Suggestions on mounting a sand flag without bull bar or roof racks ?

Submitted: Thursday, Sep 13, 2018 at 19:25
ThreadID: 137247 Views:1876 Replies:17 FollowUps:25
Greetings all

Friends of mine will be crossing the Simpson in a few weeks in a current model Mitsubishi Triton Dual Cab with no bull bar, no nudge bar and no roof racks of any sort - and they don't want a bull bar, nudge bar or roof racks ! They have a fiberglass canopy fitted also without racks.

Any ideas on how they can mount a sand flag to their vehicle without going to too much trouble or expense ??

I am posting this here because I know there are some very very smart lateral thinking people on this great site !

Look forward to your replies

Cheers

Gazz
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Reply By: rumpig - Thursday, Sep 13, 2018 at 19:37

Thursday, Sep 13, 2018 at 19:37
Maybe they could use something like a uhf aerial bonnet mount EBay Ads here
Pics Here
AnswerID: 621194

Follow Up By: Member - Outback Gazz - Thursday, Sep 13, 2018 at 19:46

Thursday, Sep 13, 2018 at 19:46
Cheers Rumpig

I went into my local 4wd store today and I asked them about a bonnet mount ( and other options ) and they said that with the weight of the flag and pole and the constant rocking and rolling while driving, along with the wind force something would have to give and cause damage or break !

Thanks for the reply

Cheers

Gazz
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FollowupID: 893715

Follow Up By: rumpig - Thursday, Sep 13, 2018 at 21:23

Thursday, Sep 13, 2018 at 21:23
Yeah maybe....i know I had one of those bonnet mounts on an old hilux years ago, the uhf aerial would have weighed heaps more then my sand flag does, but maybe the extra height of the sand flag could cause bigger issues I guess.
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FollowupID: 893723

Reply By: b1b - Thursday, Sep 13, 2018 at 20:26

Thursday, Sep 13, 2018 at 20:26
Guessing that with no other additions to their vehicle that there is no towbar either ? I have seen a few succesfully modified towbars.
bruce
AnswerID: 621196

Follow Up By: Member - Outback Gazz - Thursday, Sep 13, 2018 at 20:32

Thursday, Sep 13, 2018 at 20:32
Cheers b1b

Pretty sure they have a towbar but I can't see making something to fit the towbar and meet sand flag regs for the desert being a quick simple and cheap option - let alone trying to access their canopy for stuff !

Thanks for replying

Cheers

Gazz
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FollowupID: 893716

Follow Up By: Member - peter_mcc - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 14:53

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 14:53
I would have thought a towbar would be fairly easy to fit a sand flag to. The flag I use has a "base" which could go through the tow ball hole (with some large "washers" top and bottom so it didn't fall in the hole). The flag then has a quick release to go onto the base for when they want to open the canopy (assuming they can't just bend the flag out of the way - they are pretty flexible)
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FollowupID: 893739

Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 15:15

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 15:15
I am fairly sure that the regs say they have to be on the front or the roof.
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FollowupID: 893740

Follow Up By: Member - peter_mcc - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 15:21

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 15:21
Looks like they do:

Vehicles
With front bullbar - flag pole attached to the bulbar, with top of the flag a minimum 3.5 metres from the ground.
Without front bullbar - flag pole attached via bracket at the front of the vehicle, with top of the flag a minimum 3.5 metres from the ground; alternatively flag pole attached to the front of the roof rack, with top of the flag a minimum 2 metres from the roof of vehicle.

from https://www.environment.sa.gov.au/parks/find-a-park/Browse_by_region/flinders-ranges-outback/munga-thirri-simpson-desert-conservation-park-regional-reserve#safety
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FollowupID: 893741

Reply By: Michael H9 - Thursday, Sep 13, 2018 at 20:50

Thursday, Sep 13, 2018 at 20:50
Just about their only option is a set of roof racks. Low impact, can be removed easily after the trip, and used for other purposes at any time if required. Roof racks often come in handy.
AnswerID: 621198

Follow Up By: Member - Outback Gazz - Thursday, Sep 13, 2018 at 21:02

Thursday, Sep 13, 2018 at 21:02
Howdy Michael

I did discuss just one roof bar with my local 4wd mob today and to fit a Rhino bar, you need to drill and rivet fittings into the roof channels which my friends don't want to do for a one off trip.

I'm just trying to help them and as good a friends as they are, they sometimes drive me nuts when it comes to stuff like this - but I understand why in this scenario !

Thanks for your reply - appreciated

Cheers

Gazz
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FollowupID: 893720

Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Sep 13, 2018 at 21:12

Thursday, Sep 13, 2018 at 21:12
Maybe they have a decision to make, stay home with an unmodified vehicle, or modify it & enjoy their trip!
I’m pretty sure that once they have done the Simpson Desert they will get bitten by the bug.
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FollowupID: 893722

Follow Up By: Phil B (WA) - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 04:09

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 04:09
Like Shaker said

'stay home with an unmodified vehicle, or modify it & enjoy their trip!'

