Unbelievable --- Another Desert Rescue

Submitted: Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 14:20
ThreadID: 137480 Views:4265 Replies:17 FollowUps:64
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Read the ABC Report yourself here.

It is almost beyond belief that another person, a lone travelling female, would venture into remote desert regions without the basic ability to manage recovery if things go wrong. I can only assume that some people live in a bubble without ever perceiving that travellers can die in these circumstances.
No ability to recover a bogged vehicle and I wonder if she even had the means and ability to change a flat tyre.
No adequate communications, a mere 500ml of water!

The report stated that she "took a wrong turn" and became bogged. Where on earth was she? If travelling to the Blackstone community, it is right on the Gunbarrel Hwy. Look at the aerial view below, if you weren't careful you could drive into the Community Store building! Perhaps somehow she turned-off into a minor track before reaching Blackstone? We shall probably never know.
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Reply By: Member - Wildmax - Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 17:22

Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 17:22
There are some idiots out there for sure.....though I guess at least she had the sense to stay with her vehicle, and had advised her daughter where she was travelling.
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Reply By: Greg J1 - Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 18:16

Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 18:16
The vehicle and tyres are enough to suggest she had no idea what she was getting herself into.

Sort of hard to feel any sympathy for her.

Cheers Greg.
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Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Saturday, Nov 24, 2018 at 08:06

Saturday, Nov 24, 2018 at 08:06

People have been (successfully) travelling the outback in all kinds of vehicles since Henry Ford rolled a Model T off the production line...

Vehicle type and set-up is not a good indicator of preparedness for outback travel.

And before Henry had a motorised vehicle people were roaming the outback in bullock and camel drays.

I think we've got soft these days thinking a vehicle has to be "tricked-up" to the hilt before venturing beyond the bitumen.

For some, it might help, for others, aka Tom Kruse, he just got on with what he had, quite successfully.

Cheers, Baz - The Landy

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Follow Up By: Greg J1 - Saturday, Nov 24, 2018 at 08:25

Saturday, Nov 24, 2018 at 08:25
That’s fine baz,

I’ve been driving most of my life in the Bush in basically stock standard cruiser utes

Many would say that they are not much different to a horse and dray !!

I know you don’t have to have a tricked up 4WD to travel outback but it seems in these days of 4WD magazines and tv shows most city people can’t leave home without the 4by being overloaded with accessories.

My point is that vehicle doesn’t look like something I would trust to take out there. And the tyres in the picture look like street tyres.

Would you drive the gunbarrell on street tyres ?

Cheers Greg.

Edit. And in every one of our work utes and my own travelling ute there is a sat phone and plb.
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Saturday, Nov 24, 2018 at 08:41

Saturday, Nov 24, 2018 at 08:41
Hi Baz

As for brining Tom Kruse into the scenario is completely unfair, as he knew what he was doing and was no fool. He lived in the Outback, with Marree his home and knew the consequences of poor planning......death.

Tom was a veteran Bushman that could turn a piece of Mulga into truck parts.

Tom was never stuck and could always get himself out of all situations.

The vehicle that you posted was his famous Badger, which was a 6 wheel drive that used the toughest of tyres that were available at that time ( not city tyres )

Was fully prepared for serious delays.

Carried more than 600 of water for survival situation.

I can go go, but Tom Kruse is the last person to be included in a situation like this.


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Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Saturday, Nov 24, 2018 at 09:16

Saturday, Nov 24, 2018 at 09:16
I think my point is well made - vehicle type or set-up is not necessarily an indication of preparedness for Outback travel.

Cheers, Baz
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Follow Up By: Greg J1 - Saturday, Nov 24, 2018 at 09:19

Saturday, Nov 24, 2018 at 09:19
Yeah I guess she proved that
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Saturday, Nov 24, 2018 at 09:56

Saturday, Nov 24, 2018 at 09:56
Hi Again Baz

You are so correct, it showed that it was not her vehicle, but her total lack of understanding and being prepared for the hostile environment that she was travelling.

If she was prepared, she would have had at a minimum a PLB and around 20 litres of water.


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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Saturday, Nov 24, 2018 at 10:04

Saturday, Nov 24, 2018 at 10:04
So what's going on when I'm driving along out there and get passed by locals in Commodores and Falcons? Everyone's making assumptions based on a news article and photograph. We should have the tar and feathers ready. :-)
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Nov 24, 2018 at 11:45

Saturday, Nov 24, 2018 at 11:45
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Don't come the Raw Prawn Baz.

What's with the comms and rubber in your pics below?

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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Saturday, Nov 24, 2018 at 11:48

Saturday, Nov 24, 2018 at 11:48
I think the difference is Michael that the vehicles are being driven by men.
( just thought I would throw that in there)

As a prospector I've always assumed that if you came across a side track you turned down it and kept going until a little voice in your head said, " don't think this is such a good idea."
Dave.
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Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Sunday, Nov 25, 2018 at 08:39

Sunday, Nov 25, 2018 at 08:39
Alan

I’m not sure of the point you are trying to make.

So I’ll take a guess and highlight that I have a vehicle set-up for remote travel, including HF Radio/Sat-phone, PLB. And as you’ve highlighted, tyres to match the travel we do.

That should come as no surprise to someone who does similar travel, and we have spent the best part of 25 years refining our style of travel – it is where our interest lies.

Many travel the Outback (successfully) with vehicles set-up in a stock standard state, and they’ve been doing that for over 80 years, ever since the Model T ran off the production line.

(Note to Stephen, I have the utmost admiration for Tom Kruse – but many looking at his vehicle through today’s eyes may form the same opinion that was posted above “looking at the vehicle you can see they were ill-prepared” – Tom Kruse was extremely well prepared, which is the point I was making).

