Article Comment: All Terrain (AT) Tyres

Submitted: Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 11:43
ThreadID: 135985 Views:3589 Replies:6 FollowUps:23
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For what it is worth, I have spoken with BFG about warranty and was told their warranty, which as stated in comments here is in addition to the statutory warranty by supplier, is honoured only if you buy from a BFG authorised outlet like Bob Jane. It is not honoured if you by from ...at least one online sales outlet but won't mention specifics. Toyo said they would honour warranty no matter who sold the tyre.
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Reply By: William P - Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 12:00

Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 12:00
Yes BFG Aust should honour warranty of their tyres sold through their network. However with BFG and some other brands there are a number of "grey import" new tyres that are imported direct from the USA bypassing the official BFG Aust system - they may very well be the same tyres and a "warranty" of sort still applies under the Australian Consumer Law for these tyres.

It is important to recognise that under Aust Consumer Law it is the seller who carries the initial warranty obligation with the customer (terms may be set by the manufacrurer) so in that aspect it doesn't matter if it is a genuine import or a "grey import" though it will be harder to get satisfaction with the import.

Toyo Aust may very well honour any warranty matter for any tyre sold that comes into the country via their network but if like the BFG it is a grey import I doubt whether they would be interested.
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Follow Up By: Neihoh - Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 12:03

Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 12:03
Yep that's right William. Although I have on the record a written reply from Toyo saying they would honour warranty no matter who sold the tyre. At least with Toyo, the just don't make different versions of the same tyre.
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Follow Up By: William P - Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 12:49

Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 12:49
For sure as long as it is a Toyo Aust imported tyre - they will not be interested in warranting a Grey Import which they have had no control over.
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Follow Up By: Neihoh - Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 13:01

Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 13:01
My question:
"Hi, can you please confirm or otherwise, that Toyo tyres purchased from ########.com have the same warranty and conditions to those purchased from "bricks n mortar" outlets."

Toyo response:
"any product related warranties will be covered by Toyo's manufacturer product warranty"
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Follow Up By: William P - Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 14:40

Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 14:40
Your missing my point
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Follow Up By: Neihoh - Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 15:29

Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 15:29
Am I? I havent posted anything about YOUR point, other than agreeing that statutory warranties stand aside from express warranties.

If you have anything in writing from them that is at odds to that would like to see it, particularly Toyo, as that is what I ended up buying.

I am not arguing with you nor looking for one. You seem to be. Missing your point? fmd.

I am just stating facts of what BFG have said in writing to me for the benefit of others, and it is consistent with what you say; I can say that because I get your point, and also what Toyo said to me in writing about their express warranty. Toyo did not qualify it like BFG or attach any conditions about who imported the tyre. I was specific with my question to them about the vendor [named them] and they said no problem. Maybe they are just confident that no matter who imports their product it is theirs.
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Follow Up By: nickb - Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 18:30

Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 18:30
William P’s point is it doesn’t matter where you buy them, whether online, Bob Jane etc, the warranty may not cover grey/parallel import tyres. These are often made with different compounds not suited to Australian conditions.

You may need to email them again and specify if the warranty covers grey/parallel imports, not just who you are buying them from. For all we know ########.com may only sell Australian spec tyres. If Toyo’s Warranty covers grey imports that is a positive.
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Follow Up By: Neihoh - Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 18:41

Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 18:41
The warranty from BFG is very unlikely to cover grey imports; no argument nor lack of understanding there. In fact that is what BFG confirmed to me in other words. I suspect they are fairly confident that their authorised distributors, Bob Jane and co won't sell grey imports. For this to be even relevant to Bob J, you must think that Bob Jane would sell a Grey import not distributed to them by BFG. Interesting, but hard to believe.

Edit:
As for Toyo, I get the impression but happy to be enlightened otherwise, that Toyo do not make different versions of what is essentially the same branded tyre, unlike BFG and Bridgestone or have LT versions of the same tyre that is not LT and where you need to read the finer print to determine what the load rating is. For a Toyo tyre to be a grey import, it might have to be a counterfeit.
Anyway we will see, have ordered a set of 265/65/17 LT Open Country AT2, they are all load rated at 120 that I have seen advertised on line by anybody. At $258 each for 5 including fitting and whjeel alignment [includes a $100 cash back so you could get 4 for $253 each] I think it worth a shot. They are advertised as TOYO OPEN COUNTRY A/T II 265/65R17 120R (10 PLY). If they are not exactly that, and date of manufacture reasonable and within the recommendations by ... was it Toyo? then I won't be taking delivery and Paypal will probably back me up as have screen shots of the order, what was advertised and email to seller that I expect to get what was advertised.

