Has anyone ever heard of such a thing in S.A?

Submitted: Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 18:48
ThreadID: 136513 Views:2825 Replies:26 FollowUps:54
Found this on another site.


Has anyone ever heard of such a thing?

I have just copied this from another fb caravanning page please be aware of this if travelling in SA!!! I live in SA and was aware of the law but shocked at the 6 month disqualification

This week is a long message, but it is important that I share a member's story with you all. This story will hopefully expand your knowledge of road rules whilst driving in different states around the country. A member, on their way to Adelaide, drove past two police cars parked well off the side of the road (approximately 12m) with their lights flashing. They appeared to be talking to a motorist. The member states that she was driving approximately 85km/h at the time (the speed limit was 110km/h). She continued driving and not long after she saw lights of a police car flashing behind her, requesting her to pull over - which she did.

The police officer asked her speed, which she said was about 85km/h. He said she had been travelling at 83km/h and asked her if she was aware that the speed limit when driving by an emergency vehicle flashing their lights is 25km/h in South Australia? She was not aware of this. She tried to explain her case, but to no avail she was issued with an infringement notice - $1007 fine and an immediate 6 month driving disqualification. As a single traveller with a 49 year unblemished driving record, she was dumbfounded and confused with what had just happened. She comes from northern NSW and was intending to visit friends in Adelaide and now needs to find a place to store her campervan and organise travel back home.

It is crucial to have a thorough understanding of road rules and how they differ from state to state. Both VIC and QLD require motorists to slow down to 40km/h when driving near emergency vehicles with flashing lights. The purpose of this message is to explain the importance of understanding that road rules vary from state to state. I urge you all to do your research, it's better to be safe than sorry.

Safe travelling
Richard
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Reply By: IvanTheTerrible - Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 19:17

Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 19:17
Law came in in 2014. Victoria has just enacted the same thing but only 40Kmh. I was unaware it was 25 though
http://mylicence.sa.gov.au/road-rules/drive25
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Follow Up By: MY D-mAx - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 13:14

Reply By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 19:35

Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 19:35
.
The offending motorist says.... "well off the side of the road (approximately 12 m).

The relevant legislation refers to "An emergency service speed zone is an area of road in the immediate vicinity of an emergency vehicle that has stopped and is displaying a flashing blue or red light". Perhaps the words "immediate vicinity" are significant. Either the motorist is not correct in her assessment of the police car position, or she maybe should consult a solicitor regarding "immediate vicinity". Either way, it is useful to know about this legislation.

I have frequently seen a police vehicle with flashing lights parked at a motorway shoulder and talking to the driver in a car in front whilst the traffic continues past at 100 or 110 km/h. Imagine the effect upon the traffic of a major highway if the several lanes slowed to 25km/h? This article bears on that situation.







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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 08:07

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 08:07
Totally spot on mate.

IF indeed it was 12m, well that is ridiculous for sure, absolutely pig headed of the police concerned, no pun intended.

I really am glad to have a dash cam (front and rear) and excellent quality footage constantly being saved.
If she was 12m from the road, and had such footage, I am almost sure you could get this thrown out, one would hope the majority of our judges still have some common sense with such matters.

I think if you were to write to infringements and state your case in writing, stating you have dash cam footage, they would rescind such a fine, they don't want precedents set in court most likely about this "immediate vicinity" business.
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Reply By: Member - Scott & Sally - Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 19:35

Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 19:35
This stupid law caused an 8 car pileup on the SE freeway south of Adelaide on the Easter weekend. Ludicrous.
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Follow Up By: Mick O - Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 23:10

Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 23:10
The law caused the pileup or the drivers who failed to pay due care and attention?
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Follow Up By: Member - Scott & Sally - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 00:05

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 00:05
No Mick the copper was sitting in
front of a truck he'd pulled over out of sight until the last moment.
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Follow Up By: True Blue - Thursday, Apr 26, 2018 at 16:08

Thursday, Apr 26, 2018 at 16:08
Clever of him to park 'in front' of the truck, out of sight.
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Reply By: mike39 - Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 19:35

Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 19:35
For how long has a highway patrol car been an emergency vehicle?

Here on the New England highway NSW, every day I can pass by, at 100kph, a stationary highway patrol car, lights flashing, whilst the officer questions the driver of the car they have stopped.
I have never heard of such a law in NSW.

I believe the driver in question should defend the matter by way of explanation to the court with a stat. dec. as to the circumstances.
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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 20:37

Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 20:37
Unfortunately, ignorance is no plea. Any Police vehicle is considered an emergency vehicle in every State in Australia.

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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 22:00

Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 22:00
.
What constitutes an "Emergency Vehicle"?
Well the following is copied from the first link in my Reply above........

........."This includes, for instance, where a driver has been pulled over by police for speeding on a freeway and the patrol car’s red and blue lights are flashing, even though this is not technically an emergency.".........

