Thursday, Jun 21, 2018 at 22:33
I do not recall ever seeing any factory automotive engine built in the last 50 years with cast iron conrods.
Cast iron is completely unsuitable for use as conrod material because it has enormous strength under compression, but very little strength under tension.
Cast iron conrods would fracture when the piston stops suddenly at the end of the crank throw.
Cast iron is used for camshaft material in 98% of automotive engines, because it is a highly suitable material for that use, and because it can be chill-hardened to extreme hardness, as required for camshaft lobes.
Cast iron is used for many crankshafts, because it provides satisfactory performance in that position.
The YD25 engine fitted to the D40 Navara is a bundle of trouble.
The problems are many, and they are all costly to fix.
1. The YD25 lower simplex (single row) timing chain is exceptionally weak, and it stretches, then breaks - with resultant major engine damage.
The cure is a replacement duplex chain - at sizeable cost.
For vehicle owners with original chains, it is recommended that the simplex chain be replaced at 80,000kms and inspected every 40,000kms thereafter.
Sometimes, if the engine doesn't fire up immediately upon cranking, it will stall and kick backwards - thus allowing the chain tensioner piston to travel backwards, and thereby giving the stretched chain enough slack to skip over the gear teeth - causing valve timing to go out of phase.
The result will be serious engine damage when the engine does start.
YD25 single row timing chain failures
2. The simplex timing chain tensioner is prone to excessive wear and failure. There are improved and modified tensioners available - at more cost.
3. The YD25 cast iron crankshaft is prone to fracturing at the number 4 rod journal between approximately 90,000kms and 160,000kms.
This is caused by poor quality cast iron, or poor quality heat treatment, and possible engine balance issues.
In essence, the YD25 engine has a weak crankshaft.
Changing the Dual-Mass factory flywheel to a solid flywheel will accentuate the crankshaft weakness, and cause earlier crankshaft failure.
4. All the major engine fasteners (conrod bolts, main bearing cap bolts, and head studs), are not re-useable.
This is because they stretch after one tightening, and lose their ability to fasten properly.
If someone has worked on the engine and loosened, and then re-used these fasteners, they are just waiting to fail prematurely.
5. A known issue with the YD25 is excessive bearing clearances from the factory, caused by poor engineering and poor assembly, resulting in inadequate bearing crush.
6. The YD25 oil pump gear is manufactured using a process known as "sintered metal". Sintered metal is a process whereby finely powdered metal is injected into a mold, which is then subject to great heat and pressure, forming a solid part in the process.
It is a process now extensively used in automotive manufacturing, because it is faster and cheaper than forging, stamping, or machining a part from a billet.
Properly done, sintered metal components are quite satisfactory in many applications, where stress levels are low.
Unfortunately, Nissan engineers miscalculated the strength needed for the oil pump gear on the YD25 and failures of this sintered metal gear are not infrequent.
YD25 oil pump gear failures
7. The YD25 EGR cooler has regular failures caused by the cooler splitting internally or around its flanged ends. Often the leaking coolant is not seen because it evaporates.
If the low coolant is not noticed, the engine will overheat and possible serious engine damage is the result.
8. The factory recommends 5W-30 oil for the engine. This is an unsuitable grade of oil for Australian conditions, and results in poor lubrication performance at high ambient temperatures, or high working temperatures.
A more suitable oil grade for the Navara in Australia is 15W-40.
A list of Navara recalls ....
Nissan Navara official recalls and problems list
Nissan actually gave some kind of weak apology in 2014, for the poor levels of build quality in the Navaras built between about 2005 and 2012 - but they still played down the substantial amount of Navara problems.
Nissan promises build quality will improve with new Navara
I'm not so sure that anything much has changed at Nissan - and one thing they are
well-known for, is treating customers badly when the customer lodges a build quality, or vehicle performance complaint.
Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Friday, Jun 22, 2018 at 11:03
Friday, Jun 22, 2018 at 11:03
Wow :-(
Macca.
FollowupID:
892059
Follow Up By: RMD - Friday, Jun 22, 2018 at 17:30
Friday, Jun 22, 2018 at 17:30
G'day Ron
You have a bit more info than I have re the Wonderful Nissan donk. I wasn't aware of the oil pump issue, essentially the engines are poor quality. So many problems designed into one single engine. It makes you think engineers were not involved in it's development, or the bean counters had a gun to their heads.
I see Macca is surprised, it is simply good info backed with fact.
A local vehicle to me, had noises similar to timing chain noise at under 40,000km and it continued to get worse as KM's grew. The dealer flatly repeatedly refused to admit it was the issue. They had to have known because of the history of the engines. At 85,000km the owner made more noise than the timing chain and it was reluctantly replaced along with the damaged sprockets. Just in time before engine destruction.
I had some dealings with the company and represented a bloke being carved up after his purchase of a D40 and most people would be stunned at the dealer and company attitude and responses. If you want to be/feel helpless and worthless with a problem, then these provide opportunity for that.
That old saying is true.
We don't mind and you don't matter.
FollowupID:
892067
Follow Up By: KevinE - Friday, Jun 22, 2018 at 18:49
Friday, Jun 22, 2018 at 18:49
"I see Macca is surprised, it is simply good info backed with fact."
