15 amp to 10 amp cord

Submitted: Friday, Feb 23, 2018 at 17:44
ThreadID: 136312 Views:3614 Replies:16 FollowUps:76
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Hi folks just bought a caravan and was about to charge from home not realising the 15 amp cord does not fit into the 10 amp on the wall the converters I’ve seen are expensive is there a cheaper way of plugging it into the wall ?
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Reply By: Member - Rod N (QLD) - Friday, Feb 23, 2018 at 17:56

Friday, Feb 23, 2018 at 17:56
No. The only ways of doing it are to purchase an Ampfibian or have a 15 amp power outlet fitted to your home. If you Google it you can get one for about $80.
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Reply By: Member - Bigfish - Friday, Feb 23, 2018 at 18:44

Friday, Feb 23, 2018 at 18:44
Just buy a male or female 15 amp plug and a 10amp male/female plug and 2 foot of cable . Make your own. Thousands of others have...thats if they dont grind the male earth 15amp connector.
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Follow Up By: mountainman - Friday, Feb 23, 2018 at 18:57

Friday, Feb 23, 2018 at 18:57
I honestly dont see the point in that.
Considering the van could have possibly cost the owner a couple thousand to up to many tens of thousands.
An extra $80 that buys you the proper comnection is ideal so you dont have a insurance clause when your van potentially burns down.
Along with thousands of dollars in contents.
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Follow Up By: Member - Rod N (QLD) - Friday, Feb 23, 2018 at 18:57

Friday, Feb 23, 2018 at 18:57
I don't think promoting illegal practices on the forum is very good.
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Follow Up By: Genny - Friday, Feb 23, 2018 at 20:26

Friday, Feb 23, 2018 at 20:26
Another forum just booted a gaggle of members for offering similar illegal advice on the same subject.
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Follow Up By: Paul E6 - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 01:37

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 01:37
Count me in then.
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Reply By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Friday, Feb 23, 2018 at 19:27

Friday, Feb 23, 2018 at 19:27
.
As has been said, the only legal and fully safe way is to either have a 15A power outlet installed or to use an approved product that connects the 15A caravan plug to a 10A power outlet. Two such products are the Amfibian at about $80 and the Jaycar Adapter at $89.95 (non weatherproof). Both of these limit the load on your house wiring to 10 Amps. They simply disconnect if the current exceeds 10 Amps.
The (illegal) adapters using a 10A plug and a 15A socket joined by a short flex allow connection but without the current limiting safeguard. Furthermore, you lose insurance cover in the event of a fire or other event.
Similarly, filing down the earth pin of the 15A plug to allow it to enter a 10A power outlet does not limit the load on the house wiring. What is of even more concern is that filing the earth pin can render the plug unsafe due to loss of the earth circuit protection. Most earth pins of today are not of solid brass but are constructed by folding thin brass to achieve the required dimension of the earth pin. When filed, sections of the folded pin are lost and it loses form and strength with possible unreliable connection to the power outlet.
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Reply By: Johnnykluger - Friday, Feb 23, 2018 at 21:09

Friday, Feb 23, 2018 at 21:09
Thanks everybody I just bought the amphibian adapter for peace of mind thanks everyone
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Reply By: Tim F3 - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 06:26

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 06:26
Aldi and others sell a 240v lead made with a 10 amp plug one end and 15 amp the other end ..
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Follow Up By: terryt - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 07:15

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 07:15
But that's illegal isn't it?
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Follow Up By: Iza B - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 07:25

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 07:25
No they are not illegal, they are not compliant with the AS whatever and their use in connecting anything to grid power is prohibited via that Australian Standard. Perfectly legal to use them for, say, connecting a generator to a caravan. The reason for the prohibition for connecting to grid power is as described elsewhere but in the example of a 2KVA generator, the generator becomes the inherent current limiting component in the system.

I do wish the experts would stick to offering technical advice and let qualified people like lawyers, to giving legal advice.

Iza
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 11:21

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 11:21
Oh Come on Iza - this is the Exploroz Forum - everyone considers themselves to be an expert on all topics.
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 12:05

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 12:05
"No they are not illegal, they are not compliant with the AS whatever and their use in connecting anything to grid power is prohibited via that Australian Standard. Perfectly legal to use them for, say, connecting a generator to a caravan."

