Surveyor Generals Corner

Submitted: Sunday, Feb 17, 2019 at 10:50

ThreadID: 137824 Views:12608 Replies:7 FollowUps:25

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Surveyor Generals Corner

The intersection of the Northern Territory and the states of South Australia and Western Australia is known as the Surveyor General's Corner.

Siringo

Planning a trip for later this year, Coober Pedy - Anne Beadell Hwy. Up to Surveyor Generals Corner and back to Coober Pedy, via another route.

Just finding out about access and permits.

Lots of questions.

Coober Pedy to Laverton. I have a desert parks pass. I'll also need access to get through the maralinga area from the Dept of Defense I think it is? Do I need any permits to travel through the spinifex country?

From Warburton we'll head to Jameson and travel on the Warburton Jameson road and then onto, what the Exploroz map calls the Gunbarrel Hwy. At some point near Wingelina there's a turn north to SG corner.

Is access available at this point and does anyone know what permits are req'd?

Also, I've read that I can only access SG corner with a guide and by paying a fee, but I've not been able to find any recent info on who you contact to arrange that, so if anyone has any info they'd like to share that'd be great.

Random question. I'm looking at the Exploroz map online and it shows that the Mulga Park road intersects with the Lasseter Hwy. Is access available to take the Mulga Park road down to Stuart Hwy?

Thanks for any help.

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Reply By: Rob A2 - Sunday, Feb 17, 2019 at 14:43

Sunday, Feb 17, 2019 at 14:43

Planning to visit the corner in August. This is the link I found

https://tjukayirlaroadhouse.com.au/Permit_Pack.pdf

Rob

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Follow Up By: Siringo - Sunday, Feb 17, 2019 at 14:57

Sunday, Feb 17, 2019 at 14:57

Brilliant, thanks RobA2.

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Reply By: Siringo - Sunday, Feb 17, 2019 at 16:06

Sunday, Feb 17, 2019 at 16:06

This looks very useful:
https://www.australiasgoldenoutback.com/sites/go/files/2018-04/do-i-need-a-permit-booklet.pdf

and this looks like the link we need:

https://www.ngaanyatjarra.org.au/sites/default/files/report/complete_permit_pack_2016.pdf

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Reply By: Member - McLaren3030 - Monday, Feb 18, 2019 at 09:46

Monday, Feb 18, 2019 at 09:46

Hi Siringo, the Mulga Park Road intersects with the Stuart Highway about 200 metres north of the N.T. Border. It runs through Victory Downs and follows the N.T./S.A. Border and turns north passing Mount Connor & connecting to the Lasseter Highway just east of Curtin Springs. If heading from Uluru towards Erldunda, the turn off is on the right a few kms passed Curtin Springs. We have used this road a few times, it is in general a good gravel road, with a few corrugations. Be aware that there are a couple of intersecting roads that the locals do not always stop or give way at. Last time we were on this road, a friend who was travelling with us collided with a local who just came straight out in front of them. Fortunately there was very little damage to their vehicle, and they had been filming at the time, so had the evidence that the the other vehicle did not give way.

With regard to your questions about permits for SG corner. We went there in 2017, had all the permits as others have advised. We had tried to make contact with the traditional owners of the land around SG corner as per the guidelines laid out by the traditional owners, in order to book a guide, but to no avail. The phone just rang out. On speaking with the information people at both Laverton & Warburton, they said as long as you respect the grave site of Eddie (the original land owner), you will be fine. Since Eddie passed away, his family do not seem to be interested in supplying a guide. Also, in case you are not aware, there are actually two corner posts, as the border intersection is a “dogleg”. The first one is well marked and has a plaque. The second one is about 200 mts further along the track around a bend. When we were there, it did not have a plaque on it.

Macca.

SG Corner marked post.

SG Corner unmarked post.

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Follow Up By: Siringo - Monday, Feb 18, 2019 at 10:04

Monday, Feb 18, 2019 at 10:04

Great info, thanks for helping out Macca.

