Tow vehicle ramblings comments welcome

Thanks for the reply eagle.
The Ranger was only 18 months old and had done 20,000 Kim’s. with the 3.2 motor. It’s gone now and I must decide on a new and better vehicle.

Your not wrong Eagle about the weights I just checked the difference between our previous 1986 16' 6" pop top compared to current model which is 600kg heavier.

Depends if you really like old school what about a chev V8 turbo diesel they have different levels of power up grades available to suit with good torque figures should be much better on fuel than a petrol so you get better range. Find a cruiser or similar that has the towing capacity you need.

Hi Batts
Yes I did look at a Chev Silverado.
Something like I am thinking about

"We now cart our whole house around the country with new vans."

For many people these days a caravan is their home...

Cheers, Baz - The Landy

Thanks nick
I didn’t know the patrols had a model with a 5.6 l V8.
Sounds like a great tow machine

Thanks biggish
I agree with your comments.
Diesels of today are certainly not the same as the long lasting, trouble free motors of the past.
I am looking at a new vehicle. Have only looked at Silverado so far, not a lot near me to see in the flesh so that is why I seek comments here.

Working with a bloke at the moment that has a Silverado. He had a 79 series Landcruiser for towing his 'van but it wasn't good enough in some aspects, apparently? Forked out $140K including canopy etc and he's a happy man. Some blokes are spending up to that amount, or more, on dual cab LC's with remaps, rear axle conversions, canopies and even auto g'boxes.

Did read somewhere, probably on Facebook, some wag suggested with Silverado, you have this beautiful engine & transmission, with a bit of work, the rest of the vehicle falls to pieces.

F-250's are still available, converted from LHD, from a dealership in Melbourne. Don't recall the business.

Or you could buy a low km GU Nissan, rip out the 3L & fit a Chev V8 diesel. One EO member in WA did this some years back. Just a bit noisy, he said.

Bob

Hi Bob y
Thank you for you reply, interesting about the Silverado not standing up to the job.
I was thinking it , F series truck or Dodge Ram as possible options.

Apparently, Cruiser, I've been giving you a bum steer about my work colleague's ute. It is, in fact, a Dodge Ram dual cab.

Asked him this morning about his previous ute, a s/cab 79 series. He said it gave 21L/100, whether he drove it at 85 or 105 clicks. It struggled on hills towing the 'van, occasionally grabbing 2nd to get over the rise. The Ram though, towing the same 'van, has been down to 17L/100, but usually sits about 18 mark. He also said the tub, with canopy, "is not me!" Mainly for lack of access in such a large tub.

Bob

Hi Bob
Thank you very much for finding out all the details about your workmates experience.
That info is very helpful.
Going for a test drive in one

While Europe may be starting to move away from diesel, here in Aust diesel will be king for a long time - mainly for the reasons of better fuel consumption, better torque, and overall outback fuel availability (when apples are compared with apples) - yes in specific circumstances things may be different but overall diesel in Aust will be around for a long time and I doubt interstate trucks will be changing to petrol in the near future.

With its big V8 I am sure the patrol can physically tow very well but like all petrol vehicles its fuel consumption will high in high load scenarios like towing a big van.

As far as the American V8 diesel utes are concerned they are a mighty tow vehicle vehicle with big power and torque and high tow capacities. However you need to be aware the vehicle themselves have a relatively load capacity - in the case of the Silverado it is only about 950kg - about the same as a dual cab Hilux.

Now that doesn't sound too bad but if you have the vehicle to tow a big heavy van loaded to the hilt, your tow ball weight may be up around 300kg or higher so you are then down to 650kg load capacity, a tubby Ma and Pa passenger and driver - say 200kg all up, so down to 450kg load capacity.

Your touring around so maybe a long range tank - say 180litres will conservatively be 200kg so down to 250kg load capacity. Bull bar and winch - say a 100kg (conservative) and you are down to 150kg. What about a canopy to cover the ute back? 100kg?

Now you can argue the weights - for sure your own circumstance maybe different but my point is that while these big utes may have a 5+ tonne tow capacity the vehicle load capacity is not superior and may not be much more than smaller Jap dual cabs - so take this aspect into account when considering these vehicles using you own needs.