We threw a tent fly over bushes getting underneath. The camels squatted and poked their heads underneath. The temperature 124ºF. Rudall 30 12 1896

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Follow Up By: Member - Outback Gazz - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 07:00

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 07:00
G'day Phil

They are seasoned travelers and have traveled in and around this country for over 30 years. Their circumstances have changed along with their preferred vehicle of choice - they asked me how they could mount a sand flag and I'm just trying to help them.

Cheers

Gazz
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FollowupID: 893727

Follow Up By: KevinE - Monday, Sep 24, 2018 at 11:27

Monday, Sep 24, 2018 at 11:27
I've never owned a modified 4x4, I've never bought a bullbar, roof rack, light bars, and I've never had one lifted.

I did buy a Ute canopy from a brand name 4x4 shop once & that was a disaster!

The only thing that has ever turned us around out there is a locked gate.

I worked at Jackson oil field in the '80's & all of the whoopies (Toyota utes) out there were stockies then too!

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FollowupID: 893843

Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Monday, Sep 24, 2018 at 12:31

Monday, Sep 24, 2018 at 12:31
Don't know whether it's possible to do the Simpson in your tug without all the mod's Kevin.
Always carried bolt cutters and spare locks. ( work )
Dave.
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FollowupID: 893844

Reply By: Keith B2 - Thursday, Sep 13, 2018 at 23:41

Thursday, Sep 13, 2018 at 23:41
Could you rig up one of these suction cap thingies on the roof and modify it to take the sand flag? May need a little glycerine or petroleum jelly under it for a good seal.
Just a thought.

Suction caps 150 Kg capacity

Keith
AnswerID: 621200

Follow Up By: Member - Outback Gazz - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 07:02

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 07:02
Thanks Keith

Good thinking - will look into it and or something similar

Cheers

Gazz
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FollowupID: 893728

Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 10:21

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 10:21
That MIGHT work ok, but maybe 2 would be better and have lower and upper one on a guard so the stresses are better placed.
Flag pole light conduit, duct taped through handles of the 2 suckers.

I can’t see one on the roof with flag 3.5 (?) from the ground working out too well.
But a bit of brainstorming can do wonders.
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FollowupID: 893733

Follow Up By: Keith B2 - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 14:17

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 14:17
Maybe stick it on the bonnet with the suction thingies so that you can see when or if it falls off.
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FollowupID: 893738

Follow Up By: Ron N - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 21:51

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 21:51
With the flimsy, thin metal they make roofs and bonnets out of nowadays, I'd be wary about even attaching a suction cup! - let alone a pole for a sand flag!

The constant flexing and twisting of the pole as the vehicle rocked through wheel ruts, would more than likely translate into panel buckling and resultant stress cracks somewhere.

The simplest and most efficient suggestion I've seen so far, is the chassis-mounted bracket poking through a bumper cut-out.

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FollowupID: 893746

Follow Up By: rumpig - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 23:45

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 23:45
With the way some authorities are on about fishing rod holders, i can't imagine it would be looked on as a roadworthy addition....even though it likely is the best suggestion structurally wise so far. If it's simply held on with a few bolts, might be something they fit to the vehicle at Birdsville and remove at Mt Dare just to the safe. You'd likely have to be unlucky to get pinged, but stranger things have happened.
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FollowupID: 893748

Reply By: Malcom M - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 06:12

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 06:12
Wondering if they are fully prepared in any other way for the trip.
Guessing they won't fit recovery points so no need for snatch straps... etc
AnswerID: 621201

Follow Up By: Member - Outback Gazz - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 07:05

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 07:05
G'day Malcolm

They have had recovery points fitted and are traveling with a group of 5 other vehicles

Thanks for your reply

Cheers

Gazz
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FollowupID: 893729

Reply By: MUZBRY- Life member(Vic) - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 07:38

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 07:38
Gday Gazz
Is there a frame across the front of the tub, or is that inside the canopy.?
Muzbry
Great place to be Mt Blue Rag 27/12/2012

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AnswerID: 621202

Reply By: Member - sweetwill - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 07:51

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 07:51
Gaza
If they are travelling with four other friends why not let them travel in the middle with the UHF on.
AnswerID: 621203

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 09:51

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 09:51
Why ? Read the rules set out in the desert parks pass ...we just recently had close to a 'head on' by people not having a flag and not using the 'call' areas stipulated .
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FollowupID: 893731

Follow Up By: rumpig - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 09:52

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 09:52
@ Gaza....Because from memory, the rules you get with your permit stipulate that you need a sand flag fitted to the vehicle. Whilst what you suggest is likely a safe enough procedure if common sense is used, explain that to a Ranger out in the middle of the desert....errr we don’t have a sandglass because we didn’t want to mod the vehicle to much...don’t think they’d except that excuse. Atleast they are searching for solutions, something suggested will suit their needs eventually.
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FollowupID: 893732

Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 10:28

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 10:28
Yes new rules apply (for 2 or 3 years now ?) about the sand flags and uhf mandatory.