Paranoid much? Yep but have seen an ad changed after order to deny a misleading advert claim and the source code for the web page showed it changed an hour after I requested a refund. Not from this seller though. Have used them and the tyre fitter wheel aligner before and service and product was great all round.

Cheers. Good service/info/form provided here. Thanks
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 19:32

Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 19:32
BFG or any other brand have no obligation to warrant a grey import product
Consumer Law relates to the retailer not the manufacturer
If you have a problem you have to take them back to where you bought them from
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Follow Up By: Neihoh - Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 19:40

Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 19:40
Thanks Alby. If the Australian local company Manufacturer [BFG Australia] induces you to buy from one of its retailers by offering a 6 year warranty then that is enforceable and additional to consumer law statutory warranty and yes probably doesnt apply to grey imports, tyres imported outside the operation of and not distributed by a company like BFG Australia. As has been mentioned a number of times BFG effectively say nothing contrary to this by stating their 6 year warranty applies to tyres bought from authorised sellers, BJ etc. No one is saying that THIS warranty applies to a "grey import" unless you think Bob Jane sells grey imports; I don't.
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Sunday, Dec 17, 2017 at 10:19

Sunday, Dec 17, 2017 at 10:19
It has been implied here that some grey import tyres are somehow different to the "factory" imported tyres ? Not so, the grey imports are just bought in bulk from a USA supplier direct and imported privately.
If you deal with a well known grey importer, and you have a warranty issue, then they will deal with it themselves, no different to the Australian manufacturer of the "original" tyres. Only thing wrong with the grey import is you will need to take it back to the same store ( and they may only have one ) you bought it from, whether it was direct or e bay !!

But with the cheaper price of the grey import, any warranty issues may be regarded as too hard and you may choose to ignore a warranty issue.
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Follow Up By: OutBack Wanderers - Sunday, Dec 17, 2017 at 23:02

Sunday, Dec 17, 2017 at 23:02
TOYO Open Country A/T good tyre, we did 19,000 k's on our Big Trip, great grip on gravel, I guess the PJ had something to do with it too.

I'd be buying another 4 -set after these expire, can't fault them

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Reply By: Member - Racey - Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 12:02

Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 12:02
Warranty details from ACCC wrbsite:-

Who to claim a remedy from

Products

You can claim a remedy from the retailer if the products do not meet any one or more of the consumer guarantees, with the exception of availability of spare parts and repair facilities.

The remedies you can seek from the retailer who sold you the product include a repair, replacement, or refund and in some cases compensation for damages and loss.

The retailer can’t refuse to help you by sending you to the manufacturer or importer.

You can claim a remedy directly from the manufacturer or importer if the goods do not meet one or more of the following consumer guarantees:

acceptable quality
matching description
any extra promises made about such things like performance, condition and quality
repairs and spare parts - the manufacturer is responsible for ensuring that spare parts and repair facilities (a place that can fix the consumer’s goods) are available for a reasonable time after purchase unless you were told otherwise. How long is ‘reasonable’ will depend on the type of product.
You are only entitled to recover costs from a manufacturer or importer, which include an amount for reduction in the product’s value and in some cases compensation for damages or loss.
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Follow Up By: Neihoh - Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 12:37

Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 12:37
Yep. I am talking about BFG's 6 year warranty and Toyo's lifetime warranty which is probably a bit beyond the statutory warranty requirements. Not enough people use the threat of statutory warranty which is applicable under many circumstances once the express warranty has expire, and I have used it with satisfaction many times. Most vendors know all about it and become ... compliant once you mention "statutory warranty" in conversation.
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Reply By: andrew t - Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 17:30

Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 17:30
if you get the toyos you will wear them out long before you need to worry about a warranty, bloody good tyre the toyos have them on 3 4wds and love them, best tyre on the market.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 18:26

Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 18:26
Hi Andrew

Same here, have the new AT2 Opat and they are a fantastic tyre and wear far better than my previous Bridgestones.

As for the BFG tyres, had them on our Ultimate camper and type were crap.

One trip up the Birdsville track and they were very badly chipped. Others here on the forum that have no idea tries to blame it on the camper, saying they pick up all the stones thrown up by the car. I know a guy that had a brand new Prado and headed up to Birdsville with brand new BFG tyre on before the trip.

