Permit Required For Mitchell Plateau

From the start of 2018 and you want to visit the MP as an independent traveller you will need a permit to access. It will be referred to as the Ngauwudu Road Zone pass.

The fee will be valid for 5 days and will cost $20 per person and that fee will increase to $45 per person in 2019.

Try this link to find out more infouvp@wunambalgaambera.org.au or phone 08 9161 4205 -

https://4wdvictoria.org.au/images/Posters/Ngauwudu-Road-Zone-Map-2018.pdf

I hope this information is helpful to those planning a trip in 2018 and please excuse my computer skills
Leave gates how you find them.

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Reply By: Life Member - Duncan W (WA) - Thursday, Dec 14, 2017 at 10:46

Thursday, Dec 14, 2017 at 10:46
Could see that happening, and one hopes that the revenue gets used for the betterment of all.

Cheers

Dunc
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Reply By: braincell - Thursday, Dec 14, 2017 at 11:46

Thursday, Dec 14, 2017 at 11:46
what will happens to the funds , disappear
as usual
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Reply By: Alloy c/t - Thursday, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:01

Thursday, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:01
And next will be ?? Can see the 'black market' in the permits , just like the 'resale ' of permits for Ayers Rock that happens at Coward Springs.....
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Follow Up By: GerryG - Thursday, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:41

Thursday, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:41
Do you mean Curtain Springs?
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Reply By: PhilD - Thursday, Dec 14, 2017 at 19:45

Thursday, Dec 14, 2017 at 19:45
So, what is the money for? Road maintenance that has rarely occurred, better facilities which are not needed when self sufficient, or someone's slush fund? Fortunately I have been to that area multiple times, so I will find somewhere else to go.....just running out of options where we don't get charged for visiting our own country.
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Follow Up By: Michaeljp - Saturday, Dec 16, 2017 at 20:39

Saturday, Dec 16, 2017 at 20:39
I agree PhilD, to hell with them. Im sick of this.
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Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 09:07

Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 09:07
This is what the money is for, according to the website...

It might stop some people from going, but there'll be no shortage of people paying money to visit. I can't think of too many things that are "free" these days.

Try getting into the MCG without paying an entry fee (good luck with that one)...

I'll leave it for others to debate whether there is value in it, but it seems to be the way of the world these days.

From the website...

"When visitors buy a UVP, they will be helping us Wunambal Gaambera people to:

Build leadership in the tourism industry on our Country.

Establish managed visitor sites at key locations, with Uunguu Rangers and Traditional Owners welcoming, guiding and sharing culture.

Grow our Uunguu Ranger program with a tourism focus.

Provide cultural expertise and support for tour operators.

Develop our own authentic “Uunguu Experience” tourism ventures."

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 09:43

Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 09:43
.
Nice words Baz, but I am not sure what they mean. And rarely do they translate into any tangible outcomes.
When it comes to "Transit Permits", the roads are maintained by the Government authorities yet the permit fees go to the traditional owners. I do not mind paying for services provided, but I do not see the services. A good example is the Hay River Track...... $200 yet totally un-maintained.

Apart from the fees, which are after all only a small part of my travel costs, my objection is the difficulty of obtaining even simple transit permits. It takes time and trouble to determine what is required, then often need to be obtained well in advance and are limited to a very tight time frame, precluding casual travel. The whole system is piecemeal, chaotic and does not meet consumer needs. Without wishing to be disrespectful, the indigenous communities do not appear to posses good organisational skills, yet are granted power to regulate travel on government roads.



Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: PhilD - Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 09:56

Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 09:56
And then there are the areas closed off waiting for a Management Plan to be developed so visiting can start again. Some of the Management Plans have been in the making heading for a decade. Just an excuse for permanently closing off significant tracts of Australia to white people?
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Follow Up By: batsy - Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 12:09

Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 12:09
Allan , whilst I don't disagree with the basic thrust of your comments I was of the "belief" that the $200 ? permit fee for the Hay River Track was for permission to traverse the Batton Hill property section of the track. I spent a little time with Lindsay Bookie prior to his death & was led to believe this was the case. I was also led to believe this to be true from Jol Fleming, Lindsay Bookie's friend & mentor. I may stand corrected on this.
I applaud anyone , indigenous or otherwise who stands up & has a go but double dipping at the expense of taxpayers is hard to swallow.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 14:26

Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 14:26
.
Hi Batsy,

Are you suggesting that the Hay River Track could be traversed without a permit and fee by not entering the Batton Hill camp? That is not the impression I gained.

The bookings are managed by Australian 4x4 Tag Along Tours (Jol Fleming)
but the whole administration of the Hay River Track excursion was somewhat confusing and required a number of emails and phone calls to organise.