We did a couple did trips like that where we’d put a couple of vehicles without flags in the middle of the pack, good comms are all you need then, with others and your group.

But alas, most of the Fritz in a Britz brigade made it necessary for parks to put the blanket rule in place.
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Follow Up By: Candace S. - Saturday, Sep 22, 2018 at 15:54

Saturday, Sep 22, 2018 at 15:54
"But alas, most of the Fritz in a Britz brigade made it necessary for parks to put the blanket rule in place."

Funny you mention this. I got interested in this thread because neither Britz nor Apollo put bullbars on their 4WDs like they used to. However, they will allow their vehicles on the Simpson, so I was wondering how people are dealing with the sand flag rule!

Maybe I (or the original OP) should contact one of those hire companies and find out what they advise their clients. :)
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Saturday, Sep 22, 2018 at 19:57

Saturday, Sep 22, 2018 at 19:57
“We did a couple did trips like that where we’d put a couple of vehicles without flags in the middle of the pack, good comms are all you need then, with others and your group.“

.......... and you don’t think you contributed?
Why didn’t they have flags, I’m sure they would have known where they going before they left home?
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FollowupID: 893825

Reply By: CSeaJay - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 09:15

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 09:15
Why cant many of you simply answer the question without questioning the motives or coming up with wild assumptions about their preparedness or reasons? Or shut up?
AnswerID: 621204

Reply By: Robin Miller - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 09:52

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 09:52
Had same issue and I made out of 12mm aluminium a 200mm long plate that extends thru my plastic bumper back to a chassis rail , metal fatigue is an issue so I welded a vertical piece across top of plate.

Worked for many years of tough tracks.

Note I killed 2 birds with 1 stone - instead of using normal sand flag I mounted my HF aerial thru the bracket and put sand flag of top of aerial.



Robin Miller

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AnswerID: 621205

Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 13:42

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 13:42
Not such a good idea if its killing the wildlife.
Dave.
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FollowupID: 893737

Reply By: Michael H9 - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 11:35

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 11:35
A bonnet mount might work with one of those ultra light flags they use on mobility scooters. I had one and they are really light if a bit whippy. If they are travelling in between other cars then it would be ok.
AnswerID: 621208

Reply By: gke - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 13:01

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 13:01
Bend some flat steel bar to a suitable shape and fasten it to the strengthening bars underneath the bonnet so it projects forward enough to drill a mounting hole for the pole.
Safe trip, Graham.
AnswerID: 621213

Reply By: FatGaz - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 15:01

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 15:01
I would go for a number plate mount.
I see these on AWD cars with small LED bars on them.

They are very small, unobtrusive and can be easily removed when the trip is over.

https://www.ebay.com.au/p/Number-License-Plate-Holder-Bracket-Bullbar-Front-Bumper-Light-Bar-Mount-Offroad/849290709?iid=132186364385&chn=ps
AnswerID: 621214

Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 16:19

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 16:19
That's a calf bar, not a bull bar. :-)
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FollowupID: 893743

Reply By: Phil - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 16:20

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 16:20
I know you said they didn't want a nudge bar, but it may be ideal to fit a sand flag to. Reasonably cheap, easy to fit and no modification to the vehicle. Afterwards it can left on the vehicle, good for frontal protection, or removed and sold. It is also an option to mount a bar driving light to. Regards Phil
AnswerID: 621216

Reply By: Member - Outback Gazz - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 19:58

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 19:58
G'day All

I won't reply individually to all posts so -

Thank you everyone for your replies, including the unnecessary ones - some good ideas, I especially like Robin Miller's and if time permits I will help them with that !

And to CSeaJay - I couldn't agree more - but maybe if I posted up the reason why they suddenly had to change vehicles to the wife's runabout at the last minute then people wouldn't jump to conclusions !!

Thanks again

Happy and safe traveling

Gazz
AnswerID: 621219

Reply By: Member - P and JM - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 20:02

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 20:02
Simply lay on your back under the front of the vehicle, find some bolts that go through the chassis and make a bracket up to come out in front of bumper bar and your laughing, that's what I done and it works 100%. Cheers
AnswerID: 621220

Reply By: Bill P - Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 20:58

Friday, Sep 14, 2018 at 20:58
Hi Gazz, I have considered this issue for my own purposes. Im intending to use the threaded recovery eyebolt hole. The recovery eyebolt shaft (on mine) is unfortunately not long enough to attach a bracket.

I will use a bolt with the same thread as the recovery eyebolt (M16x 1.5) and weld a length of 1/2" round rod onto the bolt head. Then i will use a small u-bolt to attach a short piece of flat bar at a right angle onto the round shaft.

Regards
AnswerID: 621221

Reply By: Robyn C8 - Tuesday, Sep 18, 2018 at 20:14

Tuesday, Sep 18, 2018 at 20:14
If he's travelling with someone...follow directly behind them!

Or an earth magnet bolted to the bottom of the flag. It'll stick nice and tight to the roof of the car. But it sounds like he wouldn't do that :D LOL

AnswerID: 621283

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