Tying my comments back to this thread, much has been made about how ill prepared this lady was, and I am betting if she was responding in this forum today, she would acknowledge, with the benefit of hindsight, that she was ill prepared for outback travel.

And it is worth noting again, she did survive and she took some critical actions that enhanced her survival chances.

The premise of this whole thread appears to have been to highlight that people are travelling remote outback areas blissfully unaware of the risks they are taking without the appropriate preparation – essentially, they don’t know, what they don’t know.

Now I won’t speak for others, but if I was someone who had no idea about outback travel and came across this thread, I’d be reluctant to field questions given the attitude permeating – you wouldn’t be thinking this is an approachable bunch of people, that is for sure. Which is a pity, as the EO Community has a knowledge bank of information where one can ask a question and get well thought out feedback based on hands-on experience.

Michelle from EO, in her post below, has succinctly summed it up with her comment, one that I can’t improve on…

“I find it most disappointing to read this post and see a strongly worded tones of disdain even contempt for other people that may have less experience than "ourselves" rather than looking at ways to be a part of the solution”.

If there is a genuine desire to help prevent this type of situation develop it is worth reading Michelle’s comment a couple of times – “looking at ways to be a part of the solution”.

And I’ve no intention to cross-swords on this issue further as it is an important topic that the EO Community could take a lead on simply by posting “positive” reinforcement of the actions people should take prior to, and during excursions into the Australian Outback.

That positive starting point, in this instance, could be that she took actions that enhanced survival – not a bad place to start a discussion that could lead to imparting knowledge that may have prevented this person facing a life and death situation simply because she didn't take some simple precautions and actions prior to setting out…

Cheers, Baz – The Landy
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Sunday, Nov 25, 2018 at 09:07

Sunday, Nov 25, 2018 at 09:07
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Baz, I simply was amused that you referenced Tom Kruse as a paragon of competence whist you travel in a vehicle tricked-up to the armpits in communications and worthiness.

Tom's vehicle had little extra features but Tom himself had enormous ability to drive, recover and successfully continue.

Your offering simply did not relate to the subject. It seemed just another attempt to shift focus from "Why?" to "Golly Gee..... look what she achieved".

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Follow Up By: Paul T2 - Sunday, Nov 25, 2018 at 10:24

Sunday, Nov 25, 2018 at 10:24
Baz, I think the word you may have been looking for is, judgemental.
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Follow Up By: HKB Electronics - Sunday, Nov 25, 2018 at 10:51

Sunday, Nov 25, 2018 at 10:51
Baz, agree with you totally. Would it have been nice if this post had of been about what she should have done and carried to prevent the situation occurring rather than a scathing post about her stupidity.

“I find it most disappointing to read this post and see a strongly worded tones of disdain even contempt for other people that may have less experience than "ourselves" rather than looking at ways to be a part of the solution”.

Seems there is a lot of this on this form these days.
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Follow Up By: Peter_n_Margaret - Tuesday, Nov 27, 2018 at 18:19

Tuesday, Nov 27, 2018 at 18:19
"The vehicle and tyres are enough to suggest she had no idea what she was getting herself into"

During Easter 1970, I drove a Mini from Coward Springs west to Billa Kalina on the southern side of the Margaret River with 3 people on board. We picked the route from a fuel company map of "outback South Australia". There was a track marked, but for at least 1/3rd of that route we had had no tracks at all and we navigated by compass.

On the way north, we called into the Marree police station to tell the local copper where we were going. His response was "absolutely NO", but while we discussed the possibilities, his wife draped herself across his desk and convinced him to let us go because she had never been into that country and wanted to come and find us.
So we went.

The arrangement was that if we had not reported into Kingoonya police station within 4 days, they would come out and look for us.
We had no communications of any sort, but had reasonable supplies of food, water, spares and tools.

Exactly 25 years later, the same 3 of us tried to repeat that route in the reverse direction in a 4WD and failed. Even now there are not many tracks in some of that area.

Were we stupid? Maybe, but lived to talk about it and we learned a great deal.
Not many pics survived unfortunately....







Cheers,
Peter
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Follow Up By: Candace S. - Friday, Nov 30, 2018 at 12:45

Friday, Nov 30, 2018 at 12:45
Peter--thanks for that account and the pics!

Yes, Coward Springs looks a lot different these days. :)
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Reply By: IvanTheTerrible - Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 18:47

Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 18:47
I think you should get off your high horse Allan. You have thrown a lot of assumption in there which dont belong in a constructive discussion. Try sticking to the facts and not try and blow things up bigger they may actually be.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 19:25

Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 19:25
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Hey, steady on there Ivan. Geez your'e well named mate. lol

Where's the assumptions?
I said "No ability to recover a bogged vehicle" and clearly she did not.
I said that she had "No adequate communications" and clearly she did not.
I said she had "a mere 500ml of water".... quoting her words.
I said that she "took the wrong turn"... quoting the ABC report.
I said "I wonder if she had the ability to change a flat". No assumption, merely a reflection.
And I simply wondered what track she may have been on.

Just remember Ivan you were a tsar, not a star. lol
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Allan

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Follow Up By: Greg J1 - Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 19:44

Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 19:44
Ivan. This woman admitted she drank her own urine and you are attacking Alan for bringing this to our attention.


Think about it.