I think most people would regard a Police Vehicle with flashing lights as an "Emergency Vehicle". Certainly the magistrate would. lol

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Follow Up By: MY D-mAx - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 06:51

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 06:51
I did hear this morning on Macquarie radio (2GB) that aimilar law will be introduced here in NSW.Nothing about when this might happen
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Follow Up By: Hoyks - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 14:51

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 14:51
01 September 2018 for a 12 month trial.

Can't find the actual press release, but it was only put out today, so might take a day or two for the Google bots to find it.
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 21:09

Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 21:09
Come on, it has already been linked in this thread at least once. But for those who missed it, a 12 month trial will commence in New South Wales on 1st September this year.
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Reply By: Member - Rowdy6032 (WA) - Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 19:40

Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 19:40
New law from 2nd March 2018 in WA.

The new law requires motorists to reduce speed to a maximum of 40km/h when passing incident response vehicles with flashing lights and, where possible and safe to do so, move to the next lane.

The penalty for this offence is three demerit points and $300.

Has been law in SA since 2014.

ROAD TRAFFIC ACT 1961 - SECT 83
83—Speed in emergency service speed zone

(1) A person must not, while driving through an emergency service speed zone, drive at a speed greater than—

(a) 25 kilometres per hour; or

(b) if a lesser speed is required in the circumstances to avoid endangering any person—that lesser speed.
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Follow Up By: Member - johnat - Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 19:58

Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 19:58
Questions remain
1. What is an "emergency service speed zone"? And how is it defined?
2. What is an "incident response vehicle"? And when was a highway patrol vehicle defined as one of them?

Seems to me that these laws are enacted at the behest of the police, and left deliberately vague so that the definitions can be as required.

Wouldn't it be nice if ALL states had the same laws? Or just get rid of the states!
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Follow Up By: IvanTheTerrible - Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 20:05

Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 20:05
In Vic it is any vehicle with red and blues or purple flashing


Sa rule states

In the immediate vicinity of an emergency service vehicle that has stopped on the road and is displaying a flashing blue or red light; or
Between two sets of flashing blue or red lights that have been placed by an emergency worker at either end of a length of road on which an emergency vehicle has stopped.
It does not apply if you are driving on a road that is divided by a median strip and the emergency service speed zone is on the other side of the road beyond the median strip.
An emergency services vehicle includes:

Ambulance
Fire service vehicle (CFS, MFS or Federal Aviation Rescue)
State Emergency Services (SES) vehicle
Police.

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Follow Up By: GarryR - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 06:37

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 06:37
Hey Ivan I thinks you left out one more. The would be coppers if they could be with the purple flashing lights Vicroad trafiic enforcement officers. Yes they only really concentrate on heavy vechiles but also have the right to pull over any civilian who they consider in breach of the transport regulations. Mainly load carrying (overhang, overload,) but also trailers considered commercial (Tradies). Does that mean because they purple flashing lights that I can still wiz past them at a 100kph
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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 09:54

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 09:54
Garry, read Ivan’s post again, he stated purple.

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Follow Up By: GarryR - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 12:54

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 12:54
Sorry there Macca, I sort of miss read or over looked the very first line. My mistake
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Reply By: Member - Rowdy6032 (WA) - Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 20:07

Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 20:07
83(3) In this section—
emergency service speed zone means an area of road—
(a) in the immediate vicinity of an emergency vehicle that has stopped on the
road and is displaying a flashing blue or red light (whether or not it is also
displaying other lights); or
(b) between 2 sets of flashing blue or red lights that have been placed by an
emergency worker at either end of a length of road on which an emergency
vehicle has stopped;
emergency vehicle means a vehicle used by an emergency worker;
emergency worker means a police officer or a person who is an emergency worker as
defined by the regulations for the purposes of this section.
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 21:12

Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 21:12
And what is " immediate vicinity"?

Something for the legal parasites to argue over and soak up the $$$.
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Reply By: PeterInSa - Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 20:28

Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 20:28
Last year driving south up the Southern Expressway(O'Hallaron Hill) 3 full lanes of traffic going the max 80Km. police had pulled someone over, in the space adjacent to the inside 3rd lane.... between the 3rd lane and the concrete barrier separating the 3 lane down track on the Bloo.. brow of the hill.............

When I saw the situation driving in the 3rd lane, I put on my anchors and much squealing of brakes behind me, the 2 outside lanes kept the same speed as they would have had problems in seeing/realising where the police had parked.

I have great respect for the police in SA, but this officer, in his efforts to book someone, put at risk his life and others.

Peter
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Follow Up By: LAZYLUX16 - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 15:14

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 15:14
Yep or they pull up car at intersection , two lanes turning right and left lane blocked very dangerous.I cant see why they cant get driver to drive to a side road or safer part of road.
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Reply By: Paul E6 - Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 20:35

Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 20:35
Typical traffic cops. Working on their quota no doubt.
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Follow Up By: LAZYLUX16 - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 15:11

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 15:11
Yep my mate quit Police force because all he did was drive up and down a highway filling his quota to get promoted
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Reply By: Motherhen - Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 20:44

Saturday, Apr 07, 2018 at 20:44
South Australia 25 kph since 2014.Victoria 40 kph last year, with a fatality within days of the introduction when a lady obeyed the law but stopped faster than the truck behind her.Western Australia 40 kph last month.

