A/T Tyre Advice

Submitted: Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 13:53
ThreadID: 136577 Views:1454 Replies:13 FollowUps:17
Hi, at the risk of starting a heated debate, I'm here to ask for advice opinions on which A/Ts to go for.

V6 120 Prado, mainly blacktop driving with the occasional camping trip, beaches, tracks, etc. I'm going to go from 265/65/17 up to 265/70/17 as I have a lift that will accommodate this.

The current Bridgestone 697's are in need of replacement and I've been looking into reviews (from Australia) on the BFG KO2, Hankook Dynapro ATM RF10, Falken AT3, Grabber AT3, Mickey ATZ P3, etc.

The Mickey Thompson's seem to have the best reviews but I've been quoted $1875 for 5 so probably won't go with them.

The two brands that I'm weighting up are as follows:

Bob Jane have a deal that would see 5 of the Hankook Dynapros coming out at $1368. These appear to have good reviews, no real issues. The tread depth does look pretty shallow though, so I'm not too sure whether that affects off road ability or not. Also most of the reviews don't mention off road performance and just talk about long life and low road noise, etc. so I'm keen to hear anyone's opinions on them.

BFG KO2's: Very mixed reviews. People seem to love them or hate them, but I suppose that with any product of that popularity you're going to find a lot of differing opinions. Could it be that there are bad batches going around? Do the countries of manufacture vary? They're $157 more than the Hankooks for 5, so won't make too much difference to the overall cost, but I'm wondering whether all the bad reviews (weak sidewalls, many instances of chipping, difficulties in getting properly balanced, excessive wear, and poor off road) are to be listened to or not. They do look the goods in terms of tread depth/pattern/side lugs, etc. but I'm wondering whether I should just go the Hankooks instead as the reviews appear to be better and they're cheaper.

I know that opinions on tyres are all over the place but thought I might as well ask...

Thanks
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Reply By: friar - Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 14:18

Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 14:18
Had 3 sets of Yokohama Geolander AT, 265/70/17,310 Thousand on the Speedo,no punctures,they suit me for off road, beach ,highway,not noisy even when they become worn.
AnswerID: 618409

Follow Up By: Gbc.. - Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 17:56

Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 17:56
Same. On my third set. Faultless tyres and cheap when the buy 4 get 1 free deal comes on at bob Jane.
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Reply By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 14:28

Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 14:28
Hi

Is there any reason why you have gone away from the standard tyre size?

You can still get almost all brands in the standard sizing.

Do not overlook the new Toyo Open Country A/T in LT construction and a far better tyre than the Bridgestone 697's as well as a lot cheaper.



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Follow Up By: Donlogan - Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 16:03

Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 16:03
Hi Stephen,
Thanks for that. To be honest, with the tyre size I just thought that the bigger the better- more rubber equaling more bagging out of the tyre at low pressures, a slight lift at normal pressure, and that the small increase in diameter wouldn't affect gearing, etc. so might as well go up a size. Plus they'd fill the arches a bit more following the suspension lift.
That being said, I am aware that a 2 inch lift plus larger tyres may present some insurance issues, so would welcome any comment on that too.
Anyway- Toyo Open Country A/T: I'll look into those. If they're a similar price to the Hankooks and the BFG's then they might be contenders. What do you think makes them so much better than the Bridgestones?
Thanks
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 18:39

Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 18:39
Hi Donlogan

I can not comment on the Hankooks re price, but in the past I have only used the Bridgestone in both the old 694's and then a few sets of the 697's, always in LT construction on my Prado.

I use the standard 265/65RX 17 on my Prado and the pricing for the BFG's was shy on $400 per tyre, the Bridgestone's were from $320-$350 per tyre, compared to the Toyo's at $240 per tyre, fitted and balanced and no disposal fee. I had nothing to lose on my first set if they did not wear as good as the Bridgestone, which in my books is crap for a so called great tyre. I had the BFG's on my Ultimate camper and they chipped so badly, it was a joke and for that very reason, put new Toyo's on there as well and they are wearing perfect, not one single chip, and have travelled are worse roads.

I only let my tyres go down to no more than 50% tread, as we do lots of bush work and that way I have the best possible tread when heading away. I have now done over 25k on the Toyo's and I still have lots more mileage before the get close to my 50% tread, where as my old Bridgestone's would be almost time to swap over.

As for a bigger tyre giving you better bagging, that is not correct and if we both had the same tyre pressures and vehicles side by side, they would almost look identical. You will find that the tyre pressures it what gives you a gives you a longer footprint , and of course, the lower the tyre pressue, the longer the footprint and the greater bagging effect. Traction in sand and mud has nothing to do with how bagged out the tyre is, but the greater footprint on the surface.

