2H toyota starting issue

Submitted: Monday, Sep 17, 2018 at 18:35
ThreadID: 137260 Views:1506 Replies:9 FollowUps:11
Hi.

My dad has a Toyota Coaster bus, around 1988 model possibly, it has the non turbo 6 cylinder diesel in it and I think it's the 2H.

He has an issue which he had a few years ago which seems to be glow plugs, he's waiting on a new set.

The strange problem is it turns over great but won't start, oddly though if he can get a push it will start within 2-3 metres.

Does anyone have an idea why this happens, he is south and its bloody cold down there at the moment so that probably doesn't help.

Thanks in advance.
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Reply By: Member - William B (The Shire) - Monday, Sep 17, 2018 at 18:47

Monday, Sep 17, 2018 at 18:47
Hi Nutta,

You say it turns over great, but it could be it sounds like it turns over well but the voltage maybe dropping down and not giving the glow plugs enough voltage to work properly.
That could be why it clutch starts OK.

I would be testing the battery and finding out what it does under load, even using a volt meter on the battery while you crank it.

William
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AnswerID: 621265

Follow Up By: Nutta - Monday, Sep 17, 2018 at 18:55

Monday, Sep 17, 2018 at 18:55
Thanks William, I'll pass that onto dad, hopefully it is the problem.
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Reply By: Bob Y. - Qld - Monday, Sep 17, 2018 at 19:26

Monday, Sep 17, 2018 at 19:26
Last time I drove/worked on a 2H, I didn't have grey hair!

Your description sounds much like a glow plug problem, Nutta, especially in cold conditions. The 2H also had an EDIC motor on driver's side, which controlled over-injection for cold starts, normal running and engine off. Suggest you get your Dad to check that the linkage is moving correctly, full forward for starting, then back a few degrees for normal.





Also keep in mind with cold weather, diesel gets very waxy, but this wouldn't be the problem if it roll starts easily.

Bob

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Can't remember most of it.

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Follow Up By: Nutta - Monday, Sep 17, 2018 at 19:38

Monday, Sep 17, 2018 at 19:38
Thanks Bob.

Dads hopeless with stuff like this and on top of that doesn't know how to use his phone so sending this to him is hopeless, I will try to explain it to him over the phone though, I'm pretty sure he said he's going to try and find a mechanic tomorrow.

Thanks again.
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Reply By: Member - Bigred13 - Monday, Sep 17, 2018 at 19:44

Monday, Sep 17, 2018 at 19:44
Hi Nutta , another thing to check is the glow plug connection bar that carries the voltage to them ,they sometimes corrode and can break thus not allowing power to pass through all glow plugs .I think Toyota was supplying 8 Volt glow plugs too.
AnswerID: 621270

Follow Up By: maurice b - Monday, Sep 17, 2018 at 19:57

Monday, Sep 17, 2018 at 19:57
That would be very correct Big Red and its usually the connector that becomes corroded where the 10mm nut connects the glow plug bar to power at the windscreen end of the motor
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FollowupID: 893790

Follow Up By: Nutta - Monday, Sep 17, 2018 at 20:51

Monday, Sep 17, 2018 at 20:51
Thanks Bigred, I'll get him to have a look at that also, cheers.
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Reply By: RMD - Monday, Sep 17, 2018 at 22:54

Monday, Sep 17, 2018 at 22:54
Nutta
The problem can be the glowplug supply connection as mentioned above but can also be the relay or it's wiring which either, isn't supplying current to switch on the glowplug relay or the glow plug timer. The timer is temp controlled and the temp sender on the side of the engine may have it's connection disconnected or dirty.
Best to find and check the connections to it too.

The reason it starts with a bump start is, the engine is then being turned over much faster than with the starter motor and the heat of 22 : 1 compression ratio hasn't had as much time to lose it's heat into the walls of combustion chamber, so effectively it is much hotter than cranking and so fires the injected fuel. Same with any diesel.
AnswerID: 621275

Follow Up By: Nutta - Tuesday, Sep 18, 2018 at 07:06

Tuesday, Sep 18, 2018 at 07:06
Thanks RMD.
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Reply By: mountainman - Tuesday, Sep 18, 2018 at 21:17

Tuesday, Sep 18, 2018 at 21:17
Ive had a 2h for nearly 20years

Glow plugs
Buzz bar
And edic issues

Glow plugs will be hard starting
But will eventually start depending on good compression and weather

Buzz bar issue will be very very hard starting
Will not start !!
And blow white smoke

Edic issue will cause motor to wind over and wind over but wont start

AnswerID: 621284

Follow Up By: Nutta - Wednesday, Sep 19, 2018 at 06:38

Wednesday, Sep 19, 2018 at 06:38
It does wind over like low compression, I wonder if its getting low?