That is.wrong. The standards covering the construction of power cords prohibits constructing power leads with a plug and a socket of different current ratings. Simply having a lead with different plug and socket ratings is committing an offence.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 12:28

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 12:28
.
Yes Peter, I agree with you. Iza is quite wrong.

The construction of mains extension cables is defined under the regulations pertaining to Electrical Appliances and the plug & socket at each end must be of the same specification. It is not lawful to sell non-conforming appliances in Australia and certainly not legal to construct your own.

Iza is also wrong in differentiating between "grid" supply and "generator" supply. The "rules" regarding electrical safety recognise that the hazards of electric shock exist regardless of the source and are defined accordingly.

Iza also needs to be aware that in order to become an "expert" in electrical engineering that it is also a requirement to be adequately familiar with the legal regulations applying to that subject.

For some reason, many people believe that they posses expertise with electrical matters even though they have been neither trained nor tested in those matters. Because they are not fully skilled, they are unable to fully comprehend all aspects and in particular, the safety aspects of electrical devices and installations. It is what they don't know that is the danger. Their tinkering is a risk to themselves and their advice is a risk to others.
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Follow Up By: Iza B - Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 11:29

Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 11:29
Can anyone point to a legal precedence showing where someone has been prosecuted for having a non-compliant cord in their possession? Paid for, Legal advise, tells me there is no such precedence.

So again, would the experts please stick to technical advice and leave the legal stuff to the qualified?

Iza
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 12:41

Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 12:41
Iza, no one in this thread mentioned anything about prosecutions in the thread following Reply 5. Alan and I are sticking to the rules and what is taught to tradesmen. We are commenting on engineering rules. The standards do not allow for 240 V power cords with a plug and socket having different current ratings. What you stated above is out of order. The Australian electrical standards have been incorporated into legislation. The legislation includes penalties for kicking over the traces. Just because we can not tell you if and when people have been prosecuted it does not mean that people transgressing the laws can not be prosecuted in the future.

Stop being a sore looser.
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 20:23

Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 20:23
Iza...I posses an illegal lead, and while I am an electrical fitter and fully understand that it only powers a battery charger in the van while at home, I do NOT post up and imply it is OK for anyone to own or use one. I may even get off my backside and replace the 10A power point with a 15A one ?
Rule wise AND legally, it is a no no, and you should know that ..
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Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 07:13

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 07:13
Johnny,

Noticed you have bought the Ampfibian, which is an excellent device.
For other readers who cannot justify the higher cost, you can buy a legal adapter from Jaycar for as little as $80.00.

Jaycar 15a to 10a waterproof adapter $119.00

Even cheaper is this one if you don't require a weatherproof solution.
Jaycar 15a to 10a adapter non weatherproof $79.95
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 11:58

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 11:58
They may be OK to use in some situations. Just do not use them in exposed situations. That includes plugging them into weatherproof power points or where a weatherproof power point would be required if one was being installed.

The adaptors must not be connected to a power lead, they must be plugged into a power point in a protected place. Also they can only be connected to a van with one length of power cord..

If you are connecting to a weatherproof power point you need one of the more expensive weather-resistant (IP55 or better) models. The cheapest I would recommend is Ampfibian RV-PLUS 15A To 10A Caravan Power Adaptor. There is also another at $185 that is also approved for commercial purposes as well as caravan use.
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Reply By: Dion - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 08:08

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 08:08
I wouldn't even bother with the above mentioned adapters, they limit what you can do in the caravan. People that buy these adapters are like people walking into a tackle shop looking at fancy lures, lures are designed to catch people, not fish!
To take the caravan to a caravan park, you will need a 15A cord with 15A male and female ends on it anyway - not an adapter.
Do the job properly at home, have a 15A outlet and circuit installed by an electrician. This simplifies and standardises the process then every time you need to plug the caravan in, and thus doesn't limit what you do with the caravan when you use it at home.
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Follow Up By: Genny - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 09:45

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 09:45
If I was in the same position, I would get the 15A power point too.

The one benefit of the adapters is their portability - you can park up at a relatives place, or Farmer Joe's irrigation bore and still have the use of some power, and your benefactor can be sure you will not damage THEIR electrical equipment.
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 12:14

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 12:14
Dion, please explain how owning an approved IP55 power adaptor "limit what you can do in the caravan." Even if someone owns an adaptor I still recommend having a weatherproof power point installed near where they park their van if possible.