I do not work for Toyo, but so far these are the best tyre I have ever put on my Prado and will be patting them on again when the get down to 50%.




Cheers




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Follow Up By: splits - Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 19:49

Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 19:49
with the tyre size I just thought that the bigger the better- more rubber equaling more bagging out of the tyre at low pressures
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Keep in mind the wider the tyre the bigger the target it makes for anything that can cause a puncture.

There is some interesting tyre foot print comparisons on this page, particularly the ones at the bottom.Contact patch
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Reply By: Member - mark D18 - Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 16:28

Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 16:28
Donlogan .

Any of the brands you mentioned will be fine as well as the Toyo mentioned
All the name brand tyres are much the same these days .
Go with the best value .

Cheers
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Reply By: Frank P (NSW) - Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 17:06

Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 17:06
I had BFG KOs in 265/70-17 on a 120 Prado and was very happy with them, though they did chip a bit. Had 3 sets while I had the car.

Now using the same size in KO2s on my BT50. I'm just as happy, maybe a bit more because these later tyres don't seem to chip.

I estimate my useage is 50/50 highway and dirt. Depending on the condition of the dirt, I run them pretty soft, which would accentuate any sidewall issues. I've never had sidewall damage in 10 years, except once on the camper (same tyre) which cut the corner going around a tree and got staked.

I don't know what they're talking about re weak sidewalls - as far as I am concerned that is BS. I find wear is average with what I do, about 60k with a 5 tyre rotation, NEVER had a balancing problem and conversely to what you've heard, excellent off-road performance, both on formed dirt roads and fire trails and alpine tracks.
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Reply By: Theo D - Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 18:06

Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 18:06
Theres been a few AT tyre threads lately... have a scroll through and check em out.

You've listed many brands in your initial post. There are many good tyres out there which will certainly suit your needs.

The Toyo's are certainly very popular at the moment.

You mentioned the Mickey P3's. IMHO, they are a wicked tyre with lots of life but theres many AT tyres which will do 100K per set. Sure they are 8 or 10 ply thickness (they could be more, forget) but as I've been told by many people who live and work in the Cape - if you're going to stake a tyre, you're going to stake a tyre! A tyre with a Light Truck rating, same deal - if you're going to stake a tyre, you're going to stake a tyre! Think of the things that bust into tyres, they go along way into the tyre whether thats in the centre or the sidewall etc

My last set of Geolanders ATs (the 2012 models, not the earlier ones) did 110K and could have done more. I found them to be very good alround tyre, awesome in sand.

Hope this helps
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Reply By: Gazza70 - Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 18:06

Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 18:06
Any reason why you are wanting to change from the Bridgestones?

Just interested thats all!

Cheers Gazza
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 18:48

Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 18:48
Hi Gazza

Based on my 5 sets of Bridgestone 694 and 697's all in LT construction, they can not be compared to the new Toyo Open Country A/T 2 for value and tread wear, they are just miles apart.

In the past I would praise the Bridgestone for a great all rounder, but no longer and at this stage would never go back to them, not unless they could match the Toyo in price, which as nearly $100 per tyre dearer and can guarantee they will wear better than Toyo's

Just my honest dealings with both tyres.



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Follow Up By: Member - Suitcase (QLD) - Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 19:42

Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 19:42
Stephen
Can you give us some indication of the prices you are talking about here - for the 265/70/17 that Donlogan is talking about.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 20:35

Thursday, Apr 19, 2018 at 20:35
Hi suitcase

Sorry but I can not comment on the size that he is talking about, as I have always fitted the standard size that are recommended on my Prado, being 265/65R17 in LT construction

Before my BFG's started chipping on the camper, I thought they were going to be a good tyre from what I have hear, and when I posted a comment about them chipping on the camper, all the "So called experts" jumped down on me, saying that because they were the last set of tyres, they picked up all the stone from the front 4 tyres, which is just complete and utter garbage.

I was quoted $397 per tyre for the BFG, $320 and $350 for more 697 Bridgestone's and $240 per tyre do fitted, balanced and no tyre disposal for my new Toyo's. It was a no brainer and had nothing to lose if they turned out to be not as good as my previous Bridgestone's.

From my very bad experience with the BFG's on the camper, I put a set of Toyo's 265/75R 16 on the camper for the grand price of only $235 per tyre. Last year alone the new camper tyres covered over 10k through the Kimberley, including the Duncan Road, Gibb River Road, Tanami Track, double trips on the Central Arnhem Highway and many other rough tracks around the area.