Cheers Greg
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 19:47

Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 19:47
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I didn't mention the urine Greg. No way was I going there. God knows what Ivan would have made of that. lol

But I do sometimes wonder what Ivan is on! lol
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Follow Up By: IvanTheTerrible - Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 19:47

Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 19:47
"I wonder if she could even change a tyre" That is an assumption! You weren't there and I also believe that was aimed at the fact that the person in the story is female! She stayed with the car, that was the most important thing but you never mentioned that. She did everything right to survive.
Now you can sit here and argue the fine points of this which is what I believe you set out to do by startin this thread but you'll be doing it without me. I've had my say. Moving on.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 19:50

Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 19:50
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'Bye Ivan... we will miss you, that's for sure. lol
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Follow Up By: Greg J1 - Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 19:57

Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 19:57
Am I the only one who checked out her hair to see if she was blonde ??

Cowering in the corner now !!!

Been in your camp for a while now Allan, wondering what Ivan was on. The first down the canning for the year. Yeah right. The northern bit .

Cheers Greg.
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Follow Up By: Malcom M - Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 10:24

Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 10:24
Its sad the way people leap on board and make it a personal attack on the posters.
Sort of like kindergarten.
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 10:30

Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 10:30
or the old aged Retirement Home
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Reply By: equinox - Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 19:49

Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 19:49
Whatever the number of deaths is at the end of the year I sincerely hope that no regulation is put in place as a consequence.

The government here in WA is succuming to pressure to try and do something about the number of shark attacks - with outback deaths similar in number to shark attack deaths there is no certainty that regulation will not be a considered measure.

Regards
Alan
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Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 08:15

Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 08:15
7 deaths in outback. W.A. answer will be to put drum lines in to stop all outback travellers.
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Reply By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 20:01

Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 20:01
Hi Allan

You can say she had...SFB

You can guess the first word, but the other two are For Brains.....

A complete joke on how people travel remote areas in temperate extremely high and no safety back up and in a vehicle that it totally unprepared for such an area.

She just complained on our local ABC News that there was no phone coverage.

Come on, why do we let those so unprepared people out into the Outback whey they belong in the Big Smoke.

Just my thoughts.



Cheers



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Follow Up By: Member - Bigfish - Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 08:12

Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 08:12
Its the age of entitlement Stephen. Younger people today have the assumption that the world revolves around them and that their needs should be met first. No phone coverage for her...I certainly hope Telstra are out to the site of her bogging and investing another million dollars on a remote radio/mobile tower!!! Some people should never be allowed to leave the 80kph de restriction zone!
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 14:34

Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 14:34
Hi Bigfish

Do not get me wrong, I feel very sorry for the young lady and at least she lived to tell her story.

On the news last night, they also showed the track that she was on....and that exactly what it was, a narrow, overgrown sandy track.

For anyone that has been fortunate enough to travel out through those aboriginal communities will be aware that, yes there are hundreds of two wheel tracks running in all directions, but the main roads that connect the communities, are quite wide and are intended for year round travel, with the other xception of it being very wet.

How and why she diverted from the main Jamieson to Blackstone Road I can not understand, and then to venture up a 2 wheel, overgrown track makes the mind boggle.

As I always rave on here on the EO forum, the most reliable and best safety insurance piece of equipment is a PLB which are as cheap as $250, and she would have been found within hours....not the 6 days that could have quite easy cost her life.

As I say, some people just have SFB.



Cheers



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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 15:55

Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 15:55
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Thank you Stephen,

I have not seen any news reports since the original that I quoted, but Michelle (below) says her news reported "She became bogged on the short 40km drive between Jamieson to Blackstone." Now that is The Gunbarrel and was you say, it is a main road and wide, not "a narrow, overgrown sandy track" as your news revealed.

As usual, these media news reports seem to be less than concise and uniform. And it gets us arguing the odds!

Another thing that confuses me is if she was travelling between Mt Gambier and Blackstone I would have expected her to be approaching from the east, not from the west via Jamieson. Who knows? And will we ever know for sure anyway.

And it matters not at all if this person was male or female.... the action was foolish and almost produced a fatality.

Michelle says below that "I feel this woman showed significant sense in how she found ways to survive those 6 days". Maybe so, but if she had shown "significant sense" in her preparation for this trip the incident would not have happened.
And that is the reason that I raised the post..... to hopefully increase awareness of the perils in outback travel and the need for adequate communications.

I made no commentary of Ms Phillips personage, only of her preparedness and competence for remote travel. But of course the "Warriors" find cause to attack! I guess they feel if they can subjugate another 'contributor' then their prestige is elevated.

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Allan

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Follow Up By: equinox - Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 19:12

Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 19:12
Hey guys,

According to report
https://thewest.com.au/news/kalgoorlie-miner/lost-traveller-found-after-six-days-ng-b88985792z

She was working at Jamieson heading for Blackstone and beyond but sounds like she may have head south instead of east.
Looking for adventure.
In whatever comes our way.

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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 22:24

Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 22:24
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Aha, so that explains it a bit further.
Ms Phillips was not a "Mt Gambier woman" as the ABC would have it. She was in fact a short term resident of Jamieson.
Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: skulldug - Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 20:06

Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 20:06
I think you should get off your high horse Allan.

The lady made a mistake. At least she didn’t die and at least she hasn’t made an obnoxious ass of herself as you have.

Skull
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Follow Up By: Greg J1 - Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 20:17

Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 20:17
Got a great suggestion for sir Kev to get more people to the next national gathering.

Kev, See if you book Fred’s boxing tent. I’m sure you will the crowd to attend.

Cheers Greg
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 20:53

Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 20:53
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Ivan, stop logging in with a second identity.
You said you were "moving on". Please do so.

And note that I did not call the lady any insolent names!




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Allan

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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 12:50

Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 12:50
skulldug,

She very nearly killed herself, that's how much of an ass of herself she made.

