Changing our tow vehicle.

Submitted: Wednesday, Oct 26, 2016 at 17:38
ThreadID: 133668 Views:3031 Replies:9 FollowUps:11
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We have a 1999 Pajero Exceed. It's a V6, 3.5ltr, Petrol with nearly 250,000 on the clock. We tow a Kimberly Kamper. Because of the age of the Pajero we are going to replace it. I have been looking on line for a used Pajero or Prado from about 2011 with roughly 100,000 on the clock. Nearly all these advertised 4X4s are 4 cylinder, 3.0 or 3.2 ltr turbo intercooled diesel. (Mind you I don't understand what these figures mean but I can see a V6 engine is bigger than a 4 cylinder). If we buy one of these 4 cylinder, 3.0 ltr turbo intercooled vehicles what sort of power are we going to have? And is the engine big enough to comfortably pull the Kimberly?
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Reply By: Ron A - Wednesday, Oct 26, 2016 at 17:41

Wednesday, Oct 26, 2016 at 17:41
Our 2007 Pajero 3.2 Diesel Auto comfortably tows our TVan. Would imagine the Prado 3.o Diesel would be similar.
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Follow Up By: 24t - Wednesday, Oct 26, 2016 at 17:54

Wednesday, Oct 26, 2016 at 17:54
WOW! Ron how quick are you? Thanks.
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Reply By: Sigmund - Wednesday, Oct 26, 2016 at 18:00

Wednesday, Oct 26, 2016 at 18:00
What weight's the KK fully loaded?
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Follow Up By: 24t - Wednesday, Oct 26, 2016 at 19:59

Wednesday, Oct 26, 2016 at 19:59
Roughly 1.6
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Reply By: The Bantam - Wednesday, Oct 26, 2016 at 18:31

Wednesday, Oct 26, 2016 at 18:31
None of the 4 cylinders will come close to a fuel injected V6.

A fuel injected petrol V6 will have 50% more power than a fuel injected petrol 4 cylinder ... that is pluss or minus piddling amounts.

anything fuel injected will have 10 to 15% more power than the same motor with a carby and it will be more drivable and economical.

Pretty much all the 4 cylinder 2.7 ish litre fuel injected motors make more power than all the 3 litre turbo diesels ... even the latest ones.

Driving a diesel .... any diesel, is different to driving a petrol, that does not make either better.

If a diesel is more economical ...... that is because it simply does not make as much power.

At one time diesel had significant cost of ownership advantages over petrol ...... that is no longer true ..... diesel is no longer 2/3 the price of petrol and diesel no longer has maintenence advantages over pertol.

Diesel costs about twice petrol in oil changes

If the Pajero is doing the job, in good condition, not costing you and running well ....... keep it you will never save money buying a new vehicle.

cheers
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Follow Up By: gbc - Wednesday, Oct 26, 2016 at 19:07

Wednesday, Oct 26, 2016 at 19:07
127 kW and 410nm in the Prado is hardly going to be troubled by the 130 kW 301nm that the 1999 v6 Pajero managed. I'd guess the Prado would be quicker by some margin off the mark towing the Kimberley. He's upgrading because the Pajero is old, not to save money.
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Wednesday, Oct 26, 2016 at 19:10

Wednesday, Oct 26, 2016 at 19:10
None of that gels with my experience of moving from 3.3 litre v6 petrol motor to a 2.2 4 cylinder crd motor. I'll take the diesel any day. Coming up to 300k on the 2.2 and haven't touched the motor in 8 years from new. Services every 12k @ around $300, pretty much what I was charged for the petrol car taking into account it was over 8 years ago. The little diesel has 400nm torque and tows better than the petrol did and uses just over half the fuel. Not towing, I used get around 550kms to a 65 litre tank on petrol, I get nearly 900kms to 65 litres on diesel. That's my summary over nearly 20 years in both types of cars. The diesel could crap itself tomorrow and I would buy another one. It's paid its dues.
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Oct 26, 2016 at 20:09

Wednesday, Oct 26, 2016 at 20:09
Yeah, nothing to do with power - we have 2 turbo diesels and just love the grunt. Lots of torque low down. Pulls like a bull in springtime!
Landcruiser servicing is every 10,000k and VW is every 15000k so no different to a petrol, and both use cartridge oil and fuel filters so cheap on parts.
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Wednesday, Oct 26, 2016 at 23:05

Wednesday, Oct 26, 2016 at 23:05
You fellas need to get ya figures right and comapre apples with apples.

the 3.5 litre v6 in the Pajero made 150 to 160KW depending on what model.

The earler Mitsubishi motors where known to be a bit thursty.