However when you are away from home without an approved adaptor you may limit what you can do in the caravan.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 13:26

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 13:26
.
Perhaps an overview may be helpful to some.

1) Caravans are fitted with multiple 230v power outlets each of which may accomodate appliances rated at up to 10 Amps. Accordingly, it is possible to attempt to draw excessive current and the caravan is fitted with circuit breaker(s) which will limit that current to 15 Amps. The caravan now effectively becomes an 'appliance' that may attempt to draw 15A from its supply source.

2) Because of the above, the caravan input is fitted with 15A rated plugs and cable, and the caravan parks have accomodating 15A power outlets.
Even if, on occasion, you intend to only draw less than the maximum of 15A, say only a few Amps to operate the battery charger or fridge, the possibility exists to draw more and if you connect the van to a 10A power outlet you may overload the outlet and the building cable supplying it. Hence the regulations prohibiting this action.

3) Some may argue that the building cable and circuit breaker are rated at 16 or 20 Amps and therefore capable of supplying the van with 15A. However this makes no regard for other outlets and connected appliances within the building on the same circuit and contributing to the total load. A dedicated 15A rated power outlet has its own exclusive cable and circuit breaker and can support the 15A load.

4) The regulations relating to these electrical installations take into regard the possibilities that may cause damage or injury and are composed accordingly.

5) Modifying or constructing the connecting extension cord to allow the 15A caravan to be connected to a 10A rated power outlet is not lawful. It may not be specifically dangerous if used within limitations but may cause injury or fire if used beyond those limitations, either inadvertently or intentionally.

6) The only lawful and safe arrangement is to connect only to a dedicated 15A power outlet or incorporate a current limiting device such as an "Ampfibian" or similar which effectively makes the van a '10 Amp appliance'.

7) Much the same applies when connecting a portable generator to the caravan's input. If the generator is fitted with 15A rated outlet sockets then there is no problem. If however the generator has only 10A sockets then the correct procedure would be to use current limiting as in 6) above.
Even though the generator is fitted with overload protection the manufacturer may consider that, as its output is limited, there is no reason to create a false impression by using 'oversized' 15A output sockets.
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Follow Up By: Zippo - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 14:13

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 14:13
Allan, I am generally in full agreement with your posts on electrical matters but I feel that "you may overload the outlet and the building cable supplying it." is incorrect regarding the cable itself. The role of the final sub-circuit protection device is to protect that very cable to the outlet, and the cable and protection device are selected to achieve that very result.

The limitation is the OUTLET itself, which (GPO aka switched socket outlet) which is rated at 10A. In fact the assumption made by AS3000 and associated standards is that any attached device with a compatible/compliant (and 10A rated) plug will not exceed the rating of the outlet, except under fault conditions.

Ironically, the UK final sub-circuit system is generally a loop, with protection provided AT THE OUTLET ITSELF rather than at the circuit source.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 15:15

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 15:15
No Zippo, I said.... "the possibility exists to draw more and if you connect the van to a 10A power outlet you may overload the OUTLET and the building CABLE supplying it." I did not say or infer that the overload would be uncontrollably maintained. What I said was absolutely correct. The circuit breaker will ultimately act to remove the overload although the outlet is perhaps at greater risk of permanent damage. Even so, the 10A rated combination power outlets are capable of sustaining significant overload.

Why is the UK system "ironic"? They apply protection within the appliance plug-top in the form of a fuse and is intended only as short-circuit fault protection only. The sub circuit overload protection is still applied at the distribution board. It provides improved discrimination of a fault by having the fuse rated to the appliance rather than to the collective sub circuit demand. It has benefits but also some practical disadvantages.
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Follow Up By: Dion - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 16:24

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 16:24
Nomadic Navara, if you use these devices, you limit the amount of current that you can use in the caravan at once, to 10A or whatever magical figure the device trips at. If using a 15A lead with 15A ends plugged into a 15A outlet, then you can use more appliances at once in the van.
I know radio technicians are used to working in miliamps and anything above a whole amp is foreign, but.....................
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 17:05

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 17:05
Dion, they are not a permanent fixture. You only drag them out when you you encounter a 10 A power point. Every other time you use your 15 A lead without the adaptor. (So much for your snide remarks but it looks like they have come back to bite you.)
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 17:44

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 17:44
Dion, they are not a permanent fixture. You only drag them out when you you encounter a 10 A power point. Every other time you use your 15 A lead without the adaptor. (So much for your snide remarks but it looks like they have come back to bite you.)
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Follow Up By: Dion - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 18:04

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 18:04
So you agree then, that when using these devices, current is limited and the full potential of the caravan can't be utilised?