Each state has variations. In South Australia this law extends to passing a school bus which has stopped to pick up or set down children.

The fact to question is this story is that the police cars were twelve metres from the road.

The quote also states that Queensland has the same laws - no it doesn't, not yet.
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Follow Up By: MY D-mAx - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 06:58

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 06:58
I belive a law similar is going to be introduced here in NSW.Dont know when,heard it on the news this morning.
And while there at it may be worcover should crack down on police who are not wearing high vis when out of their vehicles booking some one.

Only seen this instance yesterday on two seperate occasions where a motorist was being booked and the HWP officer was not wearing his high VIS
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Follow Up By: mountainman - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 09:55

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 09:55
A copper in OZ pulled over someone for speeding.
Think the guy asked..
You really sure you want to give me a ticket.
Give the driver his ticket , and the copper wasnt wearing his high vis.
Copper picked the wrong person ...it was workcover person.
And copper got given a huuuge ticket for the above , not wearing high vis.
It was really expensive fine but cant remember how much.
Maybe a grand or even more
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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 10:06

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 10:06
Yes Mountainman, I remember this, it caused quite a stir at the time.

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Follow Up By: Mick O - Friday, Apr 27, 2018 at 08:35

Friday, Apr 27, 2018 at 08:35
Wonder if they went back at the Inspector for 'pervert the course of justice'. Surely using your position and authority to get out of breaking the law would be fundamentally wrong.
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Reply By: Member - shane r1 - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 01:13

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 01:13
These speed laws are crappy at best, especially if coppers are going to be dicks about it.
What happens If you come up to an emergency vehicle or school bus where you haven’t been able to see it soon enough to slow down without slamming the breaks on to get down to the Limit (which is quite often the case especially in a heavier vehicle). And which can make it more dangerous than passing by carefully . Do we really NEED to be told WHAT speed to slow down to? We should be slowing down anyway in these situations!
And are the police/emergency workers/ school kids and parents not capable of staying off the road?
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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 08:02

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 08:02
Indeed Shane, driving to the conditions is plain and simple common sense.
Unfortunately (and often correctly in many cases) GOVCO doesn't think most of the public has this any longer , and introduces draconian rules / laws to cover the lower threshold.

Of course many don't care about laws, and flout them, unfortunately the reasonably innocent get caught up in it.
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Reply By: Member - Robyn R4 - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 09:02

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 09:02
WOW!
Thank you for bringing this to our attention!
I'm in far northern NSW and therefore do a bit of driving in SE Qld. I slow down as a precaution because you never know what's happened or what's going to happen, but to 40? I doubt if I've ever slowed that much.
I will research that and other weird laws before we go on holidays to Qld next week.
We are aware of some differences (as you do in the border towns!) but I now wonder what other differences there are between NSW and Qld that we weren't aware of when we did a trip to the Gold Coast yesterday...
Hopefully google will have the answers.
It's a bit of a heads-up on us being aware of laws before any of us do the "big lap" (or partial laps).
Thanks Richard.
:)
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Follow Up By: DiggZ - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 09:19

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 09:19
"And are the police/emergency workers/ school kids and parents not capable of staying off the road?"

Yep, it would be great if all emergencies happened well off the road and all the kids lived on the lefthand side of the road. But they don't.
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Follow Up By: rumpig - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 09:23

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 09:23
You should be right in SEQ Richard as I've never heard of this law (though that means little really), I'd be very surprised to find it exists here in Qld as they would have had to run a media campaign on it's roll out if it happened, and I've never seen mention of it here in Brisbane. It must just be a Southern State thing at the moment, the original post being about S.A and then VIC. was mentioned later aswell....though in saying that it could be an old existing law they don't really enforce I guess, never heard of anyone getting pinged for it here. In July last year The Courier Mail ran a story regarding firefighters here wanting to adopt the same 40kph law as Victoria had introduced, so I don't believe Qld has such a law yet.
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Reply By: Iza B - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 09:54

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 09:54
Good idea in principle, making things safe for emergency workers. Stupid law in that someone did not think through the practically of obeying the law.

How far before the stopped emergency vehicle does the 25 KPH restriction come into effect? How far after? How many metres clear visibility does the driver of the emergency vehicle have to give so I can slow down in time? What distance is covered by a vague description of adjacent. I'm all for obeying the road rules but I need a lot more details of what I need to do. Another disaster for the cops when it comes to social perceptions of cops as revenue raisers.

Iza
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Reply By: mountainman - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 09:59

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 09:59
They really need to make a standard rule across Australia.
And then advertise the crap out of it.
And then enforce it with a 2mnth grace of no one getting fines but..
If you get caught twice in that period you should get a fine

Damn this country is crap on legislation.
And engineering and rego laws

Make it standard Australia wide !
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Reply By: Member - McLaren3030 - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 10:05

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 10:05
This Law was enacted in Vic. After an ambulance attending an accident scene was run into by another vehicle. Fortunately no one was seriously injured, but it was the “last straw” in a string of similar incidents.