They chipped just as bad as my camper. I put a new set of the Toyo's on the camper before this years trip, that included the Tanami, the Duncan Road, large sections of the Gibb River Road, the Central Arnhem Highway and around Nhulunbuy............all up over 10,000 kms and not one mark on the Toyo's and still look like new.

So now let them tell me the BFG's are a better tyre......they sure are for chipping.




Cheers


Stephen
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 23:14

Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 23:14
Hi Stephen,

Were your BFGs the original KOs or the new KO2s?

I had original KOs on my Prado and agree, they did chip badly. I also had them on my Kimberley Karavan (2200kg) and they didn't chip, or if they did it was minor.

It is now some years later with a new tug (2014 BT50 with GVM upgrade, always heavy at 3200kg) but same van. KO2s all round. They've done about 40,000km in total, much of it on tough roads - a very rough Plenty Hwy, extensive travel on dirt in the East McDonnell Ranges, Chambers Pillar, Old Ghan to Finke, Old Andado Track, tooling around Dalhousie and Mt Dare, etc. Also a bit of playing around on rough tracks in the Snowies, Grampians, Vic High Country and some closer to home. No chipping at all.

I keep buying them because I keep coming home with the same six road tyres and the same two spares that I left with and with the KO2s BFG seem to have fixed the chipping issue.

Well, that's my experience anyway.

Cheers

Frank
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Saturday, Dec 16, 2017 at 13:09

Saturday, Dec 16, 2017 at 13:09
Hi Frank

I would have to check on the camper spare to which one it is, but seeing the way they chipped from a tyre that should stand up to our outback roads leaves a lot to be desired.

I have had 4 sets of the Bridgestone in the past, fantastic off road tyre, but not happy with their wear. I had heard so many good things about the BFG tyres and got a pric before seeing how crap they were and chipped.

In my 17" size they wanted $410 per tyre for the BFG, $320 per tyre for more Bridgestone or $240 for the new Toyo, so it is a no brainer and went for the Toyo.

So far they are wearing far better than the Bridgestones, not one mark on them after more than 20,000 kilometres of true outback roads and at $170 per tyre dearer than the BGF I am not prepared to give them a chance. The only way I would ever go with them if BFG gave me a set to try and can prove they will not chip and more than double the tyre life of the Toyo.....which they would not.

So for $680 if feel I am miles in front of the BFG. When not on trips, my Prado sits in the carport and not used, so in terms of tyre life based on my trips, my tyres do around 85% of their life on outback dirt roads, so in no way do they get an easy bitumen life.

Each to their own choice, but the new Toyo AT LT Opat 2 are now my choice of tyre until someone can gaurantee me a better quality tyre for the same price.



Cheers




Stephen
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Saturday, Dec 16, 2017 at 17:20

Saturday, Dec 16, 2017 at 17:20
Thanks Stephen.

I didn't pay anywhere near $410 for my BFGs - $1600 for 5, = $320ea 20 months ago.

I've heard many good things about Toyos here and elsewhere and might try them as my next set - especially at $240 as an indicative price point.

cheers

Frank

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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Saturday, Dec 16, 2017 at 18:21

Saturday, Dec 16, 2017 at 18:21
Hi Frank

That was a great price for your BFG's, the same price as it was going to be for the Bridgestone's.

I am not sure if being 17" they are dearer, as when I put them on the camper, they were only $235 per tyre.

There was just too much difference between the 697's at $320 and the Toyo's for $240 that I was prepared to take the chance, and it was paid off.


Seasons Greetings to you and your family.




Cheers



Stephen
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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 11:07

Monday, Dec 18, 2017 at 11:07
BFGs in LT 285/70/17 the 'new' compound KO2 are anywhere upto $480 retail out our way ....3 dealers including local Toyota dealer who was the cheapest at $462.
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Reply By: andrew t - Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 20:24

Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 20:24
we put a set of the toyo open country a/t 2 on the prado to do the trip over the west out to steep point and the gibb and they were fantastic tyres never had a problem with them that was over 60,000 km ago and they still have about half tread. I put a set of the a/t on the old troopy with the split rims years ago and have had good use in the vic high country and vic desert country as well and had no problems so much so that when a set came up second hand at a good price on steel rims for the new troopy i grabbed them. cant beat a well made japanese tyre
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Reply By: IvanTheTerrible - Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 23:30

Friday, Dec 15, 2017 at 23:30
From Toyo's website.