Our "Milliamp Tramps" gave us the figure of one whole amp, above that, they didn't want to know about it and gave it to the "Kiloamp Champs"
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 20:34

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 20:34
Quote - "So you agree then, that when using these devices, current is limited and the full potential of the caravan can't be utilised?"

Where have I indicated otherwise? That is the whole purpose of the device, to limit the amount of power available when you should not be able to use the full 15 A when it is not available legally.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 20:40

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 20:40
.
Dion,

What are you on about?
Are you just trying to muddy the waters or are you looking for an argument?
You are not making worthwhile contribution to the thread.

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Allan

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Follow Up By: Sand Man (SA) - Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 11:09

Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 11:09
Read the original posters query.

He simply wants an adapter to charge his van while at home.
A simple 15a to 10a adapter will do this job admirably.
It is therefore a matter of whether it needs to be weatherproof or not.
Whether the van is under cover, or out in the open.

Folk get caught up in hysterical arguments because they don't confine their replies to what was originally sort.


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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 12:55

Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 12:55
Sand Man Bill we know what toe OP was asking. We have answered him elsewhere. Go back to the top of this sub-thread and read what the OP of this sub-thread said. We are dealing with him.

If you look down lower you will see where the the OP expressed some concern about the proceedings. I explained to him how these threads work and advised him to just pick out the things that applied to him. I also gave some advice to him regarding to what is required if he wishes to use an adaptor away from home. The original OP thanked me for both followups.

Don't worry yourself. all is good in the garden.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 13:00

Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 13:00
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No Bill,

Johnnykluger actually asked... "is there a cheaper way of plugging it into the wall"?

There are options and responders addressed those options and limitations. Of course, there were the usual responses questioning the validity of some of the responses, but they are always there looking for an argument. It must create confusing information to the Original Poster.

It may not matter if the van is not under cover, but choice of the Ampfibian is dependent on weather exposure.

Hope that did not come over as "hysterical". lol
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 16:47

Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 16:47
Silly old farts duelling at 10 paces.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 20:26

Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 20:26
I think it’s the ExplorOz Hair Splitting team!
"Jesus loves you"
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Follow Up By: Member - Outback Gazz - Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 20:56

Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 20:56
I think this site needs a sticky thread titled...


I'M RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG !


First topic could be - Are tyres actually round ??


That should create an argument between a lot of the GOF's on here lol ha ha

And if that doesn't get the argument started, try ..


Should I go left or right of a deep rut ??


Happy and safe travelling


Gazz
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 21:48

Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 21:48
.
Useful contributions from the Three Stooges! lol
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Follow Up By: Member - Outback Gazz - Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 22:01

Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 22:01
Best I not reply to that Allan


Cheers

Gazz
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Monday, Feb 26, 2018 at 16:17

Monday, Feb 26, 2018 at 16:17
Allan, you just increased the figure to four!
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Reply By: cookie1 - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 10:05

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 10:05
Glad you have undertaken the correct route and bought a current limiting adaptor

Houses have a 15 / 16A Fuse / MCB / RCBO and as such will allow that amount of current to flow, the problem is that the GPO that you are plugging into is only rated for 10A, as mentioned previously if your caravan catches fire and subsequently burns the house down then your insurance company have reasonable grounds to refuse your claim.

There are caravan parks out there now that require your leads to be tested and tagged, the reason is that their powerheads are being damaged due to worn and or burn't out connectors damaging their sockets, this costs them a considerable amount of money to repair.

I have just replaced the majority of the Powerheads at Cape Jaffa Caravan Park and there were some plugs actually melted to the sockets.

cheers

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Reply By: Johnnykluger - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 14:35

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 14:35
As I have explained before I am simply using the adapter to charge from home nothing else the adapter will be in the garage not being exposed to the weather however the Caravan being outside some part of the cord will .there is no risk of fire because there is a cutout switch on the amphibian I fail to se how this is an insurance risk as this is an approved adapter providing is is used properly there is no risk .the adapter is designed only for household use
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Follow Up By: terryt - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 14:53

