Kluger towing swan outback

Submitted: Monday, Aug 21, 2017 at 04:00
ThreadID: 135436 Views:3846 Replies:7 FollowUps:14
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Just wanted to know if there were any Kulgera owners out there towing any swan outbacks , we were thinking of buying one in a few years time but as we didn't want to upgrade the car yet were wanting to stick with the kluger for a few years more.it is a 2wd 2009 model and while we were intending to stick to the main roads I am a bit worried about traction with the vehicle.i have heard stories about kluger owners who have had no problems with their vehicles towing a swan but I. Was also wondering whether those owners need to use a weight distribution hitch on their klugers as I have heard the rear suspension on the klugers are soft anyone use them?





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Reply By: Injected - Monday, Aug 21, 2017 at 04:45

Monday, Aug 21, 2017 at 04:45
I own a 2012 KXS AWD Kluger, I cant help you with the specifics of towing a jayco swan,but I did use the vehicle to tow a two tonne trailer from Central Qld to Adelaide.
I was quite surprised at its towing capabilities but it like to drink, I was lucky to get 300km to a tank. At a guess you would probably need a WDH as it was a little saggy in the rear.
Regards.
AnswerID: 613215

Follow Up By: Johnnykluger - Monday, Aug 21, 2017 at 04:52

Monday, Aug 21, 2017 at 04:52
Thanks I've heard they like to drink a bit do you use a WDH yourself?

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FollowupID: 883614

Reply By: Injected - Monday, Aug 21, 2017 at 04:57

Monday, Aug 21, 2017 at 04:57
No I didn't in that case, I have a 200 for majority of my tow duties.
AnswerID: 613216

Reply By: swampy - Monday, Aug 21, 2017 at 08:57

Monday, Aug 21, 2017 at 08:57
hi
We have had AWD Subaru they luv the fuel also .
AnswerID: 613220

Reply By: Sigmund - Monday, Aug 21, 2017 at 12:55

Monday, Aug 21, 2017 at 12:55
Its gross capacity is given as 1570 kg. Ball weight isn't given at that but as 109kg tare. So around 130kg gross.

IMO the issue you run into is levering up the front of the vehicle with that amount of ball weight, so a WDH is highly desirable.

It's also likely that the official gross and tare figures are understated.
AnswerID: 613225

Follow Up By: Johnnykluger - Monday, Aug 21, 2017 at 14:36

Monday, Aug 21, 2017 at 14:36
Yes and given the caravan will come with accessories and whatever I put into it plus a family of 4 in the car it could well come up to 2 tonne which I think is the klugers towing limit
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FollowupID: 883621

Follow Up By: Sigmund - Monday, Aug 21, 2017 at 14:54

Monday, Aug 21, 2017 at 14:54
Jayco says its payload is 300 kg including accessories fitted at the factory. Add that to tare and the maximum weight (ie ATM) can be no more than 1570 kg.
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FollowupID: 883622

Follow Up By: Johnnykluger - Wednesday, Aug 23, 2017 at 09:19

Wednesday, Aug 23, 2017 at 09:19
Yes sigmund you are correct I spoke to a jayco dealer he said the full weight of the camper will not exceed 1600kg he also said that any weight in the car was not classed as towing weight it cones under the gvm of the car that's a relief as I always assumed it was added to the tow weight when I asked about the wdh he said it was not nescessary he has never seen a camper with one only that I needed to put an electric brake plug on my tow bar that's about it.
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FollowupID: 883651

Reply By: splits - Monday, Aug 21, 2017 at 21:22

Monday, Aug 21, 2017 at 21:22
"Was also wondering whether those owners need to use a weight distribution hitch on their klugers as I have heard the rear suspension on the klugers are soft anyone use them?"


Check the towing instructions in the owner's handbook. I have a Hilux with a maximum ball weight of 180kg. The book says a WDH must be used for any weight over 90kg.