I'm planning to do it solo at the moment, is it very remote? By that I mean, what are the chances of anyone coming along? A person in a few days, few weeks, months??

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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Monday, Feb 18, 2019 at 10:17

Monday, Feb 18, 2019 at 10:17

Great info on 2nd corner, how many might not tweak to that, even with it on their mapping !! :)
You'd be kicking yourself if you missed that 2nd point to tick off.

Looking at previous posts, it seems calling is not the correct protocol, most of those communities are very lax about phones and returning calls almost non existent.
You are supposed to have one vehicle go into the community, to the obvious town office, and go through that protocol of paying and having a guide assigned.

It's a big cost looking at previous links, gouging in a big way, bet no $ get spent of those tracks or other shelters, tables or other maintenance.

I have read of others just going to SGC without permits, boils down to personal outlook on this and risk of severe embarrassment if 'caught out'.

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Follow Up By: Siringo - Monday, Feb 18, 2019 at 10:22

Monday, Feb 18, 2019 at 10:22

I don't have a problem with paying for things like that, but I am concerned that the fee may go up because when you get Fred he asks for $200, Mary asks for $150 and Bob just let's you go there for nothing.

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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Monday, Feb 18, 2019 at 10:40

Monday, Feb 18, 2019 at 10:40

We actually did the “right thing” and drove into the community as asked, but could not find any place open to ask about a guide. As stated earlier, according to the information people at both Laverton & Warburton, the locals do not seem to be interested in supplying a guide anymore.

As far as other vehicles are concerned, after leaving Warburton we only saw one other vehicle on this road.

Macca.

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Follow Up By: Siringo - Tuesday, Feb 19, 2019 at 14:23

Tuesday, Feb 19, 2019 at 14:23

Is there a track that can be followed to the corner or do you have to navigate to it?

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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Tuesday, Feb 19, 2019 at 15:14

Tuesday, Feb 19, 2019 at 15:14

Hi Siringo, the track off the road to the corner is not well marked, but basically it is opposite the track into the community. The maps supplied by the land council when you apply for your travel permits has all this shown. Once on this track, it only goes to the corner. It leads to an old campground approx 2 or 3 kms in that is no longer used. There you will find Eddie’s grave, please be respectful of this site. The track to the corner then continues off to the right.

Macca.

Eddies Grave

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Follow Up By: Siringo - Tuesday, Feb 19, 2019 at 15:28

Tuesday, Feb 19, 2019 at 15:28

Thanks once again Macca, appreciate it.

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Follow Up By: oneofthedamons - Saturday, Feb 23, 2019 at 13:10

Saturday, Feb 23, 2019 at 13:10

I live and work in Wingellina, but note I can't and don't speak for the Traditional Custodians.

I'd suggest doing the right thing and calling into the Wingellina Community Office to ask. This is freehold Ngaanyatjarra country; ask permission to visit their backyard like you would expect someone to ask your permission to visit yours. And as others have noted, if you're discovered without a permit the penalties are severe and you might be asked to leave Ngaanyatjarra Lands altogether, which would be a bad way to end your holiday.

The office is open daily from 9.30 am to 11.30 am, and 2.00 pm to 4.00 pm, Central Standard Time (despite Wingellina being in WA, we're on NT time with no daylight savings). The store has the same hours EXCEPT it is closed on Wednesday afternoons (and open Saturday mornings).

As some have noted, landlines can be hit-and-miss; we're chronically understaffed out here so that's just the way it is.

The "corner" is a great spot to visit, so I don't mean to discourage you — just suggest doing it the right way.

Tune into 107.7 FM while you're here to listen to some great radio — our transmitter has a range of around 30 km :-)

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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Saturday, Feb 23, 2019 at 13:18

Saturday, Feb 23, 2019 at 13:18

High, oneofthedamons, (now thats a mouthful), that explains why we could not find anyone to ask when we were there in 2017. We went to the store around lunch time and it was closed, and there was no one around to ask.