Never blows white smoke though.

Thanks for your input.
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FollowupID: 893796

Reply By: Member - DOZER - Wednesday, Sep 19, 2018 at 10:21

Wednesday, Sep 19, 2018 at 10:21
from what you have conveyed, there is an electrical problem with the glow plugs. The system works like this, there is a ecu that controls the relays, it gets info from a water temperature sensor and the alternator running (12v) or stopped (earth). I would start by taking the bus bar off the glow plugs and metering each plug for resistance. They should all be the same resistance. If that is the case, check for voltage on the bus wire when ignition on and motor cold, volts= the ecu is doing its job, change all plugs, make sure you get the right ones for your coaster, there are different plugs for different market 2h's. If theres no volts, check the water sensor is sending correct signal to ecu, and regulator on alt is working /charging/etc properly
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AnswerID: 621288

Follow Up By: Nutta - Wednesday, Sep 19, 2018 at 16:27

Wednesday, Sep 19, 2018 at 16:27
Thanks Dozer, will pass it on.
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Reply By: Ron N - Wednesday, Sep 19, 2018 at 23:18

Wednesday, Sep 19, 2018 at 23:18
Another thing to look at, besides all the good suggestions above - Diesels need a certain cranking speed to fire up (usually a minimum of around 200RPM), particularly when cold.

If the battery is low on voltage and in poor condition, it may not be supplying enough amperage to reach an adequate starter cranking speed.
Cold oil and a dead cold engine assist in slowing the starter cranking speed.

Another thing to check is starter cable condition and size.
Battery cable connections must be clean, and earth straps checked for cleanliness and tightness, too.

Not sure about the 2H Toyota, but I own an Isuzu truck that had aluminium starter cables.
The aluminium started to fracture the wiring strands with age and flexing, and this reduced the current flow to the starter, resulting in hard starting.

The cure was replacement with a larger diameter copper cable with finer wire strands, thereby increasing the current-carrying capacity.
When the copper cable was fitted, the engine snapped into life, even on a cold morning, with less than 3 secs starter cranking time.

I've had experiences with trying to start a diesel fitted with 24V electrical system, with just a big single 12V battery.
The engine sounded like it was spinning fast enough - but it wouldn't fire up, even on a warm day - due to the fact it wasn't reaching the critical diesel cranking speed.

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 621296

Reply By: GerryG - Thursday, Sep 20, 2018 at 18:44

Thursday, Sep 20, 2018 at 18:44
My solution might seem primitive but I've had two Coasters (1988 and 1992) have glow plug problems. To test I've hooked up 24 volts straight to the glow plug bar after disconnecting it from the "computer board" that seems to control the voltage to the plugs.(Coasters run on a 24 Volt system)
Give it about 5 to 8 seconds then see if it will start. In both the above cases it did so I replaced the "computer board" with a $3.50 horn button! So now I decide how cold the engine is and how cold the outside temp. is and give the horn button what I think is a decent press. (max of around 10 seconds).
Been doing it for years on both vehicles.
AnswerID: 621309

Follow Up By: RMD - Thursday, Sep 20, 2018 at 20:18

Thursday, Sep 20, 2018 at 20:18
Gerry G
You are a smart man. Good on you for diagnosis and positive thinking. Amazing thing the human brain.
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FollowupID: 893811

Follow Up By: qldcamper - Monday, Sep 24, 2018 at 08:06

Monday, Sep 24, 2018 at 08:06
That system works well and is fairly common practice, only down side is that there is no after glow which leads to rough idling for a few seconds when cold and in extreme cold could require a restart, but certainly a more viable option in investing in expensive new parts on an aging vehicle.
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FollowupID: 893837

Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Monday, Sep 24, 2018 at 09:27

Monday, Sep 24, 2018 at 09:27
.
Yes, I put a pushbutton on the dash of the Troopy when the glow controller failed.
However, it seems to be never needed where I travel.
May be of use in the Alpine region....?
Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: Nutta - Wednesday, Sep 26, 2018 at 19:27

Wednesday, Sep 26, 2018 at 19:27
Thanks for all the replies, basically was injectors although he ended up replacing battery and starter also, $1250 later! I did offer to pick it up for him being my dad but a determined old bugger wouldn’t accept!
Cheers Wayne
AnswerID: 621384

Follow Up By: Nutta - Friday, Oct 05, 2018 at 07:19

Friday, Oct 05, 2018 at 07:19
For some silly reason I wrote injectors!
I meant glow plugs!!
Thanks again everyone.
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FollowupID: 893973

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