Macca.
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Reply By: Michael H9 - Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 20:14

Wednesday, Nov 21, 2018 at 20:14
Fair dinkum, the tone of a lot of the replies might put a person off posting. You could have copped a hiding for saying "lone travelling female" too....lol!
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Follow Up By: Joe Fury - Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 01:58

Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 01:58
G'day Michael H9

There is great deal to be learned in reading some of the comments or replies to Allan B's original thread.

Yes a woman made a fundamental mistake, a wrong turn apparently, yes she appeared to be well out of her depth in regards to travelling in a fairly remote part of Australia, but to her credit she also made some fundamentally important ~ life saving ~ decisions and as unbelievable as the actual story is she SURVIVED.

Conversely just two weeks ago the saga ended tragically for an experienced bushman, who was a local in the Coolgardie gold fields area.

Mr Ronald Potter was last seen on November the 6th, his bogged vehicle was found on Monday 12th ~ the day after the official Police search began.

The body of Mr Potter was located on Tuesday 13th of November.

Mr Potter was heading toward his mining lease/shack on foot, he had left water bottles in his bogged vehicle, he laid tape as a direction aid for searchers from his vehicle leading east toward his mining camp.

Mr Potter was 86 and had been missing for a week.

Draw from that what ever armchair analysis you like, his age, leaving water behind in the vehicle he should not have left, or possibly his self belief in his skills as a local and a bushman, prospector ~ you name it.

In saying YOU ~ I do not imply the you is Michael H9 the You is the reader.

But the reality is that he broke a fundamental rule and he is now DEAD.

As Alan ~ equinox, says once the counting is done there might be another knee jerk reaction made by a government official who possibly might think Kings Park in the City of Perth is a wild and remote part of Western Australia.

To my knowledge the perishers count since November 1/11/2018 ~ is already 7 deaths in the outback.

Safe travels : Joe Fury
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Reply By: Phil B (WA) - Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 08:27

Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 08:27
Lets step back a bit folks.

Yes a woman nearly went to the pearly gates and it sounds like she stuffed up.

But remember this is a media report and journalists tend to have a need to emphasise certain information and de-emphasise other info – so they can make the story ‘catchy’. If facts aren’t known Mr Google ‘helps’ them.

The journalist's report, has to go to the editors who need to fit it into ‘x’ number of words etc. They seek sensation (even ABC) and to get people riled up. Has this happened here?

I’ll bet the police report into this matter will look completely different to the journalist's report.

Please folks so slow down a bit, don’t accept all of the ‘facts’ from journalists.
Let’s just be grateful she survived.

Off my soap box now - have a great day.



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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 17:24

Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 17:24
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Your'e right Phil. There are omissions and errors in virtually all journalistic reports, yes even the ABC. But it is rather futile to totally discount all reports simply because of that. Unless we have reliable alternate knowledge we must consider a report on its face value.

So often I read of an event and hope to later see a report of its outcome, but never do. It is no longer 'current news' unless the outcome is sensational.
In this current matter, I cannot imagine that there will even be a "police report", certainly not a published one. Fortunately, there will not be a Coroners Report!

So we are left to discuss what is reported and to even speculate. Such discussion remains here on the EO Forum and has no affect on the persons discussed. If one's behaviour is such as to be newsworthy then it is not unreasonable that it will be discussed by others.

Having said that, I am mindful that every news item where I have had first-hand knowledge of the event, I perceived material inaccuracies in the report.
Even so. I have not ceased to read the news and maybe comment and I do not intend to live under a bell jar.
Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: ExplorOz Team - Michelle - Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 12:04

Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 12:04
Whilst our Forum is certainly a place for us to discuss issues of relevance to our travels and voice opinions and share ideas, I find it most disappointing to read this post and see a strongly worded tones of disdain even contempt for other people that may have less experience than "ourselves" rather than looking at ways to be a part of the solution.

I watched this woman's interview on tv last night and my first thought was wondering if she was travelling to a job out there. She had safely travelled from Mt Gambier to Jamieson. She became bogged on the short 40km drive between Jamieson to Blackstone. She had her cat and dog with her. Blackstone has a community store, a community school, library, health services, workshop, aged care, woman's centre etc - lots of scope for work for interested people. This was no tourist trip.

So if that's the case, should someone with local knowledge have been responsible for ensuring she was well informed and prepared for her trip out there?

Let's not use these events to beat our chests about how good we are and how stupid everyone else is. Let's just practise tolerance and acceptance that errors happen but there is often a lot more to a story than first appears.

I feel this woman showed significant sense in how she found ways to survive those 6 days. Sure, she wasn't prepared to recovery her vehicle but she showed the most important quality of outback survival - STOP THINK OBSERVE PLAN. She accepted her mistakes and the situation and didn't panic. She made small plans that ensured her survival and most importantly she STAYED WITH THE CAR. She focused on the basic needs of human survival, water, shelter and food. And as a result she survived. (so did the cat and dog) Good for her!

This discussion should be about those very survival instincts. You can be as prepared as you like but if your mind starts to panic and you make critical mistakes then you are dead.
Michelle Martin
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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 13:20

Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 13:20
You make some very good points here Michelle. However, I cannot understand how she could make a wrong turn. The road from Jamieson to Blackstone does not appear to have any side tracks. I drove this road to Surveyor Generals Corner last year, you can drive it in a two wheel drive vehicle, as many of the locals do, and is well travelled. If there had been recent rain before she travelled, & she was on the Warburton to Blackstone road, then that may have contributed to her becoming bogged.

