Caravan Tare vs GTM vs Axle Group Rating

Not quite right, The GTM is the weight sitting on the axles of the van, ATM is the total of the weight sitting on the Axles and the Tow Ball.
So I think what you'll find is that depending on whether the van is single axle or dual your ATM will probably be around 400kgs higher than your Tare.
On the Plate you should have the Ball Weight as well, so a general rule of thumb to get your ATM add the Ball weight to the GTM

Many thanks for the reply.
I'm currently looking for a 17-18ft off road van with ensuite.
Was interested in early model Bushtrackers but they're awfully heavy on the ball as are many others.
Saw the above stated weights advertised for a JB off roader and it didn't make sense to me. Hence the post.
Thanks for your concern too, been reading plenty on overweight vans and ball weights.
Previously owned a kitted 80 Series for serious off roading and remote remote travelling, either RTT or swagging it, always weight conscious.
Now things are a bit more complicated, I now have a 04 TD LC to tow a off road van which is about to be fitted out, LR tank, single rear wheel carrier, draws, steel roof rack & front sport bar. Ill wait till complete then weigh to see how much I have to play with for ball weights (with consideration to all the extra fuel weight etc).
Thanks again,
Steve

so a general rule of thumb to get your ATM add the Ball weight to the GTM
Not sure you have it right Notso, Im guessing a typo
ATM is always more the GTM.
https://infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/vsb1/vsb_01_b.aspx#8

So my take is as from the following
https://infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/vsb1/vsb_01_b.aspx#8
Tare: Empty van meaning no extra's fittings from stock and/or empty tanks (EG: 2000kgs)
GTM: Manufacturers Max load rating.(EG:2400kgs)
ATM: Manufacturers Max load rating plus ball weight.(EG: GTM2400kgs + Ball 200kgs = 2600 kgs)

Want I don't understand is that every vans compliance plate I've looked the numbers never matches up to the ATM.

"On the Plate you should have the Ball Weight as well, so a general rule of thumb to get your ATM add the Ball weight to the GTM."
Nope that is definitely correct

GTM is what is sitting on the axles of the van.
Ball weight is what is sitting on the jockey wheel or the towball.
The ATM is the combination of the Ball Weight and the GTM.

sorry my mistake aggrigate trailer mass (atm) = gross trailer mass
(gtm) + ball weight.

that still only leaves a payload of 300ish kg .... with 190kg in the water tanks that leaves about a slab of beer a bag of spuds and the average womans suit case.

in all seriousness you better be using light weight crockery and aluminium cookwear if you have any hope of putting that over the scales at the rated figures

cheers

Yes, it'd be unusual if the stated Tare Mass was accurate and a trip to the local weighbridge would be an interesting exercise.

I took this up with the dealer for a well known manufacturer, the reply?
“Well don’t fill the water tanks”!

Are the figures stamped on the compliance plate or scratched on? Are you certain the GTM reads 2120 and not 2470 ? Easily confused if scratched on.

Regards

who says the ATM is 2600?

Cruiser,

I have researched this extensively and can speak with confidence.

The ATM if provided is what the manufacturer says it is. Forget about 120% of whatever. If the ATM is plated at 2600, then that is the max mass of the van standing by itself (ie, wheels and jockey) on a weighbridge and fully loaded.

The GTM is the maximum weight allowed to be carried by the wheels. So move the van forward so the jockey is off the weighbridge and weigh. That figure is not allowed to be above the plated GTM. In your example that is 2120.

Usually, and I emphasise USUALLY, the difference between ATM and GTM is the allowable ballweight- in your example 2600-2120=480.

BUT the ballweight can be limited by the manufacturer of the tow vehicle, or by the manufacturer of the towbar, or by the manufacturer of the van.

In your example the van manufacturer has specified a max ballweight of 130kg - perhaps because of the design of the A frame or whatever.

So to load your van to the max permissible and meet the regulations, you can load it so the weight on the wheels is 2120 AND the towball weight is 130, total 2250.

That is well short of the plated ATM and is an example of the total confusion that surrounds this topic. In many cases it has been shown that the manufacturer doesn't understand the terminology and concepts, and yours appears to such a case.

Now, IF the tare is accurate (you should get the van weighed), then your actual load capacity is 2250 - 1952= 298kg.

Cheers

You don’t forget it just because you don’t understand it!
The 120% figure is used to calculate the required axle capacity, so on the basis his axle is underrated, simple.

Fair enough Shaker, I believe you are correct, but isn't that a design issue? Ie, it's not part of the end user's considerations when loading the van, which is why I said forget it.

Cruiser, I wrote the attached for my club. You might find it useful.

Cheers

The ball weight stamped by the manufacturer is the weight on the ball as the van comes out of the factory and has nothing to do with max weight on the ball

So according to the figures above to reach the Stated ATM of 2600kg you would need 480kg sitting on the tow ball. eg. 2120 + 480 = 2600.

Don't know many vehicles that will take that.

The compliance plate on mine says:

Tare 1749kg
GTM 3400kg
ATM 2150

Figure that one out?

A non-compliant compliance plate, Notso :-)

It doesn't make sense, does it?

What is on your rego papers?

Only has the Tare I think.

I'm looking forward to all the LC owners having conniptions at that comment

Mikee
Motor vehicles don't have a GTM. Did you mean GVM?

But in all aspects you are correct in your caution.

GVM, sorry my mistake.
Tare LC100: 2352
GVM 3180
Therefore payload = 828kg
Payload includes driver, passengers, fuel, all accessories eg bull bar, extra battery, extra spare wheel plus bracket, roof rack and load, drawers, fridge, and Ballweight.
It sure doesn't go far.
Rear axle max weight 1950kg, front axle max weight 1550.
I own an HZJ105 and have been through this myself, it is a minefield.

Hi Mikee,
I previously kitted out my 80 Series with paying attention to weights.
As for being over weight on the rear when kitted you have to consider the following.
The rear seats have come out for the draws to go in. The spare wheel underneath will be relocated to the rear single wheel carrier (no steel rear bar). The sub tank is removed and replaced with a 182L tank.
So doing math, yes It will add more weight but but some weight has already been removed for upgrades.
The rear seats way more then the draws. LR tank will add approx 140kgs when full, keeping in mind i ve removed the sub tank which ways approx 48kgs when full, the rear wheel carrier is approx 20kgs. Roof rack and tent is approx 70kgs over rear axle.
04 LC TD Kakadu
Tare: 2477
Kerb: 2655
GVM: 3260
I'm travelling alone.
There wont be a great deal in the hauler as most will be in the van that is if I can find one with a reasonable ball weight.
My last resort will be to removed the rear passenger bench seat and replace with a extension of the rear draws and cage with 100L water bladder if weights permit.
Exciting times and the challenge to get everything done within specs.

Many thanks Mikee,
You've made me redo my calculations and yes i'd be over weight. Just cancelled the roof rack and tent.
You have to love this forum.

It is so damn easy to overload these 4wd passenger cars.

some of them have a total payload as shipped of 400Kg ... and the fuel tanks are not full.

so put 4 adults, their swag and a slab of beer in them and you are busted.

Seen so many accounts of 4wd wagons overloaded.

Bullbar, winch, roof rack, rear rack with 2 spares, long range fuel tanks and a set of draws ...... it's already overloaded before there are any bums on seats or gear in it.

cheers