Two permits were required..............
1) To the Central Land Council in Alice Springs. Painless and free.
2) To the Atnetye Land Trust submitted via Jol Fleming. This was Titled "Entry and Transit Registration Form -- Atnetye Land Trust -- Batton Hill Camp and Hay River Track". The provided instructions referred to the Transit Fee of $200 "to Atnetye should be paid electronically at the same time the permits are submitted." In addition, it was a requirement that each traveller was to camp at Batton Hill for a minimum of one night at a cost of $20 per person per night.
You can see that the permit refers to ".....and Hay River Track".
The published information would have you believe that a a $200 permit was required to drive the "Hay River Track" although there were no gates or signs along the track to prevent your access. Not that such is unusual.
There were additional charges for optional tours from the camp. We had booked on two of these.
We were told that we were the only travellers booked into the camp on our dates.There was more to come.........

On arrival at Batton Hill we found 16 other vehicles in camp. It transpired that they were booked to a tagalong tour (yes, sixteen) with Jol Fleming starting from Alice Springs but were delayed in Alice for 3 days due to Jol being "not available". They were then delayed for a further 2 days at Batton Hill camp whilst Jol attended to maintenance matters at the camp. A couple we spoke to were "not Happy Campers"!!! We cut our losses, stayed only one night and abandoned the booked tours, which simply could not have eventuated anyway. Even so, we had to catch Jol just as he was driving out of camp to thrust the $40 camping fee into his hand as no-one showed interest in collecting it!

The drive was good, the camp OK, but the transit fee and organisation were poor. Maybe it is not always like this, but it was on this occasion. If you are going to run a business...... you've gotta RUN it!




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Allan

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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 14:35

Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 14:35
After 50 odd years of hard yakka I resent having to pay for access to vast areas of MY country, Australia.
Dave.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 14:37

Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 14:37
Batsy, I just looked up a map that shows that the Atnetye Lands only embrace the northern half of the Hay River Track. But I don't see how it would be possible to drive the full track without entering those lands.
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Wednesday, Dec 20, 2017 at 16:44

Wednesday, Dec 20, 2017 at 16:44
Reality is that most of this vast land isn't OUR country DavidM and we don't have any rights or access to it. Be happy that you have "regulated" access because elsewhere unfettered access regularly leads to abuse of facilities and the environment by yobs.

On private property you usually pay for the privilege where it's granted and are trespassing where it isn't. On most mining leases you'll be be barred totally and "shot on sight" if you transgress. Vast tracts of land are permanently off limits to us all because unlike say Britain our politicians favour exploitation over preservation. It's one of the problems of a resource bound economy.

It would be quite sad if the words posted by Baz above aren't fulfilled because when done well cultural experiences led by knowledgeable aborigines are a great thing for both locals and visitors.
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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Wednesday, Dec 20, 2017 at 18:00

Wednesday, Dec 20, 2017 at 18:00
Whether the land is used for mining, farming etc it still belongs to Australians. You might be happy to have "regulated access", I'm not.
Most mining leases can be accessed with a 40e permit.
Shot on sight. Utter Cr-p.
Unlike Baz and yourself I don't believe in Toyota Dreaming.
Dave.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Wednesday, Dec 20, 2017 at 18:31

Wednesday, Dec 20, 2017 at 18:31
There are plenty of mining leases where you will either be denied access or escorted off if you "inadvertantly" wander in David.

Fact is that land can be owned by Australians, Chinese, Brits, whoever - and you won't ever have any access to it unless invited. Land which was previously public - esp along the coast - has been sold off to the highest bidder, buildings, houses and fences erected, and you won't be welcome without an invite - if at all. Where free camping was available now there are caravan parks which charge you for a plot and some basic facilities. Such are the rules of title in this land.

Don't want regulated access? Presumably your own property is open to the public and we can all drop in and use the facilities at our leisure then? National Parks provide regulated access, mostly with a fee attached. Without them much of that land - which is owned by "the Crown" - would be subdivided, sold off and locked away forever.

The rules apply irrespective of race, colour, religion or politics but invariably in these discussions some people only have difficulty with them where our first peoples are involved. Odd that.
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Reply By: Dean K3 - Thursday, Dec 14, 2017 at 20:57

Thursday, Dec 14, 2017 at 20:57
MP ? isn't that supposed to be NP ie National Park - most already charge a entry fee or camping fee as case maybe -a few both fee apply in WA.

