Has anyone ever heard of such a thing in S.A?

https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/39765530/new-slow-down-rule-set-for-nsw-roads/

Totally spot on mate.

IF indeed it was 12m, well that is ridiculous for sure, absolutely pig headed of the police concerned, no pun intended.

I really am glad to have a dash cam (front and rear) and excellent quality footage constantly being saved.
If she was 12m from the road, and had such footage, I am almost sure you could get this thrown out, one would hope the majority of our judges still have some common sense with such matters.

I think if you were to write to infringements and state your case in writing, stating you have dash cam footage, they would rescind such a fine, they don't want precedents set in court most likely about this "immediate vicinity" business.

The law caused the pileup or the drivers who failed to pay due care and attention?

No Mick the copper was sitting in
front of a truck he'd pulled over out of sight until the last moment.

Clever of him to park 'in front' of the truck, out of sight.

Unfortunately, ignorance is no plea. Any Police vehicle is considered an emergency vehicle in every State in Australia.

Macca.

.
What constitutes an "Emergency Vehicle"?
Well the following is copied from the first link in my Reply above........

........."This includes, for instance, where a driver has been pulled over by police for speeding on a freeway and the patrol car’s red and blue lights are flashing, even though this is not technically an emergency.".........

I think most people would regard a Police Vehicle with flashing lights as an "Emergency Vehicle". Certainly the magistrate would. lol

I did hear this morning on Macquarie radio (2GB) that aimilar law will be introduced here in NSW.Nothing about when this might happen

01 September 2018 for a 12 month trial.

Can't find the actual press release, but it was only put out today, so might take a day or two for the Google bots to find it.

Come on, it has already been linked in this thread at least once. But for those who missed it, a 12 month trial will commence in New South Wales on 1st September this year.

Questions remain
1. What is an "emergency service speed zone"? And how is it defined?
2. What is an "incident response vehicle"? And when was a highway patrol vehicle defined as one of them?

Seems to me that these laws are enacted at the behest of the police, and left deliberately vague so that the definitions can be as required.

Wouldn't it be nice if ALL states had the same laws? Or just get rid of the states!

In Vic it is any vehicle with red and blues or purple flashing


Sa rule states

In the immediate vicinity of an emergency service vehicle that has stopped on the road and is displaying a flashing blue or red light; or
Between two sets of flashing blue or red lights that have been placed by an emergency worker at either end of a length of road on which an emergency vehicle has stopped.
It does not apply if you are driving on a road that is divided by a median strip and the emergency service speed zone is on the other side of the road beyond the median strip.
An emergency services vehicle includes:

Ambulance
Fire service vehicle (CFS, MFS or Federal Aviation Rescue)
State Emergency Services (SES) vehicle
Police.

Hey Ivan I thinks you left out one more. The would be coppers if they could be with the purple flashing lights Vicroad trafiic enforcement officers. Yes they only really concentrate on heavy vechiles but also have the right to pull over any civilian who they consider in breach of the transport regulations. Mainly load carrying (overhang, overload,) but also trailers considered commercial (Tradies). Does that mean because they purple flashing lights that I can still wiz past them at a 100kph

Garry, read Ivan’s post again, he stated purple.

Macca.

Sorry there Macca, I sort of miss read or over looked the very first line. My mistake

And what is " immediate vicinity"?

Something for the legal parasites to argue over and soak up the $$$.

Yep or they pull up car at intersection , two lanes turning right and left lane blocked very dangerous.I cant see why they cant get driver to drive to a side road or safer part of road.

Yep my mate quit Police force because all he did was drive up and down a highway filling his quota to get promoted

I belive a law similar is going to be introduced here in NSW.Dont know when,heard it on the news this morning.
And while there at it may be worcover should crack down on police who are not wearing high vis when out of their vehicles booking some one.

Only seen this instance yesterday on two seperate occasions where a motorist was being booked and the HWP officer was not wearing his high VIS

A copper in OZ pulled over someone for speeding.
Think the guy asked..
You really sure you want to give me a ticket.
Give the driver his ticket , and the copper wasnt wearing his high vis.
Copper picked the wrong person ...it was workcover person.
And copper got given a huuuge ticket for the above , not wearing high vis.
It was really expensive fine but cant remember how much.
Maybe a grand or even more

Yes Mountainman, I remember this, it caused quite a stir at the time.

Macca.

Wonder if they went back at the Inspector for 'pervert the course of justice'. Surely using your position and authority to get out of breaking the law would be fundamentally wrong.

Indeed Shane, driving to the conditions is plain and simple common sense.
Unfortunately (and often correctly in many cases) GOVCO doesn't think most of the public has this any longer , and introduces draconian rules / laws to cover the lower threshold.

Of course many don't care about laws, and flout them, unfortunately the reasonably innocent get caught up in it.