If you don't think it has anything to do with power you are kidding yourself ..... people often bang on about torque and towing ....... it always ... always comes down to power.

Of course a diesel has low down torque ...... because they simply don't rev and makes bugger all power after 3500 4000 RPM ..... ya petrol motor still have 1500 2000 rpm to go and still not peaked out.

ya gona pay more for oil and more for filters on diesels ...... they mostly hold a lot more oil and the filters are twice the price.

I've see people itemize the costs ....... swings and roundabouts ..... diesel in the same model does not work out significantly cheaper than petrol.

You also have to burn a lot of fuel to cover the cost of a new vehicle.

It depends on what your expectations are ...... no doubt a diesel will tow.

cheers


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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Wednesday, Oct 26, 2016 at 23:46

Wednesday, Oct 26, 2016 at 23:46
They don't seem to make petrol trucks and semi's anymore, they're all diesel because they have to pull stuff and use less fuel doing it. That means high torque at lower engine revs. They don't make many diesel race cars because they have to accelerate quickly and travel fast. That means more power at higher engine revs. The only Jap diesels I would buy are Isuzu or Mitsubishi. These pages seem to be loaded with problems concerning Nissan and Toyota crd's. I'd rather have a petrol than a non crd because the old diesels go too slow, need too much servicing and use too much fuel. The Pajero 3.2 crd seems fairly bullet proof with decent power, torque and fuel economy. I haven't noticed any horror stories and they've been around a while now.
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Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Thursday, Oct 27, 2016 at 07:35

Thursday, Oct 27, 2016 at 07:35
Big difference between power and torque. Torque is what you require for towing as it isn't a drag race to the next set of lights. The little diesels will have around 120nm more torque than your petrol engine.

The newer pajeros have a pretty good record as Micheal H9 says.

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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Friday, Oct 28, 2016 at 12:37

Friday, Oct 28, 2016 at 12:37
Any comparisons to large diesel trucks are irrelivent ....... none of our cars have 10 and 12 litre motors, none of them have 15 and 20 speed gearboxes.

Diesel truck motors are large heavy and make small amounts of power for their engine capacity size and weight.

The big difference between diesel truck engines and all car engines is their ability to produce full power for extended periods, a large portion of that comes down to the engines ability to cool it's self

Diesels also do not vary greatly between being driven unladen and fully laden in both progress on the road and fuel consumption ...... Diesels are most economical fully laden and driven hard. ...... in fact diesels respond poorly to being babied and run lightly laden

Petrol engines on the other hand are smaller and lighter for a given power output, respond very well to being lightly loaded, or light throttle application.

There is no "difference" between torque and power .......... nothing moves without power ....... you can have all the torque in the world and nothing moves.

It always and every time, comes down to power ....... if you want progress along the road power is required.

put crudely but correctly power = torque X speed

With two engines of the same power, the slower reving machine will always have more torque ...... "Ya canna change the laws of physics, Jim"

The fact that one vehicle or engine has more or less torque does not make it better or worse.

There are a lot of people who are accustomed to towing with large slow rev'ing engines ..... a lot of those are also accustomed to towing with automatic gearboxes.

Those people will always favour a slow rev'ing high torque engine.
These same people will complain that small high rev'ing engines with plenty of power and capacity are gutless and unsuitable for towing.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

I own two near identical vehicles .... one diesel and one petrol ........ both have their advantages ...... but they most certainly require a different driving style.

The petrol makes a lot more power than the diesel.
The diesel it could be argued has a more relaxed driving style ...... no point getting excited, nothing will make it faster than keeping it in its power band.

Let me tell you while the diesel is good at producing a consistent speed and it will chugg up any hill....... BUT driven correctly the petrol vehicle will get its self and whatever load up a hill faster than the diesel .......

I pretty much overtake very little on the highway in the diesel under any load, the petrol on the other hand has the power and the revs to make safe overtaking with a trailer a reasonable proposition.

Pretty much all the modern petrol motors ( particularly the variable valve timing motors) make a lot of low end torque and are very tractable at low RPM.

The practical driving differences between diesel and petrol get less and less.