So much for the quote that "my BFG's only chipped because they were the 3rd set of wheels and picked up all the stones"' as when you inspect my Toyo's on my camper, there is not one mark on them and they are like new. Those facts alone proved that it was down to tyre brand alone.

I have nothing but praise for the new Toyo Open Country A/T 2 compared to my old Bridgestone tyres, and my Toyo's have a higher load rating and strong ply's in the sidewalls.



Hope that answers your question.



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Follow Up By: KevinE - Friday, Apr 20, 2018 at 09:43

Friday, Apr 20, 2018 at 09:43
I totally agree with your comments about the trailer tyres only chipping because they were the last set & copped all of the stones from the car's tyres Stephen. When we bought an off road camper trailer new in 2012, it came with Chinese "Good Ride" brand road tyres on it. My thoughts about them were that they probably wouldn't last & we'd replace them when they failed. We went on a few shake down trips with the camper & all seemed good. So, off we went up through Glass Gorge, Oodnadatta track, Painted Desert, Dalhousie, Mt. Dare, Lambert's Centre, Old Ghan Track, Chamber's Pillar, Alice, Palm Valley, Mereenie Loop & then home. The tyres still looked like new when we got home (apart from red dust stains). Next trip on those tyres was up the Silver City Hwy to Tibooburra, Cameron Cnr, Epsilon track, Innamincka, Thargo, Charleville, Quilpie, Eromanga, Warri Gate, home. Then Bourke, Dowling Track, Eulo, Windorah, Birdsville, Birdsville Track, Flinders, Home. The last big trip we did on those tyres before we sold the camper was Adelaide - Mataranka, Roper Bar, Lorella Springs, King Ash Bay, Hells Gate, Doomagee, Cloncurry, Winton, Longreach, and home via Bourke. Sold the camper almost exactly 5 years to the day since we bought it & those Good Rides still looked almost new! Apart from those big trips, we also took the camper to YP, up the river, and the Flinders a few times. When the Navara needed new tyres, I started to wonder about Chinese AT's! My logic being that the Good Rides had coped well, so......? I put Sailun Terramax AT's on the Navara (for no other reason than that's what my local discount tyre dealer was selling) & crossed my fingers! I haven't looked back! We now have them on both of our 4x4's & are extremely happy with them. I'm not recommending them for anyone else, but at $165 per corner fitted, I'm smiling! :)
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Friday, Apr 20, 2018 at 14:02

Friday, Apr 20, 2018 at 14:02
Hi Kevin

Great to hear that you also have had no issues the the tyres on your camper, and your case as well as mine with the Toyo's now on my camper, goes to show that it is the brand of tyre that will chip, or not chip.

Cheers




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Follow Up By: nickb - Saturday, Apr 21, 2018 at 00:48

Saturday, Apr 21, 2018 at 00:48
I second all Stephen says.

I have had BFG mud tyres, Mickey Thompson ATZ 4-rib, Maxxix 980 and Toyo at2. Best so far is the Maxxis and Toyo, but the Toyos were much quieter. Had the Toyos for 36,000km on my last Pajero when it was sold, still had 60%+ left. I will get the Toyos again soon on my new-to-me Ranger.

Great in the wet, gravel, on road and sand. Not so good in mud as is expected.
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Reply By: friar - Friday, Apr 20, 2018 at 06:34

Friday, Apr 20, 2018 at 06:34
When I purchased my Prado in 2007 you could not buy light truck tyres to fit it in 265/65/17,went to the 265/70/17 gives slight better ground clearance & to me looks better filling up the guards,they are 10 ply,I run them at 30psi,when not loaded & 36 loaded,Bob Jane always tells me I am running them to low,300 thousand out of 3 sets,no wheel alinement, I must be doing something right, rotate them with the spare every 10 th kys, get lucky some times, with not having to get them balanced on the rotation, I have had BFG,Bribgestones,Coopers,on previous vehicles,the Yokohama’s have had the least road noise out of them all ,good mileage ,not noisy,balance up good,so far puncture free, this is why I have stuck with them.
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Reply By: Phil B (WA) - Friday, Apr 20, 2018 at 09:02

Friday, Apr 20, 2018 at 09:02
Everyone's got opinions and favourites re tyres based on experiences and where they go or have been.

Maybe try a different angle. I have a number of sets of tyres but my tyres of choice, for cross country 4Wding, are Goodyear Wrangler MTRs. Why?

Because I get a repair or replacement warranty for 4 years and it works.

If you get a puncture and it can't be legally repaired i.e. in sidewall, they replace the tyre pro rata plus fitting and balancing - No Arguements.

I have had them for about 6 years and so far have received over $4,000 in benefit from Goodyear and I still have six almost new tyres on my vehicle.