As you probably know, tow ball weight forces the rear of the car down and lifts the front taking weight off the front wheels in the process. That upsets the steering. That often happens when ball weight within limits is combined with excessive weight in the rear of the car. A WDH lifts the rear of the car and takes weight off the rear axle. That weight is then redistributed between the front wheels of the car and the wheels of the trailer. The latest WDH research coming out of the US is saying from memory something like don't put any more than about 50% of the weight back onto the front of the car.

Read through this recently written article on the WDH
USING WDHas well as others on van stability by the same author, particularly the one that includes the problems you can cause if you decide to stiffen the rear suspension without doing exactly the same to the front.
AnswerID: 613235

Follow Up By: Johnnykluger - Tuesday, Aug 22, 2017 at 02:12

Tuesday, Aug 22, 2017 at 02:12
Thanks splits didn't think about looking at the manual I wonder if there are any owners with klugers towing 2 tonne and whether they use WDH or not curious? I'll check out the manual anyway cheers.
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FollowupID: 883630

Reply By: Johnnykluger - Tuesday, Aug 22, 2017 at 02:23

Tuesday, Aug 22, 2017 at 02:23
It's funny though I do a fair bit of camping I've seen a lot of cars pulling all sorts of different sized caravans from large to small and I have never seen any of them use a WDH is this because the 4wd suspension is stronger? Maybe I haven't been paying much attention I'll have to look closer.
AnswerID: 613237

Follow Up By: splits - Tuesday, Aug 22, 2017 at 10:13

Tuesday, Aug 22, 2017 at 10:13
" I have never seen any of them use a WDH is this because the 4wd suspension is stronger? "

There are a couple of issues here. One is a WDH can not be used in any conditions where the angle between the car and whatever it is towing exceeds a certain limit. One example is driving through an erosion ditch while climbing up a steep mountain track. The angle between the car as it goes up out of the ditch and the trailer as it is going down into it is so high that the WDH, the car, the tow bar or the whole lot could easily be damaged. The bars can only bend so far.

Another is the mistaken belief by many owners that heavier rear springs, air bags and a WDH all do the same thing. Nothing could be further from the truth.

A WDH is a lever, not a spring. It levers the back of the chassis up like a couple of wheelbarrow handles sticking out the back and performs as I previously described.

Heavier springs or air bags simply lift the car up and make it look good. They don't take weight off the axle and they don't redistribute it anywhere. This is one of the main reasons that so many utes have bent their chassis. If there is too much heavy material behind the axle it needs to be moved further forward or taken off the car, not lifted up a little higher and left there.
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FollowupID: 883632

Follow Up By: Johnnykluger - Tuesday, Aug 22, 2017 at 16:06

Tuesday, Aug 22, 2017 at 16:06
Yes I see your point does this mean that many caravan owners who do use a WDH are unknowingly putting too much strain on their rear axles?
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FollowupID: 883639

Follow Up By: splits - Tuesday, Aug 22, 2017 at 17:02

Tuesday, Aug 22, 2017 at 17:02
Only if the car manufacturer says don't use them. Some do and some don't. In my case Toyota lists their use in the handbook under the heading of "essential" equipment for towing above a certain weight. This is why it is so important that every owner who wants to tow something should read the towing instructions in the owner's handbook. Just knowing the maximum towing capacity of the car is not good enough.

Even after reading all the instructions, you still have to be careful. .This email from Mitsubishi covers one point that should be adhered to particularly in the interests of reliability.
===============
We acknowledge receipt and thank you for your recent enquiry regarding the Mitsubishi
Triton.
Please be advised that Mitsubishi Motors Australia Ltd (MMAL) only release towing
specifications for vehicles being used under normal conditions such as highway driving. We
would not recommend towing this amount while driving on 4WD tracks or surfaces of this
nature. The 3 Tonne towing capacity is a statement of the maximum permissible towing
weight possible for this vehicle.
Thank you again for your enquiry.
Kind Regards,
Simon
Mitsubishi Customer Assistance Centre
Mitsubishi Motors Australia Ltd
GPO Box 1851 Adelaide SA 5001
===========

Don't be surprised if all manufactures recommend reducing both carrying and towing capacities in accordance with the conditions. Maximum sustained stress in rough conditions is not going to do any cay any good at all.