The only "wrong turn" I could think of is if she deviated from the Warburton to Blackstone road at Jamieson itself. The road is signposted, or at least it was last year, so this is should not happen. The Warburton to Blackstone road forms part of The Gunbarrel Highway, she may have mistakenly turned left at Jamieson where the Warburton to Blackstone road meets The Gunbarrel Highway on the west side of Jamieson. From this point on, The Gunbarrel Highway heads north west to join the Great Central Road at the Palytjikata. This is only a track, so might explain how she got lost, and then bogged, in any case, she was ill prepared, and lucky to be found.

Macca.
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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 13:40

Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 13:40
If your that concerned about the wrong turn Macca you might want to try and contact her personally for an explanation. :)
Dave.
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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 15:38

Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 15:38
Hi David M,

Not concerned, just can’t understand why anyone would turn off a well maintained, well travelled road.

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Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Friday, Nov 23, 2018 at 09:59

Friday, Nov 23, 2018 at 09:59
Michelle,

You have succinctly summed this thread up perfectly with your thoughts.

The rush to criticise by some has blinded them to an important fact - she survived (thankfully).

And whilst there might be an element of luck in these situations, this person made some cool headed and important decisions that greatly helped her chances of survival - first, foremost, and critically she stayed with her vehicle.

And whilst in the cold light of day there might be a time she can reflect on how she may have been better prepared, there is risk associated with any endeavour or adventure.

Survival has little to do with the ‘how’ you ended up in the predicament, but more to do with recognising the situation you are in, and importantly, the actions you take from that point of time, along with a will to survive.

This person appeared to approach the predicament with a cool head and a thought process that enhanced chances of survival.

Perhaps rather than implying she had ‘SFB’ as suggested elsewhere, maybe others could learn something about the mindset she employed to ‘survive’.

If contributors to this forum wanted to do something positive about advocating for safe Outback and remote travel than perhaps focus should start on the positives in this instance.

She survived - what can more experienced travellers learn from her survival plan and how can we impart that knowledge on others.

And whilst I am advocate of understanding the risks of remote area travel and looking at ways to mitigate, both of which start with a good plan devised in the living room at home before heading out the front gate. I think it is important to restate that it is irrelevant of how you arrived at the life-threatening event (once you are at that point) but your survival will depend on what actions you take from that moment onwards...

It might be obvious to some of the more experienced amongst the EO community that this person made some fundamental planning errors, but bravo to her for taking some important considerations that aided her survival.

She displayed qualities of the sort of person I like to travel with - someone with a cool head and considered approach to problems when the best laid plan goes awry...!

My two bob’s worth anyway...

Cheers Baz - The Landy
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it can be done shouldn’t
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Follow Up By: Gramps - Friday, Nov 23, 2018 at 10:47

Friday, Nov 23, 2018 at 10:47
Baz,

Thanks for one of the few worthwhile comments on this incident.

Regards
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Friday, Nov 23, 2018 at 11:22

Friday, Nov 23, 2018 at 11:22
.
Baz,

There is Plan 'A' and Plan 'B'.

Now THAT is succinct.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Friday, Nov 23, 2018 at 14:49

Friday, Nov 23, 2018 at 14:49
Hi Baz

I still stick with my comments, as she was totally unprepared for the environment that she was travelling in, and that is fact.

With temperatures out that way at this time of the year, the first question to ask is why did she not carry more water.....that is a golden a Rule No 1. We all know that in a situation like like, you can survive for weeks without food....but no water and it is fatal.

Yes she is very lucky to survive, but people like that show total lack of respect and understanding of where they are travellingw and then to think that her mobile phone did not work to get her out of trouble.......to me to does show SFB.

The sad fact of human nature is no matter how hard we try to emphasise the importance of being fully prepared for such situations, there will always be people out there that will travel in the way that she did.

Like we all say, she is so very lucky to survive, but unfortunately this will not be the last time we hear of such situations.


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Follow Up By: tim_c - Friday, Nov 30, 2018 at 10:04

Friday, Nov 30, 2018 at 10:04
Thanks for your comments Michelle and Baz - I'm glad I'm not the only one who is concerned that some of these threads about people becoming unstuck (or stuck) in the outback could be seen as a put-down to "those with less experience".

I previously tried to encourage some caution in this regard in my follow-up (ref. 894860) to a recent thread (ref. 137426), though it seems the friendly word-of-advice was lost (OP seems to have missed the point, apparently being more concerned about the grammar used in a single phrase). So here we are again, with another thread seeming to put-down people for their lack of knowledge and lack of experience which, ironically, may quite likely be discouraging others from asking questions on a public forum filled with the knowledge they might one day need to survive - if only they didn't have to fear being put-down for asking what others may think is a silly question.

To paraphrase what I said previously, if threads such as this one serve as a warning that prompts just one person to be more cautious and better prepared, it would be all worthwhile - it just might save a life one day. But on the other hand, if the thread contains comments that are seen to put-down "those with less experience and less knowledge" to the extent that someone is discouraged from asking a question and getting some advice that could save their life, then I fear this thread actually becomes a part of the problem.

Heed the warnings, yes, but Michelle summed up the tone of much of this thread quite well: "Let's not use these events to beat our chests about how good we are and how stupid everyone else is."
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Reply By: Member - nickb "boab" - Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 16:11

Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 16:11
How is it that wherever /whoever she was going would let her get in to this situation ?? ....I think Allan is very much on the money with his opening comment .
putting aside the banter since ....

That is the crux of the matter ..... where is duty of care here ??
you would think !!

she was so unprepared beggars belief ....