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 14:53
I inadvertently got tangled up in a discussion like this some time ago and backed off pronto. I have read the preceding reasonably carefully and from a non technical background. Much is made of the possibility of burning your caravan to the ground and not haveing insurance cover. However, from what I can see the danger is to the plug you draw the power from not the van end at all. If I overload a 10 amp circuit in my house I blow a fuse or trip a breaker. Why won't this protection work just because a lead to the van is the cause of overload. I am just trying to get my head around it.
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 15:11

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 15:11
Johnnykluger, most of the discussion is not aimed at you. You are an exemplary example of what everyone should do. I don't know how long you have bee around forums but this is typical of what happens in them. You will often get people making silly or wrong statements or promote actions outside the law. These outside the law and inaccurate things need to be challenged to stop them from being propagated as truth. In turn people who really should not challenge the corrections do pitch in and create statements that should be challenged. The result is a few to many pages of bumph.

John, you just need to pick out the few things that applie to you and are correct and ignore the other 98%. Just hang in there mate.
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Follow Up By: Genny - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 15:12

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 15:12
The house circuit breaker will be 16 or 20 amps, and protects multiple power points each rated at 10 amps.

When you plug a 15 amp appliance into a 10 amp power point, the house circuit breaker won't give a rats rectum until you melt that 10 amp power point and it shorts out.

The ampfibian limits the current fed to the caravan to 10 amps, thus protecting the house power circuitry.
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 15:21

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 15:21
John, I should have included in my my last reply:

For use anywhere including showgrounds and other places where you travel, just select the cheapest model with an IP55 rating. SeeIP Code
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 15:55

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 15:55
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Re: "Johnnykluger" etc............

Peter, I could not have said it better.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 16:23

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 16:23
.
Terry, I think Mountainman was saying that if you were to have an insurance claim, any improper components could jeopardise your claim. I don't think he was scaremongering.

Yes, the most danger is to the overloaded power outlet and that could conceivably start a fire. Also, if the van was drawing the full 15Amp then that may be close to the full capacity of the circuit you are connected to, adding to the other users on that circuit it would maybe trip the breaker at the main board.

As the van is able to draw as much as 15A then it should be on its own 15a circuit or be limited by a Ampfibian or similar to 10A. Has that made it more clear?
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Reply By: phantom - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 16:34

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 16:34
What about a solar panel on the roof to keep the batteries topped up?
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Follow Up By: Johnnykluger - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 17:00

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 17:00
I have one but as I have a cover over the van it’s of no use
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Follow Up By: Member - peter_mcc - Monday, Feb 26, 2018 at 01:07

Monday, Feb 26, 2018 at 01:07
Put some bright lights on the roof above the solar panel - problem solved!
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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Monday, Feb 26, 2018 at 10:21

Monday, Feb 26, 2018 at 10:21
We park the OKA in the shed that has some polycarbonate sheeting that lets enough light in to keep the solar working enough.
You don't need much....

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
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Reply By: garrycol - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 17:06

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 17:06
If you just want to run the battery charger in the van why not just run a 10 amp extension cord into the van and plug the charger directly in the extension cord, bypassing the vans system all together.

That is how I charge my van battery at home as well as the car if it is not being used.
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Follow Up By: Sand Man (SA) - Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 11:14

Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 11:14
If the van's 240v charger input is permanently wired up, this may not be so simple.

Plugging into the van's 15a inlet is the easiest solution.
I used to use a 15a to 10a adapter, then wired up a 15a power outlet in the covered carport as the van is usually stored there.
Bill


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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 18:22

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 18:22
If you never need 15A input for the van, then there is nothing wrong with having a 10A input plug for the van (with an appropriately sized circuit breaker) and you will only ever need a 10A extension cord which you can legally plug into a 10A or a 15A outlet.
Why 15A inlets have become standard issue on caravans that don't need it is very strange.

We have no inlet power capability in the OKA at all. The solar is sufficient, so we don't care what power is available and don't need any extension cord or adaptor. :)

Cheers,
Peter
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 19:06

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 19:06
.
Well Peter, the only thing wrong with "having a 10A input plug for the van" is that AS/NZS 3001 stipulates that the supply lead shall have a rating of 15A and the plug and cord extension socket shall have a rating of 15A.
AS/NZS 3001 Scope covers "Vehicles offering accommodation, including caravans, camper vans, motor homes and camper trailers."