Re Ron's point 8: I'm looking at page 9-7 of the owner's manual. There are actually 7 oil types listed there by Nissan & a chart matching oil type to the owner's particular climate.
Ron says "A more suitable oil grade for the Navara in Australia is 15W-40"
Well Nissan actually do recommend this oil grade for those in the climate where its suited, in the owner's manual.
Facts?
It kind of discredits his whole post IMO.
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892068
Follow Up By: Ron N - Friday, Jun 22, 2018 at 21:15
Friday, Jun 22, 2018 at 21:15
Kevin - From 2007, Nissan changed the oil recommendation for the YD25 engine, to 5W-30. Their relevant Technical Bulletin is MB1204.
Navara D40 oil recommendation - Exploroz (Aug. 2007)Penrite Enviro C-4 - the premium 5W-30 recommended for Navara
The early Spanish-built D40 Navara is a dog, and Nissan still have problems with the latest NP300 model - sagging springs being just one.
That's without even mentioning the D40 Navara chassis corrosion problems encountered in the wetter regions of the world - that most Australian Navaras have so far managed to avoid, due to our largely dry climate, and the fact that our roads aren't salted in Winter.
However, anyone doing boating in salt water with a Navara would need to be made aware of the Navara's chassis corrosion potential.
There is talk of a class action against Nissan for their major chassis corrosion problems, and there is even a Farcebook, "Nissan Navara snapped chassis Group" page.
In addition, the U.K. Govt has established a Government Transport Select Committee to investigate the Navara chassis corrosion concerns.
Of course, the standard response from Nissan is to downplay any concerns, and talk about "very low numbers", involving chassis corrosion problems.
Furious UK Navara owners want all D40's recalled for chassis corrosion issuesD40 Navara chassis snap drama
Cheers, Ron.
FollowupID:
892069
Follow Up By: KevinE - Friday, Jun 22, 2018 at 21:23
Friday, Jun 22, 2018 at 21:23
Neither of your links are from Nissan Ron.
Please put up credible info from Nissan about oils.
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Follow Up By: RMD - Saturday, Jun 23, 2018 at 10:00
Saturday, Jun 23, 2018 at 10:00
Kevin E
If you look at just one state, ie, NSW dept of Fair Trading vehicle complaint resolution and read the requency of reports of dealer and company actions regarding inferior D40 and D22 Navaras, it is interesting to see those vehicles feature quite often with regard to other makes and complaints.
After reading the Fair Trading info and see the range of porblems and dealer and Company attitude to valued customers, you would not buy one. Not even if they promise to make the new model better, as they do, which is an admission of shortcomings in itself.
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Saturday, Jun 23, 2018 at 10:45
Saturday, Jun 23, 2018 at 10:45
Kevin, I'm not about to, nor am I able, to put up "credible links from Nissan" for oil recommendations, for the following reasons.
1. Technical Service Bulletins are corporate information bulletins from Head Office to Dealers and authorised agents.
It is not possible to legally acquire any of those bulletins, unless you are approved as a Nissan dealer or repairer.
These TSB's are a sore point between companies and repairers - and in America, repairers commenced a class action to get the automotive companies to release their TSB information to any repairer.
The companies countered with the argument that the information was "commercial in confidence", and was not for general public consumption.
The repairers had a small win and the courts ordered the automotive manufacturers to release some technical information that was stopping repairers such as smash repair shops, from repairing vehicles.
However, the automotive manufacturers still keep the bulk of their technical information close to their chest.
2. Nissan and its dealers and repairers can't agree on the oil type to be used. Nissan are stating that 5W-30 oil is to be used, and only the Nissan brand of oil.
However, it appears some Nissan dealers and authorised repairers are using 15W-40 instead - possibly because they see the results of using too thin a grade of oil.
It is also quite likely that many Dealers and authorised repairers are using a "generic" brand of oil.
They are there to make money, they are likely to only purchase the cheapest brand of oil that will do the job.
3. Nissan take its oil grade recommendations from the oil companies, who manufacture the oil.
Often, either or both the oil company and the automotive manufacturer dither about the correct oil grade, and make changes to the recommended grade of oil.
You can have a manual that states certain grades for certain temperature ranges - then you find that both the oil manufacturer and the vehicle manufacturer will advise you that the information in your manual is obsolete, and you need to take notice of the latest recommendations.
This comes about, because the oil manufacturing process is a moving target, and new additives are frequently found by lubrication engineers, and added to oils - and the API are constantly upgrading oil classifications.
The API diesel oils classifications have changed 14 times since oil classifications were introduced after WW2.
Of those 14 diesel oil classifications, 10 are listed as "obsolete", and only 4 are "current".
It's interesting to note that the oldest "current" classification, was only released in 1998.
API diesel oil classifications
Cheers, Ron.
FollowupID:
892076
Follow Up By: KevinE - Saturday, Jun 23, 2018 at 20:09
Saturday, Jun 23, 2018 at 20:09
"Kevin, I'm not about to, nor am I able, to put up "credible links from Nissan" for oil recommendations"
Enough said.
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892081