Cheers Nick b
P.S your all entitled to my wisdom.......
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Follow Up By: Member - nickb "boab" - Friday, Nov 23, 2018 at 06:19

Friday, Nov 23, 2018 at 06:19
Most of the time we hear how the people leave their vehicle and get into trouble but in this situation the person doesn't leave the vehicle why is this ?? if she had no remote experience or knowledge ....
But didn't take any supplies/ precautions for the Outback travel from what people have said and news report . (600ml of water ) ? If that is correct .
It's a bit bizarre how the no phone reception has been mentioned in what is a very remote part of the outback ! . A cynic may think there's a message in that .
This is not a criticism but simply an observation on what is another unfortunate event .
Cheers Nick b
P.S your all entitled to my wisdom.......
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Follow Up By: Member - shane r1 - Friday, Nov 23, 2018 at 09:41

Friday, Nov 23, 2018 at 09:41
I believe “Duty of care” should always be every individual’s first and foremost responsibility.
Society can’t protect everyone from themselves.
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Follow Up By: Member - nickb "boab" - Friday, Nov 23, 2018 at 12:18

Friday, Nov 23, 2018 at 12:18
Yes I agree Shane but as we have seen here and elsewhere people don't always have the for thought of what might/ could happen.

We would think that even if they didn't consider themselves they may have thought about there animals in what is a very harsh location & heading into summer , they have obviously travelled some distance with before lobbying in the middle of WA .
The more I think of this story the more I think there may be more to it ..
Cheers Nick b
P.S your all entitled to my wisdom.......
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Reply By: braincell - Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 16:13

Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 16:13
still a silly thing to do
AnswerID: 622244

Reply By: qldcamper - Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 16:51

Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 16:51
What ever happened to a basic bit of survival that i was taught well before any electronic gizmos existed when i was growing up in Broken Hill.
If your vehicle broke down in those days it could be weeks before someone wandered down some of the remote tracks out there.
Start a fire, stick a knife through the sidewall of your spare and put it on the fire. A thick plume of black smoke would be investigated as apposed to white/ grey smoke from a naturally started fire.
Never had to use it but always make sure i have atleast one spare accessable if the rear bogs down even though i now carry a satphone even in town.
AnswerID: 622246

Follow Up By: Candace S. - Friday, Nov 30, 2018 at 13:27

Friday, Nov 30, 2018 at 13:27
In my part of the world, I've many times heard/read the advice to burn tires (aka tyres) as a way to get attention if you're stranded in a remote area. I can think of instances when people would have been saved or rescued sooner if someone in the party had thought of doing it. But I think this is the first time I've seen tyre-burning mentioned on EO.

Obviously, one should have some better ways to raise an alarm (sat phone, HF radio, PLB, a responsible person who knows when you're due in). But a column of black smoke is potentially a great attention-getter if for some reason you can't fall back on the preferable options.
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Reply By: 9900Eagle - Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 18:50

Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 18:50
I won't get into the s...fight but instead of conjecture about what the poor lady did, we start to work out a solution.

Number 1 is education and that may have to be in a forced question and answer test. Yep same as a drivers license.

Number 2 is how they manage small craft usage off the coast with the use of mandatory safety items.

Like it or not this is how boat safety is managed as well so some form of government intervention would be required, as to how that is managed heavens knows, as I am just a pleb. It would be difficult especially when locals are taken into the equation.

So if anyone has some more meaningful solutions then please post them.

AnswerID: 622248

Follow Up By: Greg J1 - Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 19:13

Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 19:13
Hey eagle. You know the ad campaign on tv about people driving through flood water. How does it go ? “ If it’s flooded forget it “.

Maybe something along those lines may help ?

But in all honesty it’s 2018, nearly 2019, just surely in this day and age you would think people would at least google where they are going to get an idea of how remote they are actually going. And maybe learn something from that and be better prepared.

I’m thinking it would be pretty hard to protect people from themselves.

Cheers Greg
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 20:08

Thursday, Nov 22, 2018 at 20:08
You have to carry snow chains in the high country, perhaps there are items that should be mandatory on certain remote roads. Not so much to save people from themselves, but to make life easier for the buggers who are trying to find them.
3
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Reply By: Michael H9 - Friday, Nov 23, 2018 at 13:05

Friday, Nov 23, 2018 at 13:05
My reading of this incident is that she may be accustomed to driving in these areas and was a bit blasaise about safety because nothing had happened in the past. A bit like locals driving Falcon station wagons doing it every day for yonks then suddenly it hits the fan. She may have been short on preparation but she certainly knew what to do when it did hit the fan.
People packing for a remote trip from the city will pack the kitchen sink and every sort of emergency device. Someone doing a 100km trip between communities probably won't. I'm not saying this was the case, just my reading of it.
AnswerID: 622260

Reply By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Nov 24, 2018 at 13:38

Saturday, Nov 24, 2018 at 13:38
.
As a corollary to this subject, I suggest that if you consider that you may drink urine when without needful water that you perhaps research that before you are placed in such predicament.

I also suggest that if you elect to debate that subject then you open a new Thread rather than doing so here.
This water is already muddied !!!!!!

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Greg J1 - Saturday, Nov 24, 2018 at 15:57

Saturday, Nov 24, 2018 at 15:57
Allan. I would be pushing the button on my plb long before it got to that stage.

Cheers Greg.
5
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Reply By: Ron N - Sunday, Nov 25, 2018 at 01:18

Sunday, Nov 25, 2018 at 01:18
The locals in their Commodores, Falcons (and yes, even Barina's), don't carry any spare water, fuel, tyres - or even jacks or wheelbraces!

They just wait until someone comes along, flags them down, and borrow what they need! [;-)

I reckon this gal was operating just like a local!

I also reckon there's probably a lot more to the story than what the ABC has written up.
And a lot of useful additional information was left out.
Who knows, she probably got a bum steer, as regards road directions!
It certainly doesn't appear she had any maps of the area.