15A inlets on caravans have become "standard issue" in the interests of standardisation I guess. But don't shoot me, I didn't make the rules, I'm only the messenger.
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Follow Up By: terryt - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 19:56

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 19:56
I'm not sure who I am replying to. Allanb what you have said doesn't answer the question I asked. From what you and others have said it appears the only danger is non compliance with the regulations ( I bow down to them and would never transgress) No one seems to have explained how it is actually dangerous. Please tell me what could happen in the situation when the house is correctly wired and I inadvertantly draw 15 amps from the 10 amp house outlet
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 20:19

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 20:19
.
Sorry Terry, I'll try and do better.

If you connect a caravan to a 10A power outlet by whatever direct means, then it is possible to place the van's full load of 15A onto that sub circuit. Now in many cases it may handle that load without problem, but as there will be other power outlets also connected to that same sub circuit, then the total load on the circuit may exceed the rating of the protective circuit breaker causing it to trip and so lose power to all connected outlets. It is not dangerous and most unlikely that any harm will come from this (other than maybe losing your freezer contents) but it is not a good practice. Provided that the house installation conforms to the wiring regulations no dangerous event will occur.

If the van is connected to a dedicated 15A outlet then this has its own circuit and its own circuit breaker and can accordingly accomodate the full 15A van load if need be. If the van is connected via a Ampfibian device then that simply provides an additional 10A circuit breaker into the van connection which limits the van demand and only places a 10A load at most onto the outlet to which it is connected. Of course, the van may attempt to draw more than 10A which will trip the Ampfibian breaker to interrupt supply to the van. Management of the van load is required.
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Follow Up By: terryt - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 21:54

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 21:54
So as I have been trying to say from day 1 the risk of a disaster is somewhere between buckleys and none
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Follow Up By: Dion - Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 00:24

Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 00:24
I don't think 120km/h is particularly dangerous either. But despite that, other than in the NT where signposted, there are laws with which I must comply where I can't exceed 110km/h.
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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 09:22

Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 09:22
Dion, I don't understand what your comment has to do with the subject of this post.

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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 11:11

Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 11:11
Allan said..............
"Well Peter, the only thing wrong with "having a 10A input plug for the van" is that AS/NZS 3001 stipulates that the supply lead shall have a rating of 15A and the plug and cord extension socket shall have a rating of 15A.
AS/NZS 3001 Scope covers "Vehicles offering accommodation, including caravans, camper vans, motor homes and camper trailers."

15A inlets on caravans have become "standard issue" in the interests of standardisation I guess. But don't shoot me, I didn't make the rules, I'm only the messenger."

I can't find that Allan. Can you point me in the right direction please?
I did find this (out of date) reference, but no mention of 15A Vs 10A inlets there....
https://vicparks.com.au/app/uploads/2016/02/as3001_2001-electrical-installations-relocatable-premises.pdf

Cheers,
Peter
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Follow Up By: Iza B - Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 11:23

Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 11:23
I have never needed for my van or camper or MH to draw 15A. A 10A, properly protected inlet on the van does away with any need for 15 Amp leads or non-compliant cords. A 10 Amp inlet on the van is a better equivalent of the putative Ampfibian because it does away with one more connection.

The rigid adherence to having a van inlet wired for 15A belongs back in the day of the 10 foot Bondwood jobbie spending 4 weeks a year at the seaside caravan park.

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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 12:44

Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 12:44
.
Yes Peter, your copy of AS/NZS 3001 (Dec 2001) is out of date. It was reissued incorporating Amendment No. 1 in June 2012.

Clause 5.1.2(c)(i) now specifies "a cord extension socket... with a minimum rating of 15A".

The original edition of the standard did not specify the current rating of the plugs but referred only to Standards 3120 and 3123 which describe the design and testing of plug and sockets.

I have attached below screen grabs of the sections of both current and old standards .


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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 15:57

Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 15:57
Makes absolutely no sense to me why 15A should be specified, but thank you.

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 20:29

Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 20:29
One reason is a lot of vans have aircon....and a cooktop....and a kettle...and an inverter....and a TV....and a coffee maker etc, etc !!
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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 20:38

Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 20:38
And lots of houses have 3 phase too, for those bigger loads, but it is not compulsory if you don't need it.

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196motorhome
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 22:28

Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 22:28
But it is compulsory, whether you want or need it.
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Follow Up By: skulldug - Monday, Feb 26, 2018 at 14:02

Monday, Feb 26, 2018 at 14:02
I apologise in advance to the OP for prolonging this discussion but.... is someone able to tell us what legislation refers to the standards mentioned above that make them mandatory?