"
Toyo Tires Warranty And Service Policy
This policy applies to all tyres bearing the Toyo Tires brand and serial number that are imported and distributed by Toyo Tyre & Rubber Australia Limited, and sold by Toyo Tires’ authorised resellers in Australia"

So they will not warranty from anybody!

This is becoming common as ebay is becoming bigger. We have been told not to except warranty returns unless they are sold by a physical shop.
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Follow Up By: Neihoh - Tuesday, Dec 19, 2017 at 00:35

Tuesday, Dec 19, 2017 at 00:35
As I said above; I know this discussion is getting long but...I will be relying in the express, considered and explicit advice from Toyo, if need be;
Me "Hi, can you please confirm or otherwise, that Toyo tyres purchased from ######.com have the same warranty and conditions to those purchased from "bricks n mortar" outlets?"

Toyo: "Thanks for your question. Please stand by as we contact the appropriate department for an answer".

Toyo: "any product related warranties will be covered by Toyo's manufacturer product warranty."

Apart from anything else this is more recent than the warranty condition you post. It might not apply to you because you didnt ask them and get the answer. I did ask and got the answer and this answer induced me to buy their product because they said their warranty applied no matter that I bought it from #####.com. Then again #####.com might be an authorised reseller, but they didnt say that and it doesn't matter.

They can't say this shit and then go, "oh, you didnt buy them from an "authorised reseller" so bugger off. I named the online seller in the question to them and it wasnt "Ebay".
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Reply By: dirvine - Saturday, Dec 16, 2017 at 13:52

Saturday, Dec 16, 2017 at 13:52
When looking for tyres recently I wanted to purchase BFG KO TA 265/65/18. Some had a rating of 114/117 ($215) and others 122 ($245). When I spoke to JAX Tyres, they said the 114/117 were grey imports. I priced around and found a very large tyre shop in Mt Derrimut to supply me tyres. They fitted me with the 114/117 rating tyres. When i said they were grey imports they said they got them from BFG direct. I rang BFG and they said they do not supply them as they are for America and Europe not Australian conditions. I have a written letter from the tyre place saying they will cover any warranty issues should they arise. I just wonder who is telling fibs here. I have had a look at the 122 tyres and the construction looks the same. ie the number of bias and plys are the same. Only difference is the speed and weight rating. Given I am not likely to drive at 210KPH, its really not an issue, and the load rating is well above my cars axle ratings. will be interested to see how they perform.
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Saturday, Dec 16, 2017 at 14:34

Saturday, Dec 16, 2017 at 14:34
A couple of years ago I met up with an ex BFG rep and he told me the same as what BFG have told you
They are both genuine BFG tyres but not both made for Australian conditions
He said he could tell when a tyre retailer was getting grey imports in as they are visibly different to the trained eye to the Aussie version
They are made in a different factory and country to our designated stock

I had a warranty claim on a set of Mickey Thompsons and the first thing they did was check the tyre serial numbers to ascertain they were not grey imports. After that they were more than fair in compensating me with a replacement set
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Follow Up By: dirvine - Saturday, Dec 16, 2017 at 16:20

Saturday, Dec 16, 2017 at 16:20
Not sure about different factory, but they are made in USA. as are the legit ones. I not sure what makes our conditions any different to say some parts of the USA, so I think it might be just an excuse to be able to charge us more. The ratings of the "grey" imports are the same or better ratings that are on my vehicle in stock form. I love to know what conditions the tyres are not suitable for.
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Follow Up By: gbc - Sunday, Dec 17, 2017 at 08:46

Sunday, Dec 17, 2017 at 08:46
Just to create more confusion, the 114 rated ones are a couple of kilos heavier than the 122’s. How does that work? There has to be a reason that BFGoodrich would manufacture and sell two almost identical tyres with different load ratings. I would guess it might be to address a vehicle manufacturer/registration cutoff point scenario more than anything else. I assumed one would be a winter tyre but I was wrong.
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Follow Up By: Neihoh - Tuesday, Dec 19, 2017 at 00:42

Tuesday, Dec 19, 2017 at 00:42
dirvine, I read a lot of reviews that were not complimentary to the BFG KO2 and ruing that the older version was better. Of course there are many compliments too. I did see one set of reviews of about 300, and 90+ were 1 or 2 stars. Hard to find a bad word about the Toyo OP TAs.
Either way am sure you will get to where youre going.
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