Way it goes nothing new doubt the fee applied be used for its intended purpose just be lining some manager in a office somewhere in perth cbd
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Reply By: Member -Pinko (NSW) - Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 06:36

Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 06:36
Bout time we put an entry fee for swimming on NSW beaches ?
Living is a journey,it depends on where you go !
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Follow Up By: OutBack Wanderers - Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 00:34

Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 00:34
Where you been? It's called parking meter, $4 for 1 hour, $8 for 4 hours, $12 for 8 hours

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Follow Up By: Member -Pinko (NSW) - Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 06:19

Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 06:19
Well how about that, I left Sydney in 1989 and have never returned there.
Its no wonder all you city folk flock to Coffs Harbour and Woolgoolga every chance you get.
Boat ramps and beach parking up here is free.
Living is a journey,it depends on where you go !
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Reply By: Top End Az - Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 14:12

Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 14:12
So will the campground fees still apply and be included in the permit? I'm getting a bit tired of all this paying to access parts of Australia. Might set up a permit system for my street while I'm at it.
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Follow Up By: Member - Munji - Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 18:00

Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 18:00
Probably not.
Different departments so they wont want to miss out.
I think my next one MP will be my last.
Its all getting out of control now.
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Reply By: Michaeljp - Saturday, Dec 16, 2017 at 20:38

Saturday, Dec 16, 2017 at 20:38
My guess the NP camp fee's will stay. Its a road access pass. You pay if you come in by road sea or air. I won't be going back there ever again. I could see something like this happening a few years ago when they started at King Edward river camp ground.
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Reply By: al - Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 10:06

Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 10:06
have seen MP several times. was planning to go there in 2020.
will cross that one off my list. if they want to keep people away they have acheived it. in my group there are 6 vehicles we will spend our money else where.
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Reply By: Member - Andrew & Jen - Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 13:33

Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 13:33
So, the 2 of you are off on your big trip for the year which includes the NW of WA. If you are from the southern/eastern states and are doing the the round trip back through southern WA, the total distance travelled will be in excess of 10 000 kms, probably more like 13 000km. The travels costs alone – ignoring meals, etc - will be of the same order – many thousands of dollars.

Assuming you are including the Gibb River Road in your travels, you get to the turn off to the Mitchell Plateau and Falls and say to each other “Nah, just not worth paying the $40”. It will only be ……. (insert your own comment reflecting your pov), Yeh, right!

Reading the communities objectives (in Baz’s post), I wish them every success. The times I have taken the trouble to listen to Aboriginal people talk about country (I use this term in the Aboriginal sense of the word), I have been blown away by their deep wisdom and caring. But often they will only share this with receptive people who really want to listen and understand without prejudice and prejudging. In my experience, the more the trust builds, the more you get to hear.

It is so easy to stereotype, to “write people and/or groups off” - everybody knows what (insert your chosen target group) are like! (really?) I know many people who could not organise the proverbial p..s up in a brewery. They came in all shapes and sizes and from many different educational and ethnic backgrounds.

The assumptions we make about a person or group become the “filters” through which we perceive them and respond. And this invariably brings about the the very behaviours that confirm our original assumptions. It ends up as a lose/lose situation, rather than a win/win.

Happy travelling!

Cheers
Andrew
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Follow Up By: al - Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 20:12

Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 20:12
I have turned away from better places than m/p.
Its amazing locals don't want to no about anything till there is money to be made.
then they screw every body for all they can, no wonder the likes of Kakadon't is suffering and i have heard the numbers on the canning is down also after imposing
entry fees.

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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 22:49

Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 22:49
When did "entry fees" come into effect on the Canning, al?

Bob

Seen it all, Done it all.
Can't remember most of it.

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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Wednesday, Dec 20, 2017 at 16:55

Wednesday, Dec 20, 2017 at 16:55
How much does a visit to the Undara Lava Tubes cost these days?
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Follow Up By: 3ways - Wednesday, Dec 20, 2017 at 19:38

Wednesday, Dec 20, 2017 at 19:38
About the same as Cobbold Gorge
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Wednesday, Dec 20, 2017 at 22:22

Wednesday, Dec 20, 2017 at 22:22
Holy dooley 3ways, they don't miss you do they?
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Reply By: Baz - The Landy - Tuesday, Dec 19, 2017 at 09:50

Tuesday, Dec 19, 2017 at 09:50
It is people’s right to complain about anything they like…but;

I always feel it is important to view things through a number of lenses before having that whine!

We are so lucky in Australia that we are “free to roam” wherever we like, for the most part.

We can travel widely to experience what is arguably the best continent on the planet, with the best weather, plenty of sunshine, a large diversity of flora and fauna, and magnificent natural beauty to be amazed by.

That freedom exists because unlike some countries we are not ravaged by war or violent internal conflicts. And even the wildlife is mostly friendly – usually nothing is trying to eat you unless you decide to be a food source by swimming with the “salties” in Australia’s northern parts.

