HF Noise in Toyota Landcruiser LC100 Turbo

Submitted: Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 14:43
ThreadID: 13663 Views:3200 Replies:13 FollowUps:8
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Hi,

I am experiencing heavy interference on the lower HF Radio bands (1.8-14MHz) being produced by my Toyota Landcruiser LC100 Turbo.

Can anyone provide me with some ideas about eliminating this radio interference.

Don't tell me to "switch the engine off" I already know that :-)

Thanks for looking and I await your responses.
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Reply By: Kiwi Ray - Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 14:48

Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 14:48
Hi VK3FY
Have you been able to identify where the interference is coming from? i.e. blinkers, wipers, ect
This would help in makingsome suggestions
Ray
AnswerID: 62642

Follow Up By: VK3FY - Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 14:54

Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 14:54
Hi,

Thanks for the quick response.

It would seem that the oil pressure sensor maybe one cause, fuel pump maybe another. I hope its not the injectors.

I notice that when the vehicle is in cruise mode and it starts to slow down the noiuse dissappears for a fraction of a second.

Hope this sheds some light.

Chris
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FollowupID: 323954

Reply By: joc45 - Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 15:12

Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 15:12
Without going into specifics of LC100s, this is a problem with some newer diesel engines which use very fast electrical pulses to switch on/off fuel injectors. The electrical pulses emit quite a bit of EMI, which is difficult to suppress. Reducing the rise time of these pulses will reduce the EMI, but may affect the timing and/or performance of the engine. A friend spent some considerable time with test equipment tracking the source of the EMI in his diesel Disco, and as much time again reducing it without affecting the performance.
Gerry
AnswerID: 62644

Reply By: The Banjo - Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 15:13

Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 15:13
VK....welcome to the club....been battling with for years (given up)....its a biggy....lot of people been working on it......lot of early posts on it here (might still be there)......could be the same as my TD Jack.......injector circuity....take your footoff the gun while cruising down a hill (injectors off - no noise). Some so-called gurus have told me its close to impossible to eliminate - the injectors are putting out a signal far stronger than anything you are trying to pick up (on any HF radio - Doc, CB, car radio etc) and the injector signal takes priority. In the city where signals are strong, its ok - in the low signal/bush areas, its absolutely hopeless. Many of us have to kill the motor to use an HF for reliable comms. Great huh ?
Manufacturers !
AnswerID: 62645

Follow Up By: VK3FY - Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 15:36

Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 15:36
Hi Banjo,

I was really hoping it wasn't that but what can I say. Your description is exactly what it sounds like.

Now what did your mate do to try an elliminate the darn noise?

It is without doubt a major oversight by Toyota to produce a 4x4 that won't let you communicate with your radio. Its a damm shame.

I rang them but they won't accept that its an oversight. I explained to them its not a Feature and I am sure they wont want it overlly publised that it is a negative for their model.

If its a common problem with all current direct injected models then it needs to be stressed to the manufactures that they have an obligation to the community to provide a safety features in their manufactured goods that don't prevent its customers from communication and in the outback this is a major issue.

Thanks for responding so promptly
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FollowupID: 323957

Follow Up By: The Banjo - Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 16:19

Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 16:19
Not sure re your query about my mate and the elimination......the interference was so bad on my car radio I went back to the dealer and said I can't use the radio when just out of the city (75km). They then fessed up and "found" a warranty bulletin re the fitting of a supressor to the car radio....they did this for nix and it helped a bit (but still hopeless in the bush). They of course recalled nobody - just responded to those that kicked up ! I got a supressor from Eurovox and fitted that to the CB HF (useless - the CB has very big "ears"). I would not even bother to raise it with Isuzu or Holden - have lost all faith with the dealer (other issues) re goodwill to clients. It does stink - you are correct there.....but with many things like this, we are on our own. Tojo will probably tell you that "we never suggested the car was HF compliant !" When I have plenty of time, I might try shielding the injectors but I guess the actual circuit is radiating the signal and it might be totally impractical. Seems the signal is "wide" in nature and therefore hard to cater for if looking to filter it out at the radio end. I did contact Barrett about mine...it was an issue they were working on, as I understood (I gather not much can be expected in the near future).
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FollowupID: 323962

Reply By: Kiwi Ray - Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 15:55

Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 15:55
Not much left for me to say,
This will not be cheap but you could try an earthed metal braid sleeve over the wiring for the radio, this is often used on large machinery fitted with data transfer units
Ray
AnswerID: 62650

Reply By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 15:59

Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 15:59
Now I have concerns!! ARrgh, I was just preping up to get an HF for the Surf, but having an EFI Diesel I hope I don't run into all these problems, but the TD Jack and LC100 have very similar electrics to mine.... Bummer...
AnswerID: 62651

Follow Up By: Outnabout David (SA) - Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 17:09

Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 17:09
Jeff,

I have a Barrett with autotune antenna on the back and don't have any problems in Prado Turbo diesel. this is the second TD and no probs in either. Do you have the 1ktz engine in the surf. If so it is the same as the Prado basically but i am sure you already knowe that.
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FollowupID: 323971

Follow Up By: Member - Jeff M (WA) - Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 17:14

Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 17:14
Beauty, yeah I have the 1kz-te, thanks David.
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FollowupID: 323972

Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 10:19

Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 10:19
Peter2, If the negative line is fused as some are do you see any probs in connecting direct to the battery?
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FollowupID: 324052

Follow Up By: Peter 2 - Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 20:02

Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 20:02
That would be ok but I prefer to attach the negative at the other end of the cable from the battery where it connects to either chassis or body, no fuse required and one less source of problems.
Peter
1996 Oka Motorhome

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Reply By: davidta - Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 16:06

Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 16:06
Hi

I had a problem on Xmit in my '97 Discovery Diesel but recieve wasn't too bad - caused by injectors.

My 3.0 L Patrol with its high tech motor is very quiet on HF.
AnswerID: 62652

Reply By: Davoe - Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 16:27

Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 16:27
I get static on the radio when listening to faint stations during outbck driving the solution is simple I pull the fuel control rod off of the edic motor and turn the ignition off so there is no electrical interferance whilem driving - but this doesnt help you
AnswerID: 62653

Reply By: Member - Captain (WA) - Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 16:30

Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 16:30
Hi there,

I have a Barret 550 HF with auto tune antena mounted at the rear. I do not seem to have any EMF type noise with the 3.0TD motor running.

Cheers

Captain
Its not what you drive, but how you drive it!
LC 200 + AOR Quantum

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AnswerID: 62655

Reply By: James M - Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 16:58

Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 16:58
Quite a while ago I received transmission noise through my HF CB. I fitted what was called a "DC choke". This seemed to help.
I don't know if this will help you. But they are only a few dollars.
I assume you are running your negative wire straight from the battery. That can also help eliminate noise.
AnswerID: 62658

Reply By: Ian B - Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 18:33

Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 18:33
First of all, you'll never get rid of totally. Sorry.

The noise appears to be generated by the electrical timing cct for the fuel pump and earthing issues associated with the body panels (it's glued in places for extra strength). Some vehicles appear to be worse than others and the same fix does not work on all vehicles.

Putting chokes into the wires between the fuel pump and control electrics makes the biggest difference from what I've observed. Having all your radio equipment located at the rear of the vehicle may also help.

The injectors are fully mechanical on the 1HD-FTE engine so don't bother looking there.

Start with the basics on this problem, power and earth connections for all components of your HF setup.

If the problem continues to be major, you'll need some professional help to minimize the problem.

Grinch

PS: Post back with the fix[es] if you manage to get things acceptable.
AnswerID: 62675

Reply By: Peter 2 - Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 19:28

Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 at 19:28
I have installed HF's in 4wd's for about 20 years, but stopped about 4 years ago partly due to the problems associated with modern vehicles.
Most of the EFI v6 engined mid range (pajero, jackaroo etc) were the first to encounter inteference probs, by hitting the tune button you could actually stop the engine on some Pajero's.
TD5 engined Landys are virtually unable to use a HF while the engine is running due to EMF from the injection system. Virtually anything with electronic injectors will give you grief.
Toyota's problems are usually due to the oil pressure sender, a suppressor capacitor fitted between the centre terminal and the outer case drops it back to a reasonable level.
NEVER connect the negative power cable from any accessory especially HF's to the negative terminal of the battery. If the ground connection to the engine and body comes off, breaks or makes a poor connection guess where the high (over 5-600 amps) goes, you guessed it through the next best thing, the HF. They never work again after they have started an engine a couple of times.
If you put earth straps on all doors, bonnet, tailgate, exhaust (several) you may reduce the interference but I'm afraid you will never remove it entirely. Extra ground straps fitted between the body and chassis may also help.
A HF has a very sensitive receiver stage, it will pick up anything generating interference.
We have a set routine when receiving a selcall, pull over and shut the engine off, kill the stereo, GPS, frig and anything else to be able to use the HF especially if the signal is weak. This is on a vehicle that is very quiet electrically.
Peter
Peter
1996 Oka Motorhome

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AnswerID: 62679

Follow Up By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 10:21

Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 10:21
Peter, If the negative line is fused, as some are, do you see any probs in connecting direct to the battery?
0
FollowupID: 324053

Reply By: The Banjo - Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 09:09

Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 09:09
Amen to Peter, VK.......that's our plan......make our radphone calls when stopped (they run best, middle of the day), do our comms with VKS737 early or late in the day, and leave the radio on selcall scan while mobile.....if we get a selcall, we pull over and take the call.
AnswerID: 62762

Reply By: Member - Tim&jan - Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 11:11

Friday, Jun 11, 2004 at 11:11
trade it in for a nissan
AnswerID: 62773

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