Many here complained about the practicality of this law and how it could be applied. Emergency vehicle over the crest of a hill on a highway being invisible until you crest the hill. Same on a blind corner. No argument has so far been successful in overturning or modifying this law.

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Reply By: Hewy54 - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 11:23

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 11:23
According to a Facebook site, the law comes into effect in NSW in September.
40 kph past any emergency vehicle with the lights flashing.
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Reply By: Ron N - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 21:37

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 21:37
It appears that a tow truck at the scene of a crash with flashing lights doesn't count as an emergency vehicle?

What actually constitutes an emergency?

A good lawyer would have a field day with these laws. I'm all for people slowing down past roadworks, crashes and genuine emergencies - but the wording in these laws is idiocy - typical of bureacrats who don't live in the real world.

Now we have the cyclist clearance overtaking law in W.A. (1 metre clearance when overtaking at 60kmh or less - 1.5 metres clearance over 60 kmh) - the situation has arisen where cyclists are cycling through the hilly country East and South of Perth, where the lanes are not wide enough to allow the stated clearance without crossing the double white line! (and most of these roads are windy, and the double white line is there for a purpose).

What is a motorist (particularly a truckie with a big rig) supposed to do? Lock up the brakes and bring down their car, or 65 or 75 tonnes of truck, in a crash speed reduction, from 90 or 100kmh - to the 15-20kmh the cyclist is doing? - reduce the passing clearance? - or cross over the double white line, and incur a bigger penalty??

And who gets to precisely measure the exact passing clearance?? The cyclist or the motorist??
The laws in this country get more and more idiotic every day.

As has been said multiple times - commonsense and courtesy by all road users would eliminate the need for this plethora of petty regulations - but both of them haven't been seen for a very long time.

Perth Hills cyclists angry at road train getting too close

Perth cyclists rattled after truck passes too close

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 21:54

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 21:54
Ron,

In NSW the similar legislation says you're allowed to drive over the double lines "if safe to do so".

Begs the question why the lines are there in the first place?. Any time you want to overtake aren't you supposed to do it "only when safe to do so"?

But I can see what they're trying to do - give the cyclist a fair chance and the motorist the chance to use a bit of common sense - to make a decision based on vehicle size, acceleration, exposure to risk, etc

But the the lines are there to show it's not safe .....

Again, in due course the legal parasites will enjoy a feeding frenzy when it all goes wrong.

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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 22:12

Sunday, Apr 08, 2018 at 22:12
In the first link I'd hazard a guess that there was a metre clearance, but maybe not 1.5. Don't know the speeds - does anyone? Do the cyclists who complained?

In the second,
(a) if cyclists were concerned about their own safety they would be riding line astern to increase clearance, and
(b) the rider closer to the line wobbled out off the shoulder into the traffic lane. I suppose that's part of the reason for the 1 or 1.5 metre rule, but if that's what's going to happen and as a cyclist you don't like eating into the safety margins, see (a) above.
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Follow Up By: Iza B - Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 09:01

Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 09:01
Putting one wheel over the dividing line while overtaking a cyclist, when safe to do so, is not much of a problem as the time taken to over take will normally be very short given the likely difference in speed.

Iza
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 11:03

Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 11:03
Putting the RHS wheels over a double white line when there's a sharp curve or crest coming up, is not something I ever indulge in.

As I stated previously, the double white lines are there for a reason.

I have enough trouble with other dopey motorists sticking to their side of the road now.
I regularly come across other people backing out of driveways onto the wrong side of the street, then driving off up the street, still well over the RHS of the centreline, forcing me to stop for them!

I've driven in countries where the white road lines mean nothing to their motorists, and seen the results.
Greece is a classic. You always have to drive with a set of wheels on the edge of the road there, as you always come across someone overtaking a bus, over a double white line, just around a sharp curve! - at 100kmh!!

Greece, naturally, has one of Europes worst road death tolls.
I was under the impression we were a little more road-rule educated here - but it seems Australian drivers, driving skills, are deteriorating faster than a third world countrys debt position.

Cyclists, with their constant demands for road room, when there's no room for them, grates with me.
I ride a bike - and I stay right away from busy roads that don't have bike lanes - and if I ride in a bike lane, I ride single file, and I stay in that lane. It's pretty basic, life-preserving nous.

As far as the speed limit past emergencies is concerned, S.A. needs to be pulled into line and bring their speed limit up to 40 kmh, to ensure a national standard.

We've spent millions on National standards for every other road-related law and regulation - speed limits such as the emergency and roadworks speed limit, need to be standardised across the Nation.

Cheers, Ron.
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Follow Up By: Member - Blue M - Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 17:56

Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 17:56
I just had a look here at the Rules.

The part I find hard to believe is they can ride two abreast just so long as they are less than 1.5 meters apart.
Back when I was a kid I would get my ar$e kicked for riding side by side.

In that second clip at the 7 second mark, there is something painted on the bitumen, what does that sign mean?
I really think the headlines should be "Bike rider endangered by their own stupidity" now trying to blame someone else.

