Secondary fuel filter

Submitted: Saturday, Apr 15, 2017 at 21:33
ThreadID: 134664 Views:5188 Replies:14 FollowUps:30
This Thread has been Archived
Have 2012 diesel prado auto 150 series. We are undertaking an outback trip across the Anne Beadell, Strezlecki , Oodnadatta and other outback tracks. We have no mechanical or technical know how , but have been advised that we need to get a secondary fuel filter to ensure no contaminants enter the fuel system. Can anyone enlighten us to the need to do this.All advice appreciated
Thanks
Pandora



Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Mick O - Saturday, Apr 15, 2017 at 21:52

Saturday, Apr 15, 2017 at 21:52
Mate one of the best investments you'll make in this era of CRD vehicles particularly if you are panning to fill from drums, tanks at remote communities (where filtration of supply can be dodgy) or even jerry cans (condensation). I'd suggest a 'fuel manger' system that uses Stanadyne filters. They are about $280 on Ebay.

As a cheaper alternative you could consider a 'Mr Funnel' filter funnel. I swear by these and they have saved my bacon a couple of times out bush. I do check mine at the start of every trip though by putting it under the tap to ensure the filter mesh is still preventing passage of water.

Mr Funnel

Again my suggestion the 13 or 19l per minute single outlet.

Safe travels. Mick

''We knew from the experience of well-known travelers that the
trip would doubtless be attended with much hardship.''
Richard Maurice - 1903

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

AnswerID: 610241

Follow Up By: Member - pandora - Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 16:47

Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 16:47
thanks for the advice Mick. The funnel sounds like a good back up. handy for the mowers, whipper snippers and chain saw too. should have already owned one.
cheers pandora
0
FollowupID: 880162

Follow Up By: Member - pandora - Monday, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:45

Monday, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:45
another ? Mick, does the funnel filter out microscopic particles .
see TJM might stock them so will have a look in Toowoomba this week.
cheers pandora
0
FollowupID: 880183

Reply By: cruza25 - Saturday, Apr 15, 2017 at 22:39

Saturday, Apr 15, 2017 at 22:39
Hi
If you get the prado serviced (recomended ) before you go get them to change the filter under the car ( above the rear prop shaft ) and also the main filter in the engine bay. This is not always done in a normal service. Carry a spare one of these and know how to change it and reset the warning light if it comes on. If you want more details let me know.

An extra filter/water seperator as said above is a good idea.

Are you travelling solo or do others in the group have some mechanical knowledge. Basic stuff should be learnt before you go as well as a tool and spares kit just in case.

Enjoy the trip and the planning.
Cheers
Mike
AnswerID: 610242

Follow Up By: Member - pandora - Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 16:59

Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 16:59
Thanks Mike. will definitely be checking with Toyota re filters and spares. Would be good if they had some DIY classes as part of their after sales service for just some of the on road repairs that owners who are mechanically challenged can hook up with.
cheers pandora
0
FollowupID: 880163

Reply By: Member - Robert1660 - Saturday, Apr 15, 2017 at 23:03

Saturday, Apr 15, 2017 at 23:03
Hi Pandora,
May I suggest that you take a look at the LCOOL.org site. It has masses of information on all Toyota 4WDs. I am confident you will find some good suggestions there.
I have a WaterWatch installed which will detect water before it reaches the main filter. I do appreciate that there are other good alternatives available. The LCOOL.org site, everything Toyota, should be able to offer suggestions.
I agree with Mick that a Mr Funnel fuel filter is a good investment.
As stated by Mike have the filters changed before you leave is an excellent suggestion and if you are able it might be worth knowing how to change a fuel filter yourself. Definitely take a few spare filters with you.
I am not sure if you are intending to travel in a group or alone, however some of these areas are not for the fainthearted. The Oodnadatta Track is more or less an unsealed highway these days, however the Anne Beadell is just a "track" and very rough at that.
Best wishes for your outback trip.
Robert
Landcruiser 200 VX Diesel + Tvan Murranji

Member
My Profile  Send Message

AnswerID: 610243

Follow Up By: Member - pandora - Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 17:54

Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 17:54
thanks for that advice Robert, very helpful. will check out the lcool website. will definitely get the prado fully serviced and prepared before undertaking the ABH. will be talking to Toyota service people too, hopefully they can point me in the right direction.
cheers pandora
0
FollowupID: 880171

Follow Up By: Malcom M - Monday, Apr 17, 2017 at 08:06

Monday, Apr 17, 2017 at 08:06
Lcool is not so good for Prados.
Try Pradopoint.com.au, Aussie site just for Prados.
1
FollowupID: 880180

Reply By: mountainman - Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 07:48

Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 07:48
You can get dirty fuel anywhere.
I Would STRONGLY recommend checking your insurance policy.
As some wont cover dirty fuel !!!
Yes, fit the 2nd fuel filter.
But checking out your insurance policy first, costs you nothing compared to putting the 2nd filter on
AnswerID: 610246

Follow Up By: Member - pandora - Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 17:15

Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 17:15
Thanks mountainman. I didn't realise this could be an insurance claim..well worth looking into the policy.
cheers pandora
0
FollowupID: 880165

Follow Up By: Outback Epicurean - Monday, Apr 17, 2017 at 17:39

Monday, Apr 17, 2017 at 17:39
Which companies will cover dirty fuel damage in their policy? Have had a look today and can't find any.

thanks
0
FollowupID: 880196

Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Tuesday, Apr 18, 2017 at 06:22

Tuesday, Apr 18, 2017 at 06:22
Plenty will cover it, providing you didn't inadvertently use the wrong fuel type.

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
0
FollowupID: 880206

Follow Up By: garrycol - Tuesday, Apr 18, 2017 at 10:12

Tuesday, Apr 18, 2017 at 10:12
Agree - most insurance companies cover for dirty fuel but not putting in the wrong fuel.
0
FollowupID: 880213

Reply By: Bob Y. - Qld - Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 09:11

Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 09:11
I had one of these Fuel Manager kits fitted to my Landcruiser ute. There are kits for most 4WDs, and think they're about $400 fitted.



Fitted as a primary filter, they give some early warning, though combined with a Water Watch unit would be the ultimate solution. Far cheaper than common rail overhaul.

Bob

Seen it all, Done it all.
Can't remember most of it.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 610249

Follow Up By: Member - pandora - Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 17:18

Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 17:18
thanks Bob, Deisel care in Toowoomba was recommended to me.I will be having a chat to Toyota too as have the prado booked in for a service this week.
cheers pandora
1
FollowupID: 880166

Follow Up By: Phillipn - Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 20:54

Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 20:54
I have a filter for Diesel Care fitted, and agree with Bob Y regarding they are cheaper than repairing a common rail motor.
1
FollowupID: 880174

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 09:19

Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 09:19
Many of these replies come from people who had single fuel filters.
Your Prado has 2 fuel filters already. Not sure why you'd want a 3rd filter.
Change both filters before your trip and carry spares.
Pradopoint is the best place for Prado specific advice.
AnswerID: 610250

Follow Up By: Member - pandora - Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 17:23

Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 17:23
Thanks Phil, this is all very technical. As you say, why instal another filter if what is under the bonnet will do the job. I intend to talk to the service people at Toyota and gather as much information as possible before making a decision. the costs of 4 wding and upgrading equipment and systems on the prado could be getting up there with the cost of a small town house or unit.
cheers pandora
0
FollowupID: 880168

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Monday, Apr 17, 2017 at 12:35

Monday, Apr 17, 2017 at 12:35
There are two issues here and they often get blurred with these type of threads
The first is fuel filtration of dirt and foreign particles which standard factory filtration systems do adequately
The second and more important issue is water ingress which most standard systems are of little help and water will pass through all of the filters regardless of how many there are

The solution is to have a system that alerts you to water in your system like Waterwatch or Stanadyne so that you can address the issue before the damage is done
1
FollowupID: 880189

Follow Up By: Member - pandora - Monday, Apr 17, 2017 at 14:11

Monday, Apr 17, 2017 at 14:11
thanks Alby. that clarifies the filter system for me
cheers pandora
0
FollowupID: 880192

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Apr 17, 2017 at 15:01

Monday, Apr 17, 2017 at 15:01
Factory filter on the 150 prado already has a water sensor.
1
FollowupID: 880194

Reply By: Member - Bruce and Di T (SA) - Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 11:36

Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 11:36
We have just sold our Prado 150 and we had fitted the extra fuel filter with the glass bowl. We also have a Mr Funnel dual filter and all fuel from jerry cans is filtered through it and we have even used it with bowsers. It is slow, but so what if no dirty fuel.