Macca.

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Follow Up By: oneofthedamons - Saturday, Feb 23, 2019 at 13:24

Saturday, Feb 23, 2019 at 13:24

Yep it catches out the uninitiated — and even those who should know better like me, sometimes (I always seem to be traveling on a Sunday when nothing is open at all, bar the roadhouses on the GCR).

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Follow Up By: Siringo - Monday, Apr 08, 2019 at 17:23

Monday, Apr 08, 2019 at 17:23

With regards to dropping into the Wingellina Community Office to get a guide to go to Surveyor General's Corner, should I ring the office a few days before turning up there?

I can see myself arriving at the Office and wanting to go out to the corner that day & being told there's no one available to take me.

Or is there usually someone available most of the time?

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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Tuesday, Apr 09, 2019 at 11:09

Tuesday, Apr 09, 2019 at 11:09

Siringo, it pays to contact them a couple of days in advance, so that someone can be available to take you in. This is what I was advised by the Land Council & by others.

Macca.

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Follow Up By: Siringo - Tuesday, Apr 09, 2019 at 16:29

Tuesday, Apr 09, 2019 at 16:29

Yep, great. Thanks again Macca.

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Follow Up By: Siringo - Tuesday, Apr 16, 2019 at 16:35

Tuesday, Apr 16, 2019 at 16:35

Is any permission or permits required to travel through the Victory Downs area?

I've googled and looked on several maps & nothing comes up.

Thanks.

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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Tuesday, Apr 16, 2019 at 21:25

Tuesday, Apr 16, 2019 at 21:25

Certainly not for the section between the Stuart Highway & Victory Downs, I am not sure about the next section between Victory Downs & the W.A. Border.

Macca.

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Follow Up By: Siringo - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2019 at 07:04

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2019 at 07:04

Thanks again Macca, I appreciate your help. Only about 8 weeks until we leave now.

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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2019 at 07:38

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2019 at 07:38

What is your intended route? Originally you mentioned The Anne Beadell, are still going that way? I have read the the Woomera Prohibited Zone will have some closures later this year. You will also need permits for this area. Or are you continuing along the Giles Mulga Park road from Victory Downs through to Kafka?

Macca.

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Follow Up By: Siringo - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2019 at 07:52

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2019 at 07:52

Yep, route hasn't really changed.
We were going to go in September, but the DoD have closed the WPA for all of September from memory, so we've brought the trip forward to June/July.

Heading west frpm Coober Pedy via the AB Hwy to Laverton, then north to Warburton and into the SGC via the Warburton - Blackstone Road.

Then from the SGC back out to the GCR via the Giles Mulga Park Rd. Then east heading to Uluru & onwards and ducking down to the SA / NT border via Mulga Park Rd and back to the Stuart Hwy.

From there, depending on time left, we'll either directly home, or home through the Simpson desert.

I'm fairly sure I have all the permits I need. I have applications in with the Woomera DoD people and the WA Govt Dept of Lands & Heritage for all the Ngaatyatjarra lands tracks. I've even got a permit for the road between Uluru and the NT / WA border.

I plan on ringing the Wingellina Community office before I leave and again closer to the time we want to visit the SGC.

Also going to contact the Ilkurlka Roadhouse just to make sure they're going to be around.

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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2019 at 09:57

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2019 at 09:57

OK, If you intend to visit Kata Juta/Uluru, because yoou have a permit to travel between Docker River & Uluru, you do not need to pay the three day entrance fee into Kata Juta/Uluru, just show them your travel permit. We stayed at a spot just off the road on the west side of Kata Juta. Spent two nights there, my wife & I stayed at camp while my son & Brother-in-Law went in & out to visit the sites. We then travelled through to Yulara and spent 2 nights at the caravan park to wash clothes, shower & replenish our water supply.

Bush Camp Great Central Road West of Kata Juta

View from sand ridge towards Kata Juta at Bush Camp

Bush camp from sand ridge.