Regarding weight on the rear axle. A WDH lifts the the car up off it so it should not over stress the axle. Excessive weight too far back behind the axle without a WDH can certainly do it.

Anything behind the axle is sitting on a lever i.e the distance between the axle and whatever the object is. That will place a higher load on the axle than the same load sitting on some scales. This is mentioned on Land Rover's website. In the specifications for the Defender it says 150 kg on the tow ball puts 206 kg on the axle. A 4wd ute for example that can take a ball weight of 350kg would have over 500 kg on the axle. Bounce that up and down on a rough road and it would be even higher. That is not a problem if the car has been designed for it but you are asking for trouble when high tow ball weight is combined with a lot more weight inside the end of the car and the manufacturer says their body or chassis has not been designed for a WDH.,
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FollowupID: 883640

Follow Up By: Johnnykluger - Tuesday, Aug 22, 2017 at 18:08

Tuesday, Aug 22, 2017 at 18:08
Yes I don't think there's much chance of me taking my kluger off road particularly because of the fact that it is a 2wd so I'll have to be very careful where I park the car even the smallest amount of grass or gravel in a slope towing that much weight would cause the kluger to slip so traction will be a worry for me not just the towing problems so there's no way I'll be taking my kluger in an off-road situation the only reason im getting an outback model swan is because my circumstances at the moment mean i can't upgrade to a 4wd anytime soon so I'll have to make do with the kluger so I'm a bit nervous towing all that weight behind it .
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FollowupID: 883641

Reply By: Johnnykluger - Tuesday, Aug 22, 2017 at 12:20

Tuesday, Aug 22, 2017 at 12:20
Yes I see your point does this mean that many caravan owners who do use a WDH are unknowingly putting too much strain on their rear axles?
AnswerID: 613238

Follow Up By: William P - Tuesday, Aug 22, 2017 at 15:17

Tuesday, Aug 22, 2017 at 15:17
I assume you are responding to Splits - why not use the follow up so it is clear you are responding to him rather than starting a new post.

That way it makes it easier for all of use to follow the various discussion generated by each post within a thread.

Cheers

William
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FollowupID: 883637

Follow Up By: RMD - Wednesday, Aug 23, 2017 at 08:48

Wednesday, Aug 23, 2017 at 08:48
Johhny.
Not sure what you are understanding about what the responses you have asked to your questions. A WDH doesn't put strain onto the rear axle, it removes some of it from the rear axle and transfers to front axle and towed axle via forces transferred through the chassis and trailer frame.

What I would be concerned with is, the mountings of a tow bar onto the formed sheet metal which makes up the construction of your vehicle. ie, Monocoque chassis.
If it isn't strong enough and braced sufficiently, any significant amount of forces from a WDH may cause that area to be stressed more than desired. Body frame sheet metal failure can occur if too much. In your case, the woopedy doos, up and down at speed which are encountered on some tar roads is a concern. That is what will stress things if the magnitude is too great.
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FollowupID: 883649

Follow Up By: Johnnykluger - Wednesday, Aug 23, 2017 at 09:22

Wednesday, Aug 23, 2017 at 09:22
I thought that was what a wdh was supposed to stop anyway I spoke to a jayco dealer who told me he's never seen a wdh on a camper it wasn't nessesary
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FollowupID: 883653

Follow Up By: RMD - Wednesday, Aug 23, 2017 at 11:03

Wednesday, Aug 23, 2017 at 11:03
In your reply above in 613238 you said the reverse of what you have now expressed re the use of a WDH.
I am not sure which point you have grasped or which way around you have grasped it.
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FollowupID: 883654

Follow Up By: Johnnykluger - Wednesday, Aug 23, 2017 at 11:26

Wednesday, Aug 23, 2017 at 11:26
Sorry that was an error I meant those owners who do not use a wdh
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FollowupID: 883655

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