We now have a 200 Series and have fitted the same filter for the same reasons.

We have done the Anne Beadell in our Prado twice, fantastic trip. If you can go visit Maralinga. It is fascinating and a real eye opener. You do need permission though.

Di
AnswerID: 610251

Follow Up By: Member - pandora - Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 17:30

Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 17:30
thanks for the heads up Di. its all getting very exciting, but preparing our vehicle is a major consideration. We have been on lots of outback tracks and done the iconic drives in our Hilux ute. the Prado has not seen much off road work except for the high country Vic and Corner country. Its great to advice form other travellers. keen to incorporate Maralinga too Di if we are not squeezed for time.
cheers pandora
0
FollowupID: 880169

Reply By: Member - Odog - Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 17:06

Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 17:06
Hi Pandora
I have had the same vehicle from new, first thing I did was put a water watch system on it, think I would have preferred a fuel manager, as Bob Y has said, the water watch will only go off if water is in the system, by the time you pull over and shut the vehicle off, it would be to late.. you get the same warning with the fuel manager, with the added benefit of an extra filter..
The other concern is the original filters, the little one under the car gets changed every 20k. The other under the bonnet, never gets changed, unless the light on the dash comes on.. this filter is not in the maintenance schedule.. every service I have, I get it changed.. I have now started doing this myself, better to know how and be comfortable doing it yourself, in the comfort of your own driveway, than trying to figure it out in the bush.. the one under the car I found the most awkward, (big fingers)... I also have a mister funnel but have never used it, no room to store it, and the smell of diesel in the car if it leaked out.. when your insurance covers bad fuel, I'll deal with it when/if it happens.. last trip we did, filled up at some odd places, but no dramas.. one thing I have been using lately is chemtec diesel power additive, use it every 3rd tank, seems to keep the engine running nice an quite, instant difference...Pradopoint is the place to find info on the prados, great wealth of info on there.. hope this helps and enjoy your trip. Cheers Odog
Some people want it to happen, some people wish it could happen, others make it happen!

Lifetime Member
My Profile  Send Message

AnswerID: 610257

Follow Up By: Member - pandora - Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 17:47

Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 17:47
thanks odog. I am a member of prado point but having trouble negotiating the site. nevertheless will persevere. I guess we would be unlucky to get a tank full of dirty fuel since you would hope that the servo owners would not want the bad publicity and loose their regular bread and butter customers etc. we have driven thousands of miles around Oz and on most of the outback tracks and never once had a problem with fuel. Have only picked up dirty fuel once and that was at a suburban service station, not in the outback. we want to make our holiday as problem free as possible so I guess that means avoiding and safeguarding against potential mishaps by ensuring our vehicle is well prepared. will check out the diesel additive, thanks for the tip
cheers pandora
0
FollowupID: 880170

Reply By: Baz - The Landy - Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 18:37

Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 18:37
I have a secondary fuel filter down the back of the dual cab where I can observe it every time I refuel.. Mind you, works for a dual cab, perhaps not a Prado.

I change my fuel filter every 5,000klm and carry spares in the vehicle.

In my opinion prevention is far better than cure. Carry a Mr Funnel fuel filter, best insurance around and cheap. Stop contamination at the source rather than try fixing it after it has happened...

There is plenty of information on the tracks you will be travelling, I have written a blog on the Anne Beadle and Sandy Blight Junction Tracks, link follows.

Anne Beadell and Sandy Blight Junction Tracks

And as suggested, visit Maralinga if you have the time, very interesting!
Enjoy your travels!