Cheers


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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 18:19

Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 18:19
"In that second clip at the 7 second mark, there is something painted on the bitumen, what does that sign mean?"

Blue, I don't know if your question was rhetorical or real, so I'll play a straight bat and treat it as real.

If they had been in NSW it would have meant they were riding in a designated bicycle lane. Link

Further, in NSW if a designated bicycle lane is provided, cyclists must ride in that lane.Link (Comment: And, one would assume, control the bicycle so as not to move into the traffic lane as an overtaking vehicle approaches from behind.)
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Follow Up By: Member - Blue M - Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 19:45

Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 19:45
Thanks Frank, when I first looked at it on my phone, I could not quite make out what it was, now I am home and can see it more clearly on the computer screen.
I agree completely what you said in your above comment about safety, if I thought every motorist was trying to kill me, I would be as far away from that white line as I possibly could.
Cheers

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Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, Apr 10, 2018 at 23:14

Tuesday, Apr 10, 2018 at 23:14
Surely logic would dictate that it should be illegal to ride more than single file inside any unbroken centre line?
For some reason cyclists appear to have a greater sense of entitlement than any other group on Earth, yet they aren’t prepared to pay for any of their demands, or to be able to be identified if they infringe any laws, although they wear cameras on their heads & asses to be able to identify vehicles!

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Reply By: Candace S. - Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 11:12

Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 11:12
Slowing down for emergency vehicles on the shoulder generally sounds like a good idea, but wow, 25 kmh?! Even 40 kmh is pretty low, especially on a highway/motorway.

I can see the potential for serious accidents to result when drivers are trying to comply with this but don't see the emergency vehicle(s) soon enough to slow down gradually.

Thanks for this thread, good to know about these laws and in particular the very low speed limits.

Nevada has a similar "slow down or move over" law. Thing is, no speed is specified! I confirmed this by looking up the actual laws.

https://www.nevadadot.com/safety/move-over-law

BTW, someone mentioned school buses...I wonder if Oz school buses have these pop-out stop signs? When you see this, gotta stop and wait for all the little darlings to get off the bus (and if they want to, cross the street). :)

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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 15:34

Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 15:34
Candice, (at least in the state of South Australia) many specific school buses have alternate flashing lights on the rear, and when these are going you have to do 25km/hr when passing in either direction.

It's the same rule for any bus without flashing lights too, vehicles with school bus signage are the same, whenever they are pulled up taking on or dropping of school children.

What distance ? It's not stated in the law specifically.

As far as emergency vehicles goes, 'immediate vicinity' is open to abuse by law enforcement and on the other hand careless drivers.

My view is dashcams can assist in not only the obvious motor accident at fault proof.
For the purpose of a defense in the case of over zealous police activity, I feel dash cams are the best way to protect yourself too.

A little extra bonus is you can get some pretty good footage off them for use in trip videos too.
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Follow Up By: Nacho - Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 16:31

Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 16:31
Dash cams aren't the best way to protect yourself..not speeding is the best way :)
1
FollowupID: 890090

Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 19:08

Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 19:08
Nacho, what's that about, who's talking speeding ??
I'm talking about situations where there is doubtful guilt, such as the supposed 12m in the OPs story.
You don't think people get fined unfairly at times ?
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FollowupID: 890098

Follow Up By: Nacho - Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 21:51

Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 21:51
The poster was done for speeding and I suspect only half of the story is posted.
Don't like paying speeding fines...don't speed..simple.

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FollowupID: 890104

Reply By: Baz - The Landy - Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 17:13

Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 17:13
Seemingly, lots of discussion and debate around this law, especially regarding the legal elements and in particular "how far is the immediate vicinity"...!

On the contrary, there has been little acknowledgement that it might actually make it safer for emergency workers going about their job.

Could I make a suggestion, rather than resorting to a dashcam for evidence or getting out a tape measure to work out if you're close enough to need to slow down or far enough away to keep your foot on the accelerator...

Simply put yourself in the shoes of the emergency worker at the side of the road, whether they are police, ambulance para-medics, firefighters - those stalwarts of our community who tend to give tirelessly for our benefit...

And ask yourself the question “if I was in their shoes what distance would I be comfortable with before I'd expect a vehicle to slow down"...?

You'll probably find it falls into the "common sense" bucket.

Oh wait, we have this type of law these days because too many people just "talk" about common sense, rather than actually "exercising it"...

My two bob's worth,

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
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AnswerID: 618179

Follow Up By: KevinE - Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 19:41

Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 19:41
Well said Baz!

Your post sums up the purpose of this law.

This law isn't news to us here in SA, it's been around a while now. So everyone here now slows immediately upon seeing the flashing blue & red lights on the side of the road.

I have a great deal of difficulty accepting that someone driving 12M away from an emergency vehicle with lights flashing was pinged. 12M is a massive distance & the police here are very fair. To put that into perspective, each traffic lane is around 3M.

12M away from a pulled over car here in SA & still on the road? Doubtful.

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Reply By: Ron N - Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 22:26

Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 22:26
Well, here's another classic, as regards the stupidity of our road traffic regulations.