And we all know women have no sense of direction! My missus gets lost on freeways, and in suburbia!

Jokes aside, I think it's obvious she wasn't properly prepared for an Outback trip.

In her own words, "She underestimated the danger".
The Police Inspector says, "she wasn't prepared for the harsh environment".

We all know it takes very little to turn a normal situation into a very nasty one.
The stories of people running into trouble in the Outback, making wrong decisions, and dying, are considerable.

She would have survived more comfortably, and for longer, if she simply had more water with her.

People always seem to underestimate the amount of water required to support life, over a period of a couple of weeks.

That should be the bare minimum amount of water carried. I never go anywhere reasonably remote, with less than 20L of potable water.
And when you realise you're in trouble, practising minimal water-useage techniques, is vital.

Carrying a pile of plastic bags to tie over bushes is one simple technique to harvest moisture when you're marooned.
Carrying a mirror to flash at passing aircraft and even vehicles is another useful survival technique.
The best fall-back stunt - a good old smoky fire, lit in a clear area, gets attention fast.
Carry an old buggered tyre on the roof-rack or tray - burning it may perhaps save your life, when your situation turns ugly.

Finally - NOTHING beats telling reliable people your route, and expected ETA - and when to start looking for you.

Staying alive - your Outback Survival Guide

Cheers, Ron.
AnswerID: 622269

Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Sunday, Nov 25, 2018 at 08:35

Sunday, Nov 25, 2018 at 08:35
.
Ron, I agree that there is more to this story than has been revealed.

The 'Gunbarrel' road between Jameson and Blackstone is well travelled and well defined. Any tracks leading off from this section are little more than wheel tracks... no-one could mistake them for the main road. So what the hell was Ms Phillips doing leaving the main drag for a minor track? Had she not done so this incident would not have occurred in the first place and there would be no reason to sing her praises of survival. It seems strange that neither she nor the media have made mention of her deviation that brought this drama about.

There are lessons to be learned from other's misfortunes. I would really like to know why she got into this predicament.

As I said above.... "There is Plan 'A' and there is Plan 'B',
You don't need Plan 'B' if Plan 'A' works.
Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: Alloy c/t - Tuesday, Nov 27, 2018 at 11:06

Tuesday, Nov 27, 2018 at 11:06
Lets get 100% real , so many 'experts' that have of course NEVER EVER made a simple mistake ....lets see ,here we have the 'experts' berating the victim of circumstance that the vehicle in question had road tires fitted ...funny that 99.9% of 4x4 sold in Australia come factory fitted with H/way tires BUT every single advertisement for said vehicle shows the vehicle doing 'amazing' and totally stupid [in the eyes of Explore OZ experts] things on the factory fitted tires .... Who is to blame ?
So many on here 'forget' that mistakes do happen ,so many 'experts' forget that your 'expertise' only came about through original 'failure'.....people such as Tom Kruse learned by the 'doing' , not by the 'expert' after the fact on the internet .
AnswerID: 622296

Follow Up By: Greg J1 - Wednesday, Nov 28, 2018 at 07:42

Wednesday, Nov 28, 2018 at 07:42
So I guess you are referring to me because I mentioned the tyres in the photo of her car.

Excuse me for sharing my opinion.

We will be heading over to west aus again in may next year to travel a few more Len beadell roads. We haveonly got a few more of them to do and then we can tick that off my list. We will be over there 6,8,10 weeks. Who cares how long we are away.

We will be traveling in (in my opinion) a capable vehicle. I can assure you it hasn’t had every accessory known to man bolted to it. It will have a brand new set of capable tyres fitted. Hell, we might even fill the built in water tank.

I feel very comfortable in the bush. Having lived and worked in the Outback (as the townies call it) all year round with the heat and flies, while the tourists all turn up in the middle of winter and think this is how it is all year round.

I won’t be putting up trip reports or blogs so all my city mates can drool about what a legend I am for driving off the bitumen. I won’t be traveling with ten other vehicles because secretly I’m too scared to go out there myself. We have always traveled solo. We just get out there and have a look around and enjoy every moment of it.

Cheers Greg

It beats sitting at home watching car manufacturers ads on tv. But I guess each to their own.

So how many people so here would trust H/T tyres ? How many people on here would trust a vehicle such as that one pictured ?




2
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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Wednesday, Nov 28, 2018 at 09:22

Wednesday, Nov 28, 2018 at 09:22
Just make sure you don't "take a wrong turn" Greg.
Dave.
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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Wednesday, Nov 28, 2018 at 10:34

Wednesday, Nov 28, 2018 at 10:34
Trouble is that we have so many 'experts' .. of which an awful lot have in reality bugger all 'knowledge' of the situation .... its always a matter of 20/20 hindsight ... so Greg you have of course NEVER made a wrong turn , never EVER left your home driveway without 2 PLB/s ,40lts of water , 80kg of 'tools' and spare parts to go 40km down a dirt road ...A true 'outback' warrior ..how is it that people who actually LIVE day by day ,year round , year to year , through drought and flood actually SURVIVE without keyboard EXPERTS telling them 'must have this , must have that ' ....??
1
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Follow Up By: Greg J1 - Wednesday, Nov 28, 2018 at 11:10

Wednesday, Nov 28, 2018 at 11:10
I’m sorry but I’m not sure I understand what you are on about.

I ve worked and lived in the bush most of my life.

Yeah I guess I’ve taken a wrong turn going to a job somewhere. And yeah seen my share of drought and floods. I know what it’s like when your income starts drying up because graziers don’t spend money in a drought.

I have a plb attached to the transfer lever in all our utes. Have a sat phone in every ute. You don’t need to be remote to need a sat phone !!

My vehicles certainly don’t look like a Arb promo vehicle. But yes they reliable and get me home and back.

So I guess I have survived living in the “outback”. I’ve raised a lovely little family out here by the sweat of my back.

So I’m just a key board warrior to you because I commented on the unsuitable tyres in that picture. Well so be it. Your untitled to your opinion as am I.

The next time I take a wrong turn and have to drink my own urine to survive I’ll be sure to look you up for your advice. Until then I’ll take your comments with same amount of comtempt as they deserve.

Cheers Greg
3
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Follow Up By: Greg J1 - Wednesday, Nov 28, 2018 at 19:05

Wednesday, Nov 28, 2018 at 19:05
Been stewing on this all day.

Seening as how you referred to people living day to day year to year in the bush.

I remember taking my new born son home from hospital in an old clapped out 40 series petrol troopy 140 kms north west of Mt Isa. No air con. It was 46 degrees on the veranda when we got home. We survived.

I remember taking an aboriginal employee 180 ks to the Aramac hospital with blankets wrapped around us to try to stop the shivering because he sliced his hand open on a piece of steel 5 minutes after we started work in the middle of winter. 60 of those kms were on the station with 9 gates to open and close. In the same old troopy. We survived.

I’ve probably been in more pub fights in the Isa than you’ve had nappy changes and I survived

All this before plb’s and sat phones.

You may be better educated than me. Wouldn’t be hard. I’ve learnt all I know from the school of hard knocks but you know what ? I believe it has made me a better person. .

I’m thinking if anyone needs to get off his high horse on this subject it’s you.

Ok so most 4wds come with ht tyres fitted. That’s ok for city slickers whoMOST 4wds are sold to and NEVER see the bush. And people who know what they are doing don’t go bush with such crap tyres as that. Watch all the ads you want fella.

Moderators please feel free to cancel my account because I have taken total offence to this southern piss ant.

Cheers Greg










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Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Wednesday, Nov 28, 2018 at 20:00

Wednesday, Nov 28, 2018 at 20:00
Greg,
How did you go with Russel Peters, Joey Roberts or Vern Daisy.
0
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Follow Up By: Greg J1 - Wednesday, Nov 28, 2018 at 20:09

Wednesday, Nov 28, 2018 at 20:09
I don’t know those fellas eagle but that Tim Thomson and I had a few blues. 1 tough bugger.
0
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Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Wednesday, Nov 28, 2018 at 20:55

Wednesday, Nov 28, 2018 at 20:55
Greg, they were very, very hard men from the Isa. You would never pick Russel as he was a very had bastard, he was about 5'10 and not a mark on him. Joey had calluses on his knuckles and Vern, well Vern was Vern. I last sat down and had a beer with Vern about 7 years ago and hell he was still very fit.

Vern Daisy Link

Russel worked as a people removal person at the Isa Hotel and he could do it as a gentleman or help others on their way with a few chosen signs.

Joey was just Joey.

Bugger, I forgot Pud, Rod Seymore who decided to throw the copper over his car at the Duchess Rodeo. Missus said do anything like that again and I'm not here anymore. Pud stopped his punching days and has never hit anyone since. Hell he had some horsepower.

Greg, don't get offened by others and keep contributing what you believe. Pity about my 2 front broken teeth, gotta get them fixed before I kick the bucket.
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Follow Up By: Greg J1 - Wednesday, Nov 28, 2018 at 21:00

Wednesday, Nov 28, 2018 at 21:00
Haha eagle. I have 2 false front teeth as well. Thanks for your support

Cheers Greg
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Follow Up By: Michael H9 - Wednesday, Nov 28, 2018 at 21:12

Wednesday, Nov 28, 2018 at 21:12
The biggest trick of handling internet forums is to not get sucked in. You have to roll and chill, anything else is totally frustrating and fruitless. The truth never matters because it is the internet. :-)
0
FollowupID: 895156

Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Thursday, Nov 29, 2018 at 01:00

Thursday, Nov 29, 2018 at 01:00
.
Ya got two missing front teeth?...... Ha, I have a bridge replacing three!
Tripped while running away. LOL
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Thursday, Nov 29, 2018 at 08:30

Thursday, Nov 29, 2018 at 08:30
You can 'stew' all you like , and continue with your assumptions and 'expertise' , all it shows is your actual ignorance , where I sit Mt Isa is the big smoke , and to get to Aramac its still a 'all dirt' 350km round trip ...
0
FollowupID: 895163

Follow Up By: Candace S. - Friday, Nov 30, 2018 at 15:43

Friday, Nov 30, 2018 at 15:43
"So how many people so here would trust H/T tyres ?"

I can't quite read the tyres in the ABC article pic...are they Bridgestone Dueler H/T's?

That's what was installed on the new Toyota 4WD I bought about two weeks ago. Within 24 hours, I had replaced them with BFG All-Terrain TA's. :)

BTW, during my last visit to Oz, the hire company "upgraded" my 4WD hire vehicle by having a set of Bridgestone Duelers installed, replacing a set of Continental tyres. :)
0
FollowupID: 895202

Follow Up By: garrycol - Friday, Nov 30, 2018 at 16:41

Friday, Nov 30, 2018 at 16:41
Most people and a few here think that Highway Terrain (H/T) are highway tyres and they are not - they are offroad tyres like ATs except the tread is more highway biased - they may not be built as well as full on A/T or M/T light truck tyres but they are still offroad tyres.

There is a difference between highway tyres and Highway Terrain (H/T) tyres.

0
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