"And are the police/emergency workers/ school kids and parents not capable of staying off the road?"

Yep, it would be great if all emergencies happened well off the road and all the kids lived on the lefthand side of the road. But they don't.

You should be right in SEQ Richard as I've never heard of this law (though that means little really), I'd be very surprised to find it exists here in Qld as they would have had to run a media campaign on it's roll out if it happened, and I've never seen mention of it here in Brisbane. It must just be a Southern State thing at the moment, the original post being about S.A and then VIC. was mentioned later aswell....though in saying that it could be an old existing law they don't really enforce I guess, never heard of anyone getting pinged for it here. In July last year The Courier Mail ran a story regarding firefighters here wanting to adopt the same 40kph law as Victoria had introduced, so I don't believe Qld has such a law yet.

Ron,

In NSW the similar legislation says you're allowed to drive over the double lines "if safe to do so".

Begs the question why the lines are there in the first place?. Any time you want to overtake aren't you supposed to do it "only when safe to do so"?

But I can see what they're trying to do - give the cyclist a fair chance and the motorist the chance to use a bit of common sense - to make a decision based on vehicle size, acceleration, exposure to risk, etc

But the the lines are there to show it's not safe .....

Again, in due course the legal parasites will enjoy a feeding frenzy when it all goes wrong.

In the first link I'd hazard a guess that there was a metre clearance, but maybe not 1.5. Don't know the speeds - does anyone? Do the cyclists who complained?

In the second,
(a) if cyclists were concerned about their own safety they would be riding line astern to increase clearance, and
(b) the rider closer to the line wobbled out off the shoulder into the traffic lane. I suppose that's part of the reason for the 1 or 1.5 metre rule, but if that's what's going to happen and as a cyclist you don't like eating into the safety margins, see (a) above.

Putting one wheel over the dividing line while overtaking a cyclist, when safe to do so, is not much of a problem as the time taken to over take will normally be very short given the likely difference in speed.

Iza

Putting the RHS wheels over a double white line when there's a sharp curve or crest coming up, is not something I ever indulge in.

As I stated previously, the double white lines are there for a reason.

I have enough trouble with other dopey motorists sticking to their side of the road now.
I regularly come across other people backing out of driveways onto the wrong side of the street, then driving off up the street, still well over the RHS of the centreline, forcing me to stop for them!

I've driven in countries where the white road lines mean nothing to their motorists, and seen the results.
Greece is a classic. You always have to drive with a set of wheels on the edge of the road there, as you always come across someone overtaking a bus, over a double white line, just around a sharp curve! - at 100kmh!!

Greece, naturally, has one of Europes worst road death tolls.
I was under the impression we were a little more road-rule educated here - but it seems Australian drivers, driving skills, are deteriorating faster than a third world countrys debt position.

Cyclists, with their constant demands for road room, when there's no room for them, grates with me.
I ride a bike - and I stay right away from busy roads that don't have bike lanes - and if I ride in a bike lane, I ride single file, and I stay in that lane. It's pretty basic, life-preserving nous.

As far as the speed limit past emergencies is concerned, S.A. needs to be pulled into line and bring their speed limit up to 40 kmh, to ensure a national standard.

We've spent millions on National standards for every other road-related law and regulation - speed limits such as the emergency and roadworks speed limit, need to be standardised across the Nation.

Cheers, Ron.

I just had a look here at the Rules.

The part I find hard to believe is they can ride two abreast just so long as they are less than 1.5 meters apart.
Back when I was a kid I would get my ar$e kicked for riding side by side.

In that second clip at the 7 second mark, there is something painted on the bitumen, what does that sign mean?
I really think the headlines should be "Bike rider endangered by their own stupidity" now trying to blame someone else.

Cheers

"In that second clip at the 7 second mark, there is something painted on the bitumen, what does that sign mean?"

Blue, I don't know if your question was rhetorical or real, so I'll play a straight bat and treat it as real.

If they had been in NSW it would have meant they were riding in a designated bicycle lane. Link

Further, in NSW if a designated bicycle lane is provided, cyclists must ride in that lane.Link (Comment: And, one would assume, control the bicycle so as not to move into the traffic lane as an overtaking vehicle approaches from behind.)

Thanks Frank, when I first looked at it on my phone, I could not quite make out what it was, now I am home and can see it more clearly on the computer screen.
I agree completely what you said in your above comment about safety, if I thought every motorist was trying to kill me, I would be as far away from that white line as I possibly could.
Cheers

Surely logic would dictate that it should be illegal to ride more than single file inside any unbroken centre line?
For some reason cyclists appear to have a greater sense of entitlement than any other group on Earth, yet they aren’t prepared to pay for any of their demands, or to be able to be identified if they infringe any laws, although they wear cameras on their heads & asses to be able to identify vehicles!