Are they any good you may ask? Yes with thicker sidewalls and Kevlar belting they are far more resist to punctures than my other sets being Mud KO's and AT KM2s. I save the BFGs for regular off roading etc and use the Wranglers for cross country work. On a recent trip doing cross country work in mulga country and I was lead vehicle, I got two slow leaks whereas those following in my wheel tracks wrecked tyres or got up to three punctures each.

Wranglers are excellent value for money - they are a robust tyre and the insurance makes them top of the heap in my opinion.

PS. You can only get the warranty from a Beaurepaires store.

es



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Follow Up By: Theo D - Friday, Apr 20, 2018 at 17:33

Friday, Apr 20, 2018 at 17:33
Can back this post up!

People give Good Years a bad name. They are tough as and offer good mileage.

The best of all the Wrangler models are the Duratrac's - hands down. They are a very aggressive AT much like a Mickey Thompson. I got 75K out of a set on an old work vehicle and they spent 80% of their time on dirt. Never an issue.

The Silent Armour models.... stay a mile away. They offer excellent mileage but are horrible off the blacktop. I mean really horrible!!!!!
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Friday, Apr 20, 2018 at 17:40

Friday, Apr 20, 2018 at 17:40
I had Wrangler MT's on a Landcruiser work ute some years back. Only tyres I've ever got >50K kms from. Good tyre in the bush too!

Bob

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Follow Up By: Idler Chris - Friday, Apr 20, 2018 at 23:24

Friday, Apr 20, 2018 at 23:24
Phil a lot depends on what you pay for the Wranglers. I agree they are good tyres but the last time I looked at them they were expensive. What do the Wranglers cost?
I run Federal Couragia M/T 265/75R16 and the last ones cost me $210 a corner. I replace them every two years which is about 40 thousand kilometres and they are 50 to 60 percent worn. New rubber feels great and less prone to punctures. I think that having tyres over 50% worn in the outback is not worth the risk.
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Follow Up By: Phil B (WA) - Saturday, Apr 21, 2018 at 05:26

Saturday, Apr 21, 2018 at 05:26
Chris,
I use BFGs for regular low puncture risk 4wding and save the Wranglers for cross country work.

The point I was making about the Wranglers is pro rata replacement should they suffer a non repairable puncture.


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Follow Up By: Idler Chris - Saturday, Apr 21, 2018 at 16:16

Saturday, Apr 21, 2018 at 16:16
Phil,
My point is a pro rata replacement is only good if the price of the tyre is similar to their competitors and not built into the tyre price.

I run Federal Couragia 265/75R16 and paid $210 last time I brought some.
If I go here
https://cartyresandyou.com.au/brands/goodyear/wrangler-mt-r-kevlar.html
the same size Wrangler tyre is $383. I don't see paying $173 more per tyre to get a pro rata replacement is good value.

Not ever having Wranglers I cannot comment on their performance but from what you have said I have no doubt they are extremely good. However I find the Federals do everything I expect plus more, so see no reason to change.

I travel from 3 to 5 months of the year and will not leave home with tyres less than 50%. This means a tyre lasts me 2 years which is about 40,000. Because I do not let my tyres get too worn, and together with having Sensa-tyre internal rim mounted tyre monitors over the last 60,000 kilometres I have never had to use my spare tyre. Every puncture I have had, and there have been a few, I have been able to plug. Because if this reliability, these days I only carry one spare. I further save weight by no longer carrying a beadbraker and tyre irons because these Federals are very strong (read heavy) and they are impossible to get on or off a rim without hydraulic equipment. This probably horrifies some but it works for me.
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Reply By: Erad - Friday, Apr 20, 2018 at 12:30

Friday, Apr 20, 2018 at 12:30
Firstly, I'll put my hard hat on now, because I expect a lot of people will jump on me. The designers of the car have a lot more experience than I do, and I bet everyone else on this forum. They decided that they would specify a certain size and type of tyre (or shock absorber, or spring rate or...). People buy the vehicle and then go out and undo what the original designer had put a lot of thought into. Yes - I can hear you screaming now, and you may have a point or two as well.