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
AnswerID: 610259

Follow Up By: Member - pandora - Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 20:08

Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 20:08
thanks for your advice Baz. enjoyed your blog on ABH and SBJ. thanks for posting. The pics are stunning. we are doing the drive from Coast to Coast. across the continent.This time travelling the ABH on return trip and the SBJ while we are in the general vicinity in the Centre. cant wait
cheers pandora
1
FollowupID: 880172

Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Monday, Apr 17, 2017 at 07:26

Monday, Apr 17, 2017 at 07:26
Something else to bear in mind in terms of preventing water content in the tanks is to keep them as full as possible.

Condensation will form on the inside of tanks overnight especially in colder areas.

Cheers, Baz
0
FollowupID: 880176

Reply By: Member - Barry P (VIC) - Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 20:12

Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 20:12
filter have a secondary fuel manager filter on my px ranger,its a good investment,according to ford ,if you get bad fuel you could be up for 10 thousand plus for pump and injectors, racv insurance will not cover bad fuel damadge
AnswerID: 610266

Follow Up By: Member - pandora - Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 22:10

Sunday, Apr 16, 2017 at 22:10
thanks for the advice Barry.
cheers pandora
0
FollowupID: 880175

Follow Up By: Member - Odog - Monday, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:10

Monday, Apr 17, 2017 at 10:10
G'day Barry, I'm insured with Nrma, which do cover bad fuel. I always get a receipt when buying fuel, have been told this helps the insurance company sort it out with supplier. Also, use the same servo, and when out of town, always look for same brand, where possible. Have heard your just as likely to get bad fuel in town as in the out back, so just wing it I guess.. Cheers
Some people want it to happen, some people wish it could happen, others make it happen!

Lifetime Member
My Profile  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 880182

Reply By: 9900Eagle - Monday, Apr 17, 2017 at 07:21

Monday, Apr 17, 2017 at 07:21
Seeing you already have a primary and secondary filter, I don't believe you need another one just spare filters.

I actually have a stanadyne fuel manager and a water watch unit.

The fuel manager catches the rocks the same as your oem underbody filter. It also traps some water. If water gets through the fuel manager, the water watch which is prior to the secondary will detect very small amounts of water present in the fuel and alarm before it gets into the secondary filter. It also traps water.

They are not cheap but are of a very high quality.

Waterwatch and price

AnswerID: 610274

Follow Up By: Member - pandora - Monday, Apr 17, 2017 at 11:00

Monday, Apr 17, 2017 at 11:00
thanks Eagle, I guess that if an alarm indicates a problem then I would need to replace?clean ?the filter. I will need to talk to these people to get an understanding of the system and instructions and how to remedy the problem... hopefully a reasonable straightforward operation.
cheers Pandora
0
FollowupID: 880185

Follow Up By: garrycol - Monday, Apr 17, 2017 at 11:29

Monday, Apr 17, 2017 at 11:29
Waterwatch is a water trap with a moderately large catchment - so if it catches and detects water and you switch off straight away then filters should still be clear of water.

However the waterwatch is not a filter and as such, as some dirt particles may also collect with the water but you must assume that these dirt particles will go onto the filters and hopefully caught there.

Standard and aftermarket filters are good at catching dirt particles but not so good at stopping water.
0
FollowupID: 880186

Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Monday, Apr 17, 2017 at 11:41

Monday, Apr 17, 2017 at 11:41
Pandora, in the link I sent, just hover over water watch in the header and you can glean lots of information there.
1
FollowupID: 880188

Reply By: Deejay - Monday, Apr 17, 2017 at 22:03

Monday, Apr 17, 2017 at 22:03
Hi Pandora. As an ex diesel mechanic and tourer of remote Australian places, I agree totally with everything you've been advised of on this thread. However, before you rush out and spend good money on a third fuel filter you need to check that the fuel suction pump has the strength to suck fuel through an additional (third) filter. The people at Toowoomba Diesel? should be able to advise you on this. I have seen this happen before and it causes the engine to starve of fuel when it is working hardest eg when you're far from home, fully loaded struggling up hills!
My other piece of advice is to get some hands-on training on how to replace a fuel & air filter and how to afterwards bleed YOUR car's fuel system. I also take a spare air filter. And another tip, if you have the money, invest in a set of TyreDogs (or similar) and a good quality air compressor. Have a wonderful trip. Deejay.
AnswerID: 610293