Candice, (at least in the state of South Australia) many specific school buses have alternate flashing lights on the rear, and when these are going you have to do 25km/hr when passing in either direction.

It's the same rule for any bus without flashing lights too, vehicles with school bus signage are the same, whenever they are pulled up taking on or dropping of school children.

What distance ? It's not stated in the law specifically.

As far as emergency vehicles goes, 'immediate vicinity' is open to abuse by law enforcement and on the other hand careless drivers.

My view is dashcams can assist in not only the obvious motor accident at fault proof.
For the purpose of a defense in the case of over zealous police activity, I feel dash cams are the best way to protect yourself too.

A little extra bonus is you can get some pretty good footage off them for use in trip videos too.

Dash cams aren't the best way to protect yourself..not speeding is the best way :)

Nacho, what's that about, who's talking speeding ??
I'm talking about situations where there is doubtful guilt, such as the supposed 12m in the OPs story.
You don't think people get fined unfairly at times ?

The poster was done for speeding and I suspect only half of the story is posted.
Don't like paying speeding fines...don't speed..simple.

Well said Baz!

Your post sums up the purpose of this law.

This law isn't news to us here in SA, it's been around a while now. So everyone here now slows immediately upon seeing the flashing blue & red lights on the side of the road.

I have a great deal of difficulty accepting that someone driving 12M away from an emergency vehicle with lights flashing was pinged. 12M is a massive distance & the police here are very fair. To put that into perspective, each traffic lane is around 3M.

12M away from a pulled over car here in SA & still on the road? Doubtful.

Ron, and others from WA, you really need to go and read the Road Traffic Code (2000). It is all explained in there!

Roadworks vehicles - as you describe above are NOT "emergency" vehicles. That is why you can do the speed they post on their variable sign. If they are responding to an emergency incident (say in the tunnel) then they are deemed as an Incident Response Vehicle and would display "Slow to 40km".

A tow truck is NOT an emergency vehicle however, it is deemed an Incident Response Vehicle only when it is responding to an Emergency Incident ie attaching a vehicle after an accident/incident.

Emergency Vehicles are designated under the Road Trafic Code (2000) as vehicles responding to an incident whilst displaying Red AND/OR Blue flashing lights AND/OR sounding a horn (siren). Until this criteria is met the vehicle is deemed a normal vehicle and us subject to normal road rules. The vehicles that meet this criteria in WA are Police, Fire, Ambulance, SES (only some though) Western Power Emergency Response. It does not include Transport Inspectors - they have magenta coloured lights. The Code also covers Emergency Vehicles parked on the side of the road with their lights only flashing.

This is pretty simple stuff that even my 16 year old "L" licensed driver is aware of. The law has been written, published and communicated via media - "Ignorance of the Law is not a defence".

Cheers

Anthony

Anthony - Yes, the RTC makes it as clear as mud, doesn't it?

I spot a tow truck ahead with lights flashing (as I do several times a day - and I've even seen tow trucks driving around with lights still flashing) - and from 100 or 110kmh, and rapidly approaching it, I'm supposed to immediately determine whether;

A. It's been classified on the spot, as an emergency vehicle, and I have to slow down to 40kmh.

B. It hasn't been classified as an emergency vehicle and he's just picking up an abandoned car, so I can keep whizzing along at 100-110kmh.

C. He's just put his flashing amber lights on, while he investigates something interesting by the side of the road - meaning I can also just whizz past at speed.

D. He's just pulled up to investigate a potential job by way of spotting a broken-down car - and he's just put his flashing amber lights on, because he can.

Until we get some more precisely and clearly-defined wording, and definitions, of exactly under what conditions a motorist is obliged to slow down to 40 kms/hr - there will be more outrage, more unfairly-applied penalties, and a bigger feeding frenzy for lawyers, when it comes to speeding penalties.

I was always under the understanding that obvious roadworks and roadworkers near the edge of the road, constituted a simple 40kmh limit.

However, W.A.'s Main Roads have turned speed limit determination and obfuscation into a fine art, on a level with the best that Sir Humphrey Appleby could produce.

The Main Roads traffic speed calculation article below gives one an idea of a "schemozzle" the calculation and application of roadworks speed limits has become.

Main Roads - Traffic management at roadworks

It appears Main Roads has adopted a policy of determining two different levels of roadworks - "high risk" and "low risk" roadworks.

"High risk" apparently means the application of the 40kmh roadworks speed limit.

"Low Risk" means Main Roads can do a Uni-level study of traffic and speeds and volumes, and come to a different speed limit reduction calculation.

Add in the confusion caused by dopey roadworkers finishing their work and going home - but leaving their 40kmh speed limits signs in place - for no reason - and we have a veritable minefield for legal arguments, and unfairness in the application or traffic laws.