A standard in itself is not a law. In fact, Standards Australia are a company and not part of government.

Unless I have missed it, those advising that it is illegal to say join two power cords together have referred to the Australian Standard but not the legislation.

I'm not questioning that it is illegal (I don't know), only asking what the name of the relavent law is.

Skull
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Monday, Feb 26, 2018 at 18:26

Monday, Feb 26, 2018 at 18:26
.
Yes Skull, easy one.

The legislation embracing electrical safety is managed at State level. Each State has its own regulations and they each employ the appropriate Australian Standard.

In Queensland it is the "Electrical Safety Regulations 2013" which are contained in the "Electrical Safety Act 2002". Each state has similar Regulations and Acts although there can be differences in detail which requires attention to detail when working in differing states. As far as I am aware, the regulations applying to caravan parks and transportable vehicles (caravans) is the same in each state, using AS/NZS 3001.

As you say, a "Standard" is not law but its publications are frequently used in legislation to apply the "Law".

"Standards Australia" is a Pty Ltd Not-for-Profit enterprise with a Royal Charter.
Their publications are marketed by the division 'SAI Global'.
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Follow Up By: skulldug - Monday, Feb 26, 2018 at 18:48

Monday, Feb 26, 2018 at 18:48
Thanks Allan,

I’m from Adelaide where all things electrical are either questionable, suspect or too expensive.
:)
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Monday, Feb 26, 2018 at 19:15

Monday, Feb 26, 2018 at 19:15
.
Well Skull, for me it all started in Adelaide long ago when electricians were not even licensed and anyone could perform electrical installations but were required to have the work inspected and approved. Even so, there were Rules, the first Australian electrical standard was published in 1931, so It is even older than me.... just!
By 1950 the "SAA Wiring Rules" as it was called was less than 100 pages, now almost 400, so it requires more attention today!

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Allan

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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Monday, Feb 26, 2018 at 20:51

Monday, Feb 26, 2018 at 20:51
I find it quite amazing that 240V power, water, gas and other physical things behave differently in each state, such that state-specific regulations are required.

At the risk of being moderated, may I say BULLSHIT!

Another glass of red required :-).

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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Monday, Feb 26, 2018 at 21:20

Monday, Feb 26, 2018 at 21:20
.
Frank, if someone were to ask each of us, you and I, our determination of a particular matter, its is likely that we would come up with differing responses.

So it is with State administration. They are separate bodies with separate views.

Whilst we have separate states we will have separate views.

We will only ever have uniformity when we have a single nation with single administration.
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Monday, Feb 26, 2018 at 21:58

Monday, Feb 26, 2018 at 21:58
Then bring it on, Allan.

The states were created in days long gone when long distance travel was onerous and resources such as reticulated electricity, gas and water were barely, if at all, available. If they were, they certainly did not cross state boundaries. What one state did barely, if at all, affected another.

Time for a revolution, I say :-)
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Reply By: Motherhen - Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 22:27

Saturday, Feb 24, 2018 at 22:27
Forget the illegal home made 'cheater cord'. Just get a 15 amp outlet and circuit fitted at your home.

The other alternative is to change the caravan inlet to 10 amp and use a 10 amp cord wherever you go.
Motherhen

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Reply By: Member - McLaren3030 - Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 16:13

Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 16:13
Guys, there is an interesting item in “Articles” on this forum regarding Electrical Cables. It is entitled “Using Power Leads” it is worth a read. Basically it explains why most Caravans & RV’s have 15 Amp inlets. It also emphasises as others have repeatedly noted in their response to this post, that it is ilegal to use a cable with different amp rated plugs on each end.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 17:28

Sunday, Feb 25, 2018 at 17:28
.
I'm sorry Macca but I was hoping that no-one would refer to that Article. It contains significant errors, but I am not prepared to engage in further argument here. It would only start another bun-fight.
Anyway, they are not errors that would kill anyone. At least, I hope so!

I do have some respect for the author, Collyn Rivers, but his qualifications and experience do not extend to power electrics, even though he writes convincingly on them. Collyn has experience in electronics and journalism, and in later years, in motorhomes but he is not even an electrician. He has success in authoring books on Recreational Vehicles but I found misleading or incorrect expressions in some of them. On one significant matter, my communication to him went unanswered. Caveat emptor!