I'm zipping up Roe Hwy in the Hilux this afternoon, heading NE around the City.
Roe Hwy is a dual separated carriageway with an emergency lane (two traffic lanes each direction).

I'm in the left hand lane sitting on the legal 100kmh, and the traffic is reasonably heavy, with a good number of big trucks, as usual.

I come around a LH curve to spot a Hilux work ute parked in the emergency lane - with a heap of amber lights flashing.

Parked about 50 metres in front of the ute, and highly visible, is one of the Main Roads "safety" trucks - you know, the ones with the extendable "crash barrier" at vehicle level, at the rear, with a large LED sign mounted on the tray, and lots of flashing amber lights.

About 100 metres beyond the safety truck is another Hilux work ute - also with a myriad of flashing amber lights.

I can see blokes in hi-vis gear working on the guard rail at the edge of the highway, and walking up and down the emergency lane.

Now, that particular situation immediately requires everyone to reduce speed from 100kmh to 40kmh, under the recently-introduced road traffic regulation.

But here's the stupidity. The Main Roads LED sign is clearly lit up with the message - SLOW - ROADWORKS - 80 KMH!!

So what happens if an officious copper decides to book passing motorists for exceeding the 40kmh speed limit past emergency or roadworks vehicles, showing flashing lights? - when the MRD has posted a speed limit of 80 kmh?? - in contravention of the current law??

This is an absolute farce. If we are to have road traffic regulations that everyone understands and is obliged to obey - let's get some practical, commonsense, standardised regulations, for passing emergency or roadworks vehicles - and lets not have these idiotic speed limit variations at whim, or idiotic 25kmh speed limits, immediately straight down from highway speeds - which are nothing but a feeding ground for lawyers, and a potential source of major highway crashes.

I might add, I've done my share of roadworks construction, and put up with plenty of motorists speeding excessively past our roadworks - so I know the other sides story.

I am also very aware of the need, when coming across a major accident on a highway, for the immediate and outstanding need to immediately take steps to bring oncoming traffic travelling at high speed, under control - and also stop them, if the highway is blocked.

This is no easy thing to do - and the only way to do it, is to get way back up the highway with adequate and highly visible emergency warnings, to ensure people have time to register the danger in their mind, and then to back off the loud pedal and start steady braking - not crash braking.

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 618189

Follow Up By: Member - ACD 1 - Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 23:23

Monday, Apr 09, 2018 at 23:23
Ron, and others from WA, you really need to go and read the Road Traffic Code (2000). It is all explained in there!

Roadworks vehicles - as you describe above are NOT "emergency" vehicles. That is why you can do the speed they post on their variable sign. If they are responding to an emergency incident (say in the tunnel) then they are deemed as an Incident Response Vehicle and would display "Slow to 40km".

A tow truck is NOT an emergency vehicle however, it is deemed an Incident Response Vehicle only when it is responding to an Emergency Incident ie attaching a vehicle after an accident/incident.

Emergency Vehicles are designated under the Road Trafic Code (2000) as vehicles responding to an incident whilst displaying Red AND/OR Blue flashing lights AND/OR sounding a horn (siren). Until this criteria is met the vehicle is deemed a normal vehicle and us subject to normal road rules. The vehicles that meet this criteria in WA are Police, Fire, Ambulance, SES (only some though) Western Power Emergency Response. It does not include Transport Inspectors - they have magenta coloured lights. The Code also covers Emergency Vehicles parked on the side of the road with their lights only flashing.

This is pretty simple stuff that even my 16 year old "L" licensed driver is aware of. The law has been written, published and communicated via media - "Ignorance of the Law is not a defence".

Cheers

Anthony
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Tuesday, Apr 10, 2018 at 10:22

Tuesday, Apr 10, 2018 at 10:22
Anthony - Yes, the RTC makes it as clear as mud, doesn't it?

I spot a tow truck ahead with lights flashing (as I do several times a day - and I've even seen tow trucks driving around with lights still flashing) - and from 100 or 110kmh, and rapidly approaching it, I'm supposed to immediately determine whether;

A. It's been classified on the spot, as an emergency vehicle, and I have to slow down to 40kmh.

B. It hasn't been classified as an emergency vehicle and he's just picking up an abandoned car, so I can keep whizzing along at 100-110kmh.

C. He's just put his flashing amber lights on, while he investigates something interesting by the side of the road - meaning I can also just whizz past at speed.

D. He's just pulled up to investigate a potential job by way of spotting a broken-down car - and he's just put his flashing amber lights on, because he can.

Until we get some more precisely and clearly-defined wording, and definitions, of exactly under what conditions a motorist is obliged to slow down to 40 kms/hr - there will be more outrage, more unfairly-applied penalties, and a bigger feeding frenzy for lawyers, when it comes to speeding penalties.

I was always under the understanding that obvious roadworks and roadworkers near the edge of the road, constituted a simple 40kmh limit.

However, W.A.'s Main Roads have turned speed limit determination and obfuscation into a fine art, on a level with the best that Sir Humphrey Appleby could produce.