I might add - the W.A. TV ads for the 40kmh speed limit past emergencies, clearly show a tow truck with flashing amber lights as the primary vehicle in the emergency situation - with the other important emergency responders such as police and ambulance officers, only appearing later in the ad.

Road Safety Commission - SLOMO campaign - new 40kmh speed limit past emergency vehicles

Note that the RSC website says - "See flashing lights on a STATIONARY vehicle, slow down, move over" (and reduce speed to 40kmh).

No clear definition there of "emergency vehicle", or "incident response vehicle" - just see flashing lights of any kind, on ANY stationary vehicle, and you must immediately reduce speed to 40kmh, or be penalised.

Cheers, Ron.

Gee Ron! It really is quite simple...

The link you posted explains it quite succinctly. The video even uses the same descriptors I have, which by the way are the same as in the Road Traffic Code. Did you actually watch it?

A Tow truck or Break Down Service vehicle working on the side of the road with their Amber lights flashing is an INCIDENT RESPONSE VEHICLE (not an emergency vehicle) as declared in accordance with the Road Traffic Code in all of the situations you describe below - therefore, they are responding to an incident - YOU SLOW DOWN. If they have their lights on they have become an Incident Response Vehicle. If the vehicle has INCIDENT RESPONSE VEHICHLE written all over it, then I guess that is what it is.

Police, Fire, Ambulance etc parked on the side of the road with their Red and Blue lights flashing are EMERGENCY VEHICLES as declared in accordance with the Road Traffic Code therefore, they are responding to an incident - YOU SLOW DOWN. If they have their lights on they have become an Emergency Vehicle.

Roadworks vehicles on the side of the road with their Amber lights flashing ARE NOT Incident Response Vehicles. You obey the signs and controls as posted. If an errant road worker fails to remove a speed warning sign at the end of the day - YOU MUST OBEY IT. As you approach roadworks, there are advisory and control signs posted to tell you they are coming up (this requirement Is covered in the link you provided).

Cheers

Anthony

You are heading along at the speed of 100 or 110. Spot a flashing yellow light, and to get down to near 40 you need to act quickly. You are not going to think "Is that an emergency vehicle or not, I'll go on at 80 and have a look."

Hallelujah!!

News report here Queensland puts-brakes-on-emergency-vehicle-slow-down-laws

Rod

Are you sure you have this right in regards to the Queensland Police stance on this issue...?

The opening line of the article you have posted says police are advocating for the law; not against it...?

Have I missed something in your post?

As I indicated earlier, the problem about common sense these days is we have people just ‘talking’ about it, rather than actually ‘using’ common sense.

The consequence is we end up with laws with the only purpose is to spell out ‘common sense’...

To quote from the highlighted article you’ve highlighted, first paragraph...

“Police are putting pressure on the Queensland government to introduce laws forcing motorists to slow down when passing an emergency service vehicle with flashing lights.”

Personally, I’d find it surprising any ‘emergency or incident response person’ would be against this law being put on the statute books.

Cheers, Baz- The Landy

Further down the article it says the police union are in favour of it.
Yahoo 7 says "Queensland's police union is putting pressure on the state government to introduce laws forcing motorists to slow down when passing an emergency vehicle with flashing lights." So maybe there is a difference of opinion in the police service and news reporters.

Perhaps, but I’m sure the Police Union represents members views as indicated in the article...!

How about you, are you in favour of protecting our emergency workers ‘at the coal face’ as they go about assisting the community in difficult roadside conditions?

Cheers, Baz - The Landy

Baz, as often said, 'Don't shoot the messenger'. I just passed on what was reported in the media. If you don't like, it take it up with appropriate Qld minister. My, and I dare say others, thoughts on forums such as this probably have little bearing. If the Qld police union can't convince the minister, what hope do forums have?

Common sense and driving don't usually go hand in hand.

That would be interesting, it’s hard enough to get people to use indicators for lane changes & turns!

And the authorities complain about rubber neckers slowing down causing traffic issues and even accidents and now they want us to do exactly that.

I agree for major accidents etc but for a cop parked on the side of the road - back in their car after booking someone and writing up their paperwork but still have their lights on is a bit extreme.

Well any unexpected speed limit change is normally accompanied by early warning systems so that motorists have fair warning. The possibility of no fair warning under the new system is very high. Quite often on motorways in Europe you can be barrelling alond at high speed and see a mass of emergency flashers in the distance. It's fair warning and doesn't cost anything.

It should also be mandatory to activate your emergency flashers when pulled up at roadworks. Daytime or nighttime, the number of vehicles that pull up put their vehicles in park or neutral and pull their handbrakes on as the last vehicle in the line is a big no,no but many do it. Forewarned is forearmed.

Correct, the poor young people that got cleaned up by the semi out west in nsw would be a prime example. Innocently pulled up in a queue of traffic, who knows what may have happened had there been emergency flashers operating along the whole queue?