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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2019 at 12:13

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2019 at 12:13

Siringo, I have had a great interest in Len Beadell’s roads for many years, and I have just purchased a book titled The Beadell Roads from Westprint Outback Maps. It has some great maps & info on the roads you will be travelling on. Their website is:

www.westprint.com.au

Macca

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Follow Up By: Siringo - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2019 at 12:46

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2019 at 12:46

Yep, same here Macca. I 'borrowed' Bush Bashers from my Father. 30 years later, he still hasn't gotten it back & won't now as he's not with us any more.

And yes, I got a copy of that new Westprint book last week, it's a great thing and is a must have for Len Beadell fans I reckon, it has tons of info in it.

On another note, received my permits for WPA and Ngaanyatjarra lands today, less than 24 hours after putting the applications in.

For others that read this thread, I found that applying here - https://www.dplh.wa.gov.au/information-and-services/online-services/entry-permits-for-access-to-aboriginal-lands - is all you need to do to get valid permits to travel in Ngaanyatjarra lands according to the person from the WA Dept of Planning Lands & Heritage.

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Reply By: Siringo - Wednesday, Feb 20, 2019 at 12:40

Wednesday, Feb 20, 2019 at 12:40

Anyone aware of the condition of the Gunbarrell Hwy / Giles Mulga Park Rd from Warakurna to Wingellina?

I read here ( https://www.ngaanyatjarra.org.au/content/permits ) that :
IF YOU WISH TO TRAVEL THE ABANDONED SECTION OF THE GUNBARREL HIGHWAY (Warburton to Warakurna), YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK. You must adhere to the following criteria:

Contact the Ngaanyatjarra Council Aboriginal Corporation to apply for a permit, acknowledging that you are doing this trip "at your own risk" as this section of the Gunbarrel has been closed for some time and the condition of the road is unknown.

But read here ( https://www.campsaustraliawide.com/locals-guide-guest-blogger/ ) that:
To visit Surveyor-General’s Corner, the normal access is from Warakurna on the Great Central Road down to Wingellina (where you pick up an escort/guide) and then out to the Corner. The turn off from the Great Central Road onto the Giles-Mulga Park Road to access Wingellina is 29 k’s east of the Warakurna Roadhouse. Applications for permits are made to the Ngaanyatjarra Land Council – see under Western Australia – SurveyorGeneral’s Corner information.

I suspect they're talking about the same road. One says the condition is unknown, the other says it is the normal route in.

Or have I misunderstood?

Thanks for any help.

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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Wednesday, Feb 20, 2019 at 20:11

Wednesday, Feb 20, 2019 at 20:11

Siringo, If you are coming from the West, we travelled up the GCR to Warburton, then from Warburton on the Blackstone - Warburton Rd which takes you to the SGC turn off. This road was pretty good, just a few corrugations in places. After visiting SGC, we then backtracked a little towards Warburton, and turned north onto the Giles - Mulga Park Rd. which takes you back to the GCR just east (approx 29 kms) from Giles/Warakurna. This road was in pretty good condition in 2017 when we did the trip. In fact it was in better condition than the GCR. If you have a Hema Navigator or Hema maps it is shown on them. You can also download the Hema App to your mobile phone or tablet.

Macca

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Reply By: Siringo - Thursday, Feb 21, 2019 at 09:22

Thursday, Feb 21, 2019 at 09:22

Thanks once again Macca, that is exactly the route I'm hoping to take when I head over. I appreciate your advice.

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Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Thursday, Feb 21, 2019 at 19:59

Thursday, Feb 21, 2019 at 19:59

No problem, have a great trip. The guy at the BP Service station in Laverton was very helpful with regards to directions and info regarding SGC. As were the people at the Information Centre in Laverton, they actually tried to call the community at SGC on our behalf to try and organise a guide, but again the phone just rang out.

Macca.