The Main Roads traffic speed calculation article below gives one an idea of a "schemozzle" the calculation and application of roadworks speed limits has become.

Main Roads - Traffic management at roadworks

It appears Main Roads has adopted a policy of determining two different levels of roadworks - "high risk" and "low risk" roadworks.

"High risk" apparently means the application of the 40kmh roadworks speed limit.

"Low Risk" means Main Roads can do a Uni-level study of traffic and speeds and volumes, and come to a different speed limit reduction calculation.

Add in the confusion caused by dopey roadworkers finishing their work and going home - but leaving their 40kmh speed limits signs in place - for no reason - and we have a veritable minefield for legal arguments, and unfairness in the application or traffic laws.

I might add - the W.A. TV ads for the 40kmh speed limit past emergencies, clearly show a tow truck with flashing amber lights as the primary vehicle in the emergency situation - with the other important emergency responders such as police and ambulance officers, only appearing later in the ad.

Road Safety Commission - SLOMO campaign - new 40kmh speed limit past emergency vehicles

Note that the RSC website says - "See flashing lights on a STATIONARY vehicle, slow down, move over" (and reduce speed to 40kmh).

No clear definition there of "emergency vehicle", or "incident response vehicle" - just see flashing lights of any kind, on ANY stationary vehicle, and you must immediately reduce speed to 40kmh, or be penalised.

Cheers, Ron.
1
FollowupID: 890114

Follow Up By: Member - ACD 1 - Tuesday, Apr 10, 2018 at 16:50

Tuesday, Apr 10, 2018 at 16:50
Gee Ron! It really is quite simple...

The link you posted explains it quite succinctly. The video even uses the same descriptors I have, which by the way are the same as in the Road Traffic Code. Did you actually watch it?

A Tow truck or Break Down Service vehicle working on the side of the road with their Amber lights flashing is an INCIDENT RESPONSE VEHICLE (not an emergency vehicle) as declared in accordance with the Road Traffic Code in all of the situations you describe below - therefore, they are responding to an incident - YOU SLOW DOWN. If they have their lights on they have become an Incident Response Vehicle. If the vehicle has INCIDENT RESPONSE VEHICHLE written all over it, then I guess that is what it is.

Police, Fire, Ambulance etc parked on the side of the road with their Red and Blue lights flashing are EMERGENCY VEHICLES as declared in accordance with the Road Traffic Code therefore, they are responding to an incident - YOU SLOW DOWN. If they have their lights on they have become an Emergency Vehicle.

Roadworks vehicles on the side of the road with their Amber lights flashing ARE NOT Incident Response Vehicles. You obey the signs and controls as posted. If an errant road worker fails to remove a speed warning sign at the end of the day - YOU MUST OBEY IT. As you approach roadworks, there are advisory and control signs posted to tell you they are coming up (this requirement Is covered in the link you provided).

Cheers

Anthony


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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Tuesday, Apr 10, 2018 at 21:02

Tuesday, Apr 10, 2018 at 21:02
You are heading along at the speed of 100 or 110. Spot a flashing yellow light, and to get down to near 40 you need to act quickly. You are not going to think "Is that an emergency vehicle or not, I'll go on at 80 and have a look."
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Reply By: Member - McLaren3030 - Tuesday, Apr 10, 2018 at 10:12

Tuesday, Apr 10, 2018 at 10:12
The following is a link to the Vic Roads website explaing the rule in Vic.

Vic Roads Explanation

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AnswerID: 618196

Reply By: member - mazcan - Tuesday, Apr 10, 2018 at 15:59

Tuesday, Apr 10, 2018 at 15:59
this rule has also just been legalised in w.a as well so be aware of that if your over there 40kph is the speed fines and demerit points are involved
to me it is common sense to slow down
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AnswerID: 618211

Reply By: Member - Rod N (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 10, 2018 at 19:58

Tuesday, Apr 10, 2018 at 19:58
Saw on the Qld TV news tonight that Qld has no intention of introducing such a law. Senior police and the RACQ both spoke against a law and advocated using common sense while driving.
AnswerID: 618214

Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 10, 2018 at 19:59

Tuesday, Apr 10, 2018 at 19:59
Hallelujah!!
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Follow Up By: Member - Rod N (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 10, 2018 at 20:07

Tuesday, Apr 10, 2018 at 20:07
News report here Queensland puts-brakes-on-emergency-vehicle-slow-down-laws
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Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Tuesday, Apr 10, 2018 at 20:59

Tuesday, Apr 10, 2018 at 20:59
Rod

Are you sure you have this right in regards to the Queensland Police stance on this issue...?

The opening line of the article you have posted says police are advocating for the law; not against it...?

Have I missed something in your post?

As I indicated earlier, the problem about common sense these days is we have people just ‘talking’ about it, rather than actually ‘using’ common sense.

The consequence is we end up with laws with the only purpose is to spell out ‘common sense’...

To quote from the highlighted article you’ve highlighted, first paragraph...

“Police are putting pressure on the Queensland government to introduce laws forcing motorists to slow down when passing an emergency service vehicle with flashing lights.”