Now before anyone takes issue with my statement, I will not engage in argument about it other than privately with qualified persons who can appreciate the subject. If Collyn wishes to contact me I will be happy to deal with it.
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Monday, Feb 26, 2018 at 08:11

Monday, Feb 26, 2018 at 08:11
Hi Allan, thanks for that. If article contains significant errors that could lead to someone being hurt, or being found guilty of committing an offence by following the advice suggested in the article, or contains information that is no longer correct owing to changes in legislation, then perhaps the administrators of this site should take it off the site.

Macca.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Monday, Feb 26, 2018 at 16:34

Monday, Feb 26, 2018 at 16:34
.
Macca,
I cannot respond to your above "perhaps".

Difficult to challenge such publications. Most, as with those of that author, contain solid disclaimers on the first page!
Although those books were once available on the "EO Shop" website. They are no longer listed.
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Banjo (WA) - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2018 at 09:53

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2018 at 09:53
Allan,

Not disputing whether the books by Collyn Rivers are correct or not as I wouldn't know.

However implying that there is something wrong with the information by stating that the books are no longer listed on the EO shop website is misleading.

The shop site is clearly closing down and as items are sold the total number of listings reduces by one. Currently there are only 24 items left.

Paul
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2018 at 10:22

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2018 at 10:22
.
Paul,

There was no "implication".

Listed, available, catalogued, inventorised, for sale, what is the difference?
My intention was to convey that the product referred to was no longer able to be purchased from this site.

And if you insist on precision, there are in fact still 25 product categories still listed as of a few minutes ago.
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Banjo (WA) - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2018 at 10:35

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2018 at 10:35
I must have viewed your comment differently, sorry.

Anyway your EO shop may have 25, mine still shows 24.

Paul
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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Monday, Mar 05, 2018 at 10:19

Monday, Mar 05, 2018 at 10:19
My screen shows 25 at this time however I will keep a very close eye on it and endeavour to keep members up to date.
Dave.
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Follow Up By: Banjo (WA) - Tuesday, Mar 06, 2018 at 07:50

Tuesday, Mar 06, 2018 at 07:50


Beats me
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Tuesday, Mar 06, 2018 at 11:00

Tuesday, Mar 06, 2018 at 11:00
.
Aha Paul, I can perceive where the difference is............

In the "Shop" is a Category "ExplorOz Branded Gear". In that category is an Item "Replacement Personal Member Sticker" bringing the total number of Items to 14.
In your view, being a non-member, this item does not appear, bringing the total number to only 13. Hence the difference of 24/25 Total Items.

An example of David's comprehensive programming.
Become a Member and all will be resolved for you. Only $29.95. lol

But we really must end this thread. It has gone way too far long ago.
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: garrycol - Tuesday, Mar 06, 2018 at 14:23

Tuesday, Mar 06, 2018 at 14:23
Does it matter if there is 23 or 24 or 25.

Who gives a toss.
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Reply By: Member - Outback Gazz - Monday, Feb 26, 2018 at 21:44

Monday, Feb 26, 2018 at 21:44
I wonder if Johnnykluger has got his caravan on charge yet or still reading through all the state and national regulations on how to plug in an extension cord ??
AnswerID: 617211

Follow Up By: Gronk - Tuesday, Feb 27, 2018 at 19:16

Tuesday, Feb 27, 2018 at 19:16
He gave up and hooked up the solar panel..lol
2
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Follow Up By: Johnnykluger - Wednesday, Feb 28, 2018 at 03:18

Wednesday, Feb 28, 2018 at 03:18
Sorry yes I stopped following have already started charging lol !!
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Reply By: Member - Boobook - Monday, Mar 05, 2018 at 03:45

Monday, Mar 05, 2018 at 03:45
The same day that the OP asked the question he got some advice, purchased a recommended legal device and even posted thanks. His thank you post was about the 8th post.

Yet in true EO forum style, people are still arguing about this subject ( for the 50th time).2 weeks and about 80 posts later.

Sheez. Does anyone else think it might be time to drop the argument?

Tony
200 with 2012 Tvan Canning.
Happiness >= your perception of the events in your life minus your expectation of how life should be.

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AnswerID: 617372

Follow Up By: KiwiAngler - Monday, Mar 05, 2018 at 11:57

Monday, Mar 05, 2018 at 11:57
I see the same thing ( people not reading ALL comments) in almost all the various forums, Facebook etc that I subscribe to
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