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Reply By: oneofthedamons - Saturday, Feb 23, 2019 at 13:20

Saturday, Feb 23, 2019 at 13:20

The GCR is badly corrugated in parts between Warburton and Warakurna Roadhouse, and to be honest is probably the most uninteresting road on Ngaanyatjarra Lands.
Both the Warburton-Blackstone ("Ngaanyatjarra Southern") Road and the Giles-Mulga Park Road are far more scenic and actually in better condition — just a bit sandy over some low dunes.
The Shire website is pretty good:
http://www.ngaanyatjarraku.wa.gov.au/index.php/tourist-information
The Ngaanyatjarra Council website is a bit out of date in parts but this map is current:
https://www.ngaanyatjarra.org.au/sites/default/files/ngaanyatjarra_permit_map__effective_30_march_2018_.pdf
Feel free to ask any further questions, and have a great trip!

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Follow Up By: Siringo - Saturday, Feb 23, 2019 at 16:24

Saturday, Feb 23, 2019 at 16:24

Thanks very much for the help oneofthedamons, it's greatly appreciated.

I'll take your advice and do what I can to get approval before going anywhere.

Great advice & help, thanks once more.

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Reply By: Siringo - Thursday, Apr 04, 2019 at 11:13

Thursday, Apr 04, 2019 at 11:13

Quick change of plans after the DoD released their exclusion periods for FY 2019 - 2020 the other day.

Bringing the trip forward from September to start of July.

No access to Anne Beadell Hwy in September.

DoD permit applications sent in, now to amend some other permits I had received earlier in the year.

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Siringo

Reply By: Rob A2 - Sunday, Feb 17, 2019 at 14:43

Follow Up By: Siringo - Sunday, Feb 17, 2019 at 14:57

Reply By: Siringo - Sunday, Feb 17, 2019 at 16:06

Reply By: Member - McLaren3030 - Monday, Feb 18, 2019 at 09:46

SG Corner marked post.

SG Corner unmarked post.

Follow Up By: Siringo - Monday, Feb 18, 2019 at 10:04

Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Monday, Feb 18, 2019 at 10:17

Follow Up By: Siringo - Monday, Feb 18, 2019 at 10:22

Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Monday, Feb 18, 2019 at 10:40

Follow Up By: Siringo - Tuesday, Feb 19, 2019 at 14:23

Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Tuesday, Feb 19, 2019 at 15:14

Eddies Grave

Follow Up By: Siringo - Tuesday, Feb 19, 2019 at 15:28

Follow Up By: oneofthedamons - Saturday, Feb 23, 2019 at 13:10

Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Saturday, Feb 23, 2019 at 13:18

Follow Up By: oneofthedamons - Saturday, Feb 23, 2019 at 13:24

Follow Up By: Siringo - Monday, Apr 08, 2019 at 17:23

Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Tuesday, Apr 09, 2019 at 11:09

Follow Up By: Siringo - Tuesday, Apr 09, 2019 at 16:29

Follow Up By: Siringo - Tuesday, Apr 16, 2019 at 16:35

Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Tuesday, Apr 16, 2019 at 21:25

Follow Up By: Siringo - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2019 at 07:04

Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2019 at 07:38

Follow Up By: Siringo - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2019 at 07:52

Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2019 at 09:57

Bush Camp Great Central Road West of Kata Juta

View from sand ridge towards Kata Juta at Bush Camp

Bush camp from sand ridge.

Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2019 at 12:13

Follow Up By: Siringo - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2019 at 12:46

Reply By: Siringo - Wednesday, Feb 20, 2019 at 12:40

Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Wednesday, Feb 20, 2019 at 20:11

Reply By: Siringo - Thursday, Feb 21, 2019 at 09:22

Follow Up By: Member - McLaren3030 - Thursday, Feb 21, 2019 at 19:59

Reply By: oneofthedamons - Saturday, Feb 23, 2019 at 13:20

Follow Up By: Siringo - Saturday, Feb 23, 2019 at 16:24

Reply By: Siringo - Thursday, Apr 04, 2019 at 11:13

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