Yes, there are some travel restrictions – I’m sure I’m not alone when I say I don’t want anyone roaming up my driveway uninvited and undoubtedly others feel the same about there own part of Australia.

Some places are simply off-limits.

Others might let you in for a fee, whether it is the Board of the MCG with their hand out before you pass through the turnstiles for the Boxing Day Test or the AFL Grand Final, or Traditional Owners at the front-gates of Kakadu before you enter to enjoy the landscape.

That’s life in a capitalist society (you should see the alternative!)…

And yes, there might be some frustrating red tape and an associated fee to traverse some parts of Australia and perhaps the permit system for entering aboriginal lands is disjointed.

But anyone who has dealt with government departments on a regular basis might find the permit system isn’t too bad. With some patience you can generally achieve the outcome you are looking for and in many cases without any cost.

On average, Australian’s enjoy a good standard of living and that is what enables many to travel and explore this great country of ours, whether as a “gap year” when fresh out of high school, or with partners and friends in our “retiring years”…

Or perhaps Mum and Dad with the young ones on an extended tour to show the kids there is more to schooling than a classroom, slate, and chalkboard!

The freedom to choose is mostly ours…

But freedom of choice doesn’t necessarily equate to “free of charge”.

If a fee to traverse a road is all we can find to whine about then I reckon life ain’t to bad in the Sunburnt Country, at least there is a choice – in some parts of the world you don’t have the freedom to choose.

I guess human nature is such that no matter how good something is there will be those who will want to find something to have a “whine” about….

Such is life, hey!

Cheers, Baz – The Landy
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Tuesday, Dec 19, 2017 at 13:07

Tuesday, Dec 19, 2017 at 13:07
.
Baz, I can see where you are coming from...... yes, it is a great country with essential freedoms. And paying reasonable fees-for-access is not an intolerable expense for me. As I said, it is a small part of my travel costs. However, I can see why it bothers some respondents here.

There are those who maybe are travelling on a limited budget. They have paid taxes and vehicle registration fees for all their working life. Some of these collected fees have been used to construct roads throughout Australia including those in outback locations. Now, when those blokes wish to travel on such roads, they find that there are restrictions and fees to be paid to a "third party" who did not construct or maintain those roads. And we are not talking about "roaming up anyone's driveway uninvited", but on roads that are in place to allow transit of citizens (of any colour) and goods.

Granted that we "white" citizens of Australia owe a significant obligation to the indigenous citizens of this country, but that should not extend to granting roadway toll charges or access control to persons who do not contribute to their construction or maintenance. It seems fundamental that in order to enjoy "rights" to specific property, one must also accept "responsibility" for such property.
It is perhaps significant that station owners who lease land from the Commonwealth of Australia are required to allow unhindered transit to travellers on public roads that pass through such property.

I am not so sure that your example of needing to pay fees to enter the MCG stands up too well. It is owned by the Victorian Government and the admission fees provide for its maintenance and operation. The MCG is essentially a business enterprise providing specific services for receipt of an entry fee.

Just because we may have it better here in the "Sunburnt Country" than in some other places on the planet should not mean that we are required to accept, or be submitted, to conditions that are less-than-reasonable or circumstances that do not need to be. It approximates to apartheid which is not what is needed in the Australian society. It seems to be the convenient way of our Government where surely the way to resolution is to strive for unity.

Perhaps some of those who complained about the transit fees do not express themselves with your eloquence but can you say that they have no case to answer?
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Tuesday, Dec 19, 2017 at 14:34

Tuesday, Dec 19, 2017 at 14:34
Hi Allan

It is tempting to debate some of the points you’ve raised, but this thread wasn’t established to facilitate that.

But on expressing a point of view – I’m hearing what people have said and my post hasn’t diminished in anyway their right to express it in their own unique way, nor am I suggesting they’re point of view is wrong.

That is another very important freedom we have in Australia, the right to express a personal view, within some reasonable and generous boundaries.

And I respect the fact that others may differ or hold a differing view or opinion to mine; I can live with that and welcome it, I often learn by understanding other people’s point of view.



Cheers, Baz
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Tuesday, Dec 19, 2017 at 14:40

Tuesday, Dec 19, 2017 at 14:40
.
Agreed Baz. We've each made our point of view and we should leave it at that.

Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: Michael H9 - Tuesday, Dec 19, 2017 at 14:10

Tuesday, Dec 19, 2017 at 14:10
If the fees mean less people go there, then that's a good thing for the people who do decide to go.
Most tracts of land that are specifically named and have defined boundaries are either closed off in some way or another, or charge a fee, not just indigenous lands. I don't see how those people who complain about access to "their country" can't see that.
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