Firstly, it is always a compromise what they specify for tyres. Basically there are highway tyres and there are off-roaders (muddies etc). There is a fair bit of grey in between as well. People tend to go for fatter tyres "because they bag out better when the pressure is dropped". WRONG! When tyre pressure is dropped the bagging tends to be along the tread rather than across it. And this is exactly what you want. In sand or snow, you don't want to be bulldozing a track a foot wide if you can get the same contact area with a narrower tyre. You are after flotation and if you are pushing less sand aside, you will go further. Another reason not to go too wide is that you are exposing the sidewalls more to damage when you drop the pressures. Years ago, I had the first model Cortina and my friends all had VW's. In the snow, the Cortina killed them. A VW with wintertread tyres would climb a tree, but in deep snow, the wheels used to sag down until they they ran out of road to grip. Then the VW just sat on the snow - dead. My Cortina had Michelin tyres on it. The tread was less than 100 mm wide and they were very baggy, but it used to leave tracks in the snow about 2" (50 mm) deep. The tread contacted the road surface over about 16" (40 mm). Both cars were of similar weight. It went a lot further in deep snow that the VW's ever could.

Secondly, regarding staking a tyre, some of the AT tyres have 3 plies in the sidewalls. The highway tyres certainly have only two, and maybe even a single layer of reinforcement in the sidewalls. These tyres will have less internal friction and therefore will run cooler and use less fuel. So there are advantages to having an AT tyre on your 4WD, particularly if you frequently travel on gravel or stony roads. The Hankook AT RF-10 has 3 plies on the sidewall, and also a heavy rubber skin which (hopefully) will increase resistance to staking. Some of the other brands also have the 3 ply sidewalls and heavier rubber on the sidewalls.
Increasing the diameter will give you more ground clearance, but it also effectively makes for taller gearing. This can sometimes have advantages, but the original designers have put a lot of thought into choosing the gearing, and you run the risk of stuffing things up - particularly if you have automatic transmission.
So I'll now run for cover as every gets steamed up and throws things at me. There are consequences for changing the original design concept of a vehicle. By all means modify or adapt your vehicle to suit your needs, but try to look deeply into the effect of any such change before you jump.
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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Friday, Apr 20, 2018 at 19:32

Friday, Apr 20, 2018 at 19:32
I will just put this info in here, because I can :)
Quite a few OKA owners are fitting Michelin XML 325/85R16s to their vehicles on 9"rims. That is a pretty big tyre.
I hear that they are not very nice on the black top, but that they out perform anything in the bush.
They have a max. load capacity of 5075 lbs (that is well over 2 tonns per tyre) at 65psi and are designed for low pressure operations.
They are all steel construction and have a SINGLE ply sidewall.
This is the same tyre that the Australian Military uses on its 8X8 APCs.
I covet a set........ :)

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome
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Reply By: Bob Y. - Qld - Friday, Apr 20, 2018 at 20:40

Friday, Apr 20, 2018 at 20:40
Just this week, I've replaced the original, very ordinary Dunlop AT-1's(265.70R16) on our 79 series Landcruiser, with Toyo AT II's 265.75R16's. I don't think the sky will fall in because I've gone up one tyre size, and I know from past experience that the Toyo's should wear well.

On an 80 series wagon we had, we ran BFG AT's in 265.75R16, and never had a major drama with them. In over 200K clicks, only had 1 flat, but none of them lasted more then 35K, the tread would chip away until they were worn out. I believe this fault may have been rectified in later offerings?

Bob

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Follow Up By: Member - Blue M - Saturday, Apr 21, 2018 at 04:31

Saturday, Apr 21, 2018 at 04:31
Bob, I changed my original, very ordinary Dunlop AT-1's(265.70R16) at 22,150 k.
This was all bitumen driving around Rockhampton.
I rotated them 3 times and had 3 wheel alignments in that distance.
Measured with a tread depth gauge and they had a tad over 3 mil left.
Terrible in the wet and starting to get noisy.
What did you get out of yours?

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Saturday, Apr 21, 2018 at 07:28

Saturday, Apr 21, 2018 at 07:28
I cheated, Blue! Bought 4 more used wheels, 13K use he said, and got a few kms out of those. Suppose I would have got close to 30K out of the originals? They did about 3-4 trips across the Simpson, and a few laps down to the Wide Bay area.

Bob

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Reply By: Steve - Saturday, Apr 21, 2018 at 12:16

Saturday, Apr 21, 2018 at 12:16
To the OP:

Mate, I don’t know where you got your pricing from but I bought Hankook 265/65/17 rf10 Dynapros for $210 @ last year. My BFGs were $330/350 a few years back. That’s a bit more than $157 difference for 5. I really like the bfgs, particularly for the puncture resistance over three sets (maybe I’ve been lucky?) but after talking to my supplier, opted for the Hankook this time. Certainly look a decent tyre but I haven’t really put them through much work yet.
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Reply By: Member - Paul M55 - Saturday, Apr 28, 2018 at 12:00

Saturday, Apr 28, 2018 at 12:00
You can experiment for years but the only answer bf goodrich A/T there expensive but you get what you pay for.
AnswerID: 618575

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