The driving style IS different.

cheers
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Friday, Oct 28, 2016 at 19:55

Friday, Oct 28, 2016 at 19:55
All I can say to that is you must be driving an old style diesel. Sure, I'd take a petrol over one of them, no contest. But I'd take my little crd over any v6 petrol any day. You need to take a decent deisel for a good drive, not some old banger that belongs in a tractor. :-)
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Reply By: TerraFirma - Wednesday, Oct 26, 2016 at 20:07

Wednesday, Oct 26, 2016 at 20:07
Pity you haven't mentioned the fuel economy figures from the Pajero? The Turbo Diesel engines although smaller make plenty of torque which is what you need when towing. The other car to consider is the new Toyota Fortuner which is a wagon with all the new Hilux running gear. They will tow over 3 tonnes. I would expect you to get better fuel economy whilst towing also. The Kimberley is not a large camper to tow so any medium/large sized 4WD's will do the job. Diesel 4WD's are holding their resale value far better than anything petrol.
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Follow Up By: 24t - Thursday, Oct 27, 2016 at 07:40

Thursday, Oct 27, 2016 at 07:40
We really only use the Pajero when we go away and it uses 14 ltrs
per 100km
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Reply By: McLaren3030 - Thursday, Oct 27, 2016 at 07:49

Thursday, Oct 27, 2016 at 07:49
You can't beat the grunt of a twin turbo V8 diesel. Plenty of pulling power at low revs, plus the twin turbo makes Highway driving a breeze. Landcuiser 200 series will take your Kimberley anywhere you want to go. They are also very economical, services every 10,000 kms.
Macca.

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Reply By: Keir & Marg - Thursday, Oct 27, 2016 at 12:27

Thursday, Oct 27, 2016 at 12:27
We have a 2008 Pajero Exceed with the 3.2L diesel engine and regularly tow our Penguin Outback which is about 1.400 tonnes. Not towing, the Exceed gets about 9.5L/100km on the highway, and about 11.7L/100km around town. It is a very comfortable and capable vehicle, and, for us as ex-LR owners, very reliable!! I'd have another one in a heartbeat, but this one with 250,00km on the clock is fine. Other people have driven it and couldn't believe it was a diesel; it really gets along.
Towing we get 13-14L/100km depending on the topography and the headwinds, but it very capably pulls 1.4 tonnes with ease.
Servicing is a bit pricey, with the synthetic oil being about $90! The main thing is to get an aftermarket fuel filter and water trap fitted to protect the injection system, because OEM injectors are about $750 each, so a load of bad fuel can cost you $5k
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Reply By: Member - Phil 'n Jill (WA) - Thursday, Oct 27, 2016 at 12:40

Thursday, Oct 27, 2016 at 12:40
Keeping in mind the original question - If we buy one of these 4 cylinder, 3.0 ltr turbo intercooled vehicles what sort of power are we going to have? And is the engine big enough to comfortably pull the Kimberly?'

It has been my experience that the Pajero 3.2 turbo diesel will romp it in.

We are on our second used Pajero 3.2 and tow a 2.5 tonne van with ease.

We started with a camper van in 2008 then graduated to a 20ft Supreme and now a 21 ft Royal Flair.

The NW model is more economical than the NP model and I would expect your van would be a snap for that particular vehicle.

Happy towing.

Regards - Phil
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Reply By: Frank P (NSW) - Thursday, Oct 27, 2016 at 14:10

Thursday, Oct 27, 2016 at 14:10
For 7 years I towed a 2.2 tonne vane with a 2007 3.0 litre crd Prado with no problems whatsoever. About 14 l/100k on highway with van, 11 without. High country touring, about 18. It worked pretty hard on the big hills, but was adequate.

By 2011 all the reported injector problems had been worked out, so I'd have no hesitation recommending a 2011 diesel Prado.

A diesel Pajero of similar vintage will give similar results, I think.

When buying the Prado we chose it over the Pajero only because we thought the NVH was better. Mechanically, model for model, the Pajero might be a better buy with the extra fruit you get for the money.
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Reply By: Member - Mark (Tamworth NSW) - Friday, Oct 28, 2016 at 07:11

Friday, Oct 28, 2016 at 07:11
I had a V6 Pajero petrol (same engine as you had) for 200 000km. I still tow a 1.6T Kimberly Kamper, I am, now 400 000km down the track with my second Pajero diesel, I think I'm in a position to respond to your specific question.
If the petrol V6 was still available and was available for $5000 less than the Paj diesel, I still wouldn't buy it!
Just go for a test drive and you will see why. I get 8.6L/100km on a 400km run to Sydney @ 100km/hr (not towing), if towing the KK it adds 25%. I didn't notice any change in service costs (though the oil costs more than a bottle of good wine per litre) as service intervals are 15000km.
Yesterday I did a 600km involving a couple of hundred kms of dirt roads which chew fuel more and still got 9.2l/100km. The best my petrol ever got was around 12
I have never have any doubts about pulling out to pass a B double/road train doing 100km/hr when towing our KK
I'm not a mechanic and don't know the power/torque comparison between your current vehicle and the newer ones, but again I would never go back to a Petrol. Prados seem to have always had superior diesel engines to Paj's if you want to still with petrol, I would say the opposite of the diesels
Mark
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