, Jul 24, 2016 at 13:22

Sunday, Jul 24, 2016 at 13:22
I think Sigmund hit the nail on the head.
We just came back from a 4 week trip, where I bent my mk triton chassis.
I did it in the Gunbarrell hwy, going too fast,hitting a dip, towing camper.
I have airbags on the rear. My damage is no where as bad as the ones pictured.
I think mine is bent behind the air bag, but as it is not obvious I cant be sure.

As I live remote wa. I will have to send it to Perth for repairs.


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