Personally, I’d find it surprising any ‘emergency or incident response person’ would be against this law being put on the statute books.

Cheers, Baz- The Landy
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Follow Up By: Member - Rod N (QLD) - Tuesday, Apr 10, 2018 at 21:36

Tuesday, Apr 10, 2018 at 21:36
Further down the article it says the police union are in favour of it.
Yahoo 7 says "Queensland's police union is putting pressure on the state government to introduce laws forcing motorists to slow down when passing an emergency vehicle with flashing lights." So maybe there is a difference of opinion in the police service and news reporters.
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FollowupID: 890145

Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Tuesday, Apr 10, 2018 at 22:24

Tuesday, Apr 10, 2018 at 22:24
Perhaps, but I’m sure the Police Union represents members views as indicated in the article...!

How about you, are you in favour of protecting our emergency workers ‘at the coal face’ as they go about assisting the community in difficult roadside conditions?

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
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Follow Up By: Member - Rod N (QLD) - Wednesday, Apr 11, 2018 at 06:01

Wednesday, Apr 11, 2018 at 06:01
Baz, as often said, 'Don't shoot the messenger'. I just passed on what was reported in the media. If you don't like, it take it up with appropriate Qld minister. My, and I dare say others, thoughts on forums such as this probably have little bearing. If the Qld police union can't convince the minister, what hope do forums have?
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FollowupID: 890149

Follow Up By: IvanTheTerrible - Wednesday, Apr 11, 2018 at 19:09

Wednesday, Apr 11, 2018 at 19:09
Common sense and driving don't usually go hand in hand.
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FollowupID: 890161

Reply By: Member - Bruce and Di T (SA) - Saturday, Apr 21, 2018 at 20:54

Saturday, Apr 21, 2018 at 20:54
Yes. Been the law for awhile.

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Reply By: Member - DickyBeach - Tuesday, Apr 24, 2018 at 16:09

Tuesday, Apr 24, 2018 at 16:09
I just went to the local Police Station (Mona Vale, Northern Beaches, Sydney) and was told that NSW would introduce it later this year and probably for 40kmh.

"Officer Safety".

It will be interesting to see the traffic jams on the Warringah Expressway heading north off the Harbour Bridge; also on the M1 heading to Newcastle, not to mention all the other M roads around Sydney - on the other hand a lot of them crawl at around 40kmh in peak hour anyway :(.
AnswerID: 618509

Reply By: True Blue - Thursday, Apr 26, 2018 at 16:15

Thursday, Apr 26, 2018 at 16:15
At what point or distance does 'immediate vicinity' start or stop? What a shocking grey area this is for motorists to be able to defend themselves against. The way that is worded you could be fined for passing an emergency vehicle with lights flashing that is 100m off the road. Valid interpretation only applies to the opinion of the officer, we have no where to go in our defence. How many dollars is this rule going to raise? How many people will be loosing their licences, and let's face it, possibly their jobs, house, family etc etc, all connected to the domino effect of this stupid law.
AnswerID: 618541

Reply By: Michael H9 - Saturday, Apr 28, 2018 at 10:16

Saturday, Apr 28, 2018 at 10:16
25kph is too slow, enough to be dangerous for other road users. You may as well ask everyone to pull up to a stop. 40kph is reasonable but still could be dangerous. The law should include that drivers must activate the car emergency flashers when complying. It's common practice on European motorways and is a great idea not seen here much.
AnswerID: 618572

Follow Up By: Shaker - Monday, Apr 30, 2018 at 13:05

Monday, Apr 30, 2018 at 13:05
That would be interesting, it’s hard enough to get people to use indicators for lane changes & turns!
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Monday, Apr 30, 2018 at 14:03

Monday, Apr 30, 2018 at 14:03
And the authorities complain about rubber neckers slowing down causing traffic issues and even accidents and now they want us to do exactly that.

I agree for major accidents etc but for a cop parked on the side of the road - back in their car after booking someone and writing up their paperwork but still have their lights on is a bit extreme.
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Monday, Apr 30, 2018 at 15:53

Monday, Apr 30, 2018 at 15:53
Well any unexpected speed limit change is normally accompanied by early warning systems so that motorists have fair warning. The possibility of no fair warning under the new system is very high. Quite often on motorways in Europe you can be barrelling alond at high speed and see a mass of emergency flashers in the distance. It's fair warning and doesn't cost anything.
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Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Monday, Apr 30, 2018 at 18:16

Monday, Apr 30, 2018 at 18:16
It should also be mandatory to activate your emergency flashers when pulled up at roadworks. Daytime or nighttime, the number of vehicles that pull up put their vehicles in park or neutral and pull their handbrakes on as the last vehicle in the line is a big no,no but many do it. Forewarned is forearmed.
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Monday, Apr 30, 2018 at 20:21

Monday, Apr 30, 2018 at 20:21
Correct, the poor young people that got cleaned up by the semi out west in nsw would be a prime example. Innocently pulled up in a queue of traffic, who knows what may have happened had there been emergency flashers operating along the whole queue?
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