Thanks Garry
I appreciate your input and yes I understand exactly what you mean, And this seems to apply to all vehicles.
I never tow to the manufacturers max rating So will will easily stay within the limits.

The big American 4WD's are the biggest rip-off in Australia.
They sell for $50-$60K in the U.S. and they double and sometimes even nearly triple in price, by the time they're on the road here.

The problem is, they're slapped together by low paid workers, as with most U.S. built vehicles.
These are the people they have to keep repeating "righty-tighty", "lefty-loosey" to, just to ensure they can remember which way nuts and bolts have to be turned.
Fortunately, in the factories, they have most automated tools already set up, to turn the right way, so they don't have to think about it.

The greatest single problem with the big U.S.-built utes, is that they are designed specifically for LHD.
Unlike those vehicles such as all Jap vehicles, which are specifically designed for RHD or LHD.

As a result, you pay a fortune to convert a vehicle from LHD to RHD and endure all the remnant LHD features - such as wipers that wipe the wrong part of the windscreen, controls arse-about on the steering column - and more importantly, steering and suspension and brake conversions which are rarely stellar in their redesign.

It's not just the re-engineering required on steering and controls, to go from LHD to RHD that is important - "proper" RHD's have a different firewall, and are engineered for RHD - which includes steering alignment set up for RHD.

I have several mates who have regularly been to steering specialists, trying to re-align their front ends, to stop their big Yank utes from wandering all over the road, or pulling one way or another, due to road camber.

I had a mate who bought a new Dodge Ram, and the panhard rod (or track bar) on the front axle had to be relocated, to allow for the repositioning of the steering box.
This entailed fabricating new panhard rod mountings - and these ended up breaking off, and giving him great grief.
In addition, the brakes on the Ram were pretty pathetic for the size of the vehicle. It took a lot longer to stop than the average Tojo.

Then there's the load capacity as mentioned by garrycol. You just have to wonder why such huge vehicles have such a piddly load rating. It certainly reflects their build quality and strength.
You want a towbar or bullbar for these things, you pay dearly to have one engineered for it, because they are not a common product.

And of course, if you want any parts, you're up against the "difficult to procure and expensive" parts scenario.
I bought a new 4WD F100 (which was supposedly "Australian built") and I can remember paying $600 just for a grille - in 1980!
I spent thousands trying to get the F100 to steer straight. No power steering was offered with it, and I ended up having to fit aftermarket power steering - at great cost to myself.

My nephew bought a new diesel Silverado around 2010 - and he promptly got rid of it, it was nothing but constant strife, always in the dealers getting some kind of repair - at great cost to him.
So many of the problems with it were infuriating niggly, electrical problems.

Getting stuck in "limp-home" mode, with a 50kmh speed limitation, between Kununurra and Broome, was the last straw for him - let alone trying to find anyone with intimate knowledge of the vehicle, to be able to service it.

He currently has a Ford F150 SVT Raptor, which he does seem to be fairly happy with - he reckons it's the best handling and most driveable of all the "Yank tanks" he's owned - but to me, it's still an overpriced Ford.

The St John Ambulance in W.A. disposed of all their F-series ambulances some years ago, after having run with the F-series for years and years.
The thing that killed the F-series with St John was the sheer cost of running and maintaining the F-250 Powerstroke diesels.
Parts prices would make your eyes water - $1400 for injectors (each) was a figure I was quoted by one of the SJ mechanics.

The bottom line is, if you want to haul 3 tonnes, get a Japanese truck, they're designed to handle it, year in, year out.

The alternative is purchase a motorhome, and tow your car behind it. You can buy a good motorhome based on a Jap diesel truck, for not much more than a new "Yank tank" 4WD ute.

Cheers, Ron.