Follow Up By: Member - pandora - Tuesday, Apr 18, 2017 at 22:50

Tuesday, Apr 18, 2017 at 22:50
thanks for all that advice Deejay. I will also check out the fuel suction pump capacity especially since we are towing a trailer and the engine will be asked to work a lot harder here and there. Checked ARB site. have external tyre pressure sensors?
cheers Pandora
0
FollowupID: 880249

Reply By: Sigmund - Thursday, Apr 20, 2017 at 09:44

Thursday, Apr 20, 2017 at 09:44
Have read one horror story of dirt trashing injectors so I decided it was worth fitting a prefilter and went to my local 4WD specialist - long established and well respected crowd. I was prepared to stump up the $500 or so needed to supply and fit.

The guy I spoke with drives outback himself, and his advice was that it wasn't needed as long as you keep an eye on the warning light and just drain the bowl and whack a new filter in as soon as it comes on.
AnswerID: 610368

Reply By: pop2jocem - Thursday, Apr 20, 2017 at 13:06

Thursday, Apr 20, 2017 at 13:06
Personally I reckon the addition of an extra filter or better still a water trap is a good idea whether a new CRD or even the old school mechanical fuel injection equipment.
Considering the cost of repairs and the much higher pressures and lower tolerances for anything but clean diesel, particularly important with CRD.

Has anyone considered fitting a differential pressure gauge or warning sensor to detect pressure drop across a primary filter? Water sensors obviously warn if there is any present but plain old dirt plugging a filter would only be noticed when the CRD pump is unable to generate the required pressure. I'm pretty sure the ECU will throw up a fault but I also know high pressure pumps don't like being starved of fluid for their intake side. Cavitation can damage their internals.

Cheers
Pop
AnswerID: 610372

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Apr 21, 2017 at 00:02

Friday, Apr 21, 2017 at 00:02
"Has anyone considered fitting a differential pressure gauge or warning sensor to detect pressure drop across a primary filter?"

Comes standard with the Landcruiser 200series. Not sure about other vehicles. And it still works if you fit an aftermarket prefilter but not postfilter.
0
FollowupID: 880318

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Friday, Apr 21, 2017 at 10:27

Friday, Apr 21, 2017 at 10:27
Phil,

I'm assuming the 200 series have a warning sensor that detects pressure drop across the standard fitted primary filter.

What I was asking was if anyone who has fitted an additional filter or filter/water trap before the standard filter ever gone to the trouble of fitting an additional sensor or differential pressure gauge to monitor pressure drop across THAT filter, considering that it is first in line to trap any dirt. I doubt the standard warning device could monitor any pressure drop across any other filter other than the standard one it is fitted to.

Cheers
Pop
0
FollowupID: 880329

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Apr 21, 2017 at 11:38

Friday, Apr 21, 2017 at 11:38
Gday Pop,
No. It actually detects a negative pressure in the filter outlet. Not across the filter. So any restriction between the switch and the tank will be detected. So it will detect a clogged prefilter but not a clogged postfilter.
1
FollowupID: 880330

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Friday, Apr 21, 2017 at 12:45

Friday, Apr 21, 2017 at 12:45
Thanks for that Phil. So it is measuring any negative pressure in the fuel suction line after any filters upstream before the pump inlet, if I understand the schematic correctly. Then reacting to a set value to send a warning signal.

If I've got that correct, any filter between the tank and the pump is monitored and therefor any filter whether that be the 1st, 2nd or 3rd could block beyond a set value and operate a warning.

Cheers
Pop
0
FollowupID: 880332

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Apr 21, 2017 at 17:04

Friday, Apr 21, 2017 at 17:04
Yes, got it in one.
1
FollowupID: 880337

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (13)