Hi Ron
Umm I take it you don’t like American built.
Thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed reply.
As far as the Rams and chevs being much cheaper in the US I thing it would be fair to say that applies to all vehicles in America Toyota included.
Your comment about the US vehicles being assembled by low paid workers is a bit cruel and is often used to demean Asian workers. So who should we trust to build a car or truck.
I think the right hand drive converters do a far better job than you give them credit for.
I have only now finished inspecting and driving a Ram. You could not pick that it was once left hand drive. Beautifully done by Australian Special Vehicles. Exceptional to drive, brakes were very good and great steering contrary to how you described them. No doubt there is merit in what you have experienced much the same as those who love the Ranger and others who bagg them endlessly.
What Japanese truck do you suggest? I have read about the 5.6 litre patrol but don’t want a wagon. Of course the dual cab utes are not made in Japan and am stepping up from a Ranger which is why I am looking at the US trucks.
I am not looking for a motorhome.
I really do think that my only option is a Chev Silverado or Dodge Ram.

I can answer the piddly load capacity bit easily. A HD2500 has a kerb weight of just over 3500 kg and truck rego and licensing kicks in ay 4495 kg. It has nothing to do with anything apart from paperwork and maths. Get a 3500, put it on truck rego, drive it on a LR/MR license and blow OO all the time and you can have the best of both worlds.
For the record I also would do LOTS of research on anything Chrysler is bringing to the market. They consistently own the bottom five spots of any given JD Power ownership satisfaction survey.

Cruiser 3 - I just personally believe that the American-built stuff is over-rated, over-priced, and unsuitable for Australian conditions.
I do know that some of the LHD conversion specialists are very good at what they do - but it costs, big-time.

There's a "Wow!", awe-inspring factor in these utes that makes most people genuflect as soon as you roll up in one.
I've had the same response with a old Jaguar - but old Jaguars were (and still are) nothing but a pile of expensive trouble.

You have to remember these utes are built for the American market, and American conditions, that are vastly different to Australian conditions.
In America, if your Ram/Silverado/F-series packs it in, it's 5 mins to the nearest big dealer who has immediate access to the factory engineers that built them - often, just down the road. We don't have that kind of backup.

The auto workers are low-paid employees. American auto worker earn around $16-20 hr.
But substantial number of components and parts in your big "American" pickup, are made in places such as Mexico and China - where the wages rates are as low as a couple of dollars an hour, and the workers are lacking in mechanical skills.
The content figures have shocked many Americans even, with up to 30% of the "home-grown" pickups containing imported parts.

As far as the Japanese trucks go, Isuzu and Hino are leaders in the light to medium truck field, Mitsubishi has sold their Fuso truck line to Daimler and it's not as good as it used to be, UD has a good reputation, and Nissan has a reasonable product backed by poor customer service and poor parts supply.

The Ram is still a Chrysler product, and known for assembly faults, varying build quality, and poor bodywork.
The Silverado build quality problems are well known (search for "Silverado problems), and the Ford F-series comes out as the best of the three at present, if you seek reasonable reliability.
However, Ford have now dropped the V8 petrol engine from the F-series Raptor lineup, and you now get a highly tuned twin-turbo V6 instead.
With all three of the above, be prepared to be "shafted" on parts pricing and servicing - Ford in particular.

Cheers, Ron.

I think some of your generalizations are way off the mark...Would have been better if you put this in the Friday Funnies section.

Some of Ron's comments may have been relevant in the past but I dont believe so now as these "trucks" in RHD are now being sold through Australia dealers (Holden, Ford, Chrysler) and where conversion to RHD is being done here it is part of the manufacturer's local systems.

Eg GM products such as the Silverado are being converted by HSV which of course is very part of the Australian GM Holden organisation. So In dont think we have to worry too much about the quality of conversions for Aust conditions.

The interesting part about the Dodge Ram, is Fiat-Chrysler sold 398 Rams in Australia, in total, for the whole of 2017.

But they have only managed to sell 80 Rams for the first 5 months of 2018 (official figures).

However, the head honchos at Fiat-Chrysler claim they are looking at total sales of 2100 Rams for the whole of 2019.

With the current slump in the car market (down about 10% overall, and I've even seen Toyota offering 3 day special deals), all I can say to the Fiat Chrysler salespeople, is - "in your dreams, mateys! - in your dreams!"

You just have to wonder why the Ram sales have taken such a kick in the guts so far this year.

Surely it can't be because all the Ram buyers are holding back for the 2019 model?? (waiting for the bugs to be sorted? LOL)

Cars.com - Ram recalls

Cheers, Ron.

There was a RAM next to me at the lights yesterday, it did look very nice. The only thing to keep in mind is that Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep are pretty low down on the reliability and customer service rating. Probably better in the States because there are more of them with a larger dealer and parts network, but pretty thin on the ground here. It makes it a hard decision.

It is a pity that the big Rams have reliability problems and rate pretty low. Especially as they have a great cummins engine and borg warner transfer case. Mopar were always good at making very tough auto transmissions, this may have changed though and would be worth checking out.

Shane , Michael and Eagle
The Ram at the moment seems pretty high on my list but as you say Chrysler/ Jeep don’t seem very popular reliability wise. Although you do see a lot of Jeeps towing caravans now.
The search continues.

If the bigger utes interest you have a look at the Toyota Tundra. No idea what they are like but I had a look at one at a 4x4 show and they are mighty impressive, I’m 6’6” and fit in the back seat nicely...

Hi Nick
Googled the Toyota Tundra. Hard to find much info on them but they do have a large petrol V8 which maybe is a good thing. I just feel that diesels are being strangled by all the emission controls and loosing reliability with common rail etc.

Japanese common rails can be a problem. European and Korean not so much. The European's had at least a ten year start on the Japs plus a huge local market to get the bugs out. I bought my Euro diesel in 2008 when all the Jap stuff was pretty outdated, low power, bad fuel economy, etc. I had friends in Europe who wouldn'touch a Jap diesel because they thought they were tractor engines. The Japs have caught up as far as power and economy is concerned but at a reliability cost. I still wouldn't touch a Jap diesel. Petrol electric hybrid will get them back on track, they are in the zone there in my opinion.

Hi Michael h9
Diesels are popular with people who may have other diesel powered equipment such as farmers with their own tanks for filling tractors etc. but for the average motorist is there any real benefit having diesel over pertrol. Diesel vehicles are dearer to purchase than equivalent petrol models. Diesels may no longer have the longevity that they were once famous for.
Diesel fumes apparently can cause cancer.
So your comments about petrol / electric seem very valid.

I bought a new Nissan Y62 Patrol just a few months ago ,there are only 2 models now , the Ti that's the one I bought and the TiL , only one motor a 5.6lt V8 Petrol , both have a 7 speed auto .

They are very good value for money , compared to a 200 series .
I would encourage you to at least have a look at one , take one for a spin , they have plenty of power , very quite and comfortable , if you find the right Dealer and bargain hard you should be able to drive away in a Ti for a fair bit under $70k , about $10k more for a TiL

I stepped out of a Dmax into the Patrol .

Hi Jackolux
Wow I wasn’t aware that the patrols now have a 5.6 l petrol motor.
That sounds just the thing. Congratulations on your purchase.
That the patrols are only coming out with the petrol motor tells me that Nissan are forward thinking and seeing the demise of diesel power.
I will seriously look at the Patrol, love the idea of the big motor.

Do some solid maths on the Patrol with regards towing and GVM. They have reductions for high ball weights etc and appear to be tare weighted rather than kerb weighted so you'll need to allow for a tank of fuel as well. They look like a great thing though. You are right about the ranger feeling like they have nothing in reserve - they hit max torque and that's it - they do their own thing. Not necessarily a bad thing but pointless trying to kick them. Typical diesel engine and the Rangers actually dial back the power over 3000 rpm so even more reason to be patient with them or get something different. I like mine but I'm comparing it with utes I used to have rather than much classier tow vehicles.

Hi Gbc
I liked my Ranger and it’s most probably the best of the dual cab utes. Its just that I would like a little bit more, maybe I am expecting too much.
The Nissan Patrol certainly has the motor for the job but I need a vehicle with a tub or tray so I can use it for work as well as tow with it.
I’m in the bush so not able to stroll through the car yards as you could in the city.
I have seen though the Silverado and the Ram and I seem to be favouring the Ram at the moment. I have arranged to take one for a test as I have found a dealer close by (200 kilometres from me but I consider that close)

Hi Nomadic Navara
Your detailed reply hits the nail right on the head, particularly about 1st and 3nd gears being too high.
I certainly wasn’t bagging the Triton simply highlighting the shortcoming when towing. Brought the Triton as a cheap runaround while still having a Landcruiser, tried it on one trip to see how it went towing, got rid of it at 1 year old. It was Nissan though who selected the wrong box for the vehicle not I. Then I brought the Ranger in auto, at least it had 5 cylinders not 4 like most others. But I am now looking for something bigger.
I agree that an auto box is the way to go now days.

Hang on , you can't just take off and not tell us what you bought .

If it's the Dodge you might be stuck out there for a very long time. :-)

“Wide and varied views” Is spot on
And all makes have lemon even the mighty 200 series Toyota , heard of at least one dud , so I’m sure there’s more.
Hope whatever you’ve gone with gives you good service!

Just watch out for these things, Cruiser!



Bob

Kerry,

Your memories of your family's Belair has revived a few memories of a Belair for me too, though a little OT.

In '64-65, I worked on a station that adjoins the famous Brunette Downs, then owned by King Ranch. At the time, the manager's mode of transport was a Chev Belair, in a very similar blue duco to the one in the sample photo I've attached. During the annual Brunette Races, this car was often seen, no doubt ferrying guests & hangers-on, from the station to the race course, and return. There was also a Jeep shooting brake on the station, complete with rifle scabbards, that was used to impress the southern visitors.



On one occasion, in '65, our stock camp had met up with one of the Brunette stock camps, south of Bloodwood Bore, to assist them in drafting out a fair mob of our cattle. During this process, what should rock up but the Belair, driven by the then manager, Charlie Weiss. I was quite impressed that the Chev could manage some of the tracks out on the run.

Bob

Ah Bob!

You have created some stirrings of memories for me with your post.

I too have fond memories of a Belair and a different kind of Brunette. They had a lovely big and roomy back seat....

From memory it was '68 auto with buttons on the dash to select the gears (could of been called Ultra Glide or something similar) - a very smooth ride indeed.

Cheers

Anthony

Great cars, the Chevy's of the 60's. They were the wealthy squatters cars, particularly the big wool producers who were my major clients in the '60's - and who were literally "rolling in it".

It wasn't unusual to do a job for these blokes, and they would pull out the chequebook when we finished, and they would write us a cheque for 10,000 or 15,000 POUNDS ($20,000 to $30,000), without a care.

That was in the days when a new EH Holden cost 1100 pounds ($2,200) - and these blokes would pull out the chequebook and write out a cheque for the full purchase price for the new Chevy, too!

One farmer client went right overboard (he'd be described as a really irresponsible hoon today).
This bloke had a stunning-looking wife - and he went and bought a new 1958 Plymouth Belvedere Fury 4 door pillarless - complete with the 350 cu in Golden Commando V8, producing 305HP - to match the wife, I guess!

I can remember him giving me a ride home in this beast, it was like a ride in a rocketship to a drooling 16 yr old - and this bloke just loved flooring it, and fishtailing her up the local dirt roads, so we could feel what real American V8 power was!

Sad to say, this bloke died of a heart attack at age 57, thus proving that fast cars and fast women will shorten your life!
Or, he had a "fast life, but a good one!" LOL

Plymouth Belvedere

Cheers, Ron.

Bob Y it is interesting that the old Chevvys were such good Bush cars despite their weight. Because they were so popular with American farmers the General made LSDs standard in all the Belairs and Impalas so they could more reliably negotiate muddy farm tracks. It made them more marketable to a wider section of the motoring public. I found this out because as a school kid I did a project on the importation of the Chevrolet into Australia by GMH in the 60s. They were so impressed with my request I received a detailed letter and a history of the cars and why they brought them into Australia from GM. So many good stories from those 60s and 70s it’s a shame